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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Tessy on Tuesday 02 May 06 20:19 BST (UK)
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Hi
I've done my best to clean up this image of my granddad when he was in France with the 19th Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers during WW1 - they're all wearing German army headgear for some reason???.
He's the Sergeant on the left. Can anyone clean it up further to get rid of the freckled effect on all the faces? And perhaps a bit of colour? I'm going to post a note on the Northumberland site to get people to have a look in case anyone recognizes any of their family.
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is this any better?
Penny
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That's much better PennyQ thankyou.
Can you tell me what tool you used to clean up the faces? I have PS7 and nothing I've used seemed to work.
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I use PaintshopPro so I don't know what the tool would be called in Photoshop, but I use a soften tool, set on a very small brush and go over the face one click at a time, staying away from any edges so that only the clear bits get smoothed out.
Hope that helps
Penny
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Hi Tessy
Great photograph of the Fusiliers and their trophies from the trenches
Yours aye
Paul
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Thanks fot that PennyQ and I'm glad you like the photo Pwenlock.
Tessy
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I have just viewed the photograph of the 19th Batallion wearing german helmets. My Great-grand father was Pte Frederick Whitfield (always known as Fred). His service number was 309 and he signed up in 1914. I am researching his histoy and would be greatful for any help. i have never seen a picture of him so i don't know if he is in the photogragh that is displayed by tessy.
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Hi
I've looked up your great grandfather in the historical records of the 19th Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers and all I can find is a Private F. Whitfield, regiment numer 309 and he was wounded and was sent home on 16/4/1918. The record fro 10/4/18 says " This day Senlis was heavily shelled for 8 hours by H.E. gas shells, practically the whole of "W" and "Z" Co. being affected".
Pte F. Whitfield would have been in "Z" company so it's possible he was affected by gas.
I don't know who the other men in the photo are so can't tell you whether any of them are your G Grandfather.
Sorry.
Tessy
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Here's a little color for the troops Tessy.
Regards,
Morrie
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Hello. My name is Shirley and I've just joined Roots five minutes ago, after doing a google search on '19th Btn Northumberland Fusiliers'. My great grandfather was in the 19th Btn, and he was killed 01/07/1916. I do have a few photos of him, will have to have another look to compare! Me and some of my family members are actually going to Belgium on Friday to do the Battlefields tour!
Shirley
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Hi Shiz
If you tell me your Gr grandfather's name, I can look him up in the History of the 19th Batt NF book that I have - it gives details of all the casualties they suffered. I've never been to the battlefields myself but with the aid of the book I was able to plot their route through France and Belgium day by day.
Tessy
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Hi Tessy.
His name is Fenwick White, service number 28/306. Some records I have found states he was 19th Btn, others state 16th Btn?
Shiz
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I'm sorry but I can't find any record of him in the 19th Btn Historical Records which suggests he may have been in the 16th Btn.
Tessy
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My grandfather - Stanley ORD was a private in the 19th Northumberland Fusilliers - as far as I know from their inception to the end of the the war. I never met him, have no photos and regrettably his son (my father) died last year and I only met him in the last 2 years of his life - he just told me my grandad was at the Somme and I found the rest out. It doesn't seem as if he was invalided out, never promoted and I know he was very short! Any help would be gratefully received.
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You should ask a moderator to transfer your question to the Armed Forces section. As a starter this appears to be his medal card on the NA website - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=4651883&queryType=1&resultcount=1
You can either pay £2 for a download, or download it from Ancestry. Ancestry may also have a copy of his service/pension record. However 75-80% were lost during the 1940 blitz.
I don't know the NF that well but the low number should suggest an early recruit. Here is a link to them - http://www.1914-1918.net/northfus.htm
You can follow their service in France by clicking on British Divisions on the left and following their Division. The National Archives may also have their War Diary, although it is very rare for Other Ranks to be mentioned.
Ken
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Private Ord. S. number 105 was sent home, wounded on 8.8.1917. He doesn't appear in the list of soldiers in the Battalion in November 1918 at the end of the war, so presumably he wasn't sent back to the front or he may have been transferred to another unit.
The 19th Battalion were at the Somme, they got to the woods west of Mailly-Maillet on the 6th July 1916. There job was to go into no-man's land, and construct a new jumping off trench 1000 yards long, 100 yards in front of the existing line. They had three nights to do the work. They lived in the woods and down in the hollow were 8 inch and 15 inch guns which shook the earth. Even though it was summer the duckboards in the trenches were covered over with 2 feet of yellow water. It took troops two and a half hours to reach the front line from the woods along a communications trench and this trench was often shelled by the enemy. When they got to the front the sight was appalling. " the dead lay in three regular parallel lines. three waves of Inniskillings and Newfoundlanders lay there as if on manoeuvres." While they were building the trench one wounded Inniskilling dragged himself into their trench. He had been in no-man's land for 6 days, inching himself back every night. By dawn the 19th Pioneers had to be clear of the trench. They came back to the woods covered in yellow mud from head to foot to sarcastic remarks from their mates. Three of the Pioneers were killed building that trench. They were at the Somme through July and August and the account I have read in the regimental history is terrible. "Tragedy, infinite tragedy lay in all directions". The !9th Battalion was a Pioneer Battalion, which meant "they were there, not to fight, but to work and be shot at."
Your Granddad was more than likely wounded at Villiers Fauchon on 12 July 1917. "W' Company was working in a system of trenches called the Bird Cage. It was continuously straffed by the enemy, especially with trench mortars. The enemy were seen off by return fire, but they were bombarded again until 1.15am. There were six killed, 23 wounded, 11 wounded 'at duty' and 6 died later in hospital. The company were congratulated on their work by the Divisional Commander the next day. That was the last casualties they saw before your Granddad was returned home, so he may have been in hospital in the intervening time.
All the information given is from my grandfather's copy of the Historical records of the 19th Battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers.
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Thanks so much for this - the conditions are unimaginable. I am off to northern France later this year and would like to pay my respects at some of the battlefields,, now I know where to go - been a few times before, but that was before I knew my grandfather fought there. The small man at the back to the right of the photo looks very much like my father and my brother and I know my grandfather was a short man .... I will see if I can positively identify him. I think there's one person alive who may be able to help - except he's now quite old.
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I came across this thread by accident whilst looking for something else, and was delighted to find some information regarding the 19th Btn RNF., there seems to be very little written about them.
Would Tessy please look in her copy of the Historical Records and see if she can find any reference to my grandfather Lt William Miller. He was from Berwick on Tweed, but was working as a teacher in Sunderland when he joined up which is why he ended up in the 19th.
I have a brass matchbox cover which is inscribed with his name and the regimental crest on one side, and a list of battles on the other:
Neuve Chapelle
Festubert
Armentieres
Beaumont Hamel
La Boiselle
Trones Wood
Delville Wood
Guillemont
Arras
St Quentin.
He was wounded several times, before finally receiving a "Blighty" when he lost his leg at, I think, Mametz. I would be delighted if I could get any further information about him. I have a couple of pictures of him, and have attempted to attach one, he is standing on the right. It is also a very long shot, but does anyone know how to identify his friend? I have another photo of the 2 of them standing next to a ruined barn, and I remember my mother saying that she thought that he had been killed very shortly after the picture was taken.
Many thanks.
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Whilst you didn't request color, couldn't resist.
Regards,
Morrie
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ooo nice Morrie! ;D
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Whilst you didn't request color, couldn't resist.
Regards,
Morrie
Thank you very much for that it is really good, it really brings the picture to life. When I find the other picture of the two of them next to the ruined barn. I'll know who to send it to! :)
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Apologies for not replying sooner - somehow I was missing the emails notifying me that there were new posts on this thread. I'm going to have to put this up in several posts as I've exceeded the maximum allowed length for posts.
Ord - I'm only too happy to help. I'll see if I can blow up the photo so you can see the small chap at he back to the right of the photo so you can see him better. I'll have to dig out the photo again though, so it might take me a while.
Morrie, your colour looks great , really brings them to life.
And finally for the grandson of William Miller - yes I have found your grandfather Lt. William Miller.
Lt. W. Miller is listed thus:
Commissioned from the ranks 19.9.1916. Previously served as sergeant with Battalion from Nov. 1914. Evacuated to England wounded 31.3.1918.
Amazingly enough there is not one, but two accounts of him being wounded, one in an account of operations on 4th and 5th July 1917. It is an account by Captain W. Fawcus M.C. The other mention is in an account of the defence of the Montauban Position by Lieut. E. O. Pretheroe, M.C. entitled "Backs to the Wall" This action occurred on March 25th 1918.
In the first account by Captain Fawcus it reads:
(a) Disposition of "Z" Company: -
No 13 Platoon, consisting of four N.C.O.'s and twenty six men, under 2nd Lieut. W. Miller, was supplying its own covering party with L.G., and was wiring in front of a new strong point at f. 18c 6. 9. The post was held by a party of one sergeant and ten men of the Cavalry Division with one Hotchkiss gun.
(There is mention of other platoons but I'll skip over that to the action. Also note that at this point your grandfather was a 2nd Lieut. - it has to be him as there is no other W. Miller in the ranks. Also I'm spelling Gillemoint Farm the way it is spelled in the records. Tessy)
(b) Hostile activities : -
At about 1.20am., hostile artillery and trench mortars concentrated on Gillemont Farm Post, and at the same time hostile artillery placed a barrage on all communications. The bombardment lasted about fifteen minutes, when our artillery retaliated. About 10 minutes later Gillemont Farm Post was again bombarded and the hostile barrage crept back along Gillemont Farm C.T., and settled on "D" Post.
(c) Action taken by "Z" Company working parties.: -
No 13 Platoon. When the bombardment commenced, the wiring and covering parties immediately withdrew into the strong point, according to instructions, and manned the trenches. When the hostile barrage had lifted to the rear of the post, 2nd Lieut. Miller gave orders to his men to open fire into the smoke hanging to the south of Gillemont Farm Post, and about four hundred rounds were expended. The garrison of the post also opened rifle and Hotchkiss gun fire. With the approach of dawn, when the situation appeared normal, 2nd Lieut. Miller withdrew his men, and the garrison of the post also came in. 2nd Lieut. Miller and three other ranks were slightly wounded by shell splinters, but were able to walk back to camp, whence 2nd Lieut. Miller was sent to hospital.
The report goes on describing the actions of the other platoons those two days.
I'll post that in a few minutes.
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More on Lieut. W. Miller.
As for the other account he appears in - this was at their second attendance at the Somme. It reads for 5 chapters but your grandfather left the action towards the beginning.. Suffice to say this was a major action.
March 1918 was a month of anxiety. The long advertised attack by the enemy was pending. Defence measures in the Ypres Salient had been hastened; but the actual point of attack was not known beyond the few.
In Lieut. Pretheroe's account, it describes how both companies advanced on the village of Montauban. "Z" Company ( your grandfather's) on the left and "W" Company on the right. They advanced along the Albert Combles railway line until the ruins of Montauban appeared behind a few shattered trees. The village stands on a ridge and heavy enemy machine gun fire opened up from Bernafay Wood as they topped the ridge.
In front of the village, a few men of the Third Cavalry Brigade assisted by some tank crews armed with Lewis guns were fighting desperately to hold the position. All were very tired particularly the tank crews who had been compelled to burn their tanks two days previously to save them from capture. These men had been continuously engaged with the enemy for four days. "Z" Company's line lay in an westerly direction towards Mametz Wood.
A party of the enemy, about two Battalions strong, were seen marching from Longueval to enter Mametz Wood, in full view of the 19th Battalion NF but there was no artillery in range and no machine or rifle fire could reach them. It was supposed the enemy intended to make a converging attack, southwards from Mametz Wood and westwards ffrom Trones Wood. Had this happened it would cut off the whole of the forces in this sector.
Throughout the afternoon and the evening of the 25th the enemy shelled the village of Montauban - and unfortunately one of the shells landed a direct hit on "Z" Company headquarters which was a portion of an old trench. Captain Fawcus was killed and 2nd Lieut. Miller was seriously wounded, along with 2nd Lieut. Smith M.M. The wounded had to be carried back to Maricourt.
And that must have been when your grandfather got his boat home.
The action went on until the 30th March. The 35th Division, of which the 19th Battalion were part, were thrown into a gap in the lines that had opened up after the fifth army was forced back. The 19th Battalion had a fighting strength of 420 men at the beginning of the fighting and on 30th March the strength was reduced to 180, so they took a lot of casualties in those few days. Out of the total of 240 casualties, over 20% were fatal.
However the part they took in the 2nd Battle of the Somme played a part in the defeat of the enemy 6 months later.
I hope this helps paint a picture for you, and if you find the name of the other man in the photo please let me know. I'll see if I can see him in any of the photos in the book.
One thing I'd like to add to this is that from the accounts in the history, the Fusiliers made rthe best of things and whenever they had the time or the energy they would play various games, from football to rugby to tug of war, they would arrange general sports days in the early days of the Battalion in Morpeth. And they arranged entertainments from the early days, with plays, concerts and revues, and were still having fun whenever they could in the later days of the war. Their spirit was the typical Northern mixture of hard workers mixed with humour and there are many instances of smart mouthed Privates giving lip to their superiors. And it might not be known but the 19th Battalion, NF, along with the massed troops, were presented to the King and Lord Kitchener on the Town Moor at Newcastle on 20th May 1915
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Thank you so much for your two very informative posts, you have told me more in ten minutes than my sister and I have discovered in ten years! I have tracked down a copy of the Historical record in a second-hand bookshop near here, unfortunately he wants £95 for it, and it is in very poor condition. Until I saw your original post, I was not even aware of the existence of the book.
The first reference to my grandfather being wounded must have been when he lost a finger on his left hand. He managed a few days at home after that, and it was while he was at home that he decided to take the ferry across the river at Berwick, and was presented with a white feather by a lady passenger! I remember my mother saying that the boatman threw the lady off the boat.
The second reference to his wounding ties in with the little information we had, we had heard that it was near Mametz but had no further details, and this confirms that.
It is a great shame that he died without telling people about his experiences but, like most men who had been there, he never spoke about the war to anyone and his memories died with him.
I am extremely grateful for the time and effort you have taken over this, Thank you.
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I'm only too pleased to help. My copy of the book is falling to pieces too. It's been printed on very cheap paper but after all it is 90 years old. Did the boatman throw that woman bodily off the boat or did he wait until they reached land?
One other thing I'd like to mention in relation to men sent home for commission - my Dad, who sadly is no longer with us, used to say that he could remember his father telling him that when he was sent home for a commission in 1917, one of the things they had to do was ride a horse down the steps of a very grand building. My Dad saw a TV program about Sandhurst about ten years ago and they did very thing that there, but we don't know for certain where the men selected were sent for training for their commission. Do you have any idea where your grandfather was sent for his commission?
I don't think my grandfather told his children much about the war either and I never knew him unfortunately, so anything I know came from my Dad. This book is certainly a link to his experiences in the war and I'm more than happy to look up anything for anyone who is interested, not least because I have had mountains of help from the members of RootsChat in tracing my ancestors and I'd like to do the same for other people in their searches.
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. Did the boatman throw that woman bodily off the boat or did he wait until they reached land?
Do you have any idea where your grandfather was sent for his commission?
I have always liked to think that she ended up in the water, she deserved to!
As for his commission, he was promoted "in the field" so I don't know if he returned home or not. I have heard from my mothers cousin today, and he said that my grandfather had just learnt that he was being transferred to the Coldstream Guards and promoted to captain on the day that he was wounded, also that following his injury the two strecher bearers who were taking him out were killed by another shell burst and my grandfather lay in a shell hole for two days before being rescued. It just amazes me what some people are capable of enduring; no-one had thought of post traumatic stress in those days.
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It has been so fascinating reading the posts on here about the Northumberland Fusilliers. I have recently found out my Great grandads brother died on 29th Aug 1916 during the battle of the Somme. He was in 19th Btn and buried at Bronfay Farm. I managed to print off the certificate with information on from the Commonwealth war graves commission but wondered if I could find out any more about where and how he died. His name was Paul Dixon Gibson ( P D Gibson)
thanks for any help or information
Tracey
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We are as certain as we can be that the short man on the back row right hand side is my grandfather Private Stanley Ord.
If anyone is interested, I have photographs of the graves of Private F Southern, Private G Wheatley and Private REA Mason - all buried in the VILLERS-FAUCON COMMUNAL CEMETERY.
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I've just been looking for info about my G Uncle Charles Emerson Standley who went into the 14 battalion Northumberland fusilliers on 11 December 1915. I have to comment on the amazing transformation you have done with that photo Morrie! It looks brilliant. Wish I could find one like that of my G Uncle!
Kind regards
Nicki
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A try from me, also, if Tessy is still looking she can get a free program with a softening tool called "FotoMix" which works well. Regards, John.
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This is very late but this is a blown up image of Private Stanley Ord - sorry it has taken so long Ord.
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I'm new to this forum and actually baffled how it works as I'd like to reach Ord, the person who has kindly offered a photo of a relative of mine.
I've always been puzzled that the Commonwealth War Graves Commission have no info on REA Mason who lost his life 3rd Sept 1917 in France. Full christian names are Robert Ernest Alfred born 1894 in Gateshead, son of George Steel Mason - an ancestor-uncle of mine born Craster. Mother was Ann Isabella Smailes, also from Craster, Dunster-born.
I understand that I have to post three messages before I can contact anyone directly, so I'd appreciate any help with getting the photo.
cheers,
pamela in Bermuda
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Hello,
There may be small chance of anyone seeing this, but I have just found this thread. My Great-Grandad was Sgt. George Aynsley of the 19th battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers, who enlisted June 1915 and was sent home sick from France August 1917. I have heard family rumours that he was blown up in an ambulance and left unable to speak (have found no evidence of this myself) and wondered if anyone had any information on him or how he was injured?
I found this thread because I have a photograph almost identical to the one originally posted, with a very similar background (ivy and beehives). Does anyone know anything about the origin of the photographs? Will post if interested.
Would love to hear from you.
Kind Regards,
Megan
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My Great Uncle was in the 19th and lost his life killed in action June 1918. Would love to know who was in this pic. I see the little guy in the front is so similar to my my late Dad as a young man, seen here on the left hop picking . Cant help wondering if it is Pvt Albert Victor Siebert Reg No 69605
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Hello,
I'm looking for any information regarding 15185 Harold Leivers he served in the 1st 2nd 8th and 19th battalions Northumberland Fusiliers so any help would be much appreciated
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Hi Shiz
If you tell me your Gr grandfather's name, I can look him up in the History of the 19th Batt NF book that I have - it gives details of all the casualties they suffered. I've never been to the battlefields myself but with the aid of the book I was able to plot their route through France and Belgium day by day.
Tessy
Hello,
I'm looking for any information regarding 15185 Harold Leivers he served in the 1st 2nd 8th and 19th battalions Northumberland Fusiliers so any help would be much appreciated