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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: pierce-brosnan on Saturday 22 April 06 18:50 BST (UK)

Title: My 10 year brick wall :O(
Post by: pierce-brosnan on Saturday 22 April 06 18:50 BST (UK)

Hi there,

My husbands 3 x great grandfather James HOPWOOD was born in Wales according to all the census returns I have but please could someone tell me where abouts in Wales it is?

1861 Census
Bollington Road, Ashton-under-Lyne
James Hopwood - Head - Mar - 49 - Iron Turner - Wales
Elizabeth Hopwood - Wife - Mar - 54 - Liverpool
Ellis Hopwood - Son - Um - 27 - Self Actor Minder - Ashton-under-Lyne
Mary Ann Hopwood - Um - Daur - 24 - Cotton Trim & Test - Ashton-under-Lyne
John Hopwood - Son - Um - 20 - Piecer Cotton - Ashton-under-Lyne
Sarah Jane Hopwood - Um - Daur - 16 - Dressmaker - Ashton-under-Lyne

 
1871 Census
7 Bollington Road, Ashton-under-Lyne
James Hopwood - Head - Mar - 59 - Corporation Labourer  - Llanwithalow Wales
Elizabeth Hopwood - Wife - Mar - 64 - Liverpool
Mary Ann Herbert  - Mar - Daur - 36 - Dressmaker  - Ashton-under-Lyne
Eliza A Herbert - Gdaur - Um - 11 - Scholar - Ashton-under-Lyne
Sarah Higgingbottom - Daur - Mar - 26 - Hat Trimmer - Ashton-under-Lyne
Joe W Higgingbottom - SinL - Mar - 26 - Police Constable - Glossop
James W Higgingbottom - Gson - 1 - Ashton-under-Lyne

 
1881 Census
Margaret Street, Cromwell Terrace, Ashton-under-Lyne
Joe W Higgingbottom - Head - Mar - 36 - Policeman - Padfield, Derbyshire
Sarah Higgingbottom - Wife - Mar - 36 - Housekeeper - Ashton-under-Lyne
John Higgingbottom - Son - 9 - Scholar - Ashton-under-Lyne
Harry Higgingbottom - Son - 3 - Scholar - Ashton-under-Lyne
James A Higgingbottom - Son - 1 - Ashton-under-Lyne
Elizabeth Higgingbottom - Daur - 3 months - Ashton-under-Lyne
James Hopwood - FinL - Wid - 70 - Scavenger  - Llangwtho Wales

Gratefull for any suggestions - thank you Vanda

Title: Re: My 10 year brick wall :O(
Post by: RJ_Paton on Saturday 22 April 06 18:54 BST (UK)

Could it have been Llangeitho

Quote

Llangeitho is a village and community in Ceredigion.

It is primarily associated with the name of Daniel Rowland and the Welsh Methodist revival of the eighteenth century. It witnessed many periods of revival throughout that century, but the most powerful was that of 1762. William Williams Pantycelyn wrote in defence of the rejoicing, dancing and jumping for joy, seen during the 1762 revival. Welsh Methodists earned the name 'Jumpers' as a result.

from Wikipedia

Although i have to admit to my own brick wall in Wales (albeit in my wife's tree  ;D )

Title: Re: My 10 year brick wall :O(
Post by: pierce-brosnan on Saturday 22 April 06 19:12 BST (UK)

Thank you very much for that - it is appreciated :O)

Title: Re: My 10 year brick wall :O(
Post by: welsh lady on Tuesday 25 April 06 21:50 BST (UK)

Hi tried to find your family in 1851 but couldnt to see what birthplace it had down for James.However did find them in 1841 doesnt help with birthplace but mentions two other children.Moss Side,Ashton Town,Ashton Under Lyne,Lancs.James Hopwood/29/Rover?Cotton/N/Elizabeth Hopwood/34/Y/Ellis Hopwood/8/Y/Martha Hopwood/6/Y/Mary Hopwood/4/Y/William Hopwood/2/Y/John Hopwood/1/Y/.Best Wishes Welsh Lady

Title: Re: My 10 year brick wall :O(
Post by: tony h on Tuesday 25 April 06 22:07 BST (UK)

Hi

The following link is to all the place names in Wales beginning with L.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/geogdata/ngw/l.htm

I think the key to this interpreting the pronunciation. The enumerator will have written what they heard so the g's w's and t's may not be what they seem. I seem to remember something pronounced like that on many camping trips to north wales when i was younger. I'll keep digging

Best wishes
Tony

Title: Re: My 10 year brick wall :O(
Post by: pierce-brosnan on Tuesday 25 April 06 22:30 BST (UK)

Quote from: welsh lady on Tuesday 25 April 06 21:50 BST (UK)

Hi tried to find your family in 1851 but couldn't to see what birthplace it had down for James.However did find them in 1841 doesn't help with birthplace but mentions two other children.Moss Side,Ashton Town,Ashton Under Lyne,Lancs.James Hopwood/29/Rover?Cotton/N/Elizabeth Hopwood/34/Y/Ellis Hopwood/8/Y/Martha Hopwood/6/Y/Mary Hopwood/4/Y/William Hopwood/2/Y/John Hopwood/1/Y/.Best Wishes Welsh Lady

Thank you  ;D I really appreciate your help.
I didn't include the 1841 census info as all it says is that he wasn't born in Lancashire.  Thank you too for looking for them in 1851.  I couldn't find them either but someone has told me one of the places they had trouble with the 1851 census was Ashton.  There was a lot of water damage and allthough there are some returns that have been salvaged it looks as though my Hopwood ancestors weren't one of the lucky ones. 

Thank you again Vanda

Title: Re: My 10 year brick wall :O(
Post by: pierce-brosnan on Tuesday 25 April 06 22:31 BST (UK)

Quote from: tony h on Tuesday 25 April 06 22:07 BST (UK)

Hi

The following link is to all the place names in Wales beginning with L.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/geogdata/ngw/l.htm

I think the key to this interpreting the pronunciation. The enumerator will have written what they heard so the g's w's and t's may not be what they seem. I seem to remember something pronounced like that on many camping trips to north wales when i was younger. I'll keep digging

Best wishes
Tony

Thank you Tony, I really appreciate your help.  I'll have a look at the web site - thanks  ;D

Best wishes Vanda

Title: Re: My 10 year brick wall :O(
Post by: tony h on Tuesday 25 April 06 22:55 BST (UK)

Hi Vanda
Can't resist a challenge :) i've managed to cut and paste the place names into a spreadsheet so i can start deleting the obvious no-no's and see what we're left with. I rather fancy that 'th' as being 'dd'. i'll get back to you soon.

Best wishes
Tony

Title: Re: My 10 year brick wall :O(
Post by: tony h on Tuesday 25 April 06 23:43 BST (UK)

Hi Vanda
 These are the only ones that seem to fit the bill (but don't take my word for it, wouldnt want you going down the wrong track - keep an open mind :))

Llanallgo                        SH5085  Anglesey 
                                                                                                                 
Llanddewi                        SS4689  Glamorgan
                                                                                                     
Llanddwywe                       SH5822  Merioneth
                                                                                     
Llandeglau                       SO1362  Radnorshire 
                                                                                                     
Llandeilo                        SN6222  Carmarthenshire
                                                                                                     
Llandevaud                       ST4090  Monmouthshire
                                                                                                                             
Llandilo                         SN1027  Pembrokeshire
                                                                                                                     
Lland-lwy                        SM8526  Pembrokeshire
                                                                                                       
Llandrillo                       SJ0337  Merioneth
                                                                                                           
Llandudwg                        SS8578  Glamorgan
                                                                                                                         
Llangeitho                       SN6159  Cardiganshire
                                                                           
Llanelieu                        SO1834  Brecknockshire
                                                                                                                       
Llaneuddog                       SH4688  Anglesey 
                                                                                                                                   
Llangwyryddon                    SN5970  Cardiganshire
                                                                                                                     
Llanwyddelan                     SJ0801  Montgomeryshire
                                                                                                                                 
Falkryn's Llangeitho look's favourite but some of the others are in with a chance, particularly the Anglesey ones. If any Welsh speakers could eliminate the rest on pronunciation compared to the enumerators phonetics we might narrow the search, might be worth a request to the welsh speakers site.

Cheers
Tony

Title: Re: My 10 year brick wall :O(
Post by: pierce-brosnan on Wednesday 26 April 06 11:03 BST (UK)

Wow Tony,

Thanks for all your hard work.  I will keep an open mind as you say and see what comes up.  If I find anything I'll let you know  ;D

Thanks & best wishes Vanda

Title: Re: My 10 year brick wall :O(
Post by: Chasing-fireflies on Wednesday 26 April 06 11:33 BST (UK)

Obviously some English person or non welsh person has written the pronounced 'ydd' as 'with' so i would say you need to be looking at something like that.
Llanwyddelan sounds a good match but i would say there are probably plenty more welsh places that fit the bill for this one.
Could it actually be a mis pronunciation of Llandudno or llangeitho(as Falkryn pointed out)?
 ;)

Title: Re: My 10 year brick wall :O(
Post by: pierce-brosnan on Wednesday 26 April 06 16:36 BST (UK)

Thanks bad girl  ;D