RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Berwickshire => Topic started by: CarolBurns on Sunday 09 April 06 19:07 BST (UK)
-
Does anyone have any links to the Horsburghs?
The main one for our tree is Jane Horsburgh born 1851 in Berwick. She is the daughter of Alexander Horsburgh b 1816 Tyninghame, East Lothian and Elizabeth Blackhall b 1819 Oldhamstocks, east Lothian
Alexander and Elizabeth had 10 children between 1843 and 1862
JAMES 1843 BERWICK
AGNES FANNY 1844 m GEORGE WOOD BURGON b 1836 - HAD 10 CHILDREN
ALEXANDER JAN 1847 COLDINGHAM
GEORGE 1849 EDROM m PHYLLIS - HAD 4 CHILDREN
JANE 1851 BERWICK m HUGH BURNS b 1853-56 KELSO - HAD 11 CHILDREN
ANN 1853 WHITSOME m ALEXANDER HUTCHISON b 1854 WHITEKIRK - HAD 8 CHILDREN
ROBERT 1855 CHIRNSIDE m UNKNOWN - HAD 6 CHILDREN
WILLIAM 1858 m JANE ELEANOR LOGAN b 1855 BERWICK ON TWEED - HAD 13 CHILDREN
ELIZABETH 1860 EDROM - HAD ONE CHILD ALEXANDER 1868
JOHN AITCHISON 1862 CHIRNSIDE
The names in bold are the ones that we know nothing of and some of the info on the family that we do know of is incomplete as far as dates are concerned.
Has anyone got a link to this family? I am happy to share my info and photos I have with anyone who is linked. I have managed to trace the family back to 1478 with thanks to a very kind 3rd cousin I found earlier on in my research.
Looking forward to hearing from anyone interested in this family. With all those Grandchildren and great grandchildren there must be someone out there
Carol
-
My wifes cousins mother was Irene Horsborough from north Shields regards Malcolm
-
My sister-in-law's mother was Marcia Isabel Horsburgh who married a Leo Mervyn McCarthy in Taree, New South Wales, Australia in 1943, and because of restrictions I cannot go back further at this stage as to who Marcia's parents were, and my sister-in-law was never told.
Do you know whether any of your line came to Australia, and if so, what area they settled in. I have a list of all the Horsburgh's (male & female) that married in New South Wales between 1810 and 1959, but without knowing who Marcia's parents were, I am unable to move on. Hope you can assist, and maybe i can help you in some way from here as well. Would prefer to communicate direct via
(*) if you agree.
Regards,
Peter
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
Hi Peter,
Does the Marriage Cert of Marcia and/or her Death Cert not provide her Parent/Parents names?
Trish :)
-
I have done further research and found that my sister-in-law's Great grandfather was a James Horsburgh born about 1851 and was married to a Sarah Maria Unknown, born about 1860, and both died in Australia.
Not sure what part of the United Kingdom they came from. Have tried Freebdm without success, and haven't yet found them on any passenger lists. It appears either one or two children were born before arriving in Australia, Names were Agnes Matilda and May. The first child recorded as born in Australia was in 1884.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Peter
-
Hi Peter
How certain are you about some of the children being born outside of Australia? What is the source?
I can see one entry for example on http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start
Elizabeth Scott Horsburgh, b. 08 Sep 1879 in Hobart, Tasmania to James Horsburgh and Sarah Mansfield
Monica
-
Found a family tree for this line on Ancestry. Would need to be confirmed/ verified but shows the following:
James Horsburgh: b. 28 JUN 1848 in Cellandyke, Scotland. Parents James Horsburgh and Elizabeth Nicol. Died 27 MAR 1932 in Cundletown Taree NSW.
Sarah Maria Mansfield: b. 15 MAY 1859 in Franklin, Tasmania, parents James Mansfield and Eliza Brown. Died 01 MAY 1949 in Home G Daughter, Iris Granville Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. Sarah's parents are showing as born in Cambridgeshire, England
The daughter Agnes Matilda that you mentioned, is showing as born on 29 DEC 1881 in Military Barracks Hobart Town Tasmania.
Monica :)
-
Some possible birth entries for the Horsburgh family on IGI. Parents James Horsburgh and Elizabeth Nicol:
1. JAMES HORSBURGH Birth: 28 JUN 1848 Kilrenny, Fife
2. ISABELLA HORSBURGH Birth: 28 JUL 1851 Kilrenny, Fife
3. WALTER NICOL HORSBURGH Birth: 25 SEP 1856 Kilrenny, Fife
4. AGNES WILSON HORSBURGH Birth: 17 NOV 1849 Kilrenny, Fife
Parent's banns/marriage show on 30 MAY 1847 Barony, Lanark and 04 JUN 1847 Kilrenny, Fife.
I think this might be a really bad transcription for the family on the 1851 census:
James Heresbuagh 44, Shep (?ship) Owrner & Fish Custer b. Crall, Fife
Eliza Heresbuagh 34 b. Denino, Fife
Lanies Heresbuagh 7 b. Cellardyke, Fife....likely James with age also mis transcribed?
Agness Heresbuagh 1 b. Cellardyke, Fife
Agness Heresbuagh 35, sister b. Cellardyke, Fife
Address: Southside Main Street, Cellardyke, Kilrenny, Fife
Monica
-
Lots of possible info to follow up on here:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCT-EDINBURGH/2003-04/1051228992 - reference to letters to James, son of James and Elizabeth (Nicol), living in Australia
http://newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/Mariners/2003-03/1046529795 - interesting details on father James, ship owner and fish curer
http://newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/SCT-FIFE/2003-02/1045439269 - relating to sister Isabella (b. 1851)
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~shayneed/morgan/f68.htm - possible family tree for Elizabeth Nicol. Also more info here www.rootschat.com/links/09si/ (I've shrunk the link, from World Connect database).
Monica
-
Regarding Sarah Mansfield's family, parents marriage shows on 13 Oct 1850 at Isleham, Cambridge, England on
At least two births also show on http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start , no first names, just male births on 14 Jul 1861 and 29 Oct 1863 both in Franklin, Tasmania. I am not having any luck finding them as yet on the English 1851 census (could they already have left for Australia following their marriage in 1850?). From the family tree I mentioned earlier, the oldest son showing there, Elijah, was born on 01 JAN 1854 in Hobart, Tasmania, so migration between those 5 years most likely.
I am not sure how accurate this is, given we have found a likely marriage for Eliza Brown in England in 1850:
BROWN Two convicts, Elijah Brown and Joseph Brown were tried at the Cambridge Assizes 20 March 1844 and sentenced for 15 years. They left Woolwich 9 June 1844. Both left Norfold Island in December 1846 for Hobart and both applied to bring out their families from England. Elijah's sister Eliza Brown arrived in 1853 and married James Mansfield. Their children were born at Franklin. Elijah had a brother Isaac Brown (bapt. 1823-1903). Isaac Brown leased from Elijah Brown of Franklin the New Inn Hotel and farm on 50 acres at Glazier's Bay (VR62). He is listed with Charles Brown as living at Glaziers Bay in 1867 (MDT). Thomas Brown and Eliza Batchelor had two children (1884 and 1890). Eliza Brown died in 1905 in Port Cygnet (death notice Mercury)...cont. here http://coad.perso.sfr.fr/names.htm
Possible 1841 census entry in Isleham for Elizabeth Brown:
Robert Brown 50
Elizebeth Brown 50
Elijah Brown 20
Isaac Brown 18
Sarah Brown 15
Eliza Brown 9
HO107; Piece 73; Book: 8; Folio: 22; Page: 39
Monica
PS. Peter, I'll stop here and let you work through all the links and info :)
-
Hi Monica,
Thank you very much for your imput. It seems I still have a lot to learn in gathering information. I will now try and sort out your entries and try and piece them together.
You seem so good at this, I wonder if you can help with one on MY family side. I am trying to go back beyond a William Blandon, born 30 November 1813 in Theberton, Suffolk, and died 1902 in Blything, Suffolk. All I know is his mother's name was Harriot. I have all his children's details.
According to freebdm, he married a Charlotte Booth in the June quarter of 1853 in Blything, Suffolk. I have found no details regarding Charlotte. The Blandon name does not appear in Rootschat's list of surnames.
Hope you can help or point me in the right direction. Thanks again.
Best Regards,
Peter
-
Hi Peter
Can I give you a suggestion? Rather than moving on to another surname on this Horsburgh post, why don't you put up a new post on the Suffolk board here on RC www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,35.0.html
More people will see it and add. Also, people with experience of Suffolk resources will also be able to contribute better :) I'll follow you over too!
Monica
PS: There are at least two couples named William Blandon and Charlotte in Suffolk in the period you are looking at...One Charlotte possibly surname Glenister, the other Booth (yours). When you put your new post up, make sure you include the names of the children you have confirmed. Likely your William Blandon was born later, c. 1829. This can all be confirmed with census entries etc.
-
My grandmother was Mary Horsburgh Spiers. Her father was Samuel Horsburgh, mother was Janet. I know that one of her siblings was Alex Munro (Horsburgh), his daughter was the actress Janet Munro.
I am interested in finding out more about the Horsburgh family. I have only managed to find out bits and pieces. The reason for this is that Mary had my mother out of wedlock, my mum was put up for adoption as a baby.
Mary tried to get my mum back at the age of 2, there was a court case, my mum's adopted parents won and were allowed to keep her. Mary was granted access to my mum from then on and visited us regularly from the USA until she died around 1975. The sad thing is that I was always told that she was my Aunt Mary, I didn't know that she was my grandmother until after she died.
-
Hi Poppy
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Are you trying to work back on your grandmother Mary's line through her ancestry?
This looks a possible entry for her parents in the 1901 census - everyone showing as born in Glasgow:
Samuel T Horsburgh 24, Packer In Biscuit Factory
Janet Horsburgh 26
Susan Horsburgh 4
Isabella Horsburgh 3
John Horsburgh 1
Agnes Neilson 19, visitor
Address: 81 Cumberland St, Calton Glasgow
Possible marriage for parents Samuel Horsburgh and Janet Neilson in 1896 in Glasgow.
Was the surname Speirs your grandmother's married name?
Monica
-
Hi Monica
Thanks for your email. Yes, this is the same family. I have managed to get all that info so far. My grandmother's married name was Spiers. She was married to Tom Spiers.
Interesting getting feedback so quickly. Are you related via the Horsburgh family?
Regards
Jackie
-
Hi Poppy
No, I'm not related, just helping out with searches :)
Are you trying to work back from Samuel and Janet or work forward through to their children and descendents (always harder given the period you are entering through the 1900s!).
Monica
-
Hi Carol,
I cannot help you with the English, as our Horsburgh are from aound cellandyke and Fife in Scotland.
I am still looking for details about James Horsburgh who married Isobel Anderson around early 1800, as i have a James Horsburgh who was their son born in about 1806.
Regards
Peter
-
Hi Carol,
I cannot help you with the English, as our Horsburgh are from aound cellandyke and Fife in Scotland.
I am still looking for details about James Horsburgh who married Isobel Anderson around early 1800, as i have a James Horsburgh who was their son born in about 1806.
Regards
Peter
Hello Peter. This conversation should really be on the Fife thread. Maybe the moderator will move us?
To find the marriage of James Horsburgh and Isobel Anderson on Scotlandspeople, as ever, you have to get the spellings just right, and in this case it is "Jas. Horsburgh" and "Isabel Anderson". They were married in Crail, Fife, on 17th February 1805. However, you just get those bare facts, no more, from the OPR.
By 1841 James and "Isabella" were living in Cellardyke, aged 58 and 57, and James was a "ship's carpenter". Living with them was their daughter Agnes, a dressmaker.
Later, their son James Horsburgh, a fishcurer employing several men, lived there with his wife Eliza Nicol, daughter of the teacher and land-surveyor James Nicol, a native of Leuchars. I've held in my hand, in the National Archives of Scotland, a beautiful map of the May Island with watercolour illustrations drawn up by James Nicol as part of his testimony to the inquiry into the May Island disaster of 1837, when a pleasure-trip in local fishing boats ended in several women and children being drowned.
James Horsburgh junior observed the local youth playing down the seaside on the Sabbath day from the window of that house and decided to start a Sunday-school for them there. I have plenty of happy memories of that house myself - later numbered and named 17-21 James Street - as it later belonged to my grandparents William Watson and Jessie Horsburgh Cunningham, and I visited the house most days of my early life until the age of 12 when my granny died and it was sold to some distant relatives called Gardner.
Incidentally, don't be misled by the Horsburgh in my granny's name. She was called after a granny from Pittenweem. However, the Pittenweem Horsburghs can be traced back to a Horsburgh who was a shoemaker in Elie, about five miles west of Cellardyke, and those Horsburghs are supposed to have been related to a Horsburgh family of shoemakers in Crail, four miles to the east of Cellardyke!
If you'd like to continue this conversation in private, send me your email address in a private message. I am aware of living descendants of some of these Horsburghs.
Harry D. Watson
(author of "Kilrenny and Cellardyke: 800 Years of History" (John Donald, 1986).
-
Morning HDW any help you can give with Horsburgh's of Pittenweem would be appreciated.
Hope attachment is of interest Jessie Ethel Hay-Hendry is my mother James Fleet Horsburgh was her Father
Kind regards
Rob Hay-Hendry
-
Hello Rob. It's always nice to find another Horsburgh "cousin"!
Can I just point out that the surname you give as Fleet is actually Flett. It's a common name in the north-east of Scotland and the Northern Isles. Many years ago I helped a lady in Cellardyke to research her Horsburgh and Flett roots. I think she must have been a cousin of your mother. Maybe you know who I mean. She told me that after Mary Flett had been in Pittenweem for some time, married to Robert Horsburgh, skipper of the "Garland", she wrote to her parents saying what a great place Pittenweem was so they packed all their possessions into their fishing boat, sailed round the coast to Fife and settled in Pittenweem. There are still Fletts in the area. Sorting out the family-tree in Findochty/Portknockie isn't for the faint-hearted, though, as there are so many Fletts up there.
You have traced your Horsburgh family-tree back to George Horsburgh, shoemaker from Elie, who married Elspeth Stevenson in St. Monans in 1750. George seems to have been the George Horsburgh born in Elie in 1720 to William Horsburgh, shoemaker, and Mary Bickerton. The famous James Horsburgh FRS, chief "hydrographer" or seachart-maker to the East India Company, also seems to have come from this family. There is a plaque to his memory in Elie church. A rock named after Horsburgh stands in the sea near the entrance to Singapore harbour.
George Horsburgh and Elspeth Stevenson were the parents of George Horsburgh who married Janet Thomson of Pittenweem in 1781. Janet was born in 1754 to John Thomson and Isobel Morrice or Morris (m.1745, Pittenweem).
I hope this is of some use to you.
Harry
-
Hi everyone, I am back searching again.
I have found that a Marjory Hors(e)burgh married our George Robbie on 25 November 1779 in Old Machar, Aberdeen. through IGI I have found that she was christened 13 December 1752 in Cupar, Fife and that her parents were John Horsburgh and Isabell Hesplund. I was unable to find where John & Isabell were born & married or any other details. As Marjory came from the same county as my earlier Horsburgh searches, I am interested to see if there is a connection between them even though they are a few generations apart. Hoping someone can shed some light on it for me.
Regards
Peter Robbie
-
My mother is Doris Horsburgh born in Glasgow 79yrs old today. We live in Caanda. Her mother was Mary Horsburgh and dad Joseph Horsburgh. Hope this helps. Bryan
-
Hi, it's been a long time since anyone posted here but I'll give an update on what I've recently found in case anybody is interested.
The family name is generally associated with Peebleshire in the Scottish Borders, however when church records began (mid 1500s) there was already a large Horsburgh contingent living in Anstruther Wester in Fife. You can pick up their details including source material and family lines from the Familysearch website under the following People IDs: G5FJ-42K & G5FW-GFJ.
Regards
-
Why bother with FamilySearch when you can go straight to the original documents at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk?
-
Hi Forfarian,
Yes, you make a very good point but the purpose of my post was simply to alert 'Horsburgh people' to the fact that there are records of a large contingent of 'Horsbroughs' in Fife from 1578 onwards.
The Scotlands people website is of course the font of all knowledge when it comes to Birth Marriage and Death records of Scots from the 1500s to present day.
But, as you are aware, their search engine (on phonetic match) often leaves out significant name variation records. A search on Horsburgh and then Horsbrough gives two entirely separate sets of results (see below).
To come across such a concentration of Horsbrough records in Fife in the 1500s was a bit unusual and, as they were linked to my family name and had not been entered up in the FamilySearch tree, I combined Horsburgh & Horsbrough records for the period 1578-1620 and updated the tree accordingly - hence my post.
You can also print FamilySearch source text records for free, which is slightly better than the free one liners you can get from the Scotlands People website. Sometimes you can even download images.
Best regards
-
as you are aware, their search engine (on phonetic match) often leaves out significant name variation records. A search on Horsburgh and then Horsbrough gives two entirely separate sets of results (see below).
I almost never use the phonetic search.
I would search for h*r*s*b*r* which would pick up all the variations.
-
Thanks, that's a very good tip & I'll use it in future!
Another tip, if you use the records search function (not family tree search) on the Familysearch website, and limit the date range (Scotland - match place exactly) it picks up virtually all the name variations for birth marriage and death records in one operation - it does not matter if you put in Horsburgh, Horsbrough or Horseburgh - you get the same results.
Of course ScotlandsPeople has primacy, but FamilySearch (as other websites) has supposedly transcribed and indexed all ScotlandsPeople records and their search functions occasionally reveal results that the Scotlandspeople website doesn't.
Regards
-
Another tip, if you use the records search function (not family tree search) on the Familysearch website, and limit the date range (Scotland - match place exactly) it picks up virtually all the name variations for birth marriage and death records in one operation - it does not matter if you put in Horsburgh, Horsbrough or Horseburgh - you get the same results.
Yes, but FS now makes it quite difficult to home in on exactly the range of records you want - for example if you look for the birth of someone born in Scotland in the 1860s, you get all the matching results from the US census as well as the actual birth indexes.
FamilySearch (as other websites) has supposedly transcribed and indexed all ScotlandsPeople records
Supposedly. In fact they have not.
For example, try a search for given name John, birth 1820 to 1854, in Duffus, Moray.
FS produces 4 (four) results, only one of which is an actual birth/baptism record, and another is from Durris, which is a different place almost 80 miles from Duffus.
The identical search on SP produces 204 (yes, two hundred and four) birth/baptism records. For reasons no doubt known to the LDS, they did not index that volume of the Duffus parish registers when they were creating the IGI, and they have never remedied the omission.
I believe that there are similar omissions elsewhere. The southern half of Scotland, in particular, is said to have patchy coverage on FS because they abandoned the IGI before they had covered the whole country. And I have read, but never come across an actual instance, that in some parishes they only indexed the baptisms of males and omitted the females.
So I use FS for three sorts of search. First, to look up the originals of the US census. Second, to get actual dates of births and marriages from 1855 to 1874, which the LDS did index fully. Third, as one of several places to look for people who were born in Scotland and have disappeared from the Scottish records.
-
I agree, when you're looking for elusive records the more databases you can check the better. I also use Freereg & Freecen & while they have only limited coverage for Scotland they frequently turn up information not revealed on the other websites.
Regards