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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: butcher on Thursday 30 March 06 14:29 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Looking for information relating to the St Johnston family of Kings Heath, Birmingham. Thomas George & Alice Marie ST JOHNSTON had a large family- Florence, Queenie, may, William, Daisy,Edith, Lottie, Alice, Walter, Thomas & Lilian all born in the period 1880s-1890s- whatever happened to them all and their descendants?
Please help if you can!
Ian
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Hi Ian
1891 Kings Norton Wors RG12/2350 F 15 P 24
Valentine Road
St Johnston
Thomas G 39 Head Wine Merchant b Birmingham
Alice M 38 Wife b London
Alice M 20 Dau b Birmingham
Lottie 16 Dau Scholar b Balsall Heath Wors
Florence 14 Dau Scholar b Balsall Heath Wors
Edith 11 Dau Scholar b Balsall Heath Wors
Walter 10 Son Scholar b Balsall Heath Wors
Thomas G 8 Son Scholar b Kings Heath Wors
Lilian L 7 Dau Scholar b Kings Heath Wors
Daisy G 4 Dau Scholar b Kings Heath Wors
Frances E Mau ??? 46 Unmar Sister-in-Law Millinery Mangaress b London
Marriage Mar qtr 1902 Kings Norton 6c 622
Alice Mabel St Johnston
Spouse: Frederick William Allen or Percy George Wileman
Marriage Sep qtr 1908 Kings Norton 6c 846
Daisy G St Johnston
Spouse: Arthur Edward Haydon or Ernest Payne
Marriage Jun qtr Kings Norton 6c 813
Edith Marie St Johnston
Spouse: Henry Finch or William Wilkinson
Marriage Dec qtr 1908 Kings Norton 6c 774
Florence A St Johnston
Spouse: Sam Garrett or Sydney Charnwood Palmer
Marriage Dec qtr 1908 Toxteth Park Lancs 8b 373
Lilian Louise St Johnston
Spouse: George Wallace Bain or Clifford Boulton Crisp
Marriage Sep qtr 1910 Kings Norton 6c 783
Lottie E St Johnston
Spouse: Reginald S Dacombe or William R Hanson or Alexander A Webb
Marriage Jun qtr 1909 Kings Norton 6c 738
Thomas Gerald St Johnston
Spouse: Mary Elizabeth Hales or Ethel Mary F F Ryley
Marriage Mar qtr 1912 Solihull Warwickshire West Midlands 6d 699
Walter J St Johnston
Spouse: Doris M Wilson
Hope these are useful
Claire :)
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Hi Claire,
Brilliant of you to find this all out and so quickly! However, I already had this from freeBMD. The odd thing is, I cant find out anything else about their descendants, apart from Florence who is my great gran. Thomas George, the 1991 head of household is listed in 1881 with surname JOHNSTON and in 1871 as JOHNSON- these may be ennumerator errors or evidence of evolving name. Love to speak to anyone who knows more/ is related. In the meantime, thanks again Claire!
Ian
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Hi
I know you were looking some time ago, my mother was married to Thomas (St Johnston) Haydon of Kings Heath. He is still alive and lives in Moseley. His son Martin ran Haydon printing in Institute Road. Tom's niece is Ann Haydon-Jones the tennis player.
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Ann Jones is my granddads cousin. I will send you a private message with my email address- would be interested in getting in touch,
Regards,
Ian
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That's fine.
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You are looking for information on the descendants of Thomas George St Johnstone and Alice Marie St Johnston and I am looking for information on their parents, grandparents, great grandparents and so on, back in time as I believe that there may possibly be a long and colourful family history to unearth here.
Thomas George and Alice Marie St Johnstone are my great grandparents. Their daughter Daisy is my grandmother. She married Arthur Edward Haydon and they had 4 children (Adrian, Marjorie, Cicely, Thomas) and Cicely is my mother. Thomas is still alive and is 93 years old I believe and recently asked me for a photograph of his mother which I was able to provide. There was a very sad St Johnstone family tragedy when Daisy died ten days after giving birth to her youngest child, Thomas. By all accounts she died of an infection because the mid-wife who delivered Thomas had an infected hand wound. The four children were brought up therefore by an aunt. To complete this particular family line and bring it right up to date, my wife and I have two daughters and they have six children all under ten years of age.
It is correct that the St Johnstone family was large and the census information given for them by one of your correspondents is the same as that which I have found. I have a photograph of the entire family with Thomas George and Alice Marie, their children and what is most likely to be some of their grandchildren, taken in what would appear to be their garden. I imagine the photograph was taken around 1910. Yes, Thomas George was a wine merchant. My grandfather, Arthur Haydon, was a master printer with a small printing works in Kings Heath, Birmingham, latterly run by his son Martin (my cousin) until he sold it some years ago. The Haydons are a tennis family. I believe that Adrian either captained or played for England's table tennis team and his daughter and my cousin, Anne Haydon (-Jones), won the women's championship at Wimbledon in 1970.
If anyone can shed any light on the other children of Thomas George and Alice Marie, that would be very interesting. However, it would also be very interesting to trace their ancestors. There was an oral history passed on by my mother and her brothers and sister, that the St Johnstone's go back to the Border Reivers on the border either side of the the boundary between Scotland and England. This oral history - almost certainly garbled by time and quite possibly affected by various imaginations rather than realities - also has it that the family motto is 'Redy, aye, redy' and is accompanied by a family crest which is a Winged Spur. One of the main areas of the country where one finds Johnstone surnames is indeed in Southern Scotland and if one visits the town of Moffat you can find the Winged Spur on a sign at the entry to the town. The history of the Johnstones is that they were a 'clan' at war with the Moffats and at one point they ransacked the town of Moffat and took it over. If one delves further into this murky history, then one finds that a man called Johnstone worked alongside Robert the Bruce and was his messenger and it is he who is supposed to have said 'Redy, aye, redy'. Now, how much of all this one can believe is connected to Thomas George and Alice Marie St Johnstone - and how the family got the 'St' prefix for their surname - is very debatable. Again, the oral history in the family had it that the Johnstones of Southern Scotland split into two groups - one followed the Border Reivers occupation of cattle theft and robbery, and the other (the 'Saints') gave up this occupation.
Does anyone have anything to add ?
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Marriage Jun qtr 1909 Kings Norton 6c 738
Thomas Gerald St Johnston
Spouse: Ethel Mary F F Ryley
Ethel Mary F F St Johnston born 1887 died 1960 aged 73 in Birmingham.
They had a daughter according to free bdm
Births Jun 1914
ST JOHNSTON Mary F Ryley Kings N. 6d 15
She married 1937 a man named Cannon (freebdm)
Marriages Dec 1937
Cannon Reginald C St Johnston Birmingham 6d 311
Reginald C Cannon and Mary F St Johnston had a daughter (freebdm)
Births Mar 1948
Cannon Julia M St Johnston Birmingham 9c 385
Presumably the daughter then married and changed surnames again so, I'm not surprised some of your female lines would be hard to follow down
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Thomas G St Johnston died in 1922 at Kings Norton aged 70 he was born in 1852.
I wonder if this family takes it's name from the medieval name for the city Perth in Scotland (St Johnstoun) rather than being saints due to not reiving?
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Hi Dannis48,
I have amassed all sorts of info over the years about the St Johnstons including the family photo album from when Thomas lived at The Poplars on Valentine Rd (which Kings Heath Junior School is built on top of), so I have photos of all his children including Daisy if Thomas would like to see them?
I also have a copy of "The Blue Book" written in the 1940s, of which a copy was given, so I am led to believe to all branches of the St Johnston family, which sets out much of the family history. I would be extremely interested in contacting anyone else in possession of a copy as there were only a small number ever printed as it was for internal family perusal.
Regards,
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Thank you for this.
I would of course like to see the photographs of my grandmother, Daisy and if I had copies of oen or more I could easily pass them onto her son. He is now very old and would need this help i think. I had heard of the blue book but have never seen a copy as I am in not in touch with otehr St Johnstone family members so far.
What is feasibel from your point of view, in terms of letting me see these things ? Do you have electronic copies (probably not I guess). I live in Hertfordshire. Where do you live /
Many thanks for your response.
Dennis
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Hi
It's many years since your posting so I can only hope that you are still interested in the St Johnston family. I have been researching my family for many years now and have recently started looking into my ex-husband's family as he and our sons are interested to know more. Charles, my former husband, is the grandson of Lilian Louise Crisp (nee St Johnston) (1883 - 1970s). She was always known as Queenie. In 1908 in Toxteth Park, Liverpool she married Clifford Boulton Crisp (Abt. 1884 - 06.05.1917) by whom she had two children - Clifford Manning Crisp (b.1910) and Gwyneth Crisp (b.1912). Clifford married Enid Mary Jones in Surrey in December 1938 and they had three sons - Thomas Crisp (b.1940), Charles Manning Crisp (my former husband, born on 22.01.1945.) and Robert Kendrick Crisp (b.1948). Clifford died in 1987 and his wife Enid died in 1989 both in Devon. Gwyneth was born in 1912 and died in the 1980s in Surrey. She never married and died without issue.
I believe that Lilian Louise St Johnston remarried, maybe twice. At the end of her life, her husband was an English speaking Portuguese gentleman whom I met many times, but currently, I have been unable to trace his details online. Lilian may also have married for the second time shortly after the death of her first husband in 1917 - a Leonard Lownes. Does this mean anything to you?
If you, or any readers have any more information or photographs of the family, I should be delighted to hear from them.
Best wishes Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa,
Good to hear from you. Yes, I have Lillian in my tree, but my mum was not sure if she was a separate person to Queenie, who she does remember- so this has cleared this up for me. I have some old photos of who my mum believes is Queenie, would you be able to identify them?
I have not got solid knowledge of Leonard Lownes, but mum remembers the Portuguese gent as Monty Russo and another name as Moughtino (prob not spelt correctly) but they may not be one and the same
Happy New Year!
Ian
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Hi Dennis48,
Please get in touch directly, not sure if I replied to you directly previously- life has been rather turbulent and this may have slipped through the net!
Happy New Year everyone!
Ian
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Hi Ian
Thanks for your reply. I should love to see any photos you have of the family and hope I would be able to recognise 'Queenie'. I remember her as being extremely petite with piercing blue eyes and quite a mass of grey hair! That would have been in the late 60s/70s.
I have no experience of Rootschat - how do I privately pass my email address to you? I have a copy of a photograph of six of the girls which I believe was taken in about 1903. I could email you a copy.
Happy New Year and best wishes
Vanessa
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I am not au fait with more than the names of your family although I have heard them mentioned. The name was originally Johnston, with members of the family having an S as a middle name standing for the "Saint". My great x 3 grandmother was an Eliza S Johnston bapt in Manchester. It was her father Thomas who was born near to Gretna Green in 1785. A Reginald St Johnston wrote and published a book about Eliza's generation of Johnstons and he would have come from your line too I think as he refers to Thomas born circa 1851 as his grandfather. You can google him - he was quite well known in his time with a lengthy public career.
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Hi AnjyW,
I have Eliza in my tree as the daughter of Thomas Johnston and Elizabeth who are my g g g g grandparents with Eliza being my g g g grandaunt, would be very happy to make contact as yours is a branch I have little knowledge of?
Regards,
Ian