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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: kamakaziken on Monday 03 April 06 12:35 BST (UK)
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Hi Friends.
Can anyone help me with imformation relating to the Adeline, and Georgina Jarvis?
I have them on the 1901 census living at Adon(?) Green Gt. Walderfield
along with Adeline's parents James and Ursula and her daughter Mary Smith.
Georgina (b.1878) is Adeline's illigitimate daughter (baptised - Georgina L Finch Jarvis - possible connections to a local FINCH family ?) and Mary Smith appears to be the sister of my grandmother Violet who is not mentioned on the 1901 census although born 1900, it would appear that Adeline's husband (Frederick SMITH a local Agricultural Labourer and shown on Violet' s birth certificate as a Private in the Cheshire Regiment (Feb1900) has died soon after Violet's birth, possibly around late 1900's but certainly before the census.
Does anyone have any gravestone markings or perhaps marriage information on these people that could give me another lead to tracing possible living relatives?
I have "hit the wall" with this particular branch of the tree and am in need of some new inspiration.
Appreciate any suggestions or information.
Ken
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hi Ken,
Here in Little Waldingfield it's a sunny day :D
Unfortunately Acton All Saints and Great Waldingfield St Lawrence PRs are a bit awkward to access due to an incumbent in the past not allowing them to be filmed.
Best bet would be to see what Ray has transcribed at www.cosford-database.co.uk - both parishes on the web site.
Adon Green Great Waldingfield?
There is Upsher Green, Washmere Green in Gt W ?
Best regards,
Ode mawther
Now driving the two miles to Great Waldingfield to collect Dad and take him to his GP appointment ;)
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Hi Ode,
thanks for the interest. I have researched Ray's database and it has been a great insight, but doesnt help in trying to find dates of death etc after 1901.
Handwriting on the original 1901 census is a bit poor but looks like Adon Green or similar.
Hope dad was ok at the doc's
Cheers.
Ken
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Thanks Ken, Dad needed his shot of B12! could do with something like that myself :)
I do know one of the Churchwardens at GtW and could find out if they have a map of the churchyard.
I managed to persuade same in our village to let me borrow the map and I made a copy on the back of a roll of wallpaper.
It will take me a few days (busy week) but I will see if I can find anything either by checking written or taking the dog for a different sort of walk one afternoon (around the churchyard at GtW).
Catch up with you soon.
Ode Mawther in Suffolk ;)
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Thanks appreciate any help. Hear from you soon. Ken
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Hi Ken
I have been looking at the census image today to give me some clues.
It's the first time I have seen Great Waldingfield and Acton together on one image. However, it is definitely Acton as I checked the enumerators route.
The Jarvis' were living at Acton Green - amongst their neighbours were the Poole family. The Poole House is in The (High) Street in Acton, so I wonder if part of The Street is known as Acton Green. Across the road today is a local authority housing estate, which I have always assumed to have been built in the years following WWII (1950s).
I did check on old-maps.co.uk to see if Acton Green was marked (it wasn't).
Also of course, much of the land between Acton, Chilton and Great Waldingfield was 'borrowed' to become an airfield in WWII, although much of that will soon be built on, although part of it is designated to become a Community woodland.
The next place on the route that the enumerator walked is Oven's Green.
In fact the family are living next door to each other,
61. Adeline Jarvis Head age 41 horsehair brush weaver working at home born Acton
Mary Smith daughter aged 2 born Acton
Georgina Jarvis daughter age 23 years working from home as a horsehair brush weaver born Acton
62. James Jarvis Head age 76 Harrier working on own account born Acton
Ursula Jarvis wife age 71 born (Long) Melford
There was a lot of horsehair weaving in the local area.
I have to drive to Long Melford on Thursday afternoon, I will check Acton Street on the way home to see where Acton Green might have been.
Soooooo, I now wonder if they are buried at All Saints Church in Acton?
Back soon,
Suffolk Mawther
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Me again :)
I made a mistake in previous message, Adeline is not Head but listed as wife.
Also, I was not happy with the occupation of James so called husband from his study to check - he thinks could be Farrier or Farmer.
However, I checked the 1891 to see what he was doing then and he is listed then as Agricultural Labourer (1891 enumerator had lovely handwriting - a pleaure to read it).
The family at that time were living at Lavenham Road, Acton.
I checked back on the 1901 as they were no 61 and 62 on the enumerators route, and we went back to the beginning of Acton Green - can only think it is the main street through as the Post Office is shown and two shops. But I will double check this on Thursday.
Husband waiting to send email.
Night Night
Mawther
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Hi,
this is fantastic, I have had another look at the 1901 and your right (glad someone can read the handwriting) it is obviously "Acton Green" and not "Adon" and I first thought.
As you say, Adeline's parents James and Ursula (Making) are living next door. James was a Farm Laborer 10 years earlier.
Its a bit strange with the goings on with this little group, without boring you I will try and explain what I think has happened.
Adeline has given birth to Georgina (1878) "out of wedlock" (and they say our generation are bad people!!) given the attitude of people then I am a bit surprised that James and Ursula have stuck by Adeline but thats parents for you. Anyway, Georgina is actually named Georgina Louisa Finch Jarvis, and I wonder if there is not a clue there somewhere with the inclusion of the "Finch" in her name as to perhaps the unnamed father?
She goes on to marry Frederick Smith (1864 Acton) in 1895 now it starts getting complicated. It would appear that twins were born in 1898. (Mary and Violet) There are death certificates showing they are baptized and buried on the 9th May and they were about 14 days old. (so backtracking I reckon the date of birth is around 24th April ... remember this date and you will see why)
I lived with my grandmother (who was Fred and Adeline's daughter - Violet Mary) for many years after my mothers death, we always celebrated her birthday on the 24th April (its that date again) but when I started to research the family about 2 years ago, I actually discovered that she is born on 24th FEBRUARY 1900.
I recall her telling me that she was like the "queen" she had 2 birthdays every year, but never questioned what she meant by the statement, its obvious now, but appears that she celebrated her birthday on the birth date of the dead twins 24th APRIL.
Fred is shown on Nan's birth certificate as being a Private in the Cheshire Regiment (which I think is a bit odd as well considering he was born and lived in Acton all his life - where does the Cheshire connection come in?)
But he is not shown on the 1901 census. Neither is Violet.
I wonder if he has died (and buried in Acton/Lavenham?) between Violet being born in Feb 1900 and the census being taken in March 1901?
There is a "Mary" listed on the census return, but she is aged 2 which would indicate she was born in 1899 and not 1900.
I know my grandmother did have a sister, but have no idea if she was older of younger.
Wont bore you any more with this, but will thank you for all your effort on my behalf and look forward to more exciting news.
Ken
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Happy to help Ken, as you now know I live right 'on the doorstep' as they say :)
Cheshire Regiment? I think it depended on what representative of which regiment called in at the local village hall and tried to get the lads to sign up.
My husbands grandad - Framlingham born and bred - signed up for the Befordshire Regiment ???
And I am helping a friend in Sudbury who is researching all the names on the War Memorial in Sudbury, she is stuck with a Sudbury lad who died in WWI and was with The Australian Infantry - work that one out - cos we can't :-\
Back soon,
Mawther
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PS
thanks for all the extra information Ken, I will print it off and have a good read through and see what I can find.
The Rector at All Saints Acton now is a really nice chap, John Fieldgate. It was someone in the past who put the 'stop' on the PRs (and I suspect that person is now the Rural Dean of the local area).
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Hi again,
Thanks for the info on the different regiments, it could explain the Cheshire connection (but not the Australian one).
I have just come across an entry on 1837 for a Fred Smith's death in Apr/May/Jun 1900 in Chelmsford Registry (4a 311) and he is aged 36 which would fit in with our Fred's absence from the 1901 census.
Smashing sunny day here now after the early frost, hope your having a good day.
Ken
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Apologies for delay in getting back to you.
My Thursday afternoon appointment in Long Melford was cancelled and I saw one of the doctors at Lavenham in the morning instead. Seems the reason I have been falling over was due to Labrynthitis (Vertigo) rather than not using enough Tonic Water !?!?
Will get back to you soon :D
Ode Suffolk Mawther
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Ode Suffolk Mawther
Yew be a givin us Sarfark gels a bad name.
Oi int loike that.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi,
No problem, take it steady, I always find if your on your hands and knees its a little less painful cos you havnt got so far to fall over!! My granddad told me all about you country girls thats why I stay in the city.
Take care and hear from you soon.
Ken
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Hi Ken,
Just to let you know I am back on the case - will do some investigating next week ;)
SM ...
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Hi,
Thanks for your help.
Am still waiting for the death cert to come for the Frederick Smith I discovered to see if it is the same one. Look forward to hearing from you, hope your Vertigo is a little better. Take it steady. Ken
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Hi Ken,
Found a little bit of information at the RO in Bury St Edmunds today :)
The entry for the baptism for Georgina reads
1878 May 12th Georgina Louisa Finch base born child of Adeline Jervis of Acton High Tree
Now I went back over a couple of pages and found 'High Tree' a couple of times, and I also found 'The Street'. I have no idea what High Tree means (yet!)
In the baptisms for 1898 - Acton All Saints
May 9th Violet daughter of Frederick and Adelina Smith
both of Acton and he is listed as a Farm Labourer.
In the margin is a note 'Died the same day'.
Below that entry is the entry for Mary, all details as above - but, no note in the margin.
May 8th 1860 is the baptism for Frederick son of James and Ann Smith of Acton, father Labourer
I did notice a baptism for James Frederick, son of Abraham and Eliza Finch on Sept 10th 1876
Have you looked to see who the grandmother's were of young Georgina? It might well be a name to do with the errant father, or it might just be a family name (very common occurrence in Suffolk to give family names as middle names) ::)
I found in the burials
Acton All Saints - 1898 May 14th aged 14 days, Violet Smith of Acton.
No evidence of May's death found.
Violet and Mary could have been twins or they may not have had Mary baptised when she was a small child, and as Violet had now arrived and was not doing very well, they may have had both girls baptised together.
No doubt they would have been told that whilst having Violet baptised, theymust also have Mary baptised? Another query? Check in the BMDs for a birth?
Better get supper now - these domestic things dew get in the way of family history research doan't they???
Cheerio, Suffolk Mawther ;)
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Hi,
Thanks so much for the info.
Your right there was "twins" Violet and Mary, regretfully Violet died at birth but Mary survived, two years later my grandmother came along (Violet Mary) but know nothing of what happened to Mary in later life, I can recall as a very young lad being taken to Walthamstow by my grandmother to see her sister but dont remember too much about it.
Back to Georgina, obviously we know that her mum was Adeline Jarvis, I wondered if the "Finch" was something to do with the father, especially as Adeline's parents were James Jarvis (b.1823) and Ursular Making (b.1829) so not able to find any "finch" connection on either side..... Odd
Thanks for the info on Frederick's parents I can try and find them now.
Still a mystery what happened to Georgina......
And what on earth is this "High Tree" could that be the family home of the "Finch" family?
Bon Appitite
Ken
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I think that High Tree is an area of Acton as several people were listed as living there over the years that I checked and it was distinct from The Street, Acton. It could be the hamlet on the way to Lavenham on the Long Melford side of the village.
As for the Finch connection don't rule out a female person with the name.
I know from experience this is often the case - especially if the name is becoming uncommon in the family, or dying out in the village, it will be used as a middle name.
Who were Ursula Making's parents? Was her mother nee Finch? Was James Jarvis' mother a Finch? This is where I would begin my search.
Have you had contact with Ken Finch, Treasurer of SFHS (I used to be Sec SFHS and know that Ken has a lot of Finch info).
The only references to Finch that I found in Acton PRs were to Finch families that were Ag Labs etc, no wealthy Finch families.
Violet died aged 14 days.
Adeline was spelled Adelina in some entries in the PRs, I wonder if although spelled generally as Adeline it was pronounced as Adelina.
I shall be at the RO again in a couple of weeks time and will book a film reader as well as a fiche reader. I hope to have a little more time on my next visit too.
John had a productive day at the RO in Ipswich and has just about finalised the photographs for his new book (coming out with Poppyland publishers in October).
Off to bed now - early night for a change ;)
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Well not quite as early as I had planned - but i really am going to bed now.
Here are some notes on the family - trying to find any Finch connections, but i guess it must be the father of Georgina ???
Ursular MAKING was born about 1830 in Long Melford, Suffolk, England.
She was married to James JARVIS on 3 Mar 1848 in Lavenham, Suffolk, England.
Children were: Charles JARVIS, Emily Sophia JARVIS, Emily JARVIS, Higham JARVIS, Pheobe JARVIS, James Bellamy JARVIS, Adeline JARVIS, Julia JARVIS, Alfred Making JARVIS, Edwin Montague JARVIS .
Adeline JARVIS was born in 1860 in Lavenham, Suffolk, England.
She was baptised on 4 Nov 1860 in Lavenham, Suffolk, England.
She was a Weaver of Hair in 1881 in Acton, Suffolk, England.
Weaver of Horse Hair in 1891 in Acton, Suffolk, England.
Parents: James JARVIS and Ursular MAKING.
She was married to Frederick SMITH on 27 Oct 1895 in Acton, Suffolk, England. Children were: Mary SMITH, Violet SMITH, Violet Mary SMITH.
Children were: Georgina Louisa Finch JARVIS.
James JARVIS was born in 1823 in Acton, Suffolk, England. He was baptised on 17 Aug 1823 in Acton, Suffolk, England.
He was an Agricultural Labourer in 1861 in Lavenham, Suffolk, England.
Agricultural Labourer in 1881 in Acton, Suffolk, England.
Agricultural Labourer in 1891 in Acton, Suffolk, England.
He was a Farmer in 1901 in Acton/Great Waldingfield, Suffolk, England.
He died before 1909.
Parents: William JARVIS and Martha COKER.
He was married to Ursular MAKING on 3 Mar 1848 in Lavenham, Suffolk, England.
Children were: Charles JARVIS, Emily Sophia JARVIS, Emily JARVIS, Higham JARVIS, Pheobe JARVIS, James Bellamy JARVIS, Adeline JARVIS, Julia JARVIS, Alfred Making JARVIS, Edwin Montague JARVIS.
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Hi,
Well not a very early night for you was it?
I really cannot express how thankful I am for your help.
The problem seems that the further you dig into Georgina Louise "Finch" Jarvis, the more complicated it gets.....
Not sure if I told you the saga of my grandmother (Violet Mary Smith b.1900) and how the information relating to the "twins" had an influence on her.
Obviously we have established that the possible "twins" (Violet and Mary) were born in 1898 with Violet dying and Mary surviving.
Then in 1900 along comes Violet Mary whose actual birthday is the 24th Febuary 1900.
Following my mothers death I was raised by Violet Mary and she always celebrated her birthday on 24th April, looking at the information discovered it would seem that the entry in the PR's indicate that on May 9th Violet is baptised and dies aged 14 days, perhaps too much of a coincidence that backtracking, 14 days from 9th May actually comes out to 25th April and NOT 24th the day she always celebrated her birthday.
Can I contact Ken Finch thru SFHS or do you have a direct link I could use?
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Hi Ken,
I expect you know there is loads of information on your family at my web partner's own web site - www.cosford-database.co.uk
Look in Surnames listings for Lavenham and Acton and Long Melford and you will find them all :)
I have double checked all my notes from yesterday and I have entered them correctly.
May 9th 1898 baptisms
May 14th burial - age 14 days
It could be that the babies were born just each side of mid-night? As I think twins often are, just to be awkward ;D
I guess because I live within walking distance of your village of interest, I kinda tried to help a little bit ;)
I probably told you I am the LHR for Lt Waldingfield and I do know the LHR for Acton, I will contact her next week to ask about the ancient names for areas of the village (much built on in the 1970s - two large newish estates and lots of infil housing, the school was rebuilt and all the school buildings are homes now too).
Off to Dad's in Gt Waldingfield now, then Sudbury.
SM ...
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Hi again,
thanks again for all your help and the information re Ken Finch, I have dropped him a line and hopefully he will be able to get back to me.
Take care
Ken