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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: suttontrust on Saturday 20 May 06 07:34 BST (UK)
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My mother used to maintain that a cousin of hers was abducted into the white slave traffic. This would have been 1910s or 1920s, in London. I found that ludicrous, until I read that such a thing did exist. Has anyone else found an instance of this?
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Hi Suttontrust,
The white slave trade still exists today in parts of the world. Many girls who go missing end up in brothels and are moved around and hidden to avoid detection.
Ros
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Hi, Ros, yes I appreciate that it's rife today, but in the early part of the 20th century there was apparently a spate of trafficking to the Middle East. I'm interested to see if anyone else has come across stories of it in their families.
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There is a program starting about how rife it is in this era. I have not heard of it being so early in the century though. I know that in some places there was still "black" slave trade. I will have a scout about and see what i can come up with for you.
;)
There is a book available on this subject called "slaves in the family" by the author Edward Ball
;)
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My mother used to suspect the mormons as being a sort of white slavers. They go out of their way to make friends with young people - who they then persuade to go abroad with them and you never hear of them again!
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I hope that isn't true, Lendevon! The Mormons have been very helpful and generous to me in my researches, and never once tried to convert me. I think I'd have to stop using their services if I really thought they were white slavers - and that would be a sad day! The Director of my local LDS family history centre is a really nice, helpful man!
MarieC
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My daughter spent a year on an educational exchange in California and although she could not accept their religious practices she said that as a group the Mormons were the only ones who she could trust not to be involved in drugs drinking and other unacceptable behaviour.
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My mother used to suspect the mormons as being a sort of white slavers. They go out of their way to make friends with young people - who they then persuade to go abroad with them and you never hear of them again!
Maybe your mum was thinking of the Moonies
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I have a few friends in snowflake Arizona who are mormons. I met them whilst they were over here doing their Eldership if you can call it that. The young guys are more or less forced to come over here and knock on doors to try to convert people. They are only allowed to open mail from home on wednesdays which is their day off and they are not supposed to socialise except for the people they share the house with. Its a very cruel thing to do with young boys but thay feel like they are meant to do it. The mormon church changed when the jehovah witnesses formed their own group and left the latter day saints which made them come to the decision that multiple wives were wrong too. The few old school mormons that were left have stuck to the old ways. It would not suprise me if they were involved with some kind of slave trade as most people dont even know that they founded the casinos in Las Vegas and that their church still benefits from Gambling which is supposedly against their religion. You can only enter their main churches if you are baptised by them as i found out when i was invited to a wedding in Saltlake city, so i didnt go!!
People and religions are not always what they seem but thats not to say its ALL bad, just some.
P.S They also have to pay 10% of their weekly wages to the church in order to remain members!!!
;)
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My mother grew up in the kind of fishing village where everyone had old testament names and where Ian Paisley would have been regarded as dangerously liberal. Any kind of outsider was an alien to be viewed with utmost suspicion.
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There was a programme on TV about white slave trade but that was in Cornwall and in the 16 century. Ships from the Far East use to attack villages and carry them off to sell.
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Hi Suttontrust,
My Grandmother, Beatrice Minnie Harmer, (1906-1976) was always on about the White Slave Trade! She maintained that lots of girls were offered a puff of a "funny" cigarette in Lewisham, passed out...& woke up in Eastambul!!
Who knows if it really happened! (I suspect that she probably read about it in "The News of the World".
Romilly.
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I must say I agree with MarieC, I have found the mormons to be very nice and friendly people. Have many friends that are mormons and not once have they tried to talk religion with me. Also have had loads of help at the local family history centers and at the family history library in Salt Lake city. I try to go to Salt Lake city as least once a year.
Badgirl most religions require their members to pay money to the church usually 10% of their income.
Cheers
Anne
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Romilly, your Gran and my mother obviously believed the same thing. I wish I could remember where I read about it, but I'm sure there was more to it than scandal-sheet newspaper speculation.
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Hello
I think this is pretty well documented in books and newspaper reports of the time: http://home.pacbell.net/tonyprey/burning/vicera.htm
http://www.victorianlondon.org/ has some earlier accounts too.
Regards
Biker
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What fascinating Links Biker!!
They will keep me busy for ages. ;D
Best Wishes, Romilly.
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When I was a kid there was talk of "white slavers" who abducted young women and forced them into prostitution in the Middle East. Probably quite unreasonably the slavers were considered to Lebanese. I have no idea if that is true.
I remain uncommitted to any religion but I am opposed to the daft urban legends about how dreadful the Jews, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses etc are. I see no historical or contemporary proof that the Mormons are or were involved in white slaving. The issue of the polygamy that they practiced is another matter and lives in the past together with innumerable religious practices of other sects.
Tithing a percentage of income was the norm at one time. The Mormons did not invent it - it was the practice in the traditional Christian churches as well as in Islam. 8)
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There is no conclusive evidence to prove or disprove that mormons were involved but a website called "utah history to go" has some interesting facts about Mormons involvement with slavery and apparently documents are available to support this. This is not necessarily white slavery but anyone that supported any kind of slavery could of been directly/indirectly involved. We have to remember that the 'new' mormons are very different to the ones that were and the 'new' mormons do not support many beliefs that once were held by the church. Many mormons were business people and from what i have read on various websites, it was business people that were linked to white slavery.Who knows for sure what happened back then.
;)
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Suttontrust,
This has opened up a pandoras box of replies, all of which are very interesting - and I shall follow them all. However to get back to your original question, when you say "abducted into white slave traffic" - slave, as has been demonstrated could mean many things and could include many different parts of the world, or even within Britain.
Do you know any more than what your mother told you, and if so, can you tell us?
Denn
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Mormons were physically attacked by vigilante groups from about 1830 to 1838 or so. One of the main causes of that was stated to be that they stole Negro slaves and emancipated them. Those attacks caused them to move en bloc from Illinois to Utah.
The American Civil War caused millions of deaths amongst young men leavings widows and young women who had little hope of marriage and no means of support other then descent into prostitution. The Mormons imported a great many of these to bolster their polygamous marriages. This was far removed from White Slavery.
Polygamy was abolished by Federal Act and enforced militarily - nothing to do with the Jehovah's Witnesses who have no common origin with the Mormons. They are alike in that they actively seek converts as do most faiths except Judaism.
Like Methodists or cyclists or farmers the Mormon church has both good and bad people. However, I repeat that that the LDS does not merit unfounded attacks, bolstered by false reports or bogus statistics and neither does any other faith group. It seems unfair to imply that because some of them are "business people" that they must have some sinister connections or activities!
However, and finally from me, we have had several lengthy threads about slavery and it has been pointed out that slavery was absolutely universal until comparatively recent times. White Slavery however is with us today and is a serious problem in Britain and not because of the Mormons.
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I agree that it's sparked off a fascinating discussion. The starting point was a memory of my mother maintaining in hushed tones that a cousin, living in London, disappeared. It was said, presumably with no evidence, that she had been abducted into the "white slave traffic". As has been shown here, such a trade did exist, and it's quite possible that the story was true. Proves that there's nothing new about people trafficking, unfortunately.
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Suttontrust, do you know rouhly what date this happened? My Grandmother was working in London in the 1930s where lots of young girls disappeared and my Gran thought (it seems naively) that they had just left their job without so much as saying goodbye or collecting their belongings. One evening a man tried to encourage her and her friend to go to his house for drinks and something happened where her and friend ran screaming from the house. The same man was often seen with young girls and some never appeared again. Maybe that was something to do with the slave trade but i will never know as she died before she would say any more to any of us. ???
Hack, i have it on good authority from a mormon elder that Jehovah's witnesses were once part of their church but they disbanded and formed their own group. I studied their religion for about 2 years and even went to their meetings on a saturday morning to try to understand them but i am afraid i could not give up coffee. I am not saying that because they were business people they were involved in white slave trade, i am saying its possible. We cannot deny the fact that it was as rife then as it is now, as suttontrust can understand being personally affected by it.
;)
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The Jehovah's Witnesses were founded by Charles Taze Russell in 1869. He was by birth a Presbyterian who became disillusioned and ran bible classes based on the teachings of the Adventists. The Jehovah's Witnesses emerged from those bible classes.
The Mormon teachings are based on the teachings of their founder Joseph Smith who claimed to have found golden plates which proved that a tribe of American Indians was descended from one of the lost tribes of Israel.
There doesn't seem to be any evidence of a common origin
David
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Well thats what the Mormons claim! They claim that when the arguments of polygyny began, along with a few other problems, the church divided into many groups, one being Jehovah's. I am confused by why they would claim this if it was untrue as they are now so different religions. I actually had a discussion at my home about this where 4 elders came to tell me about the disbanding and what it had meant to their church. I asked my Ex boyfriends parents (Jehovah's witnesses) about this and they backed up the claims too although they had different reasons for the disbanding.Maybe what they meant was that some left their church to join Russell as i know that the Jehovah's witnesses have gone through many changes too. Still, only saying what the Mormon elders told me.
;)
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I'm with David on the origins of the JWs. There were, as now, a lot of people attracted to new religions and prepared to hop from one to another. The adherents of groups like the Witnesses and the Mormons are not usually the most knowledgeable about their own history, strange as it sounds. They have been taught the current version of the story, which may not be objective history.
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I really don't think Mormons were involved in white-slave traffic but I do think they recruted people to thier religeon.
Here is an incident as written by an ancestor of mine and I found it on the internet. I means I have scores of 'cousin's' in Ohio!!!
1851 cenus South Molton
John Sparks 13 servant works on farm b Bishops Nympton (Head of house William Elworthy)
Name: John SPARKS
Given Name: John
Surname: Sparks
Sex: M
Birth: 8 Dec 1838 in Bishopnympton, Dvnshr, England
Death: 17 Jul 1921 in Stone, Oneida, ID
Burial: 21 Jul 1921 Stone, Oneida, ID
LDS Baptism: 29 Aug 1854
Endowment: 14 Jun 1869
Sealing Child: 29 Oct 1980 Temple: OGDEN
Note:
Check on father-William Smith Blake married Elizabeth Chapple after John was born.
**Made the correction to John's father.
Life History of John Chapel Sparks:
John Chapel Sparks was born at Bishampton, North Dever, England Dec. 8, 1838. My father died when I was about seven years old. About one year after mother was married again to a man by the name of William Smith. Shortly after their marriage they moved to a town in Devenshire named Maryansly. Then after that they moved to another town in Devenshire named Georgenympton. Then after that they moved again to another town named Southmelton and when I was about twelve years old they emergrated to Swansway, South Wales where they resided a short time and then went to Glyn Neath at which place I was married to Georgina Berry on the thirteenth day of October of 1857. About 1859, then all of the family moved to Aberdare, Glemorgan Shore, Wales and I worked in the iron factories until the year of 1865. On the seventeenth of April, myself, my wife and one child left Aberdare for Liverpool, England on the twenty-nineth we sailed from Loverpool on the "Ship Bell Wood". Arrived at New York on June 1st, 1865. Then took leave to Wyoming arrived there on the fifteenth. Then started on the plains with ox team arriving in Salt Lake City, November 29th. About December fifteenth went to Brigham City, Box Elder County, at the time of building the rail road. I worked for Shoup and Young on their contract in Weeber Canyon, and after that worked on the Centeral Pacific near Round Mountain West of Brigham City in Box Elder County. In February 1871 went to Park Valley working on Kelso Ranch. Then moved to Kelton in the winter. The next spring I went freighting to Snake River for the mining camps in Idaho which I followed until the year of 1876. My dear wife died at Kelton on January 27, 1876 and left me with four children. I then worked for the rail road company at Kelton for that summer and in the winter I went to Brigham City with my family. About February 1877, I was married again to Montry Hawkins of Brigham City. Then in April, I moved to Monument Point and worked making salt until the year of 1893. Then moved on a ranch at Stone, Oneida County, Idaho where I still reside at the present time of writing this. My second wife having died on May 22, 1909. Number of children living Sept. 1, 1909 first family 4, number of children living Sept. 1, 1909 second family 9 total of 13. Number of grandchildren living Sept. 1, 1909 first family 15, second family 13 for a total of 28. Number of great-grandchildren living 2. Number of children living Sept. 1, 1921 first family 3, second family 9, total 12. John Sparks died July 19, 1921. At Stone, Oneida County, Idaho.
Number of Grandchildren living July 24, 1921 was 64, number of great-grandchildren living July 24, 1921 was 20.
Added to this was
John Chapel Sparks was born at Bishngmpton, England, December 8, 1838. He was the only child, his father was killed in the iron factory. When he was 7 years old. About 1 year later his mother married a man by the name of William Smith, shorly after they moved on a farm named South Hampton and lived there until he was about 12 years old, from there they emergrated to South Wales where they lived until he had grown to manhood. He had endured many hardships working on different farms as farming was much different then now. Wages were very small and they didn't have but very little to eat. About this time he met and married a girl by the name of Georgina Berry on the 13th of October 1857. They had 3 children born in Wouth Wales of which two of them died and were buried there, the third was about 18 months old when they left for America. While living there father worked in the iron factory which he said was very hard work, he was injured while working there and it caused him to be very stuped shouldered. He was converted while living in Wales, in fact the Mormon Missionaries made his home their head-quarters'
G.W.