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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: wobble on Friday 10 March 06 16:50 GMT (UK)
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can anyone help? Eliza Isley Kelly was born in Spain of British parents in about 1812, she lived in Stockton all her life marrying a Robert Robinson and she died in 1888. Her father was William Kelly who ws a foot soldier, I don't know who he was married to. I have researched and think he was fighting in Spain at the time of her birth, but am stuck as to how to try and find her birth certificate. On the 1851 census it states she was "born in Spane of british parents". some records have said she was born in "Isley Blou" but I wonder if that is a misinterpretation of her name, as the Isley bit seems to have been passed down 2 generations as far as I can trace.
any help much appreciated!
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I don't know that you would find a birth certificate in 1812 in England or across the sea. You might be able to locate a baptism. Sometimes parent would wait until they were back "home" to have the child baptised or recorded in the local parish as baptized. Sometimes when that happens the vicar may actually put the birthdate in the record also.
This is the family in 1841?
HO107/317/26/folio 26
Stockton-on-Tees
Paradise Street
Robert Robinson, 30, Butcher, N
Eliza Robinson, 30, N
William Robinson, 10, Y
Mary Robinson, 8, Y
Henry Robinson, 6, Y
Joseph Robinson, 4, Y
Eliza Robinson, 2, Y
Elizabeth Robinson, 4 months, Y
William Kelly, 55, Shoemaker, Y
Thomas Hornsby, 40, Labourer, N
From the 1851 census (HO107/2383 folio 678 page 14) her father William was born in Red Lion.That would be the parish of Hart. You might try a parish marriage in Co. Durham but it did not look good looking at the Joiner data base. Then look for a burial in Stockton for a female Kelly about the same age as William, the record might say wife of .... you will at least get a first name. If Eliza is marrying in 1830 you'd think they would be there at least a year before.
Just some suggestions off the top of my head.
Janis
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thanks for that, yes this is the right family, her marriage is in the Joiner index, but I am stumped as I dont know who her mother was, but I have some leads and someone is going to Kew and will try and have a look at the army births and marriages etc for me.
you have also cleared a little mystery as I was wondering about the Red Lion Bit, where is Hart exactly? it might help with my research.
many thanks
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Sorry I didn't make it clear--William Kelly's marriage--I couldn't find a good one in the Joiner index. Hart is a little east and north of Stockton. Here is a good site that shows towns, the parish church served and when when and if you click onthe parish church you will get a very simple map.
http://www.durham.gov.uk/recordoffice/dro.nsf/vwebplaces
Probaby your best bet might be Kew. I don't know if they record marriages and such but you could find when he came back from campaigns and where he mustered out at.
Janis
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thanks, every little helps!
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Hello
I have Eliza Isley Kelly in my husbands family tree she married a Robinson If you contact me I have the details right ot today.
Hazel
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thanks Hazie, I have sent an email to you, my connection to Eliza is that she is my great great great grandmother on my father's side and I seem to have hit a brick wall with her now, but someone is going to Kew and may be able to get some more info for me.look forward to hearing from you
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Hello
I have her fathers name it is William Kelly and I have him on the 1851 census. I have not received any e-mail from you other than this one through the rootsweb if you want to contack me directly my e-mail is snowie48ATblueyonder.co.uk Moderator comment. Email amended, in accordance with rootschat policy, in order to avoid spam. Please use the pm system
I have all the information from her own over and for her husband.
Someone got in touch with me about 6 weeks or 2 months agao and said they had another generation abc from Eliza but before I could get an address copied or a print of the e-mail my computer crashed and I cannot find them now.
I have made contact with someone who is a relation of one of the Robinsons but that is all.
It is actually my husband who is the conection it is one of his grandmothers ?? times over I will have to work it out.
It works out it is his Great Great Great Grandmother. I think I have that right.
Get back to me and we can pool information and contacts. ok
Kind Regards
Hazel Snow
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Hi Hazel
I have a lot of information on the Robinson side through a website http://members.dodo.co.au/owen/
this person has done a lot of research and it is from this that I found Eliza, I traced her death certificate, her death was registered by her daughter Martha Groskop (nee Robinson),and this led me to a contact who was related to the Groskop family (this gets very complicated!) between us we have tried to find Eliza's grave (she is buried in Oxbridge cemetery in Stockton but has no grave stone unfortunately). My interest in her is because she is my great great great grandmother, her daughter Eliza married George Bramley, their daughter Margaret (my great grandmother) married John Cook, who in turn had my grandfather Edward Cook, (told you it was complicated!) What fascinates me is the fact she was born in Spain, and I seem to be stuck now as I cannot find out any other info about her father William Kelly apart from the census info which says he was a foot soldier and originates from Red Lion near Hart. I presume that you will have the same info as me? I have been on various websites to try and find a bit more about William and where he might have been as a soldier, but really need to go to Kew to find out more. He was obviously fighting in Spain at the time of Eliza's birth but I have no idea of who her mother was, and this is where I am now stuck completely! so if you have any further info I would be grateful.
If you like I will try and email you my bit of tree which explains a bit better my connection to Eliza, sounds as if your husband and I could be cousins umpteen times removed!!
regards
Anne
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Hello again.
Yes I am about at the same point as you. I have actually found an entry on the National Archives site last night regarding William Kelly and he came out of the arm in 1814 so it must have been just after Eliza was born.
I tried to do a little reading up and apparently the wives of foot soliders did go with them but they were realy no more than skivies for them.
The other question I am wondering is was his wife english or spanish?
I pass or should I say did pass Oxbridge cemetery every day when I or Michael visited each other whilst 'courting' he lived a couple of blocks away from it and both mothers still live very close to it and we pass it if we go from one mums to another mums.
Micheals connection - now this is even more complicated - is that Michaels mother was a Hampton who married a Hay who - so Michaels Grandmother was the product of a Robinson and Hay marring - so it so far. - now the complicated but -Michaels Great Grandmother was Eliza Isley Robinson whose parents were both Robinsons - Elizabeth Brown Robinson married Thomas Robinson - Can you imagin what problems I have had with this one. Elizabeth Brown Robinson's parents were Eliza Isley Kelly and Robert Robinson. It is a nightmare and to cap it all I have 3 lots of Robinson in my family tree and one of michaels cusins has married a Robinson all different families.
I have no probelms sending you my family tree that I have created I can send it in gencom format if that suits.
The people you were in contact with I think I have spoken too also they came from Stockton too and moved I think it is to New Zealand or Australia there surname is Owen.
I will have a look around about the Hart information.
I might be going up home this week as I have a few days holiday planned I want to go into the archives and have a search. If I can sort logitics of transport out - cars etc I will be going. I will let you know o.
Hope to hear from you asap.
Hazel
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Hi Hazel
have just emailed you my tree but not sure if the file will open for you. let me know if it hasnt worked and we will try snail mail!
as far as I know Eliza's mother was british as on the census it says "born in Spane of british parents". she was married to Robert Robinson on the 24th of June 1830 and he was a butcher, and it seems that she had her father living with her until he died but I have not had much luck in tracing his death, have you? what did you look at on the archives site? this researching is like a bug, you cant shake it off can you?
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Hazel, just looked at the tree and your husbands' Elizabeth Robinson was the sister of My Eliza Isley Robinson (2 of Eliza Robinson nee Kelly's daughters) so we are definitely related somehow!
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Hello
Picked this up yesterday on the National Archvies site.
Royal Hospital Chelsea: Soldiers Service Documents WO 97/1240/129
WILLIAM KELLY Born SAINT NICHOLS, Durham Served in Royal Artillery Discharged aged 36 . WILLIAM KELLY Born SAINT NICHOLS, Durham Served in Royal Artillery Discharged aged 36 Royal Artillery: Kay - Kem The National Archives, Kew
Date range: 1799 - 1814.
I think this is our William.
I have e-mailed them to ask what I would get if I paid for this information.
I think it might cost £10.00 my friend has soemone who goes down theire on a regular basis - my firend works for the local archives department. Good to have friends in the right places. She is at Nottingham at the oment watching Ice hockey so I will have to speak to her later .
It says he was born at Durham on that information. Hart will be in Teeesside archives as well as in Durham so I might try and get there this weel to one or the other to search the parish records. Again I have a friend who lives in Stockton who goes regularly and if she is going she will have a look for me.
I will e-mail her after this.
Where abouts do you live?
talk to you soon
Hazel.
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Hi, we are also interested in the parents, specifically the mother of Eliza Isley Kelly. Eliza's son, Henry Robinson (Boilersmith & Riveter, born 1835) is my fiancee's great great great grandfather. We know that William Kelly (Shoemaker, born 1786) served in the Peninsular war & that Eliza was born between 1812 & 1814 in 'Isley Blou', of which we can find no info' of such a place, baffling is not the word. We also think that William met Eliza's mother in Spain during the war, the problem here is that servicemen were not allowed to bring back to England non British. It would be amazing if someone could fill in the missing jigsaw piece that is Eliza's mother.
Regards
Allan
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Hello
I am getting a ittle confused here I have just found some mail from Wobble about an e-mail I was suppost to have received but haven;t got and I gather Allan you are a new person interested in ROBINSONS.
Help it was hard enough sorting the names out when I had 2 Robinsons marrying and all their offspring - there are offspring coming out of the woodwork now.
I noticed that Henry was a boilersmith - the other strange thing about all this is Michael - my otehr half his mother's grandfather was a Hay who married one of the Robinsons. Marmaduke Hay lived in the same street as Henry Robinson at one point and guess what - - - Duke Hay had a boilersmith business. I wonder if he worked for him. They would have been related Henry would hve been Marmadukes uncle by arriage - I think.
Hazel
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Hi Hazie, yes I am a new member to this rootschat & my fiancee Kathryn Hudson is a descendant of Henry Robinson. The reason why we have started to look into the family tree is because our daughter was born in January of this year & we decided to call her Islay (a slight variation of this name Isley).
Regards
Allan
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Hell Allan
I think that is great. I began mine after my daughter was born for something to do as I was not working. I had wanted to begin doing it for ages but not time I had given my daughter my maiden name and the name Jane and it was not until a few years later I found out that it was a common thing to do - put maiden names in the middle of full names and my family were doing it a centary ago plus I had forgotten my grnadmothers name was Jane.
Which one of Henry's children does your girlsfriend descend from I have beenlooking and cannot find Henry after 1881 - did he die he would have only been young he was 47 in 1881
I have just been checking the Tees Valley records for the marriages of Eliza and Mary to work there marriages out.
Regards
Hazel
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Hi Hazie, Katy is the descendent of Eliza Robinson, a shopkeeper who sold fish on Stockton Quay, born 1866 who married Joseph Gibson Rowntree, born 1865, a ship platers helper who died 1935. Their daughter Eliza Rowntree married Bernard Riley whose son was Katy's grandpa also called Bernard Riley.
Who were Marmadukes parents?
Regards
Allan
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They are Hay They had a boilersmith buisness in the town Will hay is one of the relations. Nancy my mother in Law it is her cousin.
I can send you a file of the family tree if you wish.
I can send it in Gedcom form if you wish.
Michaels lot descend from Eliza Isley Robinson the grandaughter of Eliza Isley Kelly
It is very complicated
Hazel. :P ???
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Hello again.
That sounds great having a however many grandmother selling fish. There are some great photos around of fish sellers in Stockton. She might be one of them.
Hazel.
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Hi Hazel, it would be great if you could send the file of the family tree. We must keep searching for the 'missing pieces'!
Regards
Allan
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Oh Hazel what have we started! I emailed you last night (sunday) but NTL are doing something at the internet so if you havent recieved it let me know.
I have got a good file of the family tree and my connection to Eliza, but dont know how to put it as GEDCOM?
Allan if you go on to the website mentioned earlier it has really good info about the Robinsons, I still think Eliza's mum was british as the census says born of british parents. I too have searched and searched for more info on Isley Blou and have got befuddled by it all. lets hope Kew turns up something!glad to know it's not just me that is stuck.
Anne
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HelloI am loosing track of who I am talking to now.
I know there are 3 of us in this 'conversation'.
I received a message from the National Archives and they said they were going to get back to me as to what I get for my money.
Whilst waiting for that I am going to see if anyone is going to Durham Archives - as it looks as though I will not get there now - I have to work. To look at St Nicholas parish records as that is where these records in London state he was born.
I will keep thinking of other things to look at.
I agree I think the parents were both English.
As for sending a gedcom it depends what family tree progream you are using.
Let me know and then I will see if I can help.
It is not difficult to send one.
Talk soon.
Hazel
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Hi Hazel
yes there are 3 of us in the conversation now! and all related to Eliza Isley Kelly, did you get my email? if not I will try and see if I can do a gedcom file, I will email you now with my address
keep searching!!!
Anne (wobble)
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Hi, has anyone that was originally on this conversation found any further info? I have found that Eliza's father William was awarded a medal for the battle at Corunna which confirms he was where we thought he was when Eliza was concieved or born but no further as to who her mother was!
regards to all
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not been on the site for some tome due to work committments but wonder if anyone has any further info regarding Eliza Kelly and her birthplace in Spain? or better still can anyone help as to how I find a birth in Spain?
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Hi anyone ! :)
Isley Blou, Spain
I also have Eliza Isley Kelly on my family tree.
If there is anyone out there interested I have recently had a suggestion as to where Isley Blou might be.
Stu
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Hi Stu
I have eliza in my family tree also, she would have been my gt gt gt grandmother, what is your relationship? always interested to know more, particularly about Isley Blou
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Hi Annabelle,
My link with Eliza Isley Kelly is actually through marriage, but I am still interested as to where Isley Blou is!
Eliza's daughter (Martha Robinson born 1850 in Stockton on Tees) married George Groskop in 1866. Their eldest son, Henry Groskop, married Annie May in 1891. Before Annie married Henry she had an illegitimate daughter Rica Aileen in 1885. Rica Aileen Stockdale May is my Great Grandmather, she died in 1922.
Just recently I had a suggestion as to where Isley Blou might be.
"Isley Blou could be Isla de Leon - the island of Leon, just down the caost from Cadiz. Looking at the 1851 census page, the enumerator's "n" sometimes lookes like a "u" and the B could actually be a D. The British Army was out there fighting the Peninsular War with the Spanish & Portugese against the French from about 1810-1814 ish. If you anglicise the Spanish place name, you quite possibly come up with the phonetic place where she might have been born, (Isley=Isla. Dlon=De Leon . . . . Isla de Leon". What do you think?
Regards
Stu
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I think you and I have already had this conversation, you emailed me privately!
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Oh . . . . sorry, I don't remember contacting an Annabelle !
Stu
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alias anne!
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Oh . . . . Anne H****** (I won't put your real name!). I thought I hadn't been in touch with an Annabelle.
Hope the wife isn't looking, she will wonder who all these females are.
I'll get to bottom of this Isley Blou thing if it kills me!
Stu
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Hello
I am getting a ittle confused here I have just found some mail from Wobble about an e-mail I was suppost to have received but haven;t got and I gather Allan you are a new person interested in ROBINSONS.
Help it was hard enough sorting the names out when I had 2 Robinsons marrying and all their offspring - there are offspring coming out of the woodwork now.
I noticed that Henry was a boilersmith - the other strange thing about all this is Michael - my otehr half his mother's grandfather was a Hay who married one of the Robinsons. Marmaduke Hay lived in the same street as Henry Robinson at one point and guess what - - - Duke Hay had a boilersmith business. I wonder if he worked for him. They would have been related Henry would hve been Marmadukes uncle by arriage - I think.
Hazel
Is anyone still in touch with Hazel? She's not been online since 2006.
I've got Duke Hay in my tree.
Jay
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just to say thankyou to those who have helped with this mystery for me and thankyou for posting my previous thread.
All appreciated but still cannot unravel it!
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Hi, I am also researching Eliza Isly Kelly and Robert Robinson they were my great great great grandparents, their son Henry was my great great grandfather, I am also stuck on the Kelly family.
Tes
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Hi Tes
welcome to the great mystery of Eliza Robinson nee Kelly!!! one day perhaps we will crack this one, I delve into it every so often but keep hitting brick walls. I too am her great great great grandaughter through her daughter.
happy searching