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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: mezentia on Thursday 18 May 06 13:13 BST (UK)
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Can anyone more familiar with Yorkshire place names than me decipher where Mary Foster was born?
David
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David,
I'm fairly certain the written words are 'Long Enalsol' but as to the where-a-bouts I havn't a clue. Do you have any clues as to where other family members were born?
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Hi David
That's what I thought, but I can't find anywhere with an even remotley similar name!! The Mary Foster I'm trying to track down didn't appear with the rest of her family on the 1861 census, but is there in 1871. I assume she must have been away elsewhere. She had a daughter in 1861, so I thought she might be with relatives. This Mary has the right birthdate, c1827, but I can't work out why she should be in Lancashire working (?) as a sick nurse.
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Hi
What was Mary Foster's maiden name?
Have you found her on the earlier census to know what she put then as her place of birth?
What was Mary's daughter called who you say was born in 1861?
Wendy
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Hello Wendy
Mary's maiden name was Mills, and she was born around 1827 in Leeds. She was married to Andrew Foster in 1846 in Leeds. Their children were:
Mary Jane 1847 Leeds
Andrew F 1849 Leeds
Hannah 1851 Leed
Walter 1854 Northallerton
Sarah E(lizabeth?) 1858 Northallerton
Emma 1861 Northallerton
Alice 1863 Bishopton, Ripon
Lilly 1863 Ripon
And the little surprise, Arthur 1868 Ripon
David
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Hi
thanks for that would this then be your Mary Foster with her Mother?
RG9/3662 North Allerton
folio 70
page 7
Mary Mill** bn circa 1794 Bishop Monkston Head
Mary Foster born circa 1830 Leeds Daughter in Law
( not as we know it today ,meaning Daughter of Mary Mills by Law)
Hannah bn 1851 leeds Grandaughter
sarah bn 1858 North Allerton """"
Emma bn 1860 "" ""
Wendy
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Hi Winston
I think you've found where my Mary Foster went to. :D Certainly fits with the reast of what I have at the moment. Thanks for your help.
However, I also think you've also uncovered another mystery, and that's who is their next-door neighbour, Thomas Scatchard? On the 1851 census, there's a 20 year old rope maker Thomas Scatchard, a "cousin" , living with Andrew and Mary Foster in Leeds, but does cousin mean cousin as we would have it today? Then, in 1861, the next door neighbour of Mary Mills is Jane Scatchard, 71 years old and head of household but unmarried, and living with her is Thomas Scatchard, a nephew, age 31 and a rope maker. But does nephew mean Jane's sibling's son?
Then, in 1891, Mary Foster is living with her son-in-law George Anderson and her daughter Alice in Ripon. Lo and behold, there is a 20 year old Thomas Scatchard as a boarder, not a rope maker this time, but a railway porter. That, methinks, is all a bit too much of a coincidence???
David
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I had a thread about relationships recently and I was directed to
www.brainydictionary.com/
It seems that the term niece/nephew can be applied to the child of a whole range of related people.
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In the 1851 Census Elizabeth Craddick (Craddock) is recorded as born in "Longhamsel", Yorkshire. Does this take us closer to an interpretation of "Long Emasol"?
Adrian
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This is a wonderful puzzle.
In the 1851 Census, 22 people had their birthplace recorded as Long [H]E[l]ms[ae]l[l]. But I can't see any other link between them as yet, nor can I find a convincing location.
In this research, I notice that a lot of people seem to have been born in Long, Yorkshire, and that most of them lived in Leeds / Pudsey. Is there a placename Long in that area ?
Adrian
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David
Can't spend more time on it. Maybe you can get someone in the Pontefract area to say whether there was ever an area near North Elmsall or South Elmsall that went by the name of Long Elmsall.
Adrian
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The more I look at this one the more it looks like the enumerator has corrupted a word spoken in the Yorkshire dialect.
No 'aitches so the first letter may or may not be H
enal - something like HenHole. Perhaps the word even begins with N
sol - sle, sul, sel, sal, sail, sall - could be any, depends a lot on the part of Yorkshire it came from.
I can't find anything like it in the current Leeds A-Z
sorry
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Word reads as you say. Doesn't look English ! If speaker's accent was strange to enumerator, may be he wrote it as sounded. I'd this error on a marriage cert. of unmarried lady's surname.
I too suggest South Elmsall between Wakefield and Doncaster. May be was a Long one too. Enter S.Elmsall in browser see if they've own web-page and history.
Cuddy.
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Thank you everyone for your help, but I've been barking up the wrong tree ;D. Wendy has put me firmly back on the right track, and inadvertently, I think, identified a real challenge: how to find out the relationship between the Scatchards and the Fosters. I've managed to uncover two marriages, unfortunately, however, both to a Thomas Foster. Now to try and discover which is the Thomas I'm interested in. :-\
David
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Hi
URGENT
Any chance as the image is no longer needed can you delete it then maybe the pages will be shorter in Width?
I hate having to scroll right across the screen.
Please?
Just thought I'd post this, that Thomas Scat* bn 1871 Leeds who was boarding with Alice Anderson and her hubby in the 1901 also same occupatin too.
In the 1841 census next door to Mary Mills and her hubby Matthew ( mary Fosters parent's)
Was
Jane Scratcher 1791 Yorkshire
Thos Scratcher 1830 Yorkshire
I did follow this Thomas through the census and he is seen to have had a son Thomas bn 1871 Leeds and is not at home in the 1891 census
So as you say TOO much of a Coincidence for them not to be related in some way.
There was an Elizabeth Pen****? living in between them not sure who she is as image not very clear and very dark
In the 1851 census
Found Jane by a matter of elimination she is with her married sister
Elizabeth Pennington bn 1783 Bishop Monkston
Jane Scatchard bn 1790 "" Badly mistranscirbed so I have only put her as she is known
Mary Pennington 1815 Ferry Hill Durham Daug-in-law
Simeon Penningon 1843 """""""" Grandson
I'm giving this info but I am not sure where I am taking it to.
Wendy
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Hi Wendy
Yes I'd willingly remove the image, but I don't know how. :(
The only reason I made it so wide was I noted that lots of people complained about the lack of handwriting to compare on small images. Oi Vay!!
Thanks, anyway for your reply. It's given me some more to go on. I've been looking for Thomas Scatchard on the IGI to see if there were any marriages to Fosters, and I've found two, one in 1767 and one in 1795. Trouble is trying to track the children down in pre-census times.
David
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HI David
I too had been doing the same and while searching I came across a possible set of parents for the Nephew Thomas bn 1830 who was with aunt Jane
His possible parents could be a Thomas and Sarah
follow the link unless you had seen it
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
Again only possibles.
Wendy
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Hello Wendy
Page two of this conversaaton seems to have shrunk to a more normal size :)
Thanks for your time in helping me with this particular bit of research. Your said earlier "I'm giving this info but I am not sure where I am taking it to.", and I must admit it's been a puzzling journey for me too. However, one of the fun things about this game is the fact it takes you to some strange places sometimes. I'm learning a lot about curriers and ropemakers and thats all a bit different to the other side of the family where they're all chain and nail makers.
I tried following your link, but all I get is the IGI search page. Is there any chance you could give me a few more details so that I can try the same search?
Thanks
David
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HI David
I will send a personal message with the info I had found.
Wendy
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hi
my first thought when reading this was
mary foster visitor wife 32 sick nurse born do (ditto) england
compareing the letters of the rest of the words on the bit i can see i think the writer has crossed out the long part of the word looking at the writers other letters i think he was or must have been rushing
good luck xx