RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Worcestershire Lookup Requests => Worcestershire => England => Worcestershire Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: Emjaybee on Wednesday 22 March 06 16:08 GMT (UK)

Title: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern COMPLETED
Post by: Emjaybee on Wednesday 22 March 06 16:08 GMT (UK)
JOSEPH WATKINS was said to be deported to Trinidad most likely after 1841. (wrong it was Autralia)

MARY ANN WATKINS born abt 1849 in COLWALL, Herfds and married THOMAS EDWARD SCRIVENS 15.8.1869 in Upton on Severn, Joseph is shown as her father.

Has anyone a link to the WATKINS family in COLWALL Herefordshire please?
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Puffcat on Wednesday 22 March 06 23:10 GMT (UK)

Joseph Watkins married Harriet Winwood in Colwall in Dec 1849
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Emjaybee on Thursday 23 March 06 08:38 GMT (UK)
Thank you for that, I bet thats him.  Mary Ann was born soon after.
Now to find where he stole the racehorses.
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Puffcat on Thursday 23 March 06 09:39 GMT (UK)

Newspaper archives ?
I think the Hereford TImes archives are available on film, and for Worcester the Berrow Journal is the Country's oldest newspaper.

Quarter sessions may help but this location is on the borders of 3 counties   :(
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Puffcat on Thursday 23 March 06 09:44 GMT (UK)


On 1851 censu Harriet aged 24 and MAry A aged 1 are in Colwall.
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Emjaybee on Thursday 23 March 06 10:58 GMT (UK)
Thank you for your help, I'd best go onto the Census Lookup board and see if a kind person will check 1841.

If I can narrow down his whereabouts I might have a ten year span when he was deported, that will make the search a bit easier.
I am in Worcester and close to the records office so I can check the records.
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Emjaybee on Thursday 23 March 06 11:07 GMT (UK)
I now find he married Harriett in Colwall in 1849, but he is missing in 1851. (He had been arrested and was in prison)

Maybe he was away from home or maybe just maybe this is the window through which he was deported to Trinidad.

I think a visit to the records office is due. I still await a reply from a distant relative of Joseph, in California, who is doing some research for me.
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Puffcat on Thursday 23 March 06 21:02 GMT (UK)

Is Harriet back with Mum and Dad in 1851 ?

Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Emjaybee on Friday 24 March 06 09:33 GMT (UK)
No, she is listed as on her own with daughter Mary.
I still await the reply from Marlene in CA, so I'm taking this as good news, as she might be chasing her relis.

For new readers:

We know that the plantations in Tobago existed as my elder brother (by20yrs) was asked to go and take charge in 1940's. A Joseph Watkins is indicated as being the missing man.

Mike
ps. Still no sign of an interactive Tobago History Web page.
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Emjaybee on Wednesday 29 March 06 09:01 BST (UK)
The plot thickens.

1850 Mary Ann baptised Colwall -Joseph and Harriet Watkins
1851 census Harriett and Mary aged 1 in Colwall
1854 Charles Edwin baptised Colwall - Harriett (living away from her husband)

Has anybody got 1841 census for Colwall, Herefordshire, to save me a journey to Hereford.


I wonder where Charles came from and is this the same Harriett?

Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Puffcat on Wednesday 29 March 06 15:33 BST (UK)

What does the Birth Certificate for Charles Edward say ?
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Emjaybee on Wednesday 29 March 06 15:44 BST (UK)
These items are ramdom bits I have collected off the web I have no certs etc.

Thank you for your interest

Mike
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Puffcat on Wednesday 29 March 06 15:50 BST (UK)

Copies of the birth certifiactes would be available from the
Ledbury Register Office
Town Council Office Church Street
Ledbury

It woul be interresting who Harriett put down as father, if anyone, for Charles...
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: netti on Sunday 30 April 06 21:23 BST (UK)
when Joseph married Harriet in 1849 he was a widower

see

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~parishregisters/herefordshire/colwall

don't know if this helps

Also, he is not in Colwall in 1841. Several reasonably close by but none very near.

netti
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Puffcat on Sunday 30 April 06 21:47 BST (UK)
At marriage he was working as a day labourer so could in 1841 be in any nearby Parish.
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: watway on Sunday 06 May 07 04:46 BST (UK)
I am gggrandaughter of Joseph Watkins of Colwall/Gt. Malvern married to Harriet Wingate/Winwood of Evendine/Colwall. Their daughter was MaryAnn Watkins married Thomas Scrivens. Joseph Watkins was convicted in 1850 of stealing 3 sheep on Hook Common. Worcester. Transported to Western Australia for 7 years. Freed on Ticket of Leave. Reinvented himself and started a new family with Irish immigrant girl ( from potato famine migrants) and had 4 daughters named Mary Ann, Harriet, Margaret and Ellen. Joseph married once more making it 4 times . Joseph left many descendants behind, many very succesful in farming and business life. I am interested in finding out who his first wife was before Harriet Wingate.
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Emjaybee on Sunday 06 May 07 09:35 BST (UK)
Oh joy, Oh bliss the anwer to the mixed up story in our family history!

I must do some searching in my records as I had given up on him.

Our story was so confused it is now wonder I couldn't find him. We had him stealing horses and going to Trinidad. I have been searching the distant family for him with no luck.

Mike
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Puffcat on Sunday 06 May 07 10:33 BST (UK)

Any idea of approximately when he was born ?
Could this be him
Joseph Watkins marries Mary Smith at Acton Beauchamp in 1833 ??
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Emjaybee on Sunday 06 May 07 12:34 BST (UK)
Oh dear, no joy!

I have from another researcher Joseph Watkins marrying Hannah William in 1849, in Machen, Monmouthshire.  father William Watkins.

No dates for his birth yet but looking.

Heres another
JOSEPH WATKINS/ANN WILLIAMS    Marriage:  30 SEP 1829   Lingen,(Could be Linton) Hereford, England
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: watway on Monday 07 May 07 05:44 BST (UK)
Hi, more info. on our Joseph Watkins. Born December 20 1822 . reg. at  The Church of St. James the Great Colwall (Colwall registers are online) also William Watkins (Joseph's Father) died April 26 1824 Colwall. Sarah Watkins (Jos. Mother ) remarried to William Hyde (Hide) 1826 Colwall. and had 3 more children. Joseph in on the 1851 Census in Wakefield Prison Yorkshire awaiting being sent to the Hulk ships. Look up Convict records of Western Australia online if you want to see for yourself his details. He came out on the 'Pyrenees' arriving May 1 1853.having been convicted Worcester 1.7.1850. convict number 1779  Has description of his height, features etc. Occ. Blacksmith striker. Worcester Berrows Journal 1850 has details of his trial, we read it at the Worcester Records Office. Joseph settled at York West. Australia. We have gone over the 1841 census for Jos. first wife, several possibilities but can not find any deaths of person before he married Harriet. I live in Western Australia. Mary Ann Watkins ( the Aussie version) is my Great Grandmother. Also we do not know Sarah Watkins maiden name if anyone has it or exactly where Wiliam Watkins came from. Thanks.
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Puffcat on Monday 07 May 07 11:03 BST (UK)
He would only have been 19 in 1841 - so is it likely he would be married ?
More likely an apprentice to a Blacksmith somewhere. He is down as a striker so perhaps he did not do an apprenticeship or finish one. A striked is someone who works the metal with a heavy hammer, often in twos beating the metal with alternate strikes until the smith has it the right shape  to make into a horse shoe or other wrought metal item. Are there any likely candidates in the households of smiths on the 1841 census in the area?
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Puffcat on Monday 07 May 07 11:22 BST (UK)

Does Sarah Hyde, formerly Watkins, give a place of birth on any of the censuses ?
 A William Watkins married a Sarah Cox in Hereford in 1820
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: watway on Saturday 12 May 07 09:21 BST (UK)
William Watkins (Jos.Father) was a Blacksmith at Colwall. There was also another blacksmith named Watkins there as well. A James also a blacksmith in 1813 (Colwall  reg.) On the 1841 Census there are several Jos. Watkins. there is an entry for a Jos 20 & Mary 20 at Lyonshall (is that too far away) Also have a marriage for Jos. & a Mary Powell in 1839  at Martley. I have a Mary Watkins died at Martley 1941 June Aug. Sept qtr but don't know much about that as its off BMD's. Sarah Watkins/Hyde is listed being born at 2 places on Censuses1861 Coddington and 1851 Leigh. Martley is up near Leigh . IGI has a Sarah b. at ActonBeauchamp 1789 and a Sarah  1790 at Colwall (LDS member) Also a Sarah Morgan at Leigh b 1794. Am I going around in circles here. I  am hoping I don't have to view every film copied...Barbara.
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: Emjaybee on Sunday 10 February 08 12:00 GMT (UK)
Further information:

Joseph carried on with his criminal acts in Australia , where he was convicted of stealing horse tack, and later two horses.

This confirms our family story that he was a horse thief.
Title: Re: JOSEPH WATKINS of Gt Malvern
Post by: watway on Tuesday 24 June 08 10:39 BST (UK)
Just to clarify Joseph Watkin's continued exploits in Western Australia.
 
On 27th April, 1863, charged with stealing a Harness off John Monger of York. The trial was on the 1st July, 1863, he pleaded not guilty and was found guilty and was sentenced to 12 Calender Months imprisonment with hard labour by the Supreme Court of Western Australia.

Report of Occurrence from the 23rd. Dec 1864 York Police Station. Western Australia. Dec 23, Constable Moye. Reports that the following articles have been handed over to Joseph Watkins by the order of the R.M.... 1 grubbing hoe, 2 axes, 1 hand saw, 1 shovel, 1 pair of hames, 2 collars, 1 cart saddle & breechen, 1 winter bridle, 1 back chain, 2 pair of trace chains, 3 small hammers, 2 gimblets, 1 pint measure, 1 fork. The above articles was (sic) seized by Sergeant Kelly on suspicion of being stole (sic) on a search warrant in April 1863 and put in to a cell and left since as they were not identified by any person as no record was of the articles.Watkins stated on his oath that they were his own property.

Report of occurence at York Police Station month of January 1876.
(condensed version)

 Joseph Watkins feloniously stole a riding Saddle, Collar and Hames from off a horse belonging to Mrs S. A. Smith. value of 2 pounds. Joseph went off and hid in the bush but was found and charged and sentenced to 6 months imprisonment.

Only the truth and nothing but the truth.