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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: EddieW on Wednesday 26 April 06 17:10 BST (UK)
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Hi
Can anyone help please.
Looking for the marriage of Thomas Smith & Elizabeth ? about 1788 which should be in Winterton.
Thomas was born in Winterton and all their children also born in Winterton, the first child in 1790.
Cheers
EddieW :)
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Closest fit seems to be Thomas Smith - Elizabeth STORRY (IGI)or HORRY (Manlake deanery marriages) 13/5/1784 in Winteringham. IGI doesn't then show any Winteringham baptisms to this couple.
Storey is a fairly common name in far north Lincs villages, Horry is very uncommon , except in south Lincs.
John
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Hi John
Thanks for the reply.
I have seen that marriage in the IGI and that is the closest as you say but it has always seemed to long from 1784 to 1790 to have children. It's a pity at least one of the children's registration doesn't show a mothers surname.
I read in a Genealogy magazine that some people from North Lincolnshire sometimes married in Yorkshire.
There is a marriage in Yorkshire in 1788 at Howden which is close to Lincolnshire, Thomas Smith and Elizabeth Jackson. I haven't found any children registered in the IGI to this marriage.
I wonder if anyone has access to parish records for Howden to see if this Thomas Smith was from out of the county.
Cheers
EddieW :)
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Eddie,
I've had four lots of g grandparents go off to Yorks to marry, for no apparent reason, and not always to Hull (Hull would be understandable as the nearest city).
Suggest you look at Elizabeth Jacksons in N Lincs ( one in Winteringham, b 1766) and hope there are some unusual christian names.
John
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No closer yet, the Elizabeth you mentioned from Winteringham has a father William and a child was called William but then there was a marriage of an Elizabeth Jackson to Francis Rewell in Winterton on 9 Dec 1788 so that may be the Elizabeth from Winteringham.
There was a Betty Jackson born 15 May 1770 at Howden with a father Richard but no children Richard in Smith family.
No Thomas smith born in Howden around that time either.
This is from IGI which isn't perfect and doesn't have everything but this brick wall may fall one day.
Eddie
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I descend from Thomas and Elizabeth Smith of Winterton Lincs and have been stuck with this brick wall for twenty years!
Also have distant relatives in Australia trying to sort it out.
Thomas and Elizabeth's first child William died in 1792 in Winterton aged 5. He must have been born circa 1787 and the marriage would be around 1786.
Would love to hear from anyone else working on this.
jackiewright
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Several of this family were deported to Australia!
jackiewright
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Also should add that the couple marrying at Winteringham 1784 seemed to have moved to South Ferriby.
jackiewright
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Hi Jackie
Good to hear from you, Thomas is also my wife's three gr gransfather and would be glad to trade info with you
Haven't looked at this family for a while so will have to check on my notes to refresh my memory
The marriage is the hard part, I have a William chr 1794 and died 1806 in my family, the first i have is Jno(John) 14 Nov 1790
If the Winterton people moved to South Ferriby in 1784 i doubt if they are the right people as i have children born in Winterton as late as 1808
Border is one child chr 17 Jan 1807 in Winterton and he married Fanny Hudson in 1826 at Winterton, his is the only family with children i have but interestingly he has no child Elizabeth only a Mary
Three of the children were convicts, Joseph, John and Thomas
There was a sister Neale mentioned at the trial of John and Thomas
Joseph was mentioned as being from Barton St Peter but will have to go through my notes to find were i got this
At the moment i have ten children to Thomas and Elizabeth
PM me your email address, it will be easier to contact
EddieW
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Brilliant to hear from you!
I have lots to share and if I can work out this system shall PM my details today :-*
Jackiewright
I descend from Border's sister Maria.
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Also should add that the couple marrying at Winteringham 1784 seemed to have moved to South Ferriby.
That seems quite possible - it was stated as the home parish of Thomas when he married :)
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Marriages--with-banns/631273.record?ImageId=144906&pt=T
Elizabeth's name could well be STORRY :)
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If you look at the parish entry for Winteringham marriages 1784 it is Storry. The lettering S matches the style of the era.
However, I am not sure that the Thomas Smith of SF who married at Winteringham IS the Thomas who originated in and lived in Winterton.
There was another Thomas Smith, a tailor, who lived at SF and who had several children there starting from 1785.
He died aged around 82 in 1841 at South Ferriby.
jackewright
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Hello,just come across this post and i think it may involve my family,my great great great grandad was Border smith married to Fanny Hudson living in or around Winterton he was an agricultural labourer and later farmed 80 acres for himself,he had around 7 children including Robert who was the father of my great grandfather Arther Thomas,who i am trying to research, what i know of him so far is that he went out to Egypt around 1900 with his wife Mary Elizabeth Metcalf, he worked on the railway as a superintendant and was DE ca pitated in 1918 during an uprising protesting about English occupancy,any further info you may have about any of the family would be of great interest to me
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I descend from Border's sister Maria- or Hannah Maria.
I have details of their parents and further back for their father only.
I cannot find the wedding!
JackieWright
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I see,thank you for that, do you have any thing else?
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Of the Smith sons - three were deported to Australia for theft!
Two for stealing bacon hams and taking them to Hull to sell.
One of the sons Joseph has descendants living in Australia and I have been in touch.
Parents were Thomas and Elizabeth Smith.
Thomas was born in Winterton to John Smith and Ann Border - hence Border's name.
I can send you more if you so wish.
JackieWright
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yes thank you,i would be happy to have anything that you can help me with
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Address?
JackieWright
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Sorry could you PM me?
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Hi
Has anyone got any closer to the marriage of Thomas Smith and Elizabeth around Winterton about 1876 yet
I would be interested to know who you have for children to Border and Fanny, chaplins as i have 11 children penciled in to them at the moment
EddieW :)
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No cannot find the marriage of Thomas and Elizabeth circa 1786 plus.
I do know they had a child William who was baptised at Burton on Stather in 1787 and who died at Winterton at the age of 4 in 1792 and wonder if Burton is a link. Some of the Burton Register is very hard to work out.
JackieWright
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Hi have been looking into my gr. grandfather Arthur Thomas, son of Robert and grandson of Border ,can count seven children to Border at the moment, would be interested in anything you may have on the family,what is your connection?
Geoff
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I have Border's children as:
Thomas 1829, Mary, John, William, Robert, Richard, Joseph, Esther, James and Charlotte 1850.
I would need to re-check the register for dates of baptisms.
JackieWright
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The connection is actually my wife's through Joseph the third one to be transported to NSW in 1825, at his trial he was Joseph of Barton St Peter
Another interesting thing was at John and Thomas's trial there was a sister mentioned, NEALE who lived at Barton but cannot find her
Children for Border and Fanny (married 15 May 1826 Winterton), Joseph Chr 26 Aug 1827 Dth 12 Feb 1829, Thomas 30 Aug 1829, Mary 1830, John 12 Jan 1834, William 27 Oct 1835, Robert 24 Dec 1837, Richard 24 May 1840, Joseph 4 Apr 1842, Esther 14 Apr 1844, James 15 Jun 1846, Charlotte19 Aug 1849.
Please correct if you think i have any of them wrong.
Also notice that the mothers name Elizabeth does not appear very often in the family's, there is a Betsey in Josephs Australian family and a Ethel Elizabeth in his son Thomas's family.
The first female name to come up most of the time is Mary, did no one like their mother
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The daughter Maria my gt gt gt grandmother had a daughter Elizabeth and a son Thomas.
Jackie
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There is no sign of a Neale anywhere in the Winterton records.
Jackie
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Did think of Neale being a nickname but it would not fit any of the three sisters Diana, Mary or Hannah Maria, and the only one i know who married into the family was Fanny so don't know who it could be.
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Does it def say sister?
JackieWright
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Hello, cannot compete with you two,obviously you have been doing the research much longer than me,what where the crimes of the three that were deported,i have been looking into Robert and his son Arthur Thomas my gr grandad simply besause of the interesting story of his death in Egypt, do you know about any of that.
Geoff
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No nothing I am afraid. I get the feeling that they were an interesting family though!
I have been working on them since the 70's! Still cannot work out where the marriage of Thomas and Elizabeth was - if they married of course.
Jackie
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From Lincolnshire County Counsil, Lincolnshire Convicts Transported
Smith, John of Winterton
Occupation, Labourer Age 22
Crime, breaking into the granary of Robert Everatt farmer of Saxby and stealing 4 bacon hams and 2 hempen sacks
Place of crime, Saxby
Court, Lindsey Quarter Sesions, Trial date 17/07/1818
Sentence, 7 years, Transportation date 1819, Ship, Baring, Destination NSW
Sources used, Trial documents
Other remarks, Pleaded guilty, his brother Thomas Smith 20 pleaded not guilty to the crime but received the same sentence. Their brother Joseph Smith of Barton on Humber aged 18 gave evidence against them, and the trial evidence also mentioned a sister Neale who lived at Barton. The brothers sold the hams in Hull.
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Thanks for that.
No Neale though!
JackieWright
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Thank you for that information, was the third brother that gave evidence against them also transported and if so what was his roll in the theft if any?
Geoff
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No idea but he was deported a few years later for stealing from a shop in Barton! I have had details from his descendant in Australia.
Jackie
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Ref Smiths of Winterton
I think I have found the sister named Neale at the trial.
Ann Smith m Edward Neale at Winterton 15th Dec 1812.
This seems to be a surname not a christian name. I have not found her baptism yet which was circa 1790.
JackieWright
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Have found it!
Thomas Smith 22 of Winterton
m by licence
Elizabeth Carviss 21 of Hull
12 Dec 1786 - licence granted.
It only took me 30 years to trace this!!
JackieWright