RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wicklow => Topic started by: Seattle on Thursday 04 May 06 23:49 BST (UK)
-
Hello to all,
I've just been given a new lead as to where in Wicklow, my great grandmother, Ann Rogan, was born about 1821. I know her parents were Hugh and Isabella Rogan and she married in the Catholic Chapel in Dukinfield, Cheshire, England.
As I live in the States and can't visit a Family History Centre, can anyone advise me on how to find a Catholic birth record? I've checked the LDS site and can't seem to find anything. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right place or way. From a Google search, I see there is a St. Kevin's in Kilaveney, Tinahely. Would it be appropriate to write directly to the church? Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.
Thanks,
Seattle
-
Hello.
The Griffiths Valuation Index (1847-1864) shows Hugh Rogan in
the parish of Kilpipe, which is/was a church of ireland parish,
with dates of records from 1828 (baptisms)
The diocese/parish of Killaveney/Annacurragh (RC) have records
of baptisms from 1800 and marriages from 1801.
However it is unlikely these days that you can deal direct with
parish priests as they were inundated with requests since the
advent of the internet, most will now refer you to the county
heritage centre for a fee based search.
You should also consider that the majority of events were
recorded in the spouse/mothers parish which may not be the
same as that of the husband/father, as is the case with Hugh
Rogan.
The bottom line is you can try the parish in writing but expect
either no reply or a referal to the heritage centre.
Or try via this website:
http://www.wicklow.ie/Genealogy/index.html
Good luck.
Mike.
-
Hi Mike,
Thanks so much for the reply. I had a feeling that writing to the church would be unfruitful! As you say, there are so many of us looking these days! This is my first venture into Irish research, so I have a lot to learn. I agree that the best approach is probably through the county heritage centre. However, I was hoping to pin down her birthplace first. It was given as Dublin in the 1881 Census, but the parish record at the time of her marriage in 1841, says her parents resided in Killaveney, Wicklow. Of course, that doesn't mean that Ann was born there! I thought it was worth checking out though.
Is Ireland the same as the U.K., in that births prior to 1837 were only recorded in the parish records? I'm assuming there is no central location for all Irish births around 1821, but maybe I'm wrong.
Hugh Rogan was listed as a stonemason on Ann's marriage certificate. Is the Hugh Rogan you found in Griffiths Valuation, a stonemason, by any chance?
Once again, many thanks,
Sharon
-
Hello Sharon,
Irish Births are only avialable from 1864 prior to that its only Parish Records.
Tinahealy Parish has 2 Churches, one St Kevins is the one that covers Kilaveney
St. Kevin
Kilaveney,
Tinahealy
Co. Wicklow
It may be worth writing to the Parish Priest ( I don't have his name) but they are usually helpful
Best wishes
Mo
-
Hi Mo,
Oddly enough, I did find a listing earlier today for St. Kevin's with the parish priests name. If all else fails, I will try writing or e-mailing him. All he can say is no!
Many thanks,
Sharon
-
Dear Seatle,
Two years ago I visited St Kevin's of Kilaveny, Tinahely, County Wicklow, Ireland. I have an elderly cousin who lives in Tinahely who showed the gravesites of my ancestor's in the parish graveyards. The parish has a dwindling and elderly congregation and there is only one priest. The parish records are kept in the town library in Tinahely, the small town about three km down the road. Most of the gravestones are in need of restoration. The gravestones themselves contain the family lineage of the person buried. Your best bet is to call the library personally as I don't think they have a website.
Thanks,
Cleary in Florida
Hello to all,
I've just been given a new lead as to where in Wicklow, my great grandmother, Ann Rogan, was born about 1821. I know her parents were Hugh and Isabella Rogan and she married in the Catholic Chapel in Dukinfield, Cheshire, England.
As I live in the States and can't visit a Family History Centre, can anyone advise me on how to find a Catholic birth record? I've checked the LDS site and can't seem to find anything. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right place or way. From a Google search, I see there is a St. Kevin's in Kilaveney, Tinahely. Would it be appropriate to write directly to the church? Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.
Thanks,
Seattle
-
Catholic baptism records for Co. Wicklow are included in the pay-website of the Irish Family History Foundation at www.irish-roots.ie
It might be worth checking their list of sources to see if they have any details for the parish you are interested in. The records they provide are as transcripts, and each cost 5 Euro to view.
Shane
-
Dear Cleary and Shane,
Thank you both so much for the new information! I had about given up on this branch of my family. Now, I'll have another go.
Once again, many thanks.
Sharon in Seattle
-
Hi Folks,
I have a lead to my Kilty ancestors in County Wicklow, I wondered if anyone had any luck with searching the records or Gravestone inscriptions, if so how do I go about finding information on any of this.
As the 1901 census is now available for Ireland, this info I received has been confirmed on this census, as follows: John Kilty, Bridget, Wife, Children are: Thomas, John, Catherine, Edward, James, Charles, Jane, Hugh, Andrew.
Townland:Kilpoole Lower / Poor Law union: Rathdrum / Barony: Arklow / District: Wicklow Lower
Some members of the Kilty family came to Wigtownshire Scotland around 1790, first marriage in Scotland that I can find for my ancestors is in 1802 Stoneykirk Wigtownshire.
Any help will be very much appreciated.
-
The townland of Kilpoole Lower is in the Civil Parish of Kilpoole and the RC parish of Wicklow town. (the 1901 Kilty family are RC..)
see the Irish Times website for details of Catholic records for this parish records : Wicklow RC Parish (http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Wicklow&CityCounty=Wicklow&parish=Wicklow&churchid=503) The full records are available on Microfilm in the National Library.
The Irish Family History Foundation website (mentioned above) has transcripts of baptisms for Co. Wicklow, and there are a small number of Kilty records (9) that show up on their index, most of these are after 1830.
Shane
-
Thanks Shanew,
I followed your link, unfortunately the center I need to contact is now closed, but the info said to contact The National Library which I will do.
Just a daft thought, perhaps, do you know if there were any passenger lists coming over from Ireland to Scotland late 1700's, now, how desperate do I sound?
Slainte
-
Thanks Shanew,
I followed your link, unfortunately the center I need to contact is now closed, but the info said to contact The National Library which I will do.
Just a daft thought, perhaps, do you know if there were any passenger lists coming over from Ireland to Scotland late 1700's, now, how desperate do I sound?
Slainte
all part of the UK at that stage... so no passenger lists
It is a pay-website but the IFHF mentioned above (www.irish-roots.ie) has many RC baptisms for Wicklow parish. The Wicklow Family History Centre mentioned on the Times website is part of the IFHF.
p.s. you have to visit the National Library to see the microfilms - they do not do research for you
Shane
-
Thanks Shane,
I'll follow up on this link and let you know how things go
Linda
-
Hi Folks,
I have a lead to my Kilty ancestors in County Wicklow, I wondered if anyone had any luck with searching the records or Gravestone inscriptions, if so how do I go about finding information on any of this.
As the 1901 census is now available for Ireland, this info I received has been confirmed on this census, as follows: John Kilty, Bridget, Wife, Children are: Thomas, John, Catherine, Edward, James, Charles, Jane, Hugh, Andrew.
Townland:Kilpoole Lower / Poor Law union: Rathdrum / Barony: Arklow / District: Wicklow Lower
Some members of the Kilty family came to Wigtownshire Scotland around 1790, first marriage in Scotland that I can find for my ancestors is in 1802 Stoneykirk Wigtownshire.
Any help will be very much appreciated.
Hi Glencoe, i have alot of information on the Kilty family that you are inquiring about, starting with John and Bridgets Marriage.
My Family also started in Wicklow (Kilty) but i so far have not been able to connect both families to-gather yet.
Betty.
-
Hi Betty,
Just got your message, I have contacted the Heritage Center there, the woman I am dealing with is on a two week break right now, but has promised to get back to me when she returns, and is going to look as far back as she can for me on the family.
I have all the B.M.D.'s and census returns for the family when some of them settled in the UK, and in particular Scotland, some of them were in the fishing industry and traveled between Scotland and Ireland. Most of them were in farming, right up to the late 1800's, the first marriage certificate for the Kilty's here is 1802.
Please keep in touch, between us we may just mange to sort this out without resorting to handing over our credit card details!
Slainte
Linda
-
Hi Folks,
I have a lead to my Kilty ancestors in County Wicklow, I wondered if anyone had any luck with searching the records or Gravestone inscriptions, if so how do I go about finding information on any of this.
As the 1901 census is now available for Ireland, this info I received has been confirmed on this census, as follows: John Kilty, Bridget, Wife, Children are: Thomas, John, Catherine, Edward, James, Charles, Jane, Hugh, Andrew.
Townland:Kilpoole Lower / Poor Law union: Rathdrum / Barony: Arklow / District: Wicklow Lower
Some members of the Kilty family came to Wigtownshire Scotland around 1790, first marriage in Scotland that I can find for my ancestors is in 1802 Stoneykirk Wigtownshire.
Any help will be very much appreciated.
Hi Glencoe, i have alot of information on the Kilty family that you are inquiring about, starting with John and Bridgets Marriage.
My Family also started in Wicklow (Kilty) but i so far have not been able to connect both families to-gather yet.
Betty.
Some of the kilty names on the site are mine.There was another child called Charles too, but i assume that he died in infancy as the Charles on the Cenci is five years younger than the first, even though i cannot find a death for him. John Kilty married Bridget Ellis.Son Thomas went to England and married there.Two of his sons died in the war, and a daughter (Jean a nurse) died young also.Charles went right down through the family. Andrew died aged 18 years. There is also a Peter whose daughter married a William Death (Deth)one of her daughters married a O,Neill.
My GGGrandfather was James, his sons family are on the Wexford census, Joshua went down through ours.
Betty.
-
Hi Betty,
My Great G Grandfather is also James Kilty, but from Wigtownshire Scotland, do you know the names of the father and mother of John Kilty? Did they put this info on the marriage cert?
My g-g-g-grandfather was Barnard Kilty, and he too married an O'Neil (Sarah) apart from one of his sons, the rest have the usual names for the Kilty boys, therefore these names run all through the family. These were also the names of his brother's.
Linda
-
Hi,
My gggrandfather was James and he married Margaret Chasem but at the moment i do not have his marraige cert.
A few names that i got from the pay-per-view site were Ann, Mary and Joshua(down on Baptismal cert as) Jonus.
Names that go through the family are Mary,Margaret, Ann, Elizabeth, John, James, Michael, Edward, Catherine, they lived at one stage in Loggan, Carnew and Pallas.
Catherine had a baby girl called Sarah, but at the time she was not married.
The other family of Kiltys Johns fathers name was Thomas.
Ireland had the same name pattern as Scotland up til the 1960s
One of my sisters said that we came from Scotland another one said France originally.
There is another Kilty family on the 1901 and 1911 cenci, the name on the cenci is spelt Kealty but gradually changes to Kilty as the family grows.
I have one of the family from the pay-per-view site Father Laurence, son James born in 1860 with a note saying not sure of the surname spelling, It is down on Baptismal cert as Kiltey, born in Ashford county Wicklow.
Betty,
-
Hi Betty,
I was talking to a John Kiltie just the other day, (yet another spelling of this name) he contacted me through another relative, and as usual we discovered that we are from the same folk. He had been told the that we all originated in, of all places Norway? how crazy is that!
We definitely started off in either Ireland or Scotland, but the Scotland thing would have been early 1700's, that would mean I would have to do the trace via here. Not a problem with certs starting in the 1500's via www.scotlandspeople.gov, only thing is, once I trace them here, I would then be up against the same problem, linking them to Ireland and then back to Scotland.
An Irish comedian Patrick Keilty discovered that his ancestors did in fact originate in Scotland, but then he had the backing of professional genealogists, paid for by the television company who were doing the program "Who do you think you are"
Betty can you please give me some dates for these folks, birth etc. with all my earliest certs having "birth place, Ireland" on them, and allowing for some exaggeration of their ages I have Barnard born 1769-76 and the same era for his brothers Thomas, Robert, John, James etc.
Hopefully I will hear something from the Heritage Center soon that will link these folk, their records go back to just before 1800, so with any luck Betty, they may just say born in Scotland, and then I can find them, and all their certs from here, and send you this info, and to be able to send you the authentic cert from Edinburgh I would give you my email address, do you know of any safe way of doing this? Perhaps this site could suggest something?
Linda
-
Hi Glencoe, sorry for not writing sooner, i am a bit confused with this new format here but have been ill.
Will look around here to-morrow and try and find my feet again.
Regards,
Wexford
-
... I would give you my email address, do you know of any safe way of doing this? Perhaps this site could suggest something?
The PM (personal message) system is used here to exchange email addresses and other information that is not allowed to be posted on the boards. It's all explained in the help pages-
www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
Hi Seattle,
Just a bit of info on Killaveney:
The RC Church was built around 1847. You can find some of the graveyard listings here:
http://www.interment.net/data/ireland/wicklow/stkevin/kevin.htm.
There are no Rogans in that list, but it is not a complete listing. I could see an Anne Rogan born 1822 in Co. Wicklow on the www.brsgenealogy.com site, but as another member mentioned you would need to pay €5 to see the results.
I know Fr Gahan, the parish priest for Killaveney has all the records and for a donation he would be able to check the records for you; but as you already know Anne Rogan's parents' names and the church records for Killaveney only go back to 1800, you may not find much new info.
Prior to 1847 a catholic living in the Kilpipe area may have been buried in the old Whitefield graveyard. Unfortunaetly most gravestones in that graveyard are illegible now.
If you need to check Church of Ireland records then the local church is Kilcommon. There was also an old COI church in Kilpipe.
My parents are based in Tinahely and I will be going back this weekend. We have a book with a full listing for Killaveney graveyard, so I can check that for Rogans if you like.
Hope this helps,
Shane
-
Hi Shane,
Sorry about this, it's the Kity/Kelty family I'm looking into, Barnard Kilty born about 1769-75. Father: Bryon Kilty Mother: Margaret Kilty nee Courtney.
This is the info on Barnard's death cert. This info was given by Barnard's third wife, Sarah, and as she didn't know the ages of his children, I'm not too sure about his Father and Mother's forenames.
His brother's are Robert, John, William, Hugh, Alexander, Thomas etc. and they came to Scotland around the late 1700-early1800's. First marriage I can find so far is in 1802 Wigtownshire Scotland, just a small distance from Ireland.
They were mostly agricultural folk, but Barnard was a Flax Dresser by trade.
I would very much appreciate it if you could have a look for them, and I'd be all to willing to contact Father Gahan, a donation would not be a problem! Can you give me an address for him?
Linda
-
Hi Linda,
Sorry, I was trying to reply to the original poster on this thread. It looks like your ancestors were from the Arklow parish so I don't think you'd be able to find anything from Killaveney.
I would recommend doing a search on www.brsgenealogy.com (you'd need to register first) to see if you can find your ancestors there.
Good luck with your research!
Shane
-
Hi Shane,
Thanks so much for that!, I'll do this right away and let you know how I get on.
Linda
-
Hi Linda,
No problems. I took a quick look out of interest and can see that the site shows 9 Kiltys and 6 Kieltys born in Co. Wicklow. The furthest back is Anne Kilty born in 1769.
Unfortunately I don't know that area of Wicklow very well, so if you can't find the answers from the birth records then it might be a good idea to contact the Wicklow Family History Centre: http://www.wicklow.ie/familyhistorycentre/. They should be able to point you in the right direction.
All the best,
Shane
-
Hi Shane.
Did just that about two weeks ago, the woman I am in touch with at the center was going on Holiday, but said she would have a look for me, waiting to hear from her.
Ann Kilty would have been born around the same time as my grandfather, in fact almost exact dates.
Think I'll send another email with your findings to her.
Thanks Shane
-
Hi Glencoe, betty here i have some of the Kilty certs from the Church Baptismal Records off the site if you want me to put them on here?
My aunt Betty lived in Tinahely all her life and only died there a few months ago.
Bettyy
-
Hi,
Here are some of them cannot find them all at the minute.
Elleonora KEILTY
Birth 04/081861.
Parish Arklow
Co. Wicklow. Roman Catholic
Father Laurence Mother Catherine Kavanagh, sometimes spelt with C for K.
Sponsors Jacob Canterbury and Maria Clancy
~~~~~~~~---
Edward Kilty Baptism 04/11/1887
Kilpool Co. Wicklow
Father John Mother Bridget Ellis.
Sponsors Dionysios Byrne Honoria Stokes
Catherine Kilty Born 20/03/1885
Broomhall
Co. Wicklow
Father John
Mother Bridget ElliS
Sponsors Gulieimus Finley Bridget Turner
-----------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Kilty Born 08/08/1879
Ballinvally Avoca Co. Wicklow
Father John Mother Bridget Ellis
Sponcors Richard Sutton Jane Murphy
----------------------------------------------------------
Laurentus KILTEY Baptism 23/04/1864
Father Laurentus Kiltey Mother Catherina Kavanagh
Arklow Co. Wicklow
Sponcors Patricio Chatham Sarah Farell.Note at bottom says unsure of Surname.
On census as Kealty but as children are registered it goes to Kilty.
-----------------------------------------------------
-
John Kielty Born 03/05/1855. address Laggin Carnew (Laggin should be Loggan)
Father James Mother Margaret Chase.
Sponcors William Ward Ann Ward
There was also Joshua (Jonas on Baptismal Cert) Ann and Margaret that i have.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Catherine Kielty Loggan had a baby girl Sarah but she was not married at time.
I also had the death of Peter Kilty Ballinvally 1879 his daughter Mary Death/Deth registered it.
She lived in Coolgreanay at the time.
She married in Gorey town in the registery Office in 1860.
I have two other Kiltys who married in Arklow whom i believe were non-catholic at time of marraige.
On 1901 census there are two Keilty families in Arklow who have very similiar names for children but only one family on 1911 census.
Betty.
~~~~~~~~------------------
They also had a son James born in Ashford 1864.
-
Hi I just found out part of my family was bapitsed in Killaveney does anyone know when the records start and end when do they start from or how far can you go back on the records
-
Hi,
The baptism and marriage records for Killaveney go back to around 1800.
Do you know which townsland your ancestors were from? I also have tenant records for much of the area for the 19th century (1827, 1839, 1848, 1850 & 1868)
Shane
-
i dont know but thats were there baptised
-
My ancestor James Mouls was baptised (RC) in Kilaveney in 1801. His parents' address is given on the IFHF as 'Ballinglin' (not the usual spelling, I know).
How would I be able to find the townland where they lived? Perhaps this is the kind of thing the Wicklow Family History Centre could help with?
When he married, in 1834, it was in Rathdrum. His daughter Elizabeth was baptised in Rathdrum in 1845. But Elizabeth gave her birthplace as Mucklow [Mucklagh]. From a map of around 1870, Mucklagh seems very close to the railway station for Ballinglen. I'm wondering why James would have gone all the way to Rathdrum for the baptism, if Kilaveney was closer.
-
Hi,
I checked the Ballinglen tenant records (going back to 1827) for the name Mouls/Moules but could not find any. I also checked Ballybeg & Ballycummer which are nearby. Unfortunately I do not have the records for Mucklagh but they do exist (you can find them at the National Library in Dublin).
Was James Mouls' wife from Rathdrum? That would be the only reason I could think of that his daughter might be baptised there.
I also did a quick check of the local graveyard records but could not find any Moules there either.
Do you know James Mouls' mother's maiden-name? That could be helpful for finding out more.
The surname Mouls/Moules is not common and seems to be mostly confined to Co. Wexford in this period - that could be another angle for tracing the family back.
Shane
-
Hi Shane,
I'm most grateful to you for your help. It sounds as if Ballinglen was not, as I had imagined, a place where the parents of James Mouls were well dug-in.
As regards his wife's possible preference for Rathdrum as a place she may have been familiar with, that's a likely factor. Her name was Elizabeth Murphy, and so far I've not tried to trace her birth (because of the surname being one that a lot of people shared). Given that Rathdrum is where she got married, she may well have been from there.
It's heartening to know that the Nationa Library has the records for Mucklagh. (Incidentally, I'm aware that in Co.Wicklow there's another Mucklagh, but it's in a more remote location, and I thought the proximity to Ballinglen made the more southerly Mucklagh a better bet.)
Again, many thanks. I greatly appreciate your response.
Best wishes,
Peter
-
Hi Peter,
Mucklagh and Ballinglen fall under the old Coolattin estate. We are very lucky as they kept fantastic records of their tenants.
I notice from the IFHF website that there was another James Mouls baptised in Killaveney in 1826 who must have been a relation. This record may give some more clues (if you have not already seen it).
There are great tenant records and rental documents in the NLI for the Coolattin estate. Many of the documents go right back to the 1600s! The tenant records give details on occupation, age, number of children etc so this could give you a good idea of how the Mouls family in Mucklagh lived.
I live in Cork myself so do not get to check these records as often as I would like.
Given that the Mouls name is very rare in the Killaveney parish, perhaps James Mouls' father married into a local family in the area?
The best of luck with your research,
Shane
-
Hi Shane,
That’s exciting information! Thanks again for your help. I live in Scotland, so an expedition to the NLI will need some planning.
I hadn’t looked up the James baptised in 1826. I’ll see what emerges when I do.
“My” James had at least six siblings born 1803-1816 – the 1826 James could, of course, prove to be a nephew of his.
James’s parents were William Mouls and Margaret Magee. Who knows, the
Magees may have been longstanding Coolattin tenants.
Best wishes,
Peter
-
Hello San Telmo, my GG Grandparents came from Wicklow. I have found a copy of the 1868 Tenants of Coollattin Estate with them listed, but I am not able to find any other records. If you have copies of other Tenant Records, would it be possible for you to check for me to see if there are any Giddens, Giddens Gethins Githins, and any other variations of the name on any of the Records, I would be very grateful for any help
-
Hi there,
Did the 1868 Tenants of Coolattin Estate record show in which townsland / parish your GG grandparents lived?
The surname Gethings (and variants) is relatively common in Wicklow so it would be good to narrow down the search.
If you know what parish your GG grandparents lived in, you might be able to find some of their church records from the registers.nli.ie page which was recently launched.
Thanks,
Shane
-
They lived in Muskeagh, Wicklow. So far that is the only Townland that I have them living at. They were also there on the Griffiths Valuation and my GG Grandfather died in Muskeagh in 1879.
-
Unfortunately I only have a record from Muskeagh from 1839.
The records were taken in 1827, 1839, 1848, 1850, 1860 and 1868.
In the 1839 record for Muskeagh there is a holding for Richard and John Giddens. The holding was 34 acres, 1 rood and 20 perches, shared equally between both men.
Richard was 78 years old, his wife was 81 and they had 2 sons and a daughter living with them (although there is a note indicating that these were grandchildren, it is a little difficult to read). They also had a male and a female servant.
John was 67 years old, his wife was 69 and they had 2 sons, 2 daughters and a son-in-law living with them.
Both Richard and John were farmers.
I had a quick look at the records for Farnees which is a neighbouring townland, but I wasn't able to find any Giddens/variants there.
Hope this helps,
Shane
-
Actually the same Richard and John can be found in the Tithe Applotment records in 1826:
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=giddens&firstname=&county=Wicklow&parish=&townland=&search=Search
I imagine either Richard or John was the father of your great-grandfather going by their ages.
-
Thanks heaps Shane, that does help.
Maureen
-
Hi Shane,
If it's not too much to ask, are you able to email me a copy of that 1839 tenants survey?
Do you know how to obtain all of the other tenant survey's? We now have basic information from the 1839 and 1868 survey's but it would be nice to put a timeline in with all of the other survey's.
Again, thanks for all your help.
Cheers
Maureen