RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: jacdee on Saturday 18 March 06 16:24 GMT (UK)
-
Hi,
I've got a bit of a puzzle which i've been pondering over for a while and wonder if anyone else has any theories or suggestions really.
My grandad and his siblings went into an orphanage around 1918 (my grandad always told me he went between the ages of 8-10, and he was born in 1910). Grandad said both his parents had died young, around the same time, which was why they went to the orphanage.
Straight forward enough. But here comes the puzzle....
Grandad's dad - Henry - died in 1914. So that fits with what i've been told.
Grandad's mum - Jane - had another child in 1918, who died almost straight away. I then assumed that Jane may have also died around the time of the birth, and that would fit really well with the time scale that my Grandad had given me. But things are never that simple are they?! I searched the BMD for Janes death, and found one possibility, but it was in 1925. Afer um-ing and ah-ing i decided to buy the certificate. Well, its arrived and it is definately my Jane (it states she was the widow of Henry and his occupation was listed and it all matched).
So my puzzle is this - Why did my grandad and his siblings end up in an orphanage in 1918 when his mother was still alive (and lived for a further 7 years until 1925) ?
My grandad was told that his mother had died.
Is it possible that Jane's children were taken away from her after the birth of her illegitimate child in 1918?
Or do you think she just gave them up?
Any other theories would be great as i'm just going round in circles on this one!
Jacdee
P.S Sorry it's so long winded!!
-
Hi Jacdee :)
She may have been too poor to keep them. If she had no income she might have thought it better to relinquish them to the care of an orphanage. :'(
You might find out more if you located the records of the orphanage at the appropriate record office/archive.
So Sad isn't it , We don't know we're born do we ???
Good Luck in your search
Patricia ;)
-
Jacdee
Dredging up something that I've heard or seen - maybe the Who do you think you are? programme, it might be that Jane would not be able to afford to keep them. With two illegitimate children, I think that any out relief would be taken away. All it needed was someone to tell on her - Oh remembered it was Jeremy Paxman's ancestor.
Gadget
-
Hi Jacdee !!
What was her cause of death ?
maybe she was too sick to look after them - TB was a terrible thing in those days - maybe she had post partum blues and ended up in the hospital for a few years!!
Theres all manner of reasons .... !!
As their father had died during the war - they would be eligible for widows and orphans funds maybe!
Annie
-
Hi Jacdee
"any ideas welcome" ;D you don't say how old the siblings were, or if they all went together.....sometimes if it became too much for a single parent the older children were taken into a home, while the younger ones stayed with the parent.
Can't argue with your Grandpa, children were in an orphanage, parents did die ??? how long were they there?
Wendi
-
Maybe after Henry died in 1914 , she met Janes father and went to live with him and he wouldnt take, or couldnt afford to keep the others
Joe
-
Crikey - you guys were quick off the mark!!
On Jane's death cert it said she died of Heart failure caused by pulmonary tuberculosis. But she was working as a house keper, so i guess that means she wasn't in a hospital?
My grandad was 8, his brother joe was 16 so was sent to a naval training ship, Betty was 5 and Harry was 4. My grandad remembers them all going together. They went to a Barnardos orphanage in Alnwick, Northumberland. Would i find records for that do you think? My grandad only stayed at the orphanage until he was old enough to go onto the naval training ship aswell, but they all managed to stay in touch with each other.
Grandad's dad - Henry died of a cerebral haemorrage - I don't think it was war related.
Jacdee
-
Relating this tale back to my own grandfather who I believed was an orphan, it wasn't until I checked up on the Admittance and Application Registers that I discovered his mother was actually working to help support him in the school. I don't believe it was a case of having him "taken away from her" more a matter of her not being able to keep him and support them both so she took a job to pay for his keep.
Between the death of his father and when he went into the school later, I have no idea who he was with and this includes the 1881 census, but his mother was certainly working "in service" as it were for the same family for over 20 years. The lady of the house apparently had something to do with sponsoring his application too.
Definitely worth trying to get hold of any paperwork you possibly can from the Orphanage Records.
Mary
-
Hi Jacdee :)
Try this site it may give you some links
http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Alnwick/
Patricia ;)
-
Barnardos have a page regarding research, but it appears to relate only to people who have been in their care. I wonder if it would be worth contacting them to ask about your quest ???
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07t/
-
Thanks Wendi, i'll try and get in touch with them.
Do you think that the Northumberland record office would have the orphanage records too?
Jacdee
-
jacdee
You are doing Family History Research, - leave no stone unturned ;D
Much luck
and
Don't forget to let us all know how you get on
Wendi
-
Thanks, I'm going to email someone at Barnardos and see if they can help.
I just think its so sad that the children obviously thought their mother was dead, and she had no contact with them for the rest of her life (even if that was only 7 years). And yet she died not very far from where the children were. I can't begin to imagine how jane must of felt - being so close to her children, but not having any contact with them. Its so harsh.
Jacdee
-
Hi Jacdee,
Barnardo's will search for you for a fee ( I paid £20 for an initial search) but I think it costs more if they actually find any records. I had to have the request form signed by my mother as closest living relative when I applied for details of my grandmother.
Good luck
Nashua
-
Hi Nashua
Thanks for that info. I've just sent an email to Barnardos, so fingers crossed they'll be able to help. Where did you get the request form from?
Jacdee
-
Hello Jacdee - have sent you a pm.
http://www.rightofplace.irl.com/page5.html try this link there is a downloadable form
May have to scrub that i've just noticed it has an address in Dublin ???
-
Hi Jacdee
Barnardos sent me the form, and also a list of other organisations I could try as they werent successful in their search. Although they told me there was a 3-6 month waiting list ( in 2004 ) I had a reply in one month.
regards
Nashua
-
I concur with what others had to say. There is a good chance that the mother just couldn't keep them.
My husband's grandmother, Ivy, was in a similar position. Her father died ... and her mother simply couldn't afford to keep the kids. The older boys went into the Navy ... the older girls were already out of the house ... but Ivy was put into a Bernardo home ... and sent over to Canada where she was fortunate in her placement. Some weren't nearly so lucky.
Ivy eventually reconnected to her siblings ... some in New Zealand ... some still in England ... but she never forgave her mother. When one of her siblings informed her that their mother had died ... Ivy just didn't care.
Very sad ... but without the breadwinner, it was very hard to make ends meet. I suspect that no mother relinquished her children without considerable angst ...
So ... perhaps it was better that your grandfather think his mother was dead. That was preferrable to his knowing that she continued to live but didn't come and get him.
Good luck
Mary
-
Hi guys
Thanks for all your replies.
I think you are probably all right in the theory that Jane had no option but to put her children into the orphanage.
I have emailed Barnardos, so will have to wait and see if they can help trace any records.
I'm just glad that my grandad and his siblings all managed to stay in contact with each other.
Jacdee