RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: robjam on Sunday 12 March 06 00:56 GMT (UK)
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I have been shocked by the number of illigitimate births in my tree and am still finding more :o. How many do you have?
Regards,
Rob
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Get over it Rob! We all have skeletons in the cupboard.
Cheers,
Al
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icky word that....bastards. I always have disliked it.
Only 6? I have about twenty so far! Some of the women in my family had three or four each!
I think I broke a longstanding tradition by NOT being pregnant or having had a child out of wedlock.... ;D
I find them fun, (the "oh you bad girl!" ;D thing) yet annoying, as that line can't go much further.
Nina
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Al, don't skeletons make the search more interesting? By the way, exactly how many siestas have you had today?
Rob
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Nina, sorry about the word. I've grown used to it over the years, usually with the word fat in front. 8)
Rob
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;D
Love that Austin Powers!
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Great question, Rob!!! ;D
But I couldn't respond to your poll, much as I would like to, because I'm still trying to establish this. Have found a marriage for one of my ggggrandfathers which WASN'T to my ggggrandmother, but almost certainly him! 8) So far, I'm totally unable to find the marriage that I am descended from!! ::)
So, depending on:
* whether the latter marriage came before or after the one I have found, or
* if indeed it occurred at all!
my gggrandmother, her three sisters and brother may all be bastards!!
MarieC ;D
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Dear Rob
I have a feeling that it's more unusual to not find em. My gggrandparents couldn't marry as he was her uncle by marriage - she took care of her aunt when dying and stayed to take care of the children, and had another five. The total answer will probably be lots.
Linda
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annoying, as that line can't go much further.
Nina
Yes, very frustrating.
Always worth looking for bastardy bonds though.
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Admittedly, I had two mothers who had three children each outside wedlock so it was easy for me to find "more than six".
Of my illegitimates, there is only ONE who has named the father, and he signed the certificate for his child. They never married, but they are named as man and wife on the daughter's marriage certificate years later.
Of the rest, some hinted at the father's surname with a middle name of the child.
Nina
PS: what are bastardy bonds and where are they held?
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You should find bastardy bonds among parish poor law records along with settlement and removal orders at the county archives.
Example of info given:
bastard daughter of Amy SMITH born 13 Jul 1843 reputed father James OXLEY, servant
Wonderful IF you can find one.
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Thanks bearkat,
Fortunatley for me none of my illegitimates are in my direct line as yet, so I have just let them be. Just as well since I live in australia by the sounds of it, hehe!
Nina
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I've found two so far, but one is more of a relative than a direct ancestor.
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Some poor law records are available on CDrom.
It's worth looking.
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I have lots.... in one family of 9 children the husband was killed after the birth of number 2. You might let her off one, but you cannot say that seven were accidental.
I would love to have a chat with her now ;D
Steph.
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I think I'm in triple figures now.
You could say it runs in the family - but you can only sure of half the family!
All good fun.
P ;D
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I have 9 by one lady (lady!?) - my ggg grandmother. Beat that!!
I'm still trying to find out how she managed to bring them up without a husband but I think the truth is gradually dawning.. :o ;) ;D
Jill
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probably an extra five if I can't find my parents marriage certificate :o
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My worst experience was finding a new rellie in New Zealand and telling him his father was not only adopted but born in the workhouse! He knew nothing about it and neither did his living mother... Dad was dead so couldn't answer any questions.
Laurina
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I voted 0 because there are no Bastards, plenty of bastards however!!! Am I being pedantic or did the grammar make a difference to my understanding?
- I wasn't trying to be clever I did misunderstand the capital letter!!
Ellen
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I was going through some Norfolk Parish records last week and was so surprised at the number of "base born" (the phrase used there) children being born, that I made a rough calculation: it was something like one in eight. I am rather surprised that my ancestors can only come up with 5%!
meles
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when my kids were born I wasnt married to there dad and we never got around to putting his name on there birth certs (he has since died)
My ex husband adopted my 2 daughters
My boys didnt want to change there name so were not addopted
So are my boys bastards because they dont have a fathers name on there birth cert just a line
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O'h dear, i haven't found any yet, i feel quite left out!!!!! :o
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I've found about 4 ish but there are some more that I'm trying to confirm.
I've quite a lot that were touch and go - the bride must have positively waddled down the aisle with the shot gun behind her.
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I have 9 by one lady (lady!?) - my ggg grandmother. Beat that!!
Oh dear, I can! My 3 x Great grandmother had eleven 'baseborn' babies.
To be honest I havn't counted all the others but there are a lot and like wheeldon I have several ladies who must have been very pleased to leave the church without giving birth at the alter!
Suey
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I find all of this quite amazing and will certainly use some of the search tips.
The result of the poll so far gives a Bastard average of about 4.71 for each of those who have taken part. This has been calculated by using the median in each interval and by assuming a value of 8 for the interval that is not closed by an upper value.
This last figure is a very conservative estimate, especially if some of the replies are taken into account.
If you assume that there are 30 000 Rootschatters, a figure that will soon be true and that will happen on an easily predictable date, that would give Rootschatters an estimated grand total of 125 000 Bastards.
However, there will be duplicate Bastards amongst some Rootschatters making the true figure more difficult to ascertain. Maybe someone who finds stats vaguely interesting could calculate this.
I've just bored myself almost to death.
Thankyou to everyone who has so far taken part.
Rob
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I've voted 6, cos that's the max. I've got lots in the non-direct lines - and still growing ;D
It means that I only have 7 great grandparents - who, oh who was my Margit's paramour ???
Gadget
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I've lost count
My granny was one of four children born to my great granny...each child had a different father and great granny never married.
My 2x great granny had three children to her husband and seven more children after he died... all to different fathers.
There are quite a few more in my tree :o
Elaine
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Hi
I have a lady (perhaps not the right word) in my family tree that had 4 illigitimate children before she married. The funny part is that her surname was BREEDING. She certainly lived up to her name.
Sunflower
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It changes on a daily basis ;D
Seriously though my gt grandmother was illegitimate. She was born Challinor, raised as a Rushton, married a man christened Jones, and they had a son who was a Cartledge!! Beat that!
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I stopped counting, but what amazes me is that there was ever so much stigma attached to being illegitimate, almost every family I've come across had illegitimate offspring in it somewhere.
I could actually slap my gr. grandmother for all the time and expense she has cost us in tracing the tree.
My mother thought her great aunt was her grandmother and that her father only had a brother and a sister, all illegitimate.
It turns out that gt. grandmother's husband cleared off to the U.S. and forgot to send for her and the 5 kids so she appears to have given them away, moved in with some man (unknown) and had my grandfather at age 42.
Her oldest daughter, who my mum thought was her gran helped raise him, as did his half brother and another half sister.
We traced this branch of the "family" all the way back to Ireland in the late 18th century only to find out that grandfather was Ann's illegitimate son and not her daughter's child which meant, of course, that grandfather was a Gibbons by name only and all the research had been a waste of time.
I suppose Ann had been able to give him the Gibbons name as it was her legal name but it has been very confusing.
Sheila
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Rob,
Looks like your poll results are showing a bimodal distribution. I think this tells us that our ancestors fell into two categories:
1. Made the odd mistake
2. Didn't give a damn
Cheers,
Al ;D
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Good comment, Al!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
MarieC
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bimodal distribution
'cuse me Mr C ! ....... but does that phrase come from your French research then :P
My family are as pure as the driven snow .... as my Immaculate Conception great Grandmother shows ...... ::) ::) ::) ::)
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The Rev John Monkhouse made a note in the parish register of Bramshott, Hants:
"Of the 72 marriages in the last 10 years, ending 1820, not less than 69 females have been unchaste before marriage"
extract from Comyn's New Forest
So, it's looks as if you only got married if you had to in Bramshott. ;D
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I'm quite surprised actually, I've only got one so far and that was 1900, so it looks like nearly all my girls were good ones!
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I got a shock when I opened the envelope for my GGG Grandfather's birth. Then I found out his mother's sister also had an illegitimate child. At least the father's name was given on my GGG Grandfather's certificate though.
Andrew
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1 to g-grandmother Jane - named after the man she married a couple of months later.
2 to g-grandmother Helen - she claimed to be married when she registered the births (to 2 different men), but no sign of a marriage record.
5 to gg-grandmother Harriet, who claimed to be married to the same man on each birth cert, but he shows up single and living elsewhere on all censuses!
2 definites to gg-grandmother Sarah (father unspecified), plus a strong chance that the child born just after her marriage wasn't her husband's...
1 to gg-grandmother Mary Ann.
1 to gg-grandfather John - the lady in question obtained a maintenance order against him!
That's just the direct line... ::)
Rambler
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I'm quite surprised actually, I've only got one so far and that was 1900, so it looks like nearly all my girls were good ones!
Or lucky :)
Gadget
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I'm quite surprised actually, I've only got one so far and that was 1900, so it looks like nearly all my girls were good ones!
Or lucky :)
Gadget
Yeah, thats probably it!
They were country people afterall!
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Actually, thinking about it, I had more 'shot gun' weddings than anything else!
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My grt granny came very close, they married on the 10th march and my granny was born on the 11th :o
Just imagine the scene at the alter - midwife and GP were bridesmaid and best man, I spect ;)
My poor old Mum was horrified and tried to deny it, but I showed her the Family Bible. She said it had been written in wrongly.Sadly, she died before I got the certificates.
Gadget
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i have found that there are a lot of "premature" births in my family :-*
erin
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A lot of "close calls" but then it was customary to make sure all was well.
Dave
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Have just discovered that hubby's GGreat Aunt had 6 or 7 illegitimate children...Hmmm.
I have now heard from another researcher that in fact Susannah was a "Lady of the Night"
Yikes....Hubby's mother would be rolling in her grave....so..
Don't say anything...OK?
India
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Have just discovered that hubby's GGreat Aunt had 6 or 7 illegitimate children...Hmmm.
I have now heard from another researcher that in fact Susannah was a "Lady of the Night"
Yikes....Hubby's mother would be rolling in her grave....so..
Don't say anything...OK?
India
Had to laugh, the secrets that come out, my great aunt told me my great grandmother's eternal boast was that it never took less than 2 coppers to get her into a cell, even in her 70's :-[ :-[
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We have far too many to mention! Well I did mention some and got into a lot of trouble! My Nan's brother was married to someone, then went off with another and had six children with her - but they never married. I though this was interesting but unfortunately one of his daughters in law didn't and sent me a rather nasty letter.
AND we are still not allowed to mention to my 92 year old (other) Grandmother that everyone in the family knows that she was at least four months pregnant when she married - AND she wouldn't speak to me for 5 years because I lived in sin before marrying my first husband. Double standards or what ;D
Sue B
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Sue B,
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's a question of do what I say, not what I do, isn't it??
MarieC
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Sue B
That is not an unfamiliar story. A friend of mine told me something very similar the other day!!!
As Marie says do what I say, not what I do!
Kerry
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As my old granny used to say, misquoting Shakespeare' It's a wise child that knows it's own father'
johnl
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I'll have to remember that one for the dinner table!!!
Kerry ;)