RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: Noells on Tuesday 02 May 06 10:53 BST (UK)
-
I think I may have just located long,lost ancestors in the 1841 census living in Heavitree.
I have William Fort and his wife Mary living in Cottage Court, Heavitree in 1841. With(presumably) sons John and William Fort living Goldsmith Place, Heavitree along with John's wife Dorothy and his son John.
Mary and William Fort had sons William,James,John and daughters Frances and Elizabeth born from 1809 onwards in Alphington, Devon.
As the ages tie in, my query is - are these places close enough for me to hope I have found my family?
Noells
-
Pretty close!
Alphington is to the west of Exeter, while Heavitree is near the centre of the modern conurbation.
Try putting the place names into Getamap
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/getamap/
Remember that ages in 1841 were rounded down to the nearest five, but if all the other details fit (occupations?) it could well be a match.
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
-
Depends how close you think is close! I wouldn't regard them as being close today (as in, they are not adjoining parishes), and in 1841 I think they'd have been even further apart. Alphington is west of the River Exe - not sure how many bridges or ferries there would have been.
The main city of Exeter was east of the Exe, and Heavitree was a completely separate settlement south of Exeter and well away from the river.
-
This 1835 map will show you.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~genmaps/genfiles/COU_files/ENG/DEV/creighton_exeter_1835.html
Alphington is in the bottom left, Heavitree centre right.
If the ages and names are right, I'd claim them as mine!
-
thanks all.
The 1835 map really puts this into perspective for me. The map scale (I think) means that these two places are only about 2-3 miles apart.
A very short distance when judged on the scale of things here in Oz, but I take your point on crossing the river.
The dates certainly tie in with my Fort lot, but their only occupations are labourers, so not much to give me a lead there.
These discoveries on the 1841 census have been the closest I have come to breaking down this brick wall, but I will try to contain my excitement see if I can somehow prove it with more certainty.
All your help is really appreciated.
Noells
-
Alphington is about two or three miles across the river valley from Heavitree.
It was once an important staging post for coaches (Horse drawn ones) going south from Exeter to places like Torquay and Dartmouth.
For centuries there was just one bridge crossing the river at St Thomas now there are two and the motorway, which dont count!.
I live in Alphington and have photos of the church and the village green .
-
What a lovely surprise. :) Thank you so much for the photographs of Alphington church and village green.
The birth details for my ancestor James Fort born 1814 in Alphington, parents William Fort and Mary, came from the IGI online records. The film is entitled Church of England, Parish Church of Alphington, Devonshire. parish registers 1603 - 1837. All their children were born in Alphington from 1809 and are shown on this film. I did order in the film some years ago and double checked the details. I discovered that one child Francis b 5/1/1817 died 23/7/1818 but there were no further Fort births or deaths on that film.
The reason I am giving you all this detail is to ask you if the church photo you have sent me would be likely to be the church in which the children were all christened?
I have already saved the photos into my computer and am delighted to have them to insert into my family tree program.My husband( who is not into genealogy) just said how great it was to have pictures and not just words in a family tree. Without help from folks like you it is a bit difficult from over here in Oz when all the ancestors are from the other side of the world.
I am really delighted that you have gone to this trouble for me.
-
Im so pleased your pleased!
The images are of the village church. I think its St Micheals and all Angels but Im not certain without peering at the board. I m going for a walk in that direction later so I will check. Its the only church in the village apart from a Methodist Chapel. The records are in Exeter RO.
I agree with your husband , images do help round the information out... I have all sorts of house pictures culled from estate agents in the areas Im searching and by googling an address!
I dont have a car but if you have other places or local addresses that you'd like photos of and I can get to them, Id be happy to take pictures for you! Its exercise! and digital cameras are a wonderful resource. Anyway photography is my obsession!
I wonder if there might be gravestones in the little churchyard? I can do easily take a look! Unfortunately the church itself is usually locked up so Ive never been inside .
regards
foxy
-
Hello All
What wonderful pictures - many thanks for posting them.
When I first saw the heading I thought the post said
"Is Alphington close to Heaven" & then I started seeing pictures of churches and began to wonder about my sanity :) :)
Meanwhile - if you haven't seen the program parloc Noells - it is worth getting. It's free - and very useful for determining what parishes are where & what is nearby.
http://www.parloc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/parlocdl.html
According to the program Heavitree is 2.6 miles NE from Alphington.
Trish
-
It is St Michael and All Angels. About ten years ago they had a major fire there so the interior is restored but I think it is a medaeval foundation although the Victorians spent a lot of time and money messing around and rebuilding so do not know if this is one of the messed around ones!
This is the limited entry on the Diocesan web site
http://exeter.anglican.org/parishstaff.php?parid=73
so you could ask who the parish historian is by contacting one of the clergy.
And one cottage is reported to be a cottage associated with Charles Dickens' aunt
-
I had a wander round the churchyard and could see no Fort headstones. Lack of headstones doesnt indicate they arent there , just a lack of money maybe?
I took a photos of the churchyard if you're into such things.
-
Hi All
Thanks again for the continuing help. And a special thanks Foxy for the new photos, they are great. I keep meaning to get a digital camera.
The Fort family were in Heavitree for the 1841 census,and as Francis died at about 18 months of age I can understand why no tombstones in Alphington. Also they were Ag Labs so probably also no money ???
I checked out the Diocesan web site and have emailed the Reverend at Alphington. I'll let you all know his response if and when I get one.
Should have thought of Parloc originally, Trish, but Rootschatters sorted me out on that one also.
By the way Foxy, I forgot to ask if I can please use your photos in my Tree? I do not intend to publish for money, only for the family members. And would you like your real name acknowledged on them?
Noells
-
Use of photos. Yes of course, as long as theres no money involved!
Do you have any addresses for Heavitree? I could try and find them. The old churches there are easy I can photograph them too if you want.
Heavitree was apparantly so called because it was an ancient place of execution/ hanging , up until 1531 , so several hundred years before your ancestors. a Cheering little thought
An Excellent good guide to the whole of the Exeter area , with lots of history , is this boozers one
http://www.exeterbeerglass.com/fmatindex.htm
-
Hi all
I have just had a very nice email back from the current Minister at St .Michael & All Angels church in Alphington.
He says that it is entirely likely that his Church is the one in which my ancestors were christened, but they do not do any research there and has referred me to the Devon Records Office.
I think possibly I may not have explained myself in that I did not want any lookups of christenings, only that I wanted to know if that building was the Church of England back in 1808.
I will now email the Devon records office and see what happens.
Foxy - thanks for your very kind offer to take photographs in Heavitree for me. I got the address for the Fort families from the 1841 Census on Ancestry.com, but have only written down Cottage Court and Goldsmith Place - not any street numbers. ::) I will go to my local genealogical society this weekend and check it out again and get back to you.
Noells
-
the church is certainly Cof E now and I doubt very much if it would have changed denomination since I800's. Probably not since the Reformation in 1520's . Will go and look in the West Country Studies Library.
I'll have a little rummage in the files and see if I can make that a certainty
I will also see what I can find out about the places you mentioned in Heavitree.
Look forward to hearing from you
regards
Annie
-
Hi Annie
Trish has very kindly had a look at the 1841 census for me and has let me know that there are no street numbers in that census.
So there will be no point in my taking you up on your generous offer to take a photo of their houses for me in Heavitree, as we don't know exactly which ones they were. However I do look forward to hearing what you come up with in the West Country Studies library. I hope this is not too far for you to travel without a car?
thanks again
Noelene
-
Never mind . You never know what old map of the area might turn up, if I can find one!!
I love a good hunt! I know its called research but to me its like being a detective , and its something Im quite good at! You never know what might be hidden away somewhere!
I put the following notes together for you, its nothing much but the links might be useful.
I will be going to the West Country Library tomorrow so Ill get back to you after that if I find anything useful!
PS You dont have a time machine handy do you???
regards
Annie
1740- 1840 was the Georgian period followed by Regency Period which including the Industrial Revolution, War with France,the Battle of Trafalgar and Wellingtons Victory at Battle of Waterloo. It was a time of upheaval and great change with machinery replacing men which resulted great hardships with high prices and low wages partcularly in the countryside. This resulted in considerable migration to America, Canada, Australia and in 1820 South Africa.
Some websites that might assist you.
http://www.devon.gov.uk/localstudies
http://www.exetermemories.co.uk/EM/Streets_and_areas.html
http://www.exeterhistorysociety.co.uk/Events.html
http://www.exeter.gov.uk/timetrail/11_lategeorgian/growth.asp
GENuki
Parish Registers going back to 1556 are held in the Devon Record Office - for details see Parish Registers in the Devon Record Office.
Transcripts of the Parish Registers going back to 1555 are held in a special collection in the Westcountry Studies Library - for details see Parish Registers in the Devon & Cornwall Record Society's Collection.
http://www.devon.gov.uk/etched?url=etched/ixbin/hixclient.exe&_IXP_=1&_IXR=100223#X
ALPHINGTON, [From White's Devonshire Directory (1850)]
a neat and pleasant village on the western side of the river Exe, 1½ mile S. of Exeter, has in its parish 1286 inhabitants, and about 2700 acres of fertile land, traversed by the South Devon Railway and Exeter Ship canal. It has cattle fairs on the first Wednesday after the 20th of June, and on the Wednesday after Michaelmasday.
It was one of the principal quarters of Sir Thos. Fairfax's army, when he was blockading Exeter, in 1646. The Earl of Devon owns most of the soil, and is lord of the manor of Alphington, which was obtained by his family in the reign of Richard II., in exchange, from the Seagraves.
Matford, formerly a seat of the Smith and other families, belongs to Sir L.V. Palk, and several smaller proprietors have estates and neat houses here.
On July 2nd, 1760, by the sudden inundation of the rivulet which runs through the village to the Exe, upwards of 20 houses are said to have been thrown down, and the damage was computed at upwards of £1000.
The Church, (St. Michael,) is a large antique fabric, with a tower and eight bells."
The Church of St Michaels and All Angels is the centre-piece of Alphington Village and as such has always figured highly in the history of the village. The first mention of the dedication to St Michael can be traced back 1200 years. The present building dates from around 1480.
=======================================
HEAVITREE
"HEAVITREE PARISH, On the eastern side of Exeter, and partly within the parliamentary boundary of the city, contains 3469A. of land, and 3048 inhabitants.
It comprises the Artillery Barracks, Regent Park, Baring Crescent, Polesloe, Richmond Grove, Mont le Grand, Bicton Place, and other eastern suburbs of the city, and the small villages of EAST and SOUTH WONFORD, and WHIPTON, at the distance of from one to two miles.
The village of Heavitree, one mile E. of Exeter, has many neat houses, and is said to have derived its name from having been formerly the place of execution for the city. The manor of Wonford, which anciently gave name to this parish, and still gives name to the hundred, was part of the demesne of the crown in the reign of Edward the Confessor. . . .
Sir Thomas Baring is now lord of this manor, but a great part of the parish belongs to other proprietors. Lord Poltimore is lord of the manor of Wippen or Whipton, which has been held for a long period by his family - the Bampfyldes.
St. Loyes is the pleasant seat and property of Pitman Jones, Esq., and near it is the decayed chapel of St. Eliguis, or St. Loyes, which has long been used as a stable. South Wonford House belongs to Francis Spicer, Esq., and Ringwell Manor to Genl. Sir D. Ximenes. . . .
The PARISH CHURCH, dedicated to St. Michael, was rebuilt in 1845-'6, at the cost of about £3000, raised by subscription, and a grant of £500 from the Church Building Society. It was consecrated Aug. 1st, 1846, and is a neat structure of mixed architecture, with a tower of four bells. . . . The Rev. A. Atherley, M.A., is the incumbent, and has a good residence, and six acres of glebe.
-
St Michaels & All Angels was built in 1842, originally as a Roman Catholic Church. After the reformation, post Henry VIII creating the anglican church, became an Anglican church (CofE)
Merry Christmas
Spark
-
Spark
The Reformation was way before 1842 - so I think the info you give is misleading. Yes post Reformation many RC churches transformed into C of England churches.
Its dedication is beleived to be pre Reformation but the church that stands on the site may be that vintage and/or restored/rebuilt during Victorian times.....
-
correction due to fat fingers 1482 built.
Apologies
Spark