RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Glenpenny on Monday 10 April 06 18:48 BST (UK)
-
I'm trying to get a birth certificate for my g.grandmother, Dorothy Jackson, but can't find a birth registration for her. I've tried both freebmd and 1837 online. According to the censuses I've found her on - after her marriage to Arthur Catlow - she was born 1860 in either Rawtenstall or Blackburn (depending on which census). I have already sent for one certificate (Blackburn 1859 Dec. qtr) but the mother's name is not right.
I have her parents' marriage certificate dated 2nd September 1850 when both were living in Gorton and they were Henry Jackson aged 24 and Ann Bridget Kelly aged 23 but have not found them on any census apart from a possible widowed Bridget Jackson in 1861 and 1881 but her age is wrong.
Dorothy and Arthur Catlow were living in Blackburn when they married in 1879, in Haborgham Eaves, Burnley in 1881 and were back in Blackburn in 1891. I've not found them on the 1901 either.
Any suggestions where I can go from here would be appreciated.
-
What information do you have that makes you sure that the mother is Ann Bridget Kelly? I'd suggest trying to find Dorothy in 1871 and 1861, particularly 1861 as sometimes with young children the ages are given more accurately with months which would really help.
-
This is the only Dorothy JACKSON of the right age (+/- 2 years) born Lancashire in the 1861 census:
RG9/3102/56/46
Henry JACKSON H M 33 - engineer - Lancaster
Ellen W M 33 - ditto
Robt? son 13 - creeler - ditto
Mary Ellen dau 11 - tenter - Blackburn
Isabella dau 9 - scholar - ditto
Henry son 7 - ditto - ditto
John son 3 - ditto
Dorothy dau 1 - ditto
Address: 2 Havelock St, Blackburn, Lancashire
I wonder if that corresponds with the cert you bought?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
-
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
-
Thank you all for having a go.
Jorose - My mum often referred to her "G.Grandma Kelly", that's why I think the Jackson/Kelly wedding certificate is the right one. I can't find Dorothy on any census until 1881, by which she time she was married with a son.
Arranroots - this was the Dorothy whose birth certificate I sent for. I'd also found this 1871 entry but I really don't think its her because of the mother's name.
Jacdee - I think the 1871 Henry C Jackson is the same one as Arranroots found in 1861. I've also seen the Bridget Jackson boarding with the Valentines. The enumerator hasn't filled in the marital status of people in that particular household, although the age is right but if it is her, where are her husband and family?
-
What was Dorothy's father's occupation on her marriage certificate? The address on the marriage certificate and the names of the witnesses might also help.
-
You might also consider a second marriage - maybe Grandma Kelly was the one that was remembered, but not the birth mother?
A ;)
-
Hello again. I've dug out the "wrong" birth certificate for Dorothy. The mother's name is given as Ellen Jackson formerly Caley. Do you think I might have been barking up the wrong Kelly tree all the time?
-
Been having another look at Dorothy's marriage certificate as well. Father is given as Henry Jackson, engine tenter. This is also the occupation given for the father on the "wrong" birth certificate. On the Jackson/Kelly marriage certificate the husband's occupation is given as "labourer".
I have a small piece of card which I found in mum's display cabinet when she died. Amongst other bits it says," 1 large and 1 small pair of brass candlesticks belonged to my Great Grandma Kelly". Looks as though my mum might have been spelling Caley as Kelly all these years.
Would you agree?
Glenys
-
Maybe this clarifies things a little?
Note that both Henry & Ellen are married. Are any of these addresses significant (on marriage cert fro Dorothy perhaps?)
RG10/4153/108/16 & 17
Address: Spring Gardens, Padiham, Lancashire
Isabella JACKSON H U 21 - winder cotton - Blackburn
Ellen mother M 42 - housekeeper - Lancaster
Henry brother U 17 - twister cotton - Blackburn
John brother 13 - spinner cotton - ditto
Lawrance brother 9 - ditto - ditto
William brother 7 - scholar - ditto
Walter brother - 4 - ditto - ditto
RG10/4210/131/7
Henry C JACKSON H M 41 - engine driver 9 cotton mill) - Lancaster
Doothery? dau 11 - cardroom hand (ditto) - Blackburn
Levi SHARKSTON? boarder M 33 - engine driver (ditto) - Padston
Address: 16 Fish St, Preston, Lancashire
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
-
This family are reunited in 1881 at 118 Mawdesley St, Blackburn - will look for 1891 to see where they went.
A ;)
-
1891 census
RG12/3398/28/2
Henry C JACKSON H M 62 - stationery (sic) engine driver - Lancaster
Ellen W M 52 - wife ho?? - Clitheroe (!)
Isabella WOOD dau U 32 - servant - ditto
Laurence JACKSON son Wid 28 - painter - Blackburn
Herbert gson 4 - scholar - ditto
Edward WILKINSON boarder U 25 - slaters labourer - Churchtown Lancashire
Annie COWBURN gdau 5 - Blackburn
Address: 16 Greaves St, Blackburn, Lancashire
Not sure why Isabella and Ellen are suddenly from Clitheroe? Isabella def says "single" but she has changed her surname?!?
A ;)
-
Hello Arranroots. Thanks for all your efforts so far. It really is appreciated.
The ages of the Ellen Jackson in 1871 (42) and in 1891 (52) and change of birthplace, would seem to indicate that Henry remarried. Perhaps the Isabella WOOD, unmarried daughter, is a different Isabella to the one in the earlier census and is the daughter of the new Ellen. I'll try looking for a Jackson/Wood marriage. also an earlier Jackson/Caley one.
The addresses in Padiham and Preston mean absolutely nothing to me. Dorothy's marriage certificate (1879) gives an address for her of 33 Eccles Street, Blackburn.
The whole thing is a real muddle isn't it? And I thought my only problem was finding a birth for Dorothy! ::)
-
Have found marriage of Henry Jackson and Ellen Caley, Lancaster, Sept qtr 1847 and Henry Coupland Jackson to Ellen Wood, Blackburn, June qtr 1875.
So that's sorted that little bit out. But are they mine????? Have I really been barking up the wrong tree for the last few years?
Glenys
-
Hello again Glenys
Are they yours? Who can say? ;D I don't suppose the name Coupland comes up anywhere else in your family?
I was hoping some of the names would ring a bell. You are right about the discrepancies in the Ellen/Isabella info - The original Issabella was born about 6 years earlier than the second one. Funny the census in 1871 has them all as JACKSON as they had not yet remarried?
I have had a good look for them all in 1901 without success - very frustrating! Which children did Dorothy have? Maybe we can find them & hence the rest of the family - no sign of James or Lilly though.
Can't help thinking the CALEY/ KELLY thing is a good explanation - fingers crossed!
A ;)
-
No Couplands that I know of. Dorothy had only three children so far as I'm aware. James, Lilly and Bowker (great name that isn't it - came from the Catlow side) but the only Bowker Catlow I've found in 1901 was one of his uncles.
Lilly did name her eldest son Walter but that could be just coincidence. Her other children were Cissie, Dorothy, Arthur and Allan. Bowker didn't have any and the only one I know of for James was another Lily. So no clues there.
This is soooo frustrating! I've had great success with other branches but this just defeats me.
:-\ :'(
-
This should be Bowker jrs birth
Bowker CATLOW Jun 1892 Blackburn (vol 8e/ page 424)
So where are they??
I take it they didn't emigrate? even to Wales?
A ;)
-
Hello again.
I must admit I haven't tried the 1901 in Wales or Scotland. Maybe I should. I've been hung up on an Irish connection because of Ann Bridget Kelly and her father, Patrick.
Also I do know that Dorothy and Arthur Catlow were definitely in Dublin at some time because I have a business card for them. They were oat cake bakers. Why on earth would they move there if not a family connection?
However, I've found them in Lytham in 1895 and 1898 and Blackpool in 1904 in trade directories. They certainly got around.
Another Rootschatter checked the 1901 Irish census for me. Not there.
-
Just an update- they don't seem to be on the 1901 for Wales or Scotland either.
>:(