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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Tyrone on Saturday 20 May 06 22:53 BST (UK)

Title: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: Tyrone on Saturday 20 May 06 22:53 BST (UK)
I'm trying to find my grandfathers records who served and survived the great war.

All the information I have is....

William Pennington
Born 1893
Lived at following,  1901 census
27 Princess Street
Pemberton
Little Lane
Father...William
Mother.. Jane

Married in 1918 occupation, Soldier
Enlisted in the South Lancs Regt.
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: neil1821 on Saturday 20 May 06 23:12 BST (UK)
Hi Tyrone,

There seem to be 6 possible men in the South Lancs in WW1, going by the medal cards

Go to http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp, click the link for search and enter his name plus South Lancashire. This'll show you the possibles.

Neil
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 20 May 06 23:20 BST (UK)


Snap Neil !!

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0gw/

Annie  :) :) ;)
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 20 May 06 23:26 BST (UK)

If you order one of them Tyrone - you'll probably get all of them - they come 6 to a sheet - then you can follow along and decide which one is yours !!

Annie  :)

Edit - I imagine it would be one of the cards with the larger numbers - do you have any other information at all ? - photographs - family stories etc ??!  :)
If you can find out his battalion - I could probably give you some more information - I have quite a bit for soldiers who died - but you're very lucky .... your William came home !!
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: Tyrone on Sunday 21 May 06 00:20 BST (UK)
Got a wedding photo with him in his best uniform. Though you can just make out the collar badges

John
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: casalguidi on Monday 22 May 06 07:10 BST (UK)
Hi Tyrone

You may be able to eliminate some of those William PENNINGTONs in the medal cards by looking to see if they died http://www.cwgc.org

Casalguidi
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: liverpool annie on Monday 22 May 06 22:13 BST (UK)


Hi Tyrone

Could you post William's picture ? - it may give a few clues !!

Annie  :) :)
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1 Photo
Post by: Tyrone on Monday 22 May 06 22:42 BST (UK)
Here is a Photo.
An you confirm the ww1 regiment
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: liverpool annie on Monday 22 May 06 23:55 BST (UK)


Tyrone !

I'm trying to get another picture of South Lancs so you can compare ........ but I'm having a bit of trouble with it !!  :P :P :P

Carry on without me   :) :)

Annie
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 23 May 06 00:28 BST (UK)



Does this work ?? though the photo isn't the best ..... !!  ::) ::)

http://static.flickr.com/40/80896238_f35c80ce5d_o.jpg

Does it look the same to you ?

Annie  :)
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: manmack on Tuesday 23 May 06 15:43 BST (UK)
tyrone,you can narrow it down to five men in the MICs.pte 44070 w pennington was killed in 1918,his shoulder title looks like regular army,mack
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: manmack on Wednesday 24 May 06 09:38 BST (UK)
tyrone,i cant make out the badge,i can just make out the prince of wales plumes,mack
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: Tyrone on Wednesday 24 May 06 10:37 BST (UK)
would these be the same ???? ??? ???
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: goggy on Wednesday 24 May 06 11:24 BST (UK)
Gawd a mighty Tyrone are those family possession's? Great photo,good jaw on him ay?
I'LL get out of it now,your'e in good hand's!
                 Goggy. ;) ;D
             
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: manmack on Thursday 25 May 06 10:56 BST (UK)
would these be the same ???? ??? ???
thats the ones tyrone,mack
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: liverpool annie on Thursday 25 May 06 19:08 BST (UK)

Hi Tyrone !!

Did you buy those badges ? they look wonderful !!
Here's some background that may help ! but when you find out the battalion - I can give you more  ;) ;)

By the 22nd August 1914 - the British Expeditionary Force of one cavalry and four infantry divisions - the most perfectly trained and equipped force that ever left these shores .. was in position in the Maubeuge area and on the left of the French armies - ready to help in stemming the tide of the German invasion !

The 2nd battalion of The Prince of Wales Volunteers ( South Lancashire ) had the honour to be included in this original force - so while the 2nd battalion was moving overseas - the preparation of the other battalions for whatever duty they might be called upon to undertake was proceeding

The 1st battalion - was helping to guard the North-West Frontier in India
The 3rd (Special Reserve) was on duty as a coast defence and draft finding unit in England
The 4th and 5th (Territorial ) battalions had been embodied and were in training to take their part in the battle line
The 6th 7th 8th 9th 10th and 11th ( Service ) battalions were quickly formed and began training under the direction of serving and retired Regular officers and NCO's - who made sure that the new recruits - who came from all walks of life - were trained in the high traditions of the Regiment before they were called upon to undergo their baptism of fire

Annie  :)

You might like to look through this site ..... and there's history as well as modern information !

http://www.army.mod.uk/qlr/index.htm
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: goggy on Friday 26 May 06 04:06 BST (UK)
I see the 9th is in training there Annie,good one,will 'pursue'when time+energy allow!
Then I will peruse!!
                   Goggy. ;) ;D
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: Tyrone on Saturday 19 April 08 23:29 BST (UK)
Annie
The regiment my Grandfather was in was the 1st Battalion South Lancs during ww1.

Tyrone
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 19 April 08 23:42 BST (UK)
Annie
The regiment my Grandfather was in was the 1st Battalion South Lancs during ww1.

Tyrone

Lordy Tyrone ! ... I forgot about you ... it's been so long !!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Do you have any extra details at all ??

Annie  :)
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: Tyrone on Sunday 20 April 08 13:04 BST (UK)
The family tree research has been on the back burner for a while. With new grandchildren, house renovations, retirement from work and computer upgrades I've been busy.

This what I have...............

William Pennington.... DOB   12/02/1893.... Hindley...Wigan.

I have a copy (poor copy) of a course he attended in 1916. as follows........

7/12/1916
Signals & Dispatch Riders Course

1st Battalion South Lancs Regiment

QUETTA.... India

Lance-Corporal. W Pennington. His regimental  number is partly obscured by a crease in the paper, all I can make out is 2? 9924

I have his married cert as follows.........
21/12/1918
Wigan
Profession.Soldier

Thats all I have

Regards
John
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: liverpool annie on Sunday 20 April 08 18:22 BST (UK)


Well for a start here's what the 1st battalion were doing .........


The first Battalion served with distinction in the Boer War, losing their commanding officer Lt Col MacCarthy O'Leary whilst leading a charge at the Battle of Pieter's Hill - From South Africa, the Battalion shipped to India, replacing the 2nd Battalion, which had being doing its turn overseas since about the mid 1880s. The 1st Battalion remained in India throughout the Great War. Quite a lot of officers, and a number of NCOs and rankers were transferred to other battalions during the war.

1881 Bengal 1884 Aden 1888 England: Portsmouth 1890 Jersey 1892 Ireland: Birr 1895 Fermoy 1898 England - 1899.12 South Africa 11 Bde 1903 India: Jubbulpore 1906 Raniket 1909 Subathu 1912 Ambala 1914 Quetta 1914.08 Quetta 1919 Afghanistan

The outbreak of war in 1914 - found the 1st Battalion - the old 40th Foot - stationed at Quetta, India, due for relief by the 2nd Battalion in 1916. Officers and the men were keen to head for the Western Front to join their sister battalion in action against the Germans. In May 1919, the ill-advised Afghan government of King Amanullah declared war and attempted to invade British India. 1st Battalion South Lancashire Regiment (the old 40th) were at that time a resident battalion in India, where their principal task had been to maintain watch on the North West Frontier with Afghanistan.
Based at Quetta since 1914, their tour had not been without incident, for in 1918 they had fought a short campaign against the Marri tribe of Baluchistan, marching for some six hundred miles before defeating them in pitched battle. This was a typical mountain warfare operation, characterised by careful picquetting of the line of march by day (physically demanding, thirsty and potentially dangerous work) and watchful perimeter defence by night. On the outbreak of the 3rd Afghan War, the South Lancashires were moved up to garrison Jamrud, the important fort guarding the exit from the Khyber Pass. Later the Battalion took part in operations against Pathan bands in the Kajuri Plain and the Bazar Valley. Then on the 15th July it was ordered forward to occupy Ali Masjid, key to the Khyber. There the South Lancashires stayed until the end of October, during which time they took part in several operations against dissident tribesmen, the most important of which was the destruction of the Afridi stronghold of Chora. On completion of this mission, the Battalion had the task of acting as rearguard to the column on its withdrawal, always one of the most difficult phases of mountain warfare, but the South Lancashires were thoroughly versed in the tactics of this form of warfare and completed the operation without untoward incident. Nevertheless, there was no sign that the old 40th Foot would be shipped to Europe, as India still demanded a substantial British garrison.


Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: Tyrone on Sunday 20 April 08 23:33 BST (UK)
Annie
Many thanks for all that information. I was of the opinion that they had a cushy time in India during WW1. How wrong I was.
Would they have been given campaign medals while they were there. If I can get his full number I could work from there.

Once again thanks

Regards
John
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: Kevwood on Monday 21 April 08 16:56 BST (UK)
Hi, there is aWilliam Pennington born Wigan and in the south lancs,attestation papers on Ancestry.

BUT in 1914 he is listed as 37 and 68 days. Must be his father as has a son William, listed.

Says wife Ellen of 2 Sandbrook Road.
          Step daughter Alice Witherington, Buckley Rd, Billinge?
          Son William, 2 Sandbrook Rd,

He only served for 10 days.

Regimental number, 15801

Kev.




Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: liverpool annie on Monday 21 April 08 17:11 BST (UK)


I wonder if this is them in 1901 .... as Dad is a coal miner maybe he was exempt !!  :-\

1901

27 Princess Street Pemberton

William Pennington   38
Jane Pennington   39
Ann Pennington   18
Catherine Pennington   16
Elizabeth Pennington   14
Jane Pennington   10
Robert Pennington   12
William Pennington 8 Son Wigan Lancashire

RG13/3566 Folio 109 Page 22
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: Kevwood on Monday 21 April 08 17:15 BST (UK)
The one on ancestry is a different William as i have just found him and his family in 1901.

Sorry. ::)

Kev.
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: Tyrone on Monday 21 April 08 23:05 BST (UK)
Hi Annie & Kev

Many thanks for your help so far,  It's much appreciated.

Kev.
The William in 1914 is a different lot. I have his attestation papers, I went down the wrong line initially at the start. So if you know of anyone researching this William they can have his papers for free. I've got papers for a couple of more William  Penningtons as well. I'll dig them out and put them on here, somebody could be researching them.

I've got a birth cert for a William Pennington]DOB 6/12/1894 Orrell
 Father... Malachi Pennington. Mother Jane (Winstanley) Free to a good home..


Annie.
Thats is my family in the 1901 census.  I have all the census from 1871/81/91/1901. I have also all the BDM of Williams siblings and most of their children's BDM's and lots of other details.

If you's can advise me how I can get Williams army number and papers that would be a great help.

Many thanks for your help

John
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 23 April 08 01:23 BST (UK)

Well John .... I've been asking around and we're not having much luck I'm afraid  :-\

**9924 looks about right for a 1st bn number (several casualties of the 1st battalion had similar numbers) and there's 6 William Penningtons for the South Lancs but none of numbers jump out as 1st Bn numbers ........ the info is off the MIC rolls but as the 1st Bn spent the whole war in India -  there's no guarentee that your man would have any medal entitlement and therefore possibly - is not listed. !!

I think the only option is a service record check at Kew I'm afraid !!  :) ..... but I'm still looking !!

Annie  :)

Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: finpat on Wednesday 21 July 10 18:18 BST (UK)
My grandfather Richard Coleman was killed serving with the 7th battalion south Lancashire regiment on the 10 June 1917. He has no known grave so I am trying to find out if possible where and how he died so as I can try and find a likely cemetery he may be in any help you can give will be most grateful.
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: mmm45 on Wednesday 21 July 10 18:28 BST (UK)
Finpat
You need to see if the unit war diary for 7th Batt exists at Kew then you can send off for relevant dates to see where the battalion were at that time.

Ady :)
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: finpat on Wednesday 21 July 10 19:29 BST (UK)
Thanks for that I will try
fin
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: Sloe Gin on Thursday 22 July 10 01:20 BST (UK)
finpat,

I have posted some info on your thread here

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,469708.0.html
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: Stephen Nulty on Friday 23 July 10 12:35 BST (UK)
From the history.....

"The whole of the 9th June was spent in readjustment of the line and in digging new trenches. This necessitated all four companies withdraeing and siting a new series of field works between Oostaverne Wood and Oostaverne Village; this work was carried out under considerable shell fire, but the trenches were sufficiently deep by daylight on the 10th to hold troops and afford cover".

On the evening of the 10th the battalion was moved to support the 7th Loyals but in the process they were caught in a German bombardment. "D" Company suffered heavily with one shell alone killing nine men.

 
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: Pete Keane on Friday 23 July 10 17:33 BST (UK)
Stephen

Is that from Mulallys book?

If not, I have a copy if you or Annie need anything from it.

Pete
Title: Re: South Lanc's WW1
Post by: finpat on Friday 23 July 10 17:50 BST (UK)
Hi Pete
I would be very interested in any books about activates around that time.
Fin