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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: 3grkiwi on Sunday 07 May 06 05:04 BST (UK)
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Brogdens' Recruits to New Zealand
Can anyone help with the following 2 problems....
(1) James Palmer came to NZ on the "Zealandia" as a Brogden Recruit in Dec/Jan 1872/73 (according to ref. "The Farthest Promised Land" by Rollo Arnold) probably landing at Bluff rather than Port Chalmers. Has anyone any info. confirming this or providing the FULL passenger list including Brogden's people on that ship.
(2) Also trying to track whether James Palmer's Wife, Dinah (Diana) Palmer, nee Brown, came to NZ at the same time. They were married in Beckley, Oxon. 27/9/1869.
Any help appreciated, Owen.
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Hi Owen,
I found passenger lists for both those years, but couldn't see a PALMER aboard either;
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/%7Eourstuff/Zealandia1872.htm
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/%7Eourstuff/Zealandia1873.htm
I've never heard of 'Brogdens' Recruits' so I'm intrigued. Was this a special emigration group, children, or military, perhaps?
Regards, riley
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Hi again,
After Googling I discovered that Brogdens Recruits were better known as 'Brogdens Navvies'. This was in effect an emigration scheme whose goal was to 'import' skilled workers to build a nation-wide railway system. One ship I've found was the Chile, which;
"...brought out, in the main, immigrants under the scheme operated by the contracting firm of John Brogden and Sons. Called Brogden's Navvies, they were brought out to New Zealand as part of a group of 2,172 English immigrants (1,298 able bodies men and their families) over a 9 month period from July 1872 to April 1873 to advance the development of a nation-wide railway system. All had been offered two years employment, guaranteed at the wages currently paid in New Zealand, on the firm's railway contracts in various parts of the colony. In addition to significantly increasing the population of the colony, Brogden's scheme served to greatly increase the interest in emigration to New Zealand, an interest ascribed '...the letters received from Mrssrs. Brogden's emigrants, which are now scattered throughout this country month by month'."
Source - The Farthest Promised Land by Rollo Arnold
The Evening Post, June 19th 1873
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/%7Eourstuff/Chile1872.htm
Could the PALMERS have arrived on another vessel carrying Brogden's Navvies?
riley
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Its possible that the Palmer's may have arrived in New Zealand on another ship but the extract below from The fartherest Promised Land by Rollo Arnold. Pages 80 - 81 is my best source to date !
“While in Invercargill Holloway met some old acquaintances from Oxfordshire. James Palmer, who he had recruited from Bletchington for Brogdens, told of wages averaging ten shillings a day, since he had arrived in New Zealand on the Zealandia on 4 January 1873. From Palmer, Holloway had some good news of William Terry, a union man from Kirlington, who had also come out on the Zealandia for Brogdens.”
Both James Palmer and his wife Dinah appreared in the 1871 Census records for Bletchington so I know that their departure for NZ was after this date.
An extract with reference to the 'Zealandia' from the Otago Daily Times 3 Jan 1873 states: - “392 passengers, most landed at Bluff. 84 for Dunedin. " I deduct from this that the Bogden Recruits did not appear on the passenger list of 58 as listed for the 28 Dec 1872 arrival at Bluff & 10 Jan 1873 at Port Chalmers.
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Hi Owen,
This site lists 16 of the Zealandia's 31 voyages to New Zealand.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ourstuff/PassListO-Z.htm
riley
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Hi Owen
Archives has that voyage listed on Archway so maybe it would be worth emailing them
"Zealandia" (ship) - 4 October 1872 - 4 January 1873 [Use copy available in the reading room, Wellington]
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/CallSimpleSearch.do
Bronwen
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Hi Owen,
I found this site with some background information on Brogden, which mentions a fleet of 15 ships which took Brogdens Navvies to New Zealand. I'll have a look at the Zealandia's passenger list at Archives for you next week.
Do you happen to know the names of the vessels, and their ports of arrival?
Regards, riley
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Hi Riley,
I have a copy of "Brogden's Recruits by Gordon Sylvester" that featured in "The NZ Genealogist Jul/Aug 1996". This lists 15 ships transporting Brogden's recruits to NZ arriving between 9 July 1872 and 5 April 1873.
I have not seen passenger lists for the Brogden's listed ships other than having tried to locate James & Dinah PALMER on the Zealandia's passenger list for the voyage landing at Bluff in Dec 1872 as listed in the furtherest Promised Land'.
I will appreciate your looking up the Zealandia's passenger list at the Archives next week.
Regards Owen
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Hi Owen,
I checked the Zealandia voyage but could find no mention of any passenger named PALMER. I chekced Sylvester's article "Brogden's Recruits" and Arnolds "The Fartherest Promised Land" as well. Sylvester seemed to suggest that Brogden's Recruits might not be differentiated in passenger lists, making identification difficult, and that some might not appear at all, which I find very frustrating.
Regards, riley
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Hi Riley,
Many thanks for the checks you have done. I am ever hopeful James & Dinah Palmer may show up on some NZ passenger arrival list.
Regards,Owen
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Hi Owen,
I can't provide passenger list, but may be able to explain why. My g.g.grandfather came to NZ on the Zealandia - left London 10th October 1872 - and he's not on the passenger list either, but I have discovered that a lot of them disembarked in Bluff and then the ship went on to Dunedin. The passenger list seems to be only those that got off in Dunedin!!
There is some information about the ship's arrival in Bluff in the newspaper The Southland Times, dated 31st December 1872, which is available to view on
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
I really want to confirm my Richard William Jones was there too, so will keep you informed if I find out anything more.
Good luck,
Abby
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Hi Abby,
Your reply is much appreciated and confirms my research to date that the Zealandia Dec 1872 arrival passenger list covers only those that landed at Dunedin. The 31 Dec 1872 Southland Times article gives a good precis of the outward voyage
It is my Great Great Grandparents James & Dinah Palmer that arrived Dec 1872 on the Zealandia according to an extract in "The Farthest Promised Land". I would be interested to know how you established you GG Grandfather Richard William Jones arrived on the same voyage on the offchance it may lead to further information.
Regards
Owen
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Hi Owen,
Sorry - I can't give you any details, as it is only information that the family has handed down. That Richard came on the Zealandia, arriving in 1872 and until I discovered the off-loading at Bluff, I had thought an 1872 landing had been impossible! However, I doubt my search will ever be concluded and I have yet to have conclusive proof, so will keep you posted as soon as I find anything else out.
Sorry,
Abby
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I have researching the Brogden Navies, "Recruits" for some ten years now and I have unable to locate a copy of the Passenger Shipping list for this voyage.
The only sources which maybe of assistance are the Southland Museum , in Invercargill, or if the Immigration records of the Port of Bluff for the time can be found.
From my other research of the 15 voyages carrying Brogden recruits, the Brogden recruits were kept separate on the Shipping Lists in some cases. Rollo Arnold has identified 1169 of the 2148 persons who immigrated under the auspices of John Brogden & Sons. I have further identified another 500 or so from other sources. Unfortunately those on the Zealandia have eluded me.
All the information from previous responses has been confirmed by my research.
I am able to add the following: (Invercargill) Sunday, 15 March 1874. " ..... ascertained that J Palmer one of the men sent I from Bletchington last year in the Zealandia, liv'd in the Town, I had an interview with him in the afternoon, found he was getting on well."
C Holloway's book of jotting on New Zealand. Typescript Alexander Turnbull Library, Wellington, New Zealand. Also Labourers Union Chronicle, 04/07/1874 pg 2.
The Farthest Promised Land, Arnold Rollo, Victoria University Press, Wellington NZ. Pg 80-81.
"While in Invercargill Holloway met some old acquaintances from acquaintances. James Palmer, whom he had recruited from Bletchington for Brogdens, told of wages of ten shillings a day, since he had arrived in New Zealand on the Zealandia on 4 January 1873. From Palmer, Holloway had good news of William Terry, a union man form Kirtlington, who also came out on the Zealandia, for Brogdens."
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Hello Popajoe,
Somehow its really comforting to know others are wrestling with the same brick wall of Zealandia's missing passengers! I'm in Hawke's Bay, so a long way from Bluff & Invercargill, but do hope to get down there at some stage to do some seeking.
Good luck with your research and please let us know if you get a breakthrough. I'm actually thinking we should start another thread in the hope that someone in Bluff may know if any information exists there.
Welcome to Rootschat!! I've found everyone so friendly and helpful.
Abby
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Hello Abby
The Farthest Promised Land is available on the web at:
www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-arnfart-b3.html.
Zealandia did call at Bluff before proceeding to Port Chalmers. I will have to check the dates via the Southland Times, but I believe 28 December 1872 arrived Bluff, then on to Port Chalmers arriving there early January 1873.
Like you I have not been able to make the trip to Southland or Otago to see if there is a record in the Provincial Govt archives relating to Immigration at this time.
There are only 7 persons mentioned on Rollo Arnold's database on this voyage which are from other sources.
James Palmer,
John Sammons,
Frederick Shaw,
Wm Terry
Mrs Terry
Child1 Terry
Child2 Terry
Hope this provides some further information. There is no mention of Richard Wlliam Jones on Rollo's database, or of Dinah Palmer nee Jones.
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In the interests of good housekeeping, I’ve moved this post to completed.
Assistance has been provided …….
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Just in case 3grkiwi or the other respondents are still around, a list of the Brogden passengers of the Zealandia appears in this MA History thesis published in 2020:
'A bright eye to the main chance'
file:///C:/Users/House/Downloads/BLONDELLMAThesis.pdf
It includes an alphabetical list of over 1000 'Brogdenites' and lists a James, Dinah and Jesse PALMER of the Zealandia.
Spades
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That's brilliant, it allowed me to finally confirm what i had deduced, that my ancestor William Woodworth (after, Woodward) and his wife and baby son did indeed embark on the "Bebington" Sadly the baby died a month before they reached NZ. Now if I could just find decent info on the correct family of Woodworths back in the UK... ::)
Thanks Spades!
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Hi Kiwiozbrit,
Very pleased that it helped :-)
The thesis is a veritable goldmine of information.
Spades
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Thank you Spades. I appreciate you posting the article and its contact address.
I had discovered that Toitu Otago Settlers Museum (Otago Early Settlers Museum) held the 1872 'Zealandia' voyage Medical Journal, and was able to see from its contents that my Gt Grandmother Dinah Palmer was recorded in it, thus confirming she was a passenger aboard it to New Zealand. My assumptions since then are that James, Dinah and baby Jesse Palmer disembarked at Bluff from the Zealandia on 28 Dec 1872, James being a Brogden recruit as noted in Rollo Arnolds' book The Farthest Promised Land.
I am grateful to Delwyn Blondell for allowing her thesis to be placed on line for the likes of myself and other genealogist to confirm / progress our family research. but it still leaves me wondering the source of her Brodgen 'Zealandia' passenger list.
3grkiwi
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I think the source is that medical journal. It is implied within the text of the thesis.
Spades
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Yes, see pages 21-22 of the thesis. The Zealandia's medical journal does not appear in the theses' bibliography.
And there is an error in the thesis: the Lady Jocelyn arrived at Lyttelton, not Bluff as stated in the list of vessels on page 47. Contemporary newspapers reports reveal that her Brogden-employed passengers were transferred down to Bluff, one of several movements to take groups to where the work was.
Spades