RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: nadiawalton on Tuesday 14 March 06 14:29 GMT (UK)
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Hi all
I have a street of coal miners in Altofts in the 1881 census, and was wondering whether there was a mine nearby or whether mining was just a common job in the area?
Is there a list of mines/ databse of mines for that era? I'd love to find the nearest mine to them.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Nadia
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Yes there was an Altofts colliery near Normanton, I believe it was originally Pope and Pearsons colliery. It's past my bedtime here in Oz but I shall return to this thread tommorow if I get a chance, there is sure to be more info on it.
Denn
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http://www.wakefield.gov.uk/AboutWakefield/LocalCommunities/Normanton/default.htm
Mining
"The coming of the railways enabled the locally mined coal to be sent across the country, demand soon outstripped supply and many more shafts were sunk to reach the rich coal seams under the town."
"1886 saw disaster at the Silkstone colliery in Altofts, an underground explosion killed 22 men and 53 horses"
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cmhrc/153.jpg
Regards CP
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Everything seems to be coming together! :)
Would there be a list of people who died anywhere in record?
Thanks for your help!
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"1886 saw disaster at the Silkstone colliery in Altofts, an underground explosion killed 22 men and 53 horses"
Sep,
Silkstone colliery was south east of Barnsley (nowhere near Altofts) I think it could be meant to be the silkstone seam (a seam of coal that outcrops at or close to Silkstone)that was worked at Altofts.
Den
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Database of mining accidents:
http://www.dmm.org.uk/names/d1880-89.htm
02 Oct 1886 YKS Altofts, Silkstone Explosion, coal dust, ignition caused by shot firing 20
Unfortunately, the names are not listed for this one.
Regards CP
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Altofts - got masses of collateral ancestors in that area and Normanton - Stokes, Roberts, etc. They moved there from Willenhall, Staffs and the Wrexham, Denbighshire area in the 1860s -1890s.
Gadget
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Hi Nadia,
You are quite right Denn, a lot of pits had a Silkstone seam,
so named because it outcropped at Silkstone. Some pits in the
surrounding area also had the name Silkstone attached such as
Hoyland Silkstone pit, Wentworth Silkstone pit. etc.
Nadia,
try this site. www.cmhrc.co.uk
They have extensive lists of accidents and deaths in mining.For a small fee
they will also conduct a search for you.There is also a lot of information
re mining and it's history.
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Hi,
I have been trying to find out wether it was the silkstone seam or silkstone pit but to no avail.
Nadia when you ask about names of people killed, do you have any names or dates, as there were other collieries in the area.
All the best
Denn
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Hi Denn
Well this a bit of a long shot!
My Gt X5 Grandfather disappears between 1881 and 1891. He lived in Alftofts and was a coal miner.
If it was this Normanton mine he worked at, he could have been involved in the explosion in 1886.
I know it seems a bit of a long shot, but I just need to take a look down every road!
His name was William Sykes, b.1840 Bon Chapel (or just Chapel, Yorkshire!)
He lived in a place alled Cheesebrough Row, would this have been miners housing?
Nadia
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Apart from the little snippet that I sent by pm, I can't find anything. How did you go with that curious fox piece?
Denn
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I logged in and searched for it again (as it wouldn't let me reply unless I joined!) and I couldn't find it anywhere! I'll have another look today just to make sure.
I haven't been able to find much either, I'll have to have a look at old newspaper records for inquest details etc etc!
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sent you another pm
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wasn't the pit in Altofts called the West Ridng?
As well as Popes & Pearson, there was one called Dom Pedro (named after the emperor of Brazil) at Loscoe, there was a pit at St Johns (back of the catholic club) and one at Snydale.
Anyone researhing SPINK family in Normanton?
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Going to be very busy today, it's a lot of peoples birthday (the mother of my children, the person who looks after me, my soulmate and the lady I married) but I shall have a look at those as soon as poss'
Denn
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wasn't the pit in Altofts called the West Ridng?
As well as Popes & Pearson....there was a pit at St Johns (back of the catholic club) ....
Anyone researhing SPINK family in Normanton?
Have just discovered the death cert for my William Sykes! He died as a result of the roof caving in Stanley main Pit, St Johns Colliery in December 1882.
Can anyone tell me anything else about this pit?
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I don't have much on the St Johns mine, I beleive it began work about 1870 and consisted of 3 pits working the Haig Moor seam, the Silkstone seam (presumably where the accident occured) and the stanley pit; I would guess that all three were connected underground because the haig moor was the only one that employed surface workers. the coal was of several grades, haig moor and silkstone were heating and gas coal while the stanley pit mined the much more valued steaming coal (could possibly have been the barnsley bed seam). from the surface it looks as though the coal was moved by canal.
Finally many of the mines in the area belonged to the Pope family and a descendent of the Pope family is currently living in New Zealand - There must be a way of finding him/her.
Denn
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Almost forgot
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BRILLIANT!
Thanks ;D
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Hi Nadia,
You might find this site very interesting.
www.pitwork.net/stocks.htm
there are loads of photographs of general interest and an account of the
explosion at Altofts in1886. Even photo's of the mines
rescue team.
Tomkin
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Found this
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 17:13:17 +1300
Reply-To: "The mining-history list." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: mining-history <[log in to unmask]>
From: "O. J. & K. L. Pope" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: POPE & PEARSON LTD
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Hi List,
I am a new member.
You probably will not hear much from me as I have joined the list to gather information about my GGGG grandfather Samuel POPE and his brothers Richard, John Buckingham and Thomas who were involved in coal mining at Altofts and other sites in Yorkshire from around 1830.
They lived in London after shifting from Newton Abbot in Devon.
As well as mining they were involved in shipping, exporting and distributing coal and bricks.
Owen POPE
Nelson
New Zealand.
www.owenpope.com
Scheduled for launch Monday 5 March 2001
here is the link
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind01&L=MINING-HISTORY&P=R1673&I=-3
Denn
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dom pedro pit also fox pit and west riding pit all round altofts there were also glasshoughton pit fryston pit sharlston prince of wales collery in castleford we were a big mining community more likely if they lived in altofts they would work at one of the first 3 i mentioned but there was a lot around good luck
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My uncle Chuck SPINK use to work at St Johns.
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My Gt Gt Gt Grandfather William Sykes worked there in the 1870's.
William died 12/12/1882 at St Johns Colliery, Newland, Normanton, Yorks.
(Death cert here)
It says “fall of coal and bind upon him while at work in Stanley Main Pit. Instant Death.”
An inquest was held into his death (inquest here) and it was recorded as accidental death.
The fall of the coal happened at about 11 o clock that morning and his body wasn't found until half 7 that evening!
Wondering if anyone knows if there are any old photographs of the mine?
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for any photos i have put up a post all about castleford
good luck
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Wasn't there also a mine at Loscoe?
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Yes there was an Altofts colliery near Normanton, I believe it was originally Pope and Pearsons colliery. It's past my bedtime here in Oz but I shall return to this thread tommorow if I get a chance, there is sure to be more info on it.
Denn
You seem to know a lot about this mine.
My Grandfather John Scott was killed in this mine on 25th July 1947. He was caught in a disk of a coal cutting machine. I am trying to find out anything about him at the time of his death or anyone who might of known him.
I am still unfortunately still looking for his place of rest.
Scottie
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hi scottie
have a look at tis theres a john scott buried on 29/7/1947 hope its yours for you
http://www.wakefield.gov.uk/CommunityAndLiving/CemeteriesAndCrematoria/GenealogySearches/OnlineSearch/default.htm?surname=scott&forename=john&year=&noResults=20&startRow=1&exMatch=0
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Still looking for any Stokes and Roberts there - see my message above about a year ago.
Gadget
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hi scottie
have a look at tis theres a john scott buried on 29/7/1947 hope its yours for you
http://www.wakefield.gov.uk/CommunityAndLiving/CemeteriesAndCrematoria/GenealogySearches/OnlineSearch/default.htm?surname=scott&forename=john&year=&noResults=20&startRow=1&exMatch=0
Fantastic!
Thanks very much I visited the grave yesterday. My father will now be able to 'see' him for the first time, as he never ever met him due to the war.
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im glad it was the right one for you scottie.
gadget have you looked through them on that site there are quite a few of the names your looking for
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Not yet, PT. I seem to leave my own queries till last ??? ??? ???
I'll go look shortly. There were masses of my relatives there.
Thanks
Gadget :)
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I have a relative (William Jesse Gregory) who was a horse driver at a colliery in 1881 (census report). He moved to Calverley Green from Tewkesbury where he was married in 1880. He was back in Tewkesbury in 1887 after living in Derbyshire for a while (he was in Derbyshire in 1884). However, I like to find as much detail as I can about my ancestors. Please could anyone with local knowledge suggest at which of the collieries he worked? He was a waterman by trade and obviously used his knowledge of horses pulling barges on the Rivers Avon and Severn to obtain the job in Altofts (why he moved so far away is a mystery), I have no idea of his occupation in Ilkeston, but on his return to Tewkesbury he was back on the rivers.
Any suggestions gratefully accepted.
Tofgem
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Hi tofgem
I worked at St Johns Colliery in the 1960s. (Locally known as Newland) The pit was sunk on the land of Newland Estate and opened in 1870 just outside the boundary of Altofts. There is a footpath from Altofts to Newland estate and St Johns Colliery which runs parallel to houses built on Calvary Green Road. (Have a look on Google maps.) The mine is no longer there but it was in the area of the landfill site
Horses were used on the pit top as well as underground so William could have worked at the mine. The canal and the river Calder is within walking distance and some of the coal was transported on a track from the mine to barges on the canal. Perhaps this was where he worked
Have a look at the link http://www.stanleyhistoryonline.com/Newland-Estate.html
Coal from the mine was transported down a track to Stanley ferry.
Hope this helps
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Hi tofgem
I worked at St Johns Colliery in the 1960s. (Locally known as Newland) The pit was sunk on the land of Newland Estate and opened in 1870 just outside the boundary of Altofts. There is a footpath from Altofts to Newland estate and St Johns Colliery which runs parallel to houses built on Calvary Green Road. (Have a look on Google maps.) The mine is no longer there but it was in the area of the landfill site
Horses were used on the pit top as well as underground so William could have worked at the mine. The canal and the river Calder is within walking distance and some of the coal was transported on a track from the mine to barges on the canal. Perhaps this was where he worked
Have a look at the link http://www.stanleyhistoryonline.com/Newland-Estate.html
Coal from the mine was transported down a track to Stanley ferry.
Hope this helps
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Oh, please forgive me, those of you who have been accessing and posting on this site for a number of years. I seem to type out my message and then, getting my fingers in a twist, lose everything from the screen. It might be that, by some quirk of fate, my messages have got through - I doubt it, though. So here goes, for the third time!
Dennwood - and I'm only saying that because, to all intents and purposes, you have been active or posting at the most recent date. Please accept my apologies if you are unable to help.
Someone on the site was asking about a marriage of Henry Deakin and Sarah Hudson - my great great grandfather and grandmother. I have a copy of their marriage certificate in my possession.
Henry was one of the deputies killed on 2nd October 1886 at the Pope and Pearson Colliery (Silkstone Seam) in Altofts, West Yorkshire. My grandfather, Alfred, was one of the son's of Henry
and Sarah, and my late mother, Lily, along with Clarence, George and Mary (all deceased) were
Alfred's children with Hannah Maria Brain whom he married on 25th December 1899 in St Mary Magdalene Church, Church Road, Altofts.
Henry and Sarah Hudson were married on 18th October 1857 at The Parish Church, in the Parish of
Eyton (could be Eyton on the Weald Moor) in the County of Salop (and old name for Shropshire).
Both were unmarried at the time and living in Trench (don't know where that is). Meshech Deakin was Henry's father, a collier, and Jeremiah Hudson was the father of Sarah, also a collier.
The curate was R G Mead, and witnesses were John Newman and Ann Owen. Henry signed and
Sarah added her mark.
I have some other information about the tragedy from another relative, Clare, whose grandmother was Elizabeth Bednall (nee Deakin) and my grandfather's sister.
Also of interest, might be something relative to the Hudson family. There was a murderer called John George Haigh who, according to my late mother, lived in Pope Street (yes, the Pope Street named after the owners of Pope and Pearson Colliery, and there is a Pearson Street in the village)
in Altofts. Sarah Deakin, nee Hudson was, I believe, a relative of Haigh as his mother was a Hudson prior to her marriage to Haigh.
Haigh was convicted of the murder of Olivia Durand-Deacon, although he did confess later to having murdered another 8!! He had been very bright as a boy, attending Queen Elizabeth Grammar School in Wakefield, a chorister at the Cathedral there and an organ scholar.
I have some other information and press cuttings about him, too.
I also have information about Teddy Deakin (stage name of Horace Bednall). He appeared with Margaret Lockwood and Billy Dainty, to name but two well-known celebrities, and he was also a
dancer, pianist, musical director and Pantomime Dame!!
If you are able, by whatever means, to forward on some of this information, that would be very
kind. I also give permission for you to divulge my email details so that any interested parties
can make contact.
I live in the village of Altofts, with Michael, my 67 year old husband (I'm 73 next month) and our two Yellow Labrador dogs, Poppy and Magnus. The colliery site was just down the road - perhaps about half a mile or a little more. I am happy to try to answer queries or do some investigations on behalf of interested parties, should they so wish.
I'm hoping that, this time, I don't get my fingers in a knot and that this email will be read.
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Hi Lablover,
Some fascinating history there, especially the bit about John Haigh - reading about him makes me wonder how much his crimes may have been rebellious of his strict upbringing; that apart he wasn't a very pleasant person.
Coincidence ? I have Daikin/Daykin (could it be Deacon?)in my family line, however mine originate from Derbyshire and I believe before that (though I don't have proof) from Shropshire - I have just re-read your post and notice that your Deacon's have a Shropshire link, However none of your names seem to sound alarm bells for me.
Denn
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Hello Dennford ... and I think I owe you an apology; I think I put Dennwood, and if I did, I'm so sorry and hope you will forgive, please.
Well, my Deakin lot originated in Shropshire, Much Wenlock etc. and when researching I do find
that variants of the name, as you suggest, crop up. It happened a lot because of the way some people spoke, or what the enumerator, at the time, wrote down from what he/she heard. They were supposed to be 'educated' people, these enumerators, but as I have done some work for the FreeBMD in the UK, I have, on occasions, had to question that being so.
Here, in Yorkshire, Deakin can, if pronounced badly, sound very much like Daykin. I used to work, in Leeds, as a young gel (oooh too many moons ago now, when I was probably 18 or so) and one of the bosses was a Mr Daykin - can't remember his forename unfortunately.
Anyway, I live in Altofts, as you are probably aware, and if I am able to be of help in the future, I wouldn't mind at all if you were to contact me.
I've just signed up for another stint with transcribing for the FreeBMD. I used to do this about 5 years ago for a syndicate called Yorkshire Volunteers. I enjoyed it immensely and think I transcribed about 33,000 deaths (sadly).
Now I'm about to join another syndicate, don't know what the brief is, but looking forward to the co-ordinator making contact with me on Thursday. It's such a worthwhile thing to do if one is interested, and as I type at 90 words per minute, I am able to get through many transcriptions.
So nice of you to email, thank you.
Pauline
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No apology needed.
I was in leeds last year and was surprised at how little the city centre had changed since I was previously there (probably the 1960s). As for typing I can also do 90 words (per hour) ;D but at the moment 5.00 am I need to get out into my garden before the heat of the day - expecting another scorcher ( 40 deg), which may sound okay but I can assure you it aint nice.
Denn
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Hello, Dennford ... and thank you, once again for your email.
Good to know that you were in the nearby City of Leeds, last year. I'm amazed that you don't think it has changed that much, though - I used to work there, firstly at Geo. Bray at Blackman Lane, Leicester Place, a good walk from the University, subsequently down on Meadow Lane, near Leeds Bridge at a Glass Merchants, Thomas Bennett & Sons, then at Thorn Security (Burglar Alarms etc.)
not far from the Dark Arches, and then at Department of Employment opposite Quarry Hill Flats, having transferred from that same department in Wakefield. I also worked in the City at a Solicitors, Reed, Hind, Stewart and, also, as a temp at the Leeds Stock Exchange. All these might, or would, have been interspersed with other jobs some of which, now I'm in my dotage, I can't recall.
Michael was at H M Customs & Excise for many years, in the city first, and then they relocated to Peter Bennett House, LS16, the Lawnswood area of Leeds. The building was so named because Peter Bennett was killed whilst doing some investigative work to do with drugs, I believe.
Neither of us has been back for many years, I suppose primarily because of my lack of mobility and we find that, now we are amongst the old, unwashed, unfettered by employment and supposedly, idle rich, we can get most things closer to home.
We have snow today, and thank the Lord it was good and dry and sunshine yesterday for our trip to see my ailing cousin, Christine, in the midlands. We have just been to collect our two Labradors from kennels, and thank God for our Yeti 1.2 TSI.
I'm not saying it was an arduous trip, but the kennels are, of necessity, quite a way off the beaten track, along a windy and narrow dirt road bordered by fields. When they built the A1M they also built a bridge to facilitate access, but made the approach to that damn thing, twisty and turny and on an incline. You should have seen Hettie the Yeti purposefully inching her way along it and she's only 1.2 TSI but what a great heart she has. Coming down was like being on the Cresta Run ... I think our Magnus thought he was going to slide into the front, but thankfully, we are good owners and have a cage for the dogs in which they travel.
I'm now going to go on to the Yeti forum and rub the noses of those who go to great expense with 4 x 4 Yetis and tell them how amazing ours performed. No doubt some well meaning bloke, and
there are a few who are apt to get up one's nose on that forum, will be berating me for having
dared to enter into their world - do I care, not a bit. I don't often post because apart from myself,
and Suzz, a lady living in Australia and a Yeti owner, the others are men, knowledgeable about the
internal combustion engine - I just drive it!
Still snowing, so now apart from Michael walking the dogs, we are cosy and warm in our small, but nicely decorated and furnished, detached home. You probably appreciate the cooler spells that you might get out there in Australia, much as we, here, appreciate some warmer days - you can't have it all, can you?
Kind regards
Pauline
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Hi there,
I noticed whilst looking for family information that your research interests include Baines and Dixon and the forums are to do with mines. People in my family were always lead to believe that my Great Grandfathers (Asa Baines) Grandmother had something to do with a mine. She was called Emma Dixon and I believe she married a Joseph Baines. We think there's a link with a mine in Stanley or the surrounding areas but I've had no luck searching so far!!
I hope you might be able to help me with this.
Many thanks,
Alice.
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I think my great grandfather was the manager of Popes and Pearsons mine in Altofts when the disaster happened.I believe the FISHER family,my name, originated in the Midlands. But I know we had relatives in Willenhall! There you go