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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: Caomhanach on Wednesday 22 February 06 12:00 GMT (UK)
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My Grandfather, John George THOMAS, was once treated at a Military Hospital in Rock Ferry, Birkenhead. Apparently, it was an old school in IONIC STREET.
Does anybody know of any records? I am basically trying to find out about his war service and firstly, need his regiment etc.
Any help appreciated. ;)
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Hi
Have you tried contacting the Archives in the town hall in Birkenhead.They are the best place to inquire about records for the old school. If it's Armed forces you are after.Try the armed forces topic.in the common room. If you already have information,type it in brackets on the subject line.
hope this helps.
Celia
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Hi Caomhanach -
You may have found some more information by now but in case you haven't I've discovered that Ionic Street school in Rock Ferry was used as a military hospital for the Birkenhead Bantams who were part of the Cheshire Regiment .
I checked at the Wirral Archives at Birkenhead Town Hall when I was there but they hold no records for that military hospital.
Maybe the Cheshire Regiment could help,
You might like to have a look at these links -
http://www.1914-1918.net/whatbantam.htm
http://www.cheshire-regiment.com/recruitment/recuitment.htm
Regards
Neptune
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Neptune,
Many thanks for your efforts. I had made no progress since my original post.
The info. on the Bantams really helps as it is the first time I have been close to finding out his regiment.
Thanks again. Any further help from ANYBODY always welcome. ;)
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Hi again Caomhanach
A couple of weeks ago I went on a guided tour of Flaybrick Memorial Gardens (Cemetary) and the guide mentioned a WW1 soldier buried there who had been a member of the Birkenhead Bantams (Cheshire Regiment) and had been in Ionic Street School.
So when I went to the Town Hall yesterday I asked at the Wirral Archives. The lady there was very helpful and said they did not hold the records for the Military Hospital there but she looked in a book about Rock Ferry where she found an article on Ionic Street school. She gave me a photocopy of the pages which was just a bit of history and pictures of the school. It mentions "On December 3rd 1914 instructions were received at 11.57 am to close the school at once as it required to house the second battalion of the Bantams".
What I don't know is, whether there were any other soldiers housed there as well as the Bantams.
If John George Thomas died during the war his details may be on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site.
Here's another site I think would be very useful to you, you could put a request there, the people are very helpful (as well as Roots Chatters!).
Here's the link - http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/
Hope this helps. Don't give up!
Regards
Neptune
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Neptune.
Thanks again for your interest.
I contacted The Bantams website and the repy told me that the "military hospital" closed to make way for The Bantams (as you have just discovered).
I was also told that there was no particular connection between those treated there and The Bantams. Therefore, John George THOMAS could have been in another regiment.
I have just had a quick look at the other website you recommended . It looks promising. hving said that ... it's been a long time and I just can't find his regiment.
P.S. He survived the war.
Thatnks again. ;)
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I am sure this post is dead as it is now 2012 but I was checking out this Ionic Street Auxiliary Hospital because my grandfather was evacuated there in early 1918 from the Somme. He was actually in the Cambridgeshires but put into the Labour Corps. I have a good original photo of the hospital.
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@Neptune
Hi there I have been reading you live near the Flaybrick Cem in Birkenhead have I got this right?
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Hi Sing
Welcome to Rootschat
Flaybrick cemetery isn't too far from me - also known as Flaybrick Memorial Gardens.
The burial records are held at Birkenhead Central Library and Wirral Archives.
The records are held on microfilm according to religion so it helps to know the religion.
Do you have ancestors buried in Flaybrick?
Regards
Neptune
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Hi Yes, my Great Great Grandfather and GG Grandmother are buried there.
John James Pemberton and Catherine (Kate) Pemberton nèe Cain.
With them are also buried a couple of infants from the Wah and and two Sing Babies.
I have the grave location. How would I go about getting pictures of the headstones?
I am from Milton Keynes, and funnily enough saw someone else from this area Barnes95 had relatives buried there.
My Great Grandafather married their Daughter Bridget Sing née Pemberton. They are buried in ford cemetery Liverpool. And I have visited their graves.
My family were acquaintances of Lok Ah Tam and he is In Flaybrick too isn't he.
I'd love to get pics of their headstone if it exists to post to my family members.
The Gravestones are in section 3 159.
Is there anyway you could help me at all please?
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Hi again
I will try to get there next weekend for you to see if there's a headstone - it's good that you have the grave reference already.
Do you know what the religion would be ?
Unfortunately Flaybrick has been subject to vandalism and sadly quite a few of the headstones have been broken or pushed over which is sad to see.
I've heard the story of Lok Ah Tam - if you haven't already seen this - the link has some background. (click on Guestbook).
http://www.gavinrymill.com/flaybrick/
If I find a headstone I'll take some photos.
Regards
Neptune
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I would hazard a guess at Roman Catholic.
How wonderful for you to offer to do this. It would mean so much to us all to see.
Yes, I read there had been vandalism it begs belief doesn't it.
Thank you so much in advance.
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Hi
No problem - you're welcome -fingers crossed there will be a headstone.
Regards
Neptune
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Neptune,
Very excited indeed!
Many thanks Sing
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If any of you chaps are till there, and after details, I would love some help finding out what was the general intake (accident/aircraft crashes) of patients to "Rock Ferry Hospital" when my late (RIP) father was admitted in April 1943 whilst ob duty with the RAF.
Thanks a lot
TG
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Not sure if Ionic street was used as a hospital in the second war. Was he possibly treated at St Catherines hospital Birkenhead or maybe Clatterbridge. I know the Americans took over Clatterbridge at one time but maybe they treated any nationality?
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Hi, Clatterbridge Hospital had 2 rows of wards and departments on the site. One row was wooden built and housed British personnel. The other row was brick built and housed American personnel. There was an operating theatre, which I believe was shared by both nations. I very much doubt that any medical records for your father will still be kept. There will also be a 100 year rule on any other records for other identifiable patients. I would suggest you approach the local RAF associations for help.
Regards Kathb
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Hello Kathb and Certacito,
Many thanks for your precious time trying to help me.
The added information is very helpful. My Dad's RAF Records clearly show it's "Rock Ferry Hospital" - I know mistakes are made even on official documents. They even have my Date of Birth incorrectly noted in his F543!!
I'm astounded that perhaps his medical record will be "secret" for 100 years.
I shall certainly take up your advice Kathb and contact the RAFA (I'm a Life Member).
Kind wishes to you both
TG
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Hi, If there were any surviving records for your father, then on production of proof of relationship you would probably be able to see them. However, I didn't make it clear enough in my last post, but access to other none relatives would not be possible with the 100 year rule. I would very much doubt that any medical records from WW2 survive. Most are destroyed, at the most 25 years after the last contact or when someone is known to be dead. There is a possibility some notes from his stay in Rock Ferry survive in his NHS Records. You don't say when your father died. But you could ask his G.P. Practice if they still have them or if they have gone to store, if so where? I am sending you a private message of a Wirral Website which may be able to help. As the records clearly show Rock Ferry, it is more likely to be St. Catherines Hospital rather than Clatterbridge. Although St. Catherines is in Tranmere. However we can't rule out that there was a facility in Rock Ferry. Have a look at my private message and I hope that this will help.
Regards
Kathb
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Hello Kathb,
I can certainly prove my relationship ref my Dad, but as you say the odds of having his records available from April 1943 is a very long shot.
I had not even thought of his NHS records! I did not know his RAF Records would be 'married' to his NHS ones. He died on the 2nd July 1992.
The possibility that "Rock Ferry Hospital" is in fact St Catherines Hospital is another avenue to go down.
I shall go and see your PM to me - thanks.
TG
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Hi, Tartan Giant, I worked in the NHS for 45 years. It is amazing what has survived in NHS GP records if they still exist!! You would often find that the RAF or Army doctor would copy the persons GP into letters re: intervention/outcome. However I don't want to give you any false hope, it is not likely that given your father died in 1992 that the records survive.
I can only suggest that you try the local website that I have sent you a Private Message to. I wish you well in your search.
Regards
Kathb
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Hi, Tartan Giant. try this site, it has photo's, comments etc of West Kirby Hospital and is run by the RAFA West Kirby. http://www.rafwka.co.uk/id33.htm
You can probably contact the association via this site.
Regards
Kathb
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Hi Kathb,
You are a star - my humble thanks.
I shall get across to that website.
Kindest wishes,
TG
PS: I've just posted my first message on the WIRRAL website.
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Hi, Tartan Giant. Glad to be of help. I have just spent 20 minutes just looking at the site, it is loaded with information and you are able to send messages. At least this might answer your queries re: West Kirby Hospital. I hope that the Wikiwirral site can now solve the Rock Ferry Hospital question. Let us all know on here how you get on please.
Regards
Kathb
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Hi, Tartan Giant, I also suggest that you phone Wirral Archives and see if they have anything on the two hospitals, their contact number is 0151 606 2929.
Regards
Kathb
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Hi, Tartan Giant, just another thought. Do you know the date your father was discharged from West Kirby Hospital? It might give some clue as to his illness.
Regards
Kathb
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Hello Kathb,
You really are too kind giving me all this help.
I am just off the phone to the Wirral Archives - unfortunately they know nothing of a hospital called "Rock Ferry". They know there is an area called Rock Ferry and they mentioned schools used to be taken over as make-shift hospitals back in WW1 and WW2. On talking to her colleague they made mention of "Clatterbridge" as a general hospital. So back then it may have been know as Clatterbridge, but Dad's Record of Service makes definitive note it was "Rock Ferry Hospital".
On your other kind thought about date of discharge from West Kirby, his records make no mention of that at all, only that he was admitted there on the 17 May 1945.
By inspection of his Flying Log Book I see he resumed flying out of RAF Hooton Park (11 Radio School) on the 7 July 1943. So roughly 2.5 months off flying duties. That's a long time egh?
Needless to say, he never mentioned anything to me about being admitted to any hospital days before I was born in Glasgow, nor anytime after that either.
Quite a blank in my knowledge of my Dad's efforts for his country.
Kindest wishes,
TG
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Hi, Tartan Giant. I am happy to help. My family history is all in that surrounding area and I trained as a nurse and worked at Clatterbridge Hospital in the mid 60's to mid 70's. Clatterbridge Hospital is some 4.3 miles from Rock Ferry and its postal address was always Bebington. I note you had a reply on Wikiwirral, I would suggest you ask the person who replied stating that Ionic Street School was used in WW2 as a hospital were they got this information from? Replies here on Rootschat, state the school was used in WW1. The person replying may have some more useful information. Your dad could have had any sort of medical problem. Remember in those days that a 'burst appendix' would have needed quite some time in recovery. If he had peritonitis with it and in the early days of antibiotics it would have taken some months to be fit for flight duties. I cannot imagine however that a converted school would have an operating theatre. If he needed surgery then it may have been performed at St. Catherine's, Tranmere, Birkenhead General Hospital, or Clatterbridge. I also wonder if he was admitted to the isolation unit at West Kirby after detection of an infectious disease when at Rock Ferry. Did he have any service overseas? He could have had T.B. which was common in those days. It might be that he was suffering 'battle fatigue', not uncommon given the duress under which air crew were placed, entirely understandable. People of that generation did not mention health problems as they saw the war as the main factor. It would be interesting to know were the person replying to the Rock Ferry Hospital got their information.
Regards
Kathb
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Hi, Tartan Giant, here is another link which has a 'contact us' section on the left of the page. Its worth a try.
http://www.birkenheadhistorysociety.org.uk/page5/page6/page6.html
Regards
Kathb
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I was asking around work about this today and was informed that there was a hospital at Port Sunlight during the war. Also there was an isolation hospital at New Ferry, more or less on the border of Rock Ferry. Only hearsay I am afraid but something to think about. My money is still on St Caths in Tranmere.
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Hello Certacito,
Many thanks for taking an interest and going on and trying to help me - I'm much obliged to you.
I will dig more about the Port Sunlight idea. It's interesting that "New Ferry" had an isolation unit, which is on the border of Rock Ferry.
Time has erased so much, perhaps it will take as much time again to gather the facts.
Kindest wishes,
TG
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Please, how to find rock ferry interactive with people?