RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: cookson on Monday 27 March 06 01:14 BST (UK)
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Hi, Does anyone here in roots have any McEwan rellies, just found my grt grt grt grandparents, in Comrie Perthshire, William Drummond and Margaret Drummond nee McEwan, came to England, Hull, my grt grt grandafather Richard Drummond was born in Hull , Yorkshire in 1827 moved to Scarborough Yorkshire, where ny grt grandmother, Mary Drummond was born. :)
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William Drummond was born in 1797 Comrie Perthshire Scotland,he married Hannah Rayner she was born in Hull about 1800 , William Drummond born 1766 Comrie Perthshire and Margaret Mcewan born abt 1760 they married on 14th August 1796 in comrie Perthshire Scotland .my great grandad was Thomas Drummond ,Thomas was living In Town street Falsgrave Scarborough in 1861 Richard Drummond lived next door to him and was possibly his brother Richard was aged 36 on the 1861 censor.and in 1871 Thomas was living at 38 Duncombe street Grimsby.
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Hi,
Thomas Sawdon Drummond was the sixth of eight (that we know of) children born to William Drummond and Hannah Rayner. I believe the address was 'Tower' Street, not 'Town'.
Need to be careful going further back with William. Whilst the censuses consistently declare ages that match a 1795 birth to William Drummond+Margaret McEwan, I believe their William was a joiner/wright who never left Comrie and died and was buried there in 1858.
There was a William born to William Drummond and ANN McEwan in 1797, but I haven't managed to trace that line as of yet. Just picking up the research threads again after a long break.
Regards
Bob
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Need to be careful going further back with William. Whilst the censuses consistently declare ages that match a 1795 birth to William Drummond+Margaret McEwan, I believe their William was a joiner/wright who never left Comrie and died and was buried there in 1858.
You should be able to settle that by getting the death certificate from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - it will name both of William Drummond's parents. The index does say that his mother's maiden surname was McEwen.
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Yep, already done that.
William died in Comrie on March 16th 1858, aged 62. Parents William, labourer (deceased) and Margaret McEwan (or Drummond).
The death was reported by one Duncan Drummond (son) on the 23rd. Nasty death - haemorrhegia for 7 weeks.
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1851 Census in Comrie: William Drummond, 54; wife Janet Stalker, 58; children Margaret, 28; William, 22; Duncan, 15, all born in Comrie.
1851 Census in Scarborough: William Drummond, 56, born Scotland; wife Hannah Drummond, 51; children Richard, 23; William, 19; John, 17; Thomas, 12; Sarah, 6, all born in Hull.
So the William Drummond who went to Hull and married Hannah Rayner cannot have been the son of William Drummond and Margaret McEwan.
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Correct.
:)
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So cookson and kirkys have been climbing the wrong branch of their tree (we've all done that :) ) so the question now is which branch they need to look at next.
I see that Hannah Drummond, widow, 61, is a lodger in Scarborough in 1861. Is it reasonable to suppose that William Drummond, husband of Hannah Rayner, is the one who died in Hull in 1860 aged 65?
In 1841 he gave his age as 45. Ages in 1841 were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, so he could have been any age from 45 to 49, so if his age is accurate he was born between 8 June 1791 and 7 June 1796.
In 1851 he said he was 56, so if his age is accurate he was born between 31 March 1794 and 30 March 1795. These dates are consistent.
In the death indexes he is said to have been 65, which, if accurate, suggests that he was born in 1794 or 1795. Again, these dates are consistent with the census.
So you should be looking for a William Drummond born in 1794 or 1795.
There are three in the Scottish church records
- son of William Drummond and Christian Bell, baptised 16 March 1794, Whitekirk and Tyninghame
- son of John D and Elizabeth Galbreath, baptised in New Monkland on 28 September 1794
- son of William D and Margaret MacEwan, who we know from his death certificate is not the right one.
Using the census transcriptions at FindMyPast, neither of the other two can be pinned down with certainty.
Unfortunately it is always possible that your William Drummond is one of those whose baptism record (if it ever existed) has not survived.
For example in 1851 there is a 57-year-old William Drummond in Sunderland, born Scotland, but in 1871 he gives his birthplace as Scotland, Lockerby. There is no record of the baptism of a William Drummond in Dryfesdale, the parish in which Lockerbie is situated.
What were the names of the children of William Drummond and Hannah Rayner, in order of date of birth? And what were the names of Hannah's parents?
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Hi Guys,
Re: Drummonds Tree.
Thanks for your input into my Drummond Tree, but it would appear you have moved the goalpost's somewhat, as my research into my great grandmother MARY ELIZABETH DRUMMOND shows she was born 1855 in SCARBOROUGH, to RICHARD RAYNER JAMES DRUMMOND and ELIZABETH BLAND.
Having recently done my DNA, along with my brother, and cousin, whereby i have matches with my paternal side, mostly which is where the DRUMMONDS fit in.
However , I am almost sure i have been looking in the right direction but i will check again and have a further search and see what our DNA results throw up.
Regards
Janice.
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Thanks for your input into my Drummond Tree, but it would appear you have moved the goalposts somewhat
Well, it is 14 years since your original post :)
my great grandmother MARY ELIZABETH DRUMMOND shows she was born 1855 in SCARBOROUGH, to RICHARD RAYNER JAMES DRUMMOND and ELIZABETH BLAND.
Nothing in what has been posted since then even refers to that.
The only piece of new information is the proof that your great-great-great-grandfather William Drummond was not the son of William Drummond and Margaret McEwan, so you are almost certainly not related to the McEwans in Comrie.
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Just had a look at my first post, on the William Drummond , I made an error, in saying that, William and Margaret McEwen, came to Hull,
It was not them.
It was the William Drummond, born, 1796, who came to Hull, married, Hannah Rayner, and had my great, great, Grandad, Richard Rayner James Drummond... In 1828...
They later moved to, Scarborough, where Richard, married, Elizabeth Bland, and had my Great grandmother,
Mary Elizabeth Drummond, In 1855.
Went on to marry, Elizabeth Millow, and had more children with her.
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Just had a look at my first post, on the William Drummond , I made an error, in saying that, William and Margaret McEwen, came to Hull,
It was not them.
No, and the William who came to Hull was not their son, because their son William stayed in Comrie, married and had a family there, and died there in 1858.
Unlike English death certificates, Scottish death certificates normally record the names of the parents of the deceased, including the deceased's mother's maiden surname. That 1858 death certificate proves that the William Drummond who went to Hull was not that one.
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Yes, I know about the Scottish certs, as I have been working on my family's tree, a long time, and my DNA results show that I have mostly Scottish, and Irish genes, I have done research at the Mitchell library, with my cousin who lives in Glasgow., Like you say, that post was from the beginnings of my family search.
I have been battling with serious health issues, in last few years, so my research has been put on hold, I have to have my cousin in Hull with me to research now, as I suffer with memory loss, and concentration now, I have passed your findings on to her, and she is I'm somewhat agreement with you on certain points.
Given us another project to follow up on lockdown 😂
Thanks for your interest.
Janice, + Chris.
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The family of my William Drummond.
Spouse. Hannah Rayner, Hull,1800
Richard Rayner James Drummond,1827
William Harland Drummond, 1830
John Martin Drummond, 1834
Thomas Sawdon Drummond, 1837
Henry Drummond, 1839
Sarah Ann Drummond, 1843.
Richard , William, and Thomas, born Hull
John, Henry, Sarah, born Scarborough.
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Good morning Janice,
Sorry to hear of your health problems. Hope you're not too seriously inconvenienced by the lockdown.
I've done all the thorough research from William Drummond in Hull downwards, including his bankruptcy, marriage, family and so on. I'm descended from RRJ, who seems to have a somewhat checkered history, eventually ending up in a pauper's grave two steps away from my GGGrandfather on another branch, who has a magnificent tombstone. Walking the places and their history does 'flesh' them out.
My great-grandmother (herself a Drummond) always said to my mother: "Never forget you've got blue blood in your veins. You're from the HIGHLAND Drummonds". To which my Grandfather replied: "Well it's bl***y thin by now!".
Anyway, there are a lot of candidates for our William who went to Hull. But beyond DoB approximations, I haven't yet found any corroborating evidence to support one or the other. The one thing I do know is that I can discount the one from Comrie.
Do you have any further information that confirms the link to the 1796 William?
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Where did the idea come from that William Drummond who went to Yorkshire was born in 1796? See my Reply #7 above.
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That's what I'm asking.
If this lady has some corroborating evidence then fine. Otherwise the only way of tracing may be to eliminate candidates one by one by tracing down their lines to find the only possible one.
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Indeed.
Good luck with that! It will be easy enough if any of them died in Scotland after 1855, but some could have died before that or elsewhere.
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Sorry, I'm a bit late to the party here, I'm also related to RRJ Drummond. Very interested in RobertR's GGranny, can you elaborate on her recollections please, did she give any clues on who Williams parents might be? Was she a Drummond from the same line?
I will try to get hold of William and Hannahs marriage cert, see if this gives any clues to the father.
Nice to meet you RobertR, we are decended from RRJ's eldest daughter Mary. We have running joke among the cousins regarding blue blood and castles, would love to speak to you in more detail, regards Chris
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Hello Drumkip,
Welcome to the board. Not been here long myself.
My GGranny was indeed a daughter of RRJ, but by his second marriage to Elizabeth Ann MILOW. Your ancestor Mary would be RRJ's child from marriage to his first wife Elizabeth MANSON (Nee BLAND) - it being her own second marriage.
Unfortunately my GGranny's comments is just a tale passed down from her son (my grandfather) via his daughter (my mother), so no more details than that.
The parish records of the marriage of William and Hannah (1924 - pre-GRO) only state "of this parish (William from Sculcoates, Hannah from St Marys). The Scotland link comes from the later censuses. The search for his birth/birthplace goes on though!
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That's 1824 of course!
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Hello Bob, so there is no fathers details on the marriage record then? that complicates matters even more. My mother met her GGranny Mary, what a fascinating woman. She ran boarding houses around the town centre in Hull following many years in the east end of london. You say RRJD went bankrupt? We did not know that.
lovely to make contact with you, look forward to finding out more, Chris
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Hi all.had another check on my ancestry I now have William Drummond born in 1795 was married to Hannah Rayner,in 1851 it looks like they lived at 7 new love>?,mew love ?Lane Tyson brick,not sure what all this means,,their son Thomas Drummond married Mary Ann Bright in 1858,Thomas was born 1837 died 1912 was my great great grandad,his daughter Sabina Drummond ,my great grandma was Born in Hull in 1859 she Married Robson Clarkson in1880 in Grimsby,where my grandma Alice Clarkson and my mother was Born ;going to track back again now ,to make sure I have William born 1795 correct parents ,was going to do it last week but been busy with shut down and lovely weather been giving all wooden garden furniture a sanding down and repaint ,
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The problem tracing the correct '1795' William is that they often fibbed about their age, usually to make themselves younger.
The William from Comrie is not our one. He remained in Comrie, married there and died there in 1858. At the moment I have 14 other candidates between 1787 and 1797 that I'm researching. It's gonna be a long slog!
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Hello peeps, enjoy reading your posts, live it when we bring people on board,
Bob, I made contact with you and Jan, a few years ago, like you had a bit of a break, doing other things in life, but got lots of time on my hands now, so can spend time persuing, those pesky rellies..
I have got the bit between my teeth again, on this new Drummond twist, having done my DNA, along with my brother and, cousin Chris, hopefully might get some fresh feedback.
Need to get our other cousin, Jim Curry on board, he loves a challenge.
I will endeavour to chase the Drum...
Regards to you....
Janice....
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Good to hear from you Janice! I did send some bits to Chris as she said you'd been a bit poorly. Good to see you're back in the saddle, so to speak.
I've had my DNA done two ways, once with Ancestry and once from a lab at a genealogy show about eighteen years ago. I'm sure it would show a link between us though how we could trace that to Drummonds isn't so clear. Particularly if there is only a limited pool of people tested.
Anyway, it keeps us all busy in our dotage!!! All the best, Bob & Jan.