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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Clare Fowler on Monday 20 February 06 10:17 GMT (UK)
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Hi there,
Does anyone have any information about the 'Old Man's Asylum' in Blackfriars District of Glasgow? I have a death certificate with this given as place of death in 1898 (assuming usual place of residence as no other address given), but have no more information about it. I have tried googling it, but get no useful information.
The rest of the man's family lived at 82 George Street at this time. I am trying to work out why he wasn't with them. And also why his death certificate shows him as single when his wife was alive and well... I am hoping that working out more about his place of death will help me start to unravel the mystery.
Cheers,
Clare
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I must admit that its one I hadn't heard of before although if you Google on the phrase "Old Mans Asylum" there are several posts from people whose relaives died there sometime between 1881 and 1902. There is also the inscription from the tomb of the Proprietor of the Owner of the "Blackfriars Old Mans Asylum" a Mr Patrick who is buried in the Southern Necropolis. This would appear to indicate that it was a private institution and perhaps the only way his family could get him in was to declare him single.
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Thanks Falkyrn,
That was about all I had managed to find as well. I wonder if the Mitchell would have any references to it, or if it is unlikely as it looks like a private institution ???
I hadn't thought about the aspect that the family had actually tried to get him in there. I always assumed that his wife had kicked him out!! I had another look at the death cert and his death was notified by a niece from England. I wonder if this means he was indeed disowned ???
Cheers,
Clare
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The "Old Mans and Old Womans Homes" was at 81 Rottenrow in 1927 the Superintendant. of the place was Mr John White.
This was the official name rather than Asylum and may offer more information
I have also found several references to "Old Man's Friends Society" which was a charitable institution set up to aid the natives of the city who having been previously of good character had fallen upon hard times.
I wonder if this is the same place ... if it is the records would appear to be with Glasgow University.
NRA 20329
Incorporated Glasgow Old Man's Friend Society and Old Women's Home
Survey NRA(S)1415
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The 1913/14 valuation rolls confirm 81-83 Rottenrow , Glasgow as the premises of the "Old Mans and Old Womens Homes" and list the premises as an Asylum.
The tenants are described as the trustees of the Old Mans Friends Society.
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Many thanks again Falkyrn,
I was at a course in the Glasgow Uni Archives a couple of weeks ago, so I might have to pay them a visit to look for this also. I had planned to look at the Wylie and Lochhead records anyway to see if I could find out more info about the burial.
Hopefully this will help put the pieces of this puzle together.
Cheers,
Clare
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Can I just put in a comment here.?
The word 'Asylum' tends to have very negative connotations. A better view of the place might be to compare it to a Model Lodging house. Spartan, lacking in amenities but a safe refuge for the old and/or enfeebled but not the equivalent of a Lunatic Asylum. At least the Mental asylum tried to offer some surcease from their affliction.
Russell
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Hi Russell,
I agree - the term asylum tends to be viewed differently today than it probably was then, and so I am inclined to think that he was there due to being poor, or just old. However, I still can't work out why my ancestor was there when his wife and kids were only living a few streets away ??? Why weren't they looking after him...
Cheers,
Clare
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It is still possible that your original hypothesis is correct ... due to a family fight he was thrown out and the only means of obtaining shelter other than putting himself in the poorhouse was a charitable institution such as the "Old Mans Friends" and their Hostel/Asylum.
Given the reputation that the poorhouse/workhouse had I believe that many people would have tried any alternative to provide for themselves rather than submit to what was alleged to be the lowest of the low.
I remember speaking to an old lady who was to go into hospital and she was desperate that she not be taken to the hospital annexe building as in her childhood it had been the local workhouse and in her words (the only way out of there was feet first" (ie in your coffin)
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Cheers Robert,
I am trying not to be swayed by a preconception of my ancestor's family however, I did not post all of the facts.
The ancestor in question is my GGGGrandfather. I only have sketchy information about him, but he lived with my GGGGrandmother for at least 14 years before marrying her, having various children along the way. She already had 3 children by a previous husband, and a further child with no father given. I have recently discovered that she was a bigamist (possibly unwittingly), as the first husband was alive and well with a second family at the same time. This coupled with the fact that it seemed to be an, as yet, unknown relative that certified the death, I feel that it is a very strong possibility that he was thrown out.
I am left trying to work out if he was nothing but trouble, so she got rid of him or if she just threw him out for 'no reason'. It is times like these you really wish you could ask people. Or that you could find some 'written' evidence of what went on :)
Cheers,
Clare
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I am trying not to be swayed by a preconception of my ancestor's family however, I did not post all of the facts.
Yes its all to easy to go blazing down the wrong path ..... there are various theories that spring to mind but as you say without that vital piece of evidence they remain purely conjecture.
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Time to hit the GU Archives, methinks...
Thanks again for all the help.
Clare
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Hi there,
Just wondering....have you tried the poorhouse records (held at the Mitchell) for this man? If he was in need of assistance and accomodation he may have applied there and been rejected, since he ended up in the Old Man's 'asylum'.
It's a long shot I know, but if he DID apply, you might find out some additional information. I have found out some amazing details from some poorhouse records.
7 of 9 (Ninatoo)
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Hi there,
That's not a bad idea... I have to go to the Mitchell for some other research anyway, so I will give it a try when I am there.
Cheers,
Clare
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Hi,
My gg grandfather also died in the Old Man's Asylum which was an old people's home, ie they wern't expected to be able to work. When I went looking for it a few years ago, it had been knocked down and the land had become part of the Strathclyde Uni Campus. I was told that Strathclyde might have records rather than Glasgow.
As far as I can tell, my relative was there after he was 70, ie, 'retired'. Certainly, he was a widower, but he had grown up famly in the area. He had worked all his life but had to apply for poor relief on 2 occasions, but these were a few years before going into the home. I think he worked at Templetons and I wondered if there was some connection between working there; was this an alms house for the retired workers of the trustees or was it open to anyone?
I was also told that the home had moved to Great Western Road and had been taken over by the Church of Scotland at some point.
I found a couple of references at the Mitchell which I think were minutes of annual metings which did not provide any personal info on the residents. More info may have turned up there over the last few years.
I would be interested to know if you have found any more info since your last post.
:)
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Hi Clare
Im Intrested to know more about who you were refering to
I have a death certificate from 1896 Place of death Old Mans
Asylum Blackfriars And The Usual Address For The Family
Was 82 George Street He Died From Epileptiform Seizure
? Strange Very Similar The Family Name Was Prosser.
It's Possible 82 george Street Was A Working Class Block
Stewart
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Hopefully Clare will be able to reply with more details regarding the family names but with regard to
It's Possible 82 george Street Was A Working Class Block
This was a tenement block or close (block of apartments) which could house a number of families each to their own home with normally a single common entrance (closemouth) to the street.
In many areas the majority of flats were single rooms with a small kitchen attached or had an additional bedroom. In some areas of Glasgow similar blocks had much fewer apartments each of which had their family accomodation and additional room for the servants.
In the poorer areas overcrowding was rife and Glasgow at one time tried a tag or ticketing system limiting the number of adults allowed in the flat (apartment) with heavy penalties if the Inspectors found more. The residents often found ways around these restrictions.- a block near this I checked out had over 80 adults listed in the 1881 census .
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Thank You
Pretty much the same as Lanark around the same time.
Stu
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Clare, overcrowding was a great problem in Glasgow at that time so possibly he moved out. George Street was adjacent so he wasn't far away. Model, as in lodging house, rhymes with "yodel". Skoosh.
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Hi there,
Thanks to everyone for the ongoing help on this. Up until last summer, I lived very close to the actual location of both the Old Man's Asylum and George Street (as Skoosh says, they are very close) - most of my family haven't really moved that much for the past 150 years :) - so I am familiar with the housing of that time: even in the 1950s, my family were living in single-ends or 'room and kitchen' accommodation. Having said that, I don't think he'd have simply moved out.
As I mentioned previously, I deliberately held back info on my family so as not to prejudice anyone (least of all myself) but suffice to say, I think it more likely he was thrown out. When he died, he was listed as single (although still married) and his death was certified by an English niece (despite the fact that his family were only a couple of streets away).
In reply to Stewart - the family name was Chambers. My GGG Grandfather was Daniel and he lived at George Street (certainly up to the 1891 census) with his wife Agnes and their children. 82 George Street would have been quite densely populated. If you look at this image of the 1913-14 valuation roll for the property, you can see how many tenants (both domestic and commercial) at that time - http://www.theglasgowstory.com/imageview.php?inum=TGSV09039
Cheers,
Clare
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Sad end Clare, these tenement flats were privately rented, the Corporation, to prevent overcrowding and all the problems which stem from it, ticketed each house, a disc with the maximum number of occupants was affixed to the door jamb. Skoosh.
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My GGrandfather died in the Old Mans Asylum in the 1890s, the detailed street plan showing the location (Asylum for Indigent Old Men & Old Women's Home) is in the NLS.
http://maps.nls.uk/townplans/view/?sid=74416901&mid=glasgow_2_centre
The Asylum is on the lower half of the right hand side of the plan. Hope this is of interest