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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: B.E. on Friday 17 February 06 19:39 GMT (UK)
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My mother-in-law was born Gladys Snook and I'm trying to find some background on the Snook side of her family as she approaches her 80th birthday. Unfortunately, they're not world-famous at all - in fact they're a ruddy evasive bunch when it comes to censuses, etc!!
Her father was Walter Martell Snook (b.1887). He was a widower when he married Gladys Maude Green at South Stoneham 3/10/1925, but we haven't a clue who his first wife was. So, Q1: Does anyone know?
Walter Martell's father was, we think, Walter Charles Snook (b.1861) who lived with his old man (Henry Snook b.1824) in Bath Rd, Lymington at the time of the 1881 census. Q2: Can anyone help me verify that WC was indeed WM's father or know anything more about WC, such as the dates of his marriages (2, we think) and the names of his wives?
WM's marriage was witnessed by William Henry George Snook, of whom we know nothing. I can see his birth in 1890 and entry in the 1891 census, but I don't know his exact relationship with WM. My suspicion is that WM and WHG were staying with the Broomfields in Boldre on census night 1901, implyng that WHG went by the name Henry and was probably WM's younger brother. Q3: Can anyone suggest how I might verify this - or tell me what happened to WHG after 1925?
Q4: Anyone got anything more on this family?
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Hi B.E.
Not sure what you've got from the census records already, but thought I'd try and tie them in with the marriage records....
Snook, Walter Charles
Perkins, Annie
Q December 1884
Lymington
Hampshire
Vol 2b
Pg 1130
1891
23 Slabro? Street, Lymington
Walter Chas Snook, Head, 30, Yacht Steward, Hampshire Lymington
Annie Snook, Wife, 26, London Blackfriars
Annie Maud Snook, Daughter, 5, Hampshire Lymington
Walter Martell Snook, Son, 3, Hampshire Lymington
Wllm Hy Geo Snook, Son, 1, Hampshire Lymington
RG12/898 Folio 54 Pg 11
Snook, Annie
Deaths
Age 34
Q March 1899
Lymington
Hampshire
Vol 2b
Page 437
Snook, Walter Charles
Marriage to one of
Hillier, Mary Ann
Isaac, Bonnie Eliza
Woodcock, Fannie Amelia
Q December 1907
Southampton
Hampshire
Vol 2c
Page 68
Regards, Emma ;)
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In 1901, Walter Charles Snook was a 40 year old Widow staying in a hotel on Terminus? Terrace, Southampton. He was living on own means.
(RG13/1057 Pg 21)
1901
Dunsford, Boldre, Hampshire
James Broomfield, Head, 46, Gardener not Domestic, Hants Sway
Elizabeth Broomfield, Wife, 43, Hants Beaulieu
Walter Broomfield, Son, 20, Carpenter (House Builder), Boldre
Walter Snook, Cousin, 13, Lymington
Henry Snook, Cousin, 11, Lymington
RG13/1035 Pg 9
Regards, Emma ;)
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1871
Bath Road, Lymington
Henry Snook, Head, W, 48, Ship Smith, Beaulieu
Elizabeth Snook, Daughter, 23?, Housekeeper, Beaulieu
Henry Geo Snook, Son, 19, Boatbuilder, Southampton
William Geo Snook, Son, 17, Mariner, Lymington
Edward Thos Snook, Son, 15, Mariner, Lymington
Ann A Snook, Daughter, 14, Servant, Lymington
Alfred Snook, Son, 12, Scholar, Lymington
Walter Chas Snook, Son, 10, Scholar, Lymington
Emily M Snook, Daughter, 7, Scholar, Lymington
Charlotte E Snook, Daughter, 11mths, Lymington
RG10/1173 Pg 20
Regards, Emma ;)
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1861
Bath Road, Lymington
Henry Snook, Head, 37, Ship Smith, Beaulieu
Charlotte, Snook, Wife, 33, Southampton
Elizabeth A Snook, Daughter, 12, Scholar, Lymington
Henry G Snook, Son, 9, Scholar, Lymington
William G Snook, Son, 7, Scholar, Lymington
Edward T Snook, Son, 5, Scholar, Lymington
Ann A Snook, Daughter, 4, Scholar, Lymington
Alfred Snook, Son, 2, Lymington
Walter C Snook, Son, 3mths, Lymington
RG09/663 PG 19
Regards, Emma ;)
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1851
Bridge Street, Lymington
Henry Snook, Head, 25, Blacksmith Journeyman, Beaulieu
Charlotte Snook, Wife, 22, Dressmaker, Southampton
Elizabeth Snook, Daughter, 2, Southampton
Charlotte Snook, Daughter, 1, Lymington
HO107/1666 Pg 17
Snook, Charlotte
Deaths
QDecember 1851
Lymington
Hampshire
Vol 8
Page 130
Snook, Charlotte
Deaths
Q March 1865
Lymington
Hampshire
Vol 2b
Page 437
Snook, Henry
Martill, Charlotte
Marriages
Q March 1848
Southampton
Hampshire
Vol 7
Pg 273
Regards, Emma ;)
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1891
12 Naseby Road, Millbrook, Hampshire
Edward Snook, Head, 35, Ship's Steward, Lymington
Jane Snook, Wife, 42, Kent Lewisham
Anne Snook, Daughter, 7, Scholar, Southampton
James Golding, Wife's Son, 16, Lawyer's Clerk, Southampton
Henry Snook, Father, 68, W, Ship Smith (Retired), Beaulieu
RG12/928 Pg 20
Regards, Emma ;)
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Snook, Henry
Deaths
Age 69
Q March 1893
South Stoneham
Hampshire
Vol 2c
Pg 65
Regards, Emma ;)
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If you want any of the siblings tracing through the census records, just let me know!
Regards, Emma ;)
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Hi B.E.,
Emma has done a lot of work there for you.
One extra thing, Elizabeth Broomfield was Elizabeth Jane Snook before her marriage in 1879 (Mar qtr Lymington 2b 769). Obviously a relation, but not sure whose sister she is!
Henry's wife Charlotte must have died sometime in 1870 or early 1871 unless he was married twice.
Can you confirm Walter's father's name and occupation from the marriage certificate?
Nell
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Emma and Nell,
Thanks very much for your replies - you've managed to confirm much of what I'd guessed and given me a whole lot more besides.
What I love about this is the speculation (well, mine, anyway!). So what really is the story of the Charlotte Snook who was born in 1870, 5 years after Henry's wife (Charlotte) died? If Henry really did remarry, I'd have thought it asking for trouble to name the new daughter after his first wife! Or was his second wife called Charlotte too? Or was the little girl not really a daughter but a dodgy granddaughter? Either way, there's no mention of a Mrs Henry Snook in the 1881 Census... Nor, for that matter, can I find Elizabeth Snook (b.1848) or Charlotte Snook (b.1870). Any thoughts?
The other interesting feature of the Henry Snook household in 1881 is the presence of William Thomas (son-in-law). I wonder to whom he was married, since none of the daughters have the same surname? To Elizabeth, maybe, who just happened to have popped down to the pub when the census man came round? Or who had died and he, for some reason, was continuing to live with his father-in-law? Can you see any marriages between Thomas and Snook in Lymington between 1871 and 1881?
There's a bit of mystery about that seafaring rogue Walter Charles Snook too. We knew he'd married twice, but conventional wisdom in the family is that the mother of Walter Martell was called Bessie Evans. Can you find any trace of an Elizabeth Evans sneaking into the family at any time?
And we'd really, really, like to discover more about Walter Martell's first wife (this is the official family skeleton in the cupboard, since he purportedly married Gladys Maude Green in 1925 without telling her he's been married previously - she found out when she saw "widower" on the certificate!) My mother-in-law has deep-seated suspicions about a lady called Ruth Hawkins. Any evidence you can find?
Finally, can you tell what happened to William Henry George Snook? He was clearly still alive in 1925, but my mother-in-law (b.1926) has no recollection of him whatsoever.
Cheers,
Brian
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Hi Brian,
Snook, Elizabeth
Thomas, William
Marriages
Q Sept 1874
Lymington
Hampshire
Vol2b
Pg 971
Regards, Emma ;)
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Also found this possible for Daughter/Granddaughter Charlotte E Snook
Snook, Charlotte E
Death
Age 30
Q June 1902
South Stoneham
Hampshire
Vol 2c
Page 45
Will have a look on the 1891...
Regards, Emma ;)
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Hi Brian,
Looks at all the information carefully.
There is a Charlotte Snook daughter of Henry and Charlotte born in 1850 or so (see 1851 census info). However, she is not present in 1861.
There is a Charlotte Snook daughter of Henry & Charlotte Snook born 1870 or so (see 1871 census info). However she is not present in 1881. ( I note she was Charlotte Elizabeth. A Charlotte E Snook died in South Stoneham RD in 1902 aged 30. - ah, I see Emma has found that too.)
Charlotte Snook, wife of Henry, mother perhaps of both Charlottes?, must have died 1870 - 1871. (Alive when daughter born, dead by March/April 1871 when census taken).
The death index records of Charlotte Snook in 1851 and 1865 do not give an age. The one in 1851 could be the daughter born in 1850. It is not necessarily the mother. Also there are an awful lot of Snooks about in Hampshire! You cannot be sure unless you get the certificate
You are also quite correct - "daughter" Charlotte in 1871 could really be granddaughter. But that would be difficult if the enumerator knew the family.
There comes a point - and you are very close to it - when you have to obtain verification. Otherwise, you may find yourself creating a few myths and skeletons yourself! ;)
Nell
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Have found this...just to add to the confusion! ::)
1891
1 Townell? Street, Widnes
Thos Wilkinson, Head, 24, ?? Labourer, Widnes
Martha Wilkinson, Wife, 23, Willaston Cheshire
Louis Thomas, Boarder, 25, M, France
Charlotte Thomas, Boarder, 20, M, Lymington Hants
RG12/3011 Pg52
Thomas, Louis
Snook, Charlotte
Marriage
Q Sept 1890
Llanelly
Carmarthenshire Glamorgan
Vol 11a
Page 13
Which conflicts with Charlotte Snook dying in 1902...unless she changed her name back again? Or there's more than one.... :-\
Regards, Emma ;)
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Emma & Nell,
Thanks again for your searching on my behalf - it's cracking stuff! I take Nell's advice on board about the verification, but half the fun of this is the invention of the skeletons. We've debunked several family illusions already, but made sure we've replaced them with other mini-scandals!!
I'm liking the look of Elizabeth's 1874 marriage to William Thomas, but it would be nice to know where she was in 1881. No death to report?
Given that the recorded deaths of the two Charlottes in 1851 (baby) and 1865 (mother) are indeed our people, then I'm not sure where Nell's still coming from with her idea that Charlotte Snr was the mother of the third Charlotte (b.1870). Am I missing something?
Emma's tale of Louis and Charlotte in Widnes is fascinating, however difficult it is to authenticate. Charlotte Thomas (nee Snook) ties in neatly with the third Charlotte in the Bath Rd household, but was she really marrying a Thomas in Llanelli (albeit Louis was born in France), when she used to live in Lymington with a William Thomas (born in Pembury, Llanelli)? If she was indeed William & Elizabeth Thomas' daughter, did she end up marrying her half-brother or uncle or cousin? The woman who died in South Stoneham in 1902 may, I guess, have reverted to her maiden name after hubby's death/divorce/disappearance, but you're right: there were a dickens of a lot of Snooks around in those days!
Any clues to Henry Snook's parentage from the 1841 census?
Cheers,
Brian
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:) Didn't we "do" this family in one of the monthly challenges.
I've been searching for it on site ??? perhaps not. But the names are so familiar.
:D
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Found it. July one with the BALCH family.
Snook family was elusive then, if I remember rightly. ;D
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There seem to have been more Snooks in Lymington than there are currently Patels in the whole of India (and when they had their kids they were only ever given half-a-dozen names to choose from)!!
I'm now off to study the Balches.
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Doesn't look like the same bunch of Snooks to me. Thanks for the idea. My mother-in-law tells me that Snook (also Snooke and Snooks) is a derivative of "Sevenoaks", therefore they're probably scattered far and wide.
Anyone know if Bridge Street, Bath Road and Slabro(?) Street in Lymington still exist? Or where they once were?
(I'm in Basingstoke - too darn wet and far to hop in the car and find out for myself!)
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I was simply trying to say that until you verify the facts, you cannot be 100% certain of anything! Yes Charlotte senior seems to have died in 1865, but what if Henry married again after that and second wife died too by 1871 - it could have happened! Let the daughters be innocent until proven guilty!
Snooks - very common in Hampshire and Wiltshire.
Location of streets in Lymington - if you really don't want to move, try either
http://www.streetmap.co.uk
or
http://www.multimap.com
Otherwise, I'm sure Basingstoke Library will have a Hampshire A-Z atlas.
Nell
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Nell,
OK, I'm duly exposed as a lazy old ***!! It's just difficult trying to do all this AND have a life (AND earn a living) at the same time...
I agree that all of us should be assumed innocent until proven guilty. Therefore, I'm happy to assume that Henry's second wife (also called Charlotte?) died in childbirth, but that Charlotte Jnr (Mark 2) survived. But, no, I don't have any evidence of the second marriage. And speculation about in-breeding and deflowering by the local squire is far more entertaining, don't you think? ;)
And I was hoping there might be some contributors from Lymington who might be able to shed more light than multimap on what these roads were like back in Victorian times.
Cheers,
Brian
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It's just difficult trying to do all this AND have a life (AND earn a living) at the same time...
::) spoken like a man...... ;D
You could also have a look at:
http://www.old-maps.co.uk
19th century OS maps. The Lymington area is a little difficult to read in places but you will get the general idea.
Nell
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Ow, that hurt!!
As it happens, I'm just about to deliver a lecture on multithreading (aka multitasking) to my class. I generally start with the (pathetic) joke that it's a topic the blokes aren't meant to be able to understand...
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I can find Bath Rd on the old map, but neither of the other two locations. Anybody know whether Bridge Rd was once called Bridge St? Or is it a census enumerator problem?
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Have you looked at Snooks Lane and Snooks Farm?
East of Lymington, near Walhampton.
It's on old maps. ;)
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Emma (or anyone else interested)...
re Your earlier findings for me, we've now managed to get hold of the birth certificate of Walter Martell Snook. It seems to show that the address in the 1991 census wasn't Slabro Street, but Station Street.
Is it possible that Charlotte Snook's maiden name (m. Henry Snook 1848) was Martell rather than Martill? We're trying to work out where Walter Martell Snook got his middle name from.
Cheers,
Brian
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Martell/Martill....same difference...! Have to allow for mis-spellings, accents and the like when it comes to old records....
For example, my line are the Edgley line, but there is a branch with an extra 'e' in the middle - Edgeley - purely because it was recorded like this on a certificate or record entry somewhere along the line!
Regards, Emma ;)
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hi i see your looking at lymington
i live here if i can be of any help
Angela
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And Bridge Street, Station Road/Street and Bath Road are all still here
I do know a 'Snook' but i'm not sure if that can help
Angela
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Angela,
My wife and I went for a traipse around Lymington last weekend to see what we could see. Ended up not learning a lot about the Snooks, but spent too much on the market stalls in the High Street!
You might be able to shed some light on the shady parts...
1. We found Bath Road down by the the estuary. Any idea how different it was in the mid-19th century? Was it lined with houses on both sides (unlike nowadays)? Were there hovels as well as villas?
2. I couldn't find Bridge St, only Bridge Rd. Do you reckon they're one and the same thoroughfare? Was a move from Bridge St/Rd to Bath Rd a sign of improvement or desperation?
3. We tried gravestone-deciphering in the churchyard, but it's all got a bit overgrown and most of the inscriptions over 100 years old have all but weathered away to nothing. Do you know anything about the availability of plot registers/maps of the churchyard?
4. A pivotal figure in the family history (Walter Charles Snook) described himself as a "yacht steward". Any idea what this might actually have meant in Lymington in the 1880s (his brothers were invariably just "mariners")?
Cheers,
Brian
PS: I'm not aware of any Snooks in Lymington today - but then my wife tells me I'm not aware of very much at all!
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i have a rubbish day at work today i will see what i can find for you.
The snook i know ethier lives in Pennington or Milford will find him and find out
Angela
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Making a bit of progress on this one, but I'd appreciate some help on the 1901 census...
Walter Charles Snook was on his tod at a Southampton hotel.
Walter Martell and William Henry George Snook were with the Broomfields at Boldre.
Annie Perkins was dead (1899).
But where were Annie Maud Snook (b.1886) and Agnes Emily Perkins Snook (b.1893) on census night?
We *think* they may have been living with Priscilla Broomfield (nee Perkins?) and her husband at the Wheatsheaf pub in Lymington. So, please could any of you answer any of the following questions:
1. Can you find AM and AEP Snook in 1901?
2. Can you find Priscilla Perkins anywhere - is she the sister of Edward George Perkins?
3. What, if any, was the relationship between the Broomfields of Boldre and the Broomfields of the Wheatsheaf?
Thanks,
Brian
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There is one SNOOK and one SNOOKS living in Beaulieu Rails the parish of Boldre in 1817. If you get back just a little bit further you might find a connection to one of these families.
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Well, our story starts at the moment with Henry Snook, b.1824 in Beaulieu. He later transferred his empire to Lymington, which is where most of the action takes place. Where exactly is Beaulieu Rails (it certainly hadn't occurred to me that Beaulieu might be inside Boldre parish)? And what's the first name and DOB of the Snook you've found in 1817?
Cheers,
Brian
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Henry Snook baptised 27 Feb 1824 Beaulieu, parents William & Ann
Possible siblings (i.e. all have the same parents listed):
Elisabeth 1 Feb 1818
Sarah 24 Jan 1819
George 2 Sep 1821
William 29 Mar 1825
Moses 2 Dec 1832
Alfred 1 Jul 1838
Nell
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Beaulieu Rails was a settlement that ran along the Beaulieu Manor ditch and formed the boundary between East Boldre and Beaulieu parishes.
The family is listed as follows:
William and Ann SNOOKS
Elizabeth Jan 1817
Sarah Dec 1818
Ann (29 Oct 1798) was the daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth (nee Hurle) PICKET
siblings:
Sarah (8 Jan 1785)
Henry (21 Jun 1794)
Elizabeth (18 June 1801)
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Nell, Bearkat,
I'm liking this new information very much indeed (even if it hasn't yet answered the question I originally asked!). Any more names and dates going backwards?
I still can't find out where Beaulieu Rails is when looking at an 1871 map, even if the parish boundary hasn't moved (probably because I can't identify the Beaulieu Manor ditch either). Could you give me an approximate Grid Reference please - or a description based on today's geography?
And what about my original 1901 question? C'mon, Nell, I was relying on you!!
Cheers,
Brian
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Beaulieu Rails is west of Beaulieu River. On the west it is bordered by Beaulieu Heath. It runs north -south.
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Between today's East Boldre and East End??
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Yes
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Here is the other SNOOK family, also living in Beaulieu Rails.
Mary nee Harris formerley Fielder
with children
Zipporah FIELDER 1789,
Jane SNOOK 3 Jan 1793, Harriett Feb 1794, Frances Feb 1796, WIlliam Feb 1798, Betsey Jun 1803
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OK, thanks - found it now. I was using maximum zoom to read the writing and hadn't previously panned far enouigh south.
Given that most of the houses are by the road (!!) to the west of the boundary and your original description was "Beaulieu Rails parish of Boldre", do you think that Henry Snook's cited birthplace and christening location of "Beaulieu" suggests that he was born in Beaulieu Rails but christened in Bealieu rather than the nearest church in East Boldre?
Just seen your post re the other Snook family. Maybe Jane and William were siblings (though who decided to drop the final "s" from "Snooks" would be anybody's guess!)...
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Ann (29 Oct 1798) was the daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth (nee Hurle) PICKET
siblings:
Sarah (8 Jan 1785)
Henry (21 Jun 1794)
Elizabeth (18 June 1801)
The above Henry was convicted of poaching deer from the forest and sentenced to 6 months imprisonment. 10 April 1881 Hampshire Quarter Sessions.
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The above entry has Ann listed as Anne SNOOKE
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George SNOOKE had a house and garden at Bewley Bank. The New Forest Commissioners (1801) declared that this was encroached land from the forest. Witnesses Richard Primmer - 1/4 acre 18months ago
Henry Scanes - all taken in about 15 years and since thrown out.
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Possibly Mary's husband, deceased by 1817??
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Probably - but they didn't marry in Boldre.
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Hi Brian,
Here is the other SNOOK family, also living in Beaulieu Rails.
Mary nee Harris formerley Fielder
with children
Zipporah FIELDER 1789,
Jane SNOOK 3 Jan 1793, Harriett Feb 1794, Frances Feb 1796, WIlliam Feb 1798, Betsey Jun 1803
Posted by: bearkat
Here is some information about Beaulieu Rails. It is quite interesting.
I think that Betsey Snook, born June 1803, may be my 2xGtgrandmother
http://www.geodata.soton.ac.uk/newforest/public/resources/eastb.html
bearcat,
Would Zipporah have been the subject of the court case in 1801 because she was twelve and her mother could no longer afford to keep her?
Beth
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And what about my original 1901 question? C'mon, Nell, I was relying on you!!
Oh, you were, were you. ::)
Well, start re-thinking your theories, Brian, as I've said before, you need to check the facts before you theorise too much and end up following the wrong lead.
Annie Snook, b cir 1886, is in Sholing in 1901, a nurse/servant, at the home of William H. Bell, a solicitor. ref RG13/1063/126 p 32 10 Manor Road, Hill Brow.
Agnes (and recorded as Agnes Emma) is a boarder at the home of George W Cook, a soap agent, at Cranbury Road, Sholing. ref RG13/1063/93 p14
Edward G Perkins baptised 12 Feb 1830, Lymington, son of Mary Ann Perkins, spinster.
And search as I might, where on earth on this thread is a previous mention of the Wheatsheaf pub in Lymington except in your reply no 32 yesterday? How did you get there?
And who the heck is Priscilla Perkins - where did she pop up from? ???
Thoroughly confused.
Nell
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Nell,
Well, I flushed you out into the open at least! ;) You're right that I'm still doing a lot of speculation. The main problem I've got is that I'm trying to combine information from two living, but elderly, members of the family, whose only apparent thing in common is a firm conviction that the other is confused. There appears also to have been congenital disinformation within the family, such that parents have often been at best economical with the truth to their children as far as their own heritage is concerned. Obviously, I'm also struggling because I have no census data after 1901 and insufficient detail to get much out of the BMD index sets.
Thus, I have the following facts:
1. Widowed Walter Charles Snook (1861-1949) was at a hotel in Southampton on census night in 1901.
2. Two of his children were chez Broomfield in Boldre - it now looks as though the other two were at different addresses in Sholing (does "boarder" suggest some sort of fostering arrangement for the 8-year-old Aggie?).
As to the unsubstantiated family tittle-tattle...
Walter Charles Snook was a tenant farmer at Dunsford Farm, Boldre, "when his family were young". [If this is the case it must be between 1891 and 1901 - though I don't know how a yacht steward managed to turn his hand to farming.] At some point they moved back to Lymington, where Annie died (1899). They lived with a great aunt (?), Priscilla Broomfield, nee Perkins (?), landlady of the Wheatsheaf and husband of Alderman Broomfield, local bigwig, mason, etc. [There are plenty of old photos in the family of the Alderman, so I guess he must play a role somewhere!]
The biggest mystery is actually the identity of someone called "Uncle Len" of Warborne Farm Cottage, Boldre. One of my "convinced" sources says he must be William Henry George Snook (b. 1890, at Boldre in 1901 but apparently non-existent again until his death in 1962), while the other claims he is Leonard Tapp, who may have become part of the family through Walter Charles Snook's subsequent marriage(s) [which I can't tie down either]. They agree that he married Daisy and probably had 3 children, Robert, Edwin and Mary.
I appreciate that much of this is incredibly vague - I was simply hoping that you might be able to help me to establish some real facts and possibly open up some new directions...
Be gentle with me!
Cheers,
Brian
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So I'm chasing shadows here, am I. ::)
This Alderman Broomfield - what was his christian name and was he supposed to be alive in 1901? From what you say his wife was Priscilla nee Perkins - was she supposed to be alive in 1901, because I cannot find a Broomfield in charge of the Wheatsheaf pub. I can't find the pub either at the moment! I cannot find Priscilla Broomfield anywhere in 1891 either.
But there is a Priscilla Broomfield who died in 1866 - she was a spinster.
I'm trying the Historical directories site but it seems to be on a go slow at the moment. The online catalogue at Winchester is no help at present either - tried Broomfield, Warborne Farm, Leonard Tapp and got nowhere.
Time for lunch I think!
Nell
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Yup, lunch is definitely the best option.
I'm afraid the answer to all of your questions is "don't know", which ain't going to get us very far, is it?
I was hoping for a miracle! Just one bit of solidity somewhere I might have had something to go on, but, yes, at the moment, it's definitely shadowland...
The pity of it is, mother-in-law has loads of ancient photographs, but largely with no captions.
Thanks for your patience and perseverence.
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Are there any wills lurking in these shadows?
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No wills that I'm aware of. The Snooks themselves never seemed to have enough cash in hand to feed themselves properly, let alone splash out on a will or leave anything for anyone else.
Oh, and they also appeared to enjoy hiding or ripping up documents in a bid to suppress scandals too!
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Mrs Priscilla Broomfield is listed in both 1898 and 1911 directories at the Wheatsheaf Public House in Gosport Street, Lymington.
However, in 1901, the census records the landlord as John Bright.
Mrs Broomfield is nowhere to be seen in the vicinity of the pub.
The only prominent male Broomfield in Lymington around that time is Walter Broomfield who becomes the borough water engineer by 1911. But he is not married to Priscilla!
Too many shadows......
Nell
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Hmmm, well there's some fire in the smoke then! I'll see if any of your information triggers ageing memories. Actually, the name Walter Broomfield does ring a bell, so he may well be the man. Is there any way we can find out whether he was "Alderman" Broomfield? And do we know who Priscilla was actually married to? Was she around for the 1891 census, for example?
Thanks a lot.
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I did say before
I cannot find Priscilla Broomfield anywhere in 1891 either.
I cannot find her on any census at all spelt like that. Since I've no idea of her age or where she was born or to whom she was married, we're down to any awful mis- transcription you can think of.
The directories I looked at give the names of various town officials, magistrates and council memebts - none of them have the title Alderman and Walter is listed as the Borough Water Engineer. If he became anything "better" it was after 1911.
Nell
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Sorry, I'd forgotten about your earlier attempt to find her in 1891. Seems like a woman who avoided censuses like the plague but couldn't escape the town directories! I wonder why she appeared to be associated with the pub for 13 years in the directories, but without being the boss?
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OK, guys and gals, here's another bit of shadow-chasing for any of you out there with the patience, time and inclination...
FACT: Walter Martell Snook was staying/living with relatives on Census Night 1901 (the Broomfields of Dunsford Farm, Boldre).
FACT: Mrs Priscilla Broomfield had something to do with the Wheatsheaf pub in Lymington in 1898 and 1911, though she doesn't show up on any censuses.
QUESTION 1: Is there any link between James Broomfield of Dunsford (b. Sway 1855) and said Priscilla Broomfield? Like did she marry one of his brothers?
QUESTION 2: Is there any way of telling whether the Walter Broomfield (James's son) on the 1901 census is the guy who became the Borough Water Engineer in 1911 (carpenter to water engineer!) and/or Alderman Broomfield?
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:D Hi Brian et all,
Following your thread with great interest.
Waiting for the siting of Hannah Snook (abt 1810).
She married Tom Craze 1st Nov 1830 St Dunstan London. IGI source.
In following the Craze family, it seems as if they came from Devon/Cornwall pre1810.
Keep us in mind, if you come across them. ;)
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Hannah Snook? Cripes, I can't believe there's one we haven't come across yet!! Born in Beaulieu with the other squatters, do you know?
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Sod's Law! Within seconds of my last posting, mother-in-law phones up and announces she's found an obituary for Alderman Broomfield.
So here are the new facts:
He was Walter James William Broomfield. There's no date on the cutting, but it must be post-1952. He died aged 78, so he must have been born post-1874 (which makes him a possible later edition of the Walter Broomfield, aged 20, at Dunsford on the 1901 census). His wife was Priscilla (d.1952) who was "licensee of the Wheatsheaf Inn, Gosport Street, Lymington, for some 30 years". He sounds like a pompous old git who just loved being on committees (including the Water Management Committee), was a councillor for Lymington East ward and became Alderman in 1940.
So, my original questions still stand, but I'm now trying to work through the dates. If Nell's lady of the Wheatsheaf was already Mrs Priscilla Broomfield in 1898, then it sounds a bit unlikely that Walter was married at 17 or earlier, yet still lived with Mummy and Daddy 3 years later with no sign of the missus. Also I'm not altogether convinced by the notion of a carpenter, son of a gardener, rising to the dizzy heights of Borough Water Engineer and all-round local bigwig. So I'm starting to think there may have been two Walter Broomfields in the area. Could our bigwig be James's little brother? Cousin?
I'm also stymied my the fact that the borough water engineer in 1911 definitely wasn't married to the licensee of the Wheatsheaf. Hmmm!
H-E-L-P!!!!
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Hi,
This looks like his birth :),
BROOMFIELD Walter James W
Jun Q 1880 v.2b p.686 Lymington
Daisy
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Daisy,
Thanks for that - I agree with you. I now discover that the Walter Broomfield living at Dunsford/Sandy Down (though not at Dunsford Farm itself) in 1881 was listed as "Walter J" (no DOB, therefore I assume he was less than 1). I still don't know if they were one and the same, though I doubt it, since Boldre is Boldre and not Lymington. I can't find any other reference to your WJW Broomfield in 1881, though. Is he around in 1891 or 1901?
Cheers,
Brian
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Hello Brian,
Now I've re- read this long and interesting thread I would say he is the Walter you mention of 1881 and also the Walter in the 1901 census (from reply 2), this is because thanks, for once :) to the enumerator, the 1891 census gives lots of clear info.
1891 census RG12/899 f.57 p.10 Boldre Hampshire
Hill Cottage, Sandy Down
James BROOMFIELD Head M 38 Gardener domestic servt Sandy Down, Boldre Hants
Elizabeth Jane " " Wife M 38 Bucklers Hard, Beaulieu Hants
Walter Jas Will " " Son S 11 Sandy Down, Boldre Hants
Elsie Agnes Mary " " Niece S 7 Burley Ringwood Hants
As to it being Boldre not Lymington, Lymington would be the registration district for the parish of Boldre.
Daiy
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Daisy,
Ah, excellent work. it does indeed look as though he's our alderman. Now, just to polish it off, what chance a marriage record for Walter Broomfield and Priscilla X sometime just prior to 1898?? Or a child for Priscilla less than 9 months later!! ;)
Cheers,
Brian
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Daisy,
I've now tried tracking (with some assistance from my friends) Elizabeth Jane Snook through some earlier censuses. There's an Elizabeth C Snook listed on the Beaulieu/Buckler's Hard return in 1861 (#58), which matches the date and place of birth of 1891 (her father was Walter and her mother Jane, which may or may not be a coincidence). I don't know why she has a different middle name unless the enumerator screwed up. And in 1881, I can see her at with James and 11-month-old Walter sandwiched between Dunsford Farm and Hill Cottage, aged 24 (good!).
She's aged 43 in 1901 (close enough), but how the dickens was she 38 already in 1891? Another cock-up??
Cheers,
Brian
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33 could look like 38.
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But not 88! Good point - I've learned to mistrust transcriptions and even the truth of the originals, but I hadn't thought of that one.
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Just found a marriage between Walter J W Broomfield and Priscilla M Bright at Lymington in Dec quarter 1910. I can also see an 1881 family in Marylebone including John Bright (38) and Priscilla Bright (3). Maybe he chucked in his job as a police constable and moved to the seaside to be a publican instead? Alternatively, there's a John Jnr in the same family who would have been 24 in 1898. Father/daughter or brother/sister as joint licencees? Even though she definitely wasn't Mrs Broomfield at the time?
This would give her a distant link to the Snooks, but it doesn't look as though she was related to the Perkins.
What do you all think? Close enough for a fit?
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Brian,
Can I remind you of this:
The only prominent male Broomfield in Lymington around that time is Walter Broomfield who becomes the borough water engineer by 1911. But he is not married to Priscilla!
In 1901, Walter in Lymington is 25, born Harrow Middlesex, a plumber ( a much more likely occupation for the borough water engineer in later life) but married to Eva aged 26.
Unless Eva is Priscilla in disguise ( possible, since Priscilla refuses to show herself on any census), then you need to think again.
Also there is a Walter born Minstead c 1870, in 1901, a Horsekeeper living in Romsey, another Walter aged 24 born Minstead living in ?Copythorne, and another aged 20 b Beaulieu aged 20 living in Boldre. Just 3 of the 9 Walter Broomfields in the 1901 census living in Hampshire. Admittedly not all fit your age range but.....
Amongst others:
Walter George Broomfield m Eva Frances E Froud, Dec 1895 Lymington, 2b 1307
Walter James Broomfield m either Edith Eliza E Andrews or Annie Sophia Wiseman, Ringwood Mar 1908 2b 1114
Walter J W Broomfield m Priscilla M Bright, Dec 1910 Lymington 2b 1431
Ooooh - interesting..........
Can't find any more at present - various sites on their busy night slow down.....
Nell
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Nell,
I'm happy that the WJW Broomfield and Priscilla Bright who married in 1910 are the couple I'm after. It is therefore seems impossible that your borough water engineer is the same bloke. My man is aged 20 at Dunsford/Sandy Hill/Boldre on the 1901 census.
Despite what you say, WJW Broomfield must have been reasonably prominent in the area to have become alderman in 1940. I can't explain why he doesn't show up on any of your lists - unless he didn't become prominent until much later.
Cheers,
Brian
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Precisely - when I first started chasing your shadows, you had no dates to go on.
At some point they moved back to Lymington, where Annie died (1899). They lived with a great aunt (?), Priscilla Broomfield, nee Perkins (?), landlady of the Wheatsheaf and husband of Alderman Broomfield, local bigwig, mason, etc.
I assumed - wrongly in this case - that it was relatively close to when Annie died. Since I have not found any more recent information online, it is rather difficult.
With several Walter Broomfields in Hamsphire in 1901, the last census we have at the moment, it isn't easy to be definite which one became which prominent person!
I am tempted to say that this is a pitfall of working only on hearsay, rather than facts, but you might shout "Ouch" again. :P
Nell
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I think I also said that
The only prominent male Broomfield in Lymington around that time is Walter Broomfield who becomes the borough water engineer by 1911.
That doesn't mean that there was not another one, but it is curious that two men by the name of Walter Broomfield would appear to have risen to positions of prominence in Lymington.
QUESTION 2: Is there any way of telling whether the Walter Broomfield (James's son) on the 1901 census is the guy who became the Borough Water Engineer in 1911 (carpenter to water engineer!) and/or Alderman Broomfield?
Difficult - especially if you wish to do everything without spending any money! You need to find some children of said Walter - get a birth certificate and see what his profession is.
I agree. I can't see how Walter George who married Eva in 1895 is the same as Walter J W who married Priscilla in 1910. So Walter the plumber in 1901 who was married to Eva (FACT) and who possibly became Borough Water Engineer by 1911 is NOT your man. Plumber to Water Engineer is more likely. Twenty year old Walter in Boldre in 1901 obviously arrived in Lymington later.
All speculation........unless you choose to verify something. Up to you!!! ;)
Nell
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To all of you out there,
On reflection, I'm absolutely gobsmacked that you're still showing any interest whatsoever in my feeble, amateurish, cheapskate attempts to piece together my wife's family history. As I look back now to what I knew when I first started this thread - and some related ones - just a matter of weeks ago (ie: zilch) and what I know now, I'm even more amazed. So thanks again to those who have searched on my behalf and found all sorts of goodies. I'm still prepared to take Nell's barbs, because I know I'm on shaky, speculative ground much of the time, but one of the things I've actually learned along the way is that, while family hearsay is often confused, there's almost always some factual basis for the stories - the challenge has been to separate the wheat from the chaff.
So I'm going to continue to ask for assistance - in the knowledge that when you get fed up, you'll simply stop responding!
Let me tell you what I've learned so far about Walter Charles Snook, a man of almost complete mystery to his own granddaughter...
1861: Born in Bath Road, Lymington, to ex-squatter Henry Snook and his wife Charlotte Mantill.
1865: His mother died. Father apparently never remarried.
1871: Still there.
1881: Still there - a "mariner".
1884: Married local gardener's daughter, Annie Perkins. Moved to 23 Station St, Lymington.
1886: Annie Maud born.
1887: Walter Martell born.
1890: William Henry George (another mystery man!) born.
1891: Still at 23 Station St - a "yacht steward" (this seems to have been a Merchant Navy position)
1893: Agnes Emily Perkins born. His father, Henry, died (South Stoneham).
1893-1899: A bit of a gap (see questions below)
1899: His wife died (Lymington)
1901: Living on his own means at a hotel in Southampton dockland. His children scattered.
1906: Living in a different hotel in Northam.
1907: Apparently remarried, but wife's name not known (Bonnie Isaac or Fannie Woodcock).
1919: In the Merchant Navy - his ID card lists Bessie Snook (wife) as next-of-kin. Believed to be Bessie Evans. No idea if/when they married.
1925: Mentioned on son's marriage certificate as "caretaker" - probably of the fire station at 127 St Mary's Rd, Southampton
1925-1949: Virtually nothing known.
1949: Died in Birmingham, aged 88.
Other facts: Alderman Walter James William Broomfield figured significantly in his life. He was born at Dunsford and was distantly related via his mother, Elizabeth Jane Snook.
Other hearsay: He, Annie and the children moved to Dunsford at some stage in the 1890s and then moved on to the Wheatsheaf in Lymington, where the licensee was Priscilla Bright, who became wife of WJW Broomfield in 1910.
So here are the bits I can't work out:
1. What was the exact family relationship between Walter Charles Snook and Elizabeth Jane Snook? (I'm speculating that her father, Walter, might have been Henry's cousin, but that's as close as I can see them)
2. Why was there such a strong bond between Elizabeth Jane Snook and WCS? (Difficult to answer that genealogically!)
3. If WCS took his young family to Dunsford, why? (He seems to have been a career seaman, not a farmer)
4. Why/when did they move back to the Wheatsheaf, if it actually happened? (and was there any link between Priscilla Bright and the Snook/Broomfield families at the time or was it merely coincidencental that she took the Snooks in and later married WJWB?)
5. Where were they all when Annie Snook (nee Perkins) died in 1899? (her place of death is recorded as Lymington, but would that include Dunsford/Boldre?)
6. Why, on census night in 1901, were the two sons at Dunsford, the two daughters at separate addresses in Sholing, WCS in a hotel and Priscilla Bright nowhere at all?
7. Why did WJW Broomfield apparently play such a key part in the lives of his distant relations? (I don't see how anyone can possibly know that, but I'm documenting it as one of the mysteries)
If any of you can help with either additional facts or honest speculation, I'd be very grateful either way.
Cheers,
Brian
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Hello everyone,
Firstly my apologies, on looking more closely at the 1891 census which I transcribed earlier I think it shows Elizabeth Jane being 33 not 38. :-[
I've looked on the GRO index and can't find any birth of an Elizabeth Jane SNOOK between 1841-1844 but I can find the birth of
Elizabeth Ann SNOOK Sep Q 1848 Southampton v.7 p.217
This would fit with the daughter of Henry and Charlotte SNOOK as from the 1851 census (reply 5), the 1861 census (reply 4) and the 1871 census (reply 3), she is listed as being born in Southampton, Lymington and Beaulieu.
Then Elizabeth Ann seems to disappear and Elizabeth Jane appears after marrying James BROOMFIELD in 1879.
Does anyone think it's possible that these two are the same person? making Elizabeth BROOMFIELD nee SNOOK the sister of Walter Charles SNOOK ???
Only getting the Marriage certificate of James BROOMFIELD and Elizabeth Jane SNOOK could prove this, and if it's not her at least you'd find out who she is. :)
Daisy
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Daisy,
I like your approach, but you might have earned a slapped wrist from Nell as a result!!...
I know about Elizabeth Ann Snook and yes, she does seem to disappear off the face of the earth after having married William Thomas of Penarth in 1874. Our Elizabeth Jane Snook should have been born in 1857 or thereabouts - is your maths letting you down??
So I'm still preferring the Elizabeth C Snook of Bucklers Hard who shows up in the 1861 census, aged 4, especially as I can see the birth of Elizabeth Jane Snook in the New Forest district in the Dec quarter 1857 BMD index (2b 548).
Keep speculating - I've proven some of my own outlandish hunches already!
Cheers,
Brian
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I now have evidence that Walter Charles Snook was living in a Temperance Hotel in 1906. Clearly this implies it was an alcohol-free zone, but does it imply anything else?
Could anyone stay at these hotels or were they supposed to be for people "drying out"?
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......but you might have earned a slapped wrist from Nell as a result!!...
Er, why would I give anyone a slapped wrist about this? ??? Daisy's approach to the problem is a good one - eliminate those candidates that you can until you find the right one. And ladies have been known to lie about their age.
If anyone can find Elizabeth Jane Snook in 1861 or 1871, it might be possible to establish where she fits in.
Nell
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Oh, Nell, I like a bit of banter...
Yes, it would be nice to find an Elizabeth Jane Snook in 1871 (in Bucklers Hard, Beaulieu, aged 14), but given the size of Bucklers Hard - not quite a metropolis, especially after shipbuilding had ceased there - isn't it (extremely) highly likely that the Elizabeth C Snook listed there in 1861 (aged 4) is the Elizabeth Jane Snook of the 1891 census, b. Bucklers Hard, aged 33? And that the middle name is simply an enumerator cock-up??
Are you able to see if her father, Walter (from 1861 census), is related to Henry Snook (b.1824)? I'm speculating (!) that Henry's father, William (b. Beaulieu Rails, 1798) might be Walter's uncle.
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There are 117 entries for the name SNOOK on the Hampshire CALM database
http://calm.hants.gov.uk/DServeA/search.htm
Should be worth a look.
bearkat
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Bearkat,
Thanks for the hint. At first glance there's nothing stands out, but I'll take a closer look when I have a bit more time. I like the photo of the film extras towards the end of the list though!
You don't have anything on your Comyn/Shrubb survey that gives us a connection between the squatters and Walter Snook of Bucklers Hard (born 1820's?), do you?
Cheers,
Brian
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Hello everyone,
and thanks Nell :).
It was just a theory, and I thought you liked myths and legends Brian ;).
I didn't realise you had found the birth of Elizabeth Jane in 1857, and somewhere amongst all these pages and people I missed the probable marriage of Elizabeth Ann and William THOMAS in 1874, by the way why is he William of Penarth?
I also hadn't seen the 1881 census, (below in case others haven't seen it) which shows the son-in-law William THOMAS as being born in Pembury, Wales.
1881 census RG11/1189 f.103 p.31
Henry SNOOK Head Wid 57 Ship-smith Hants Beaulieu
Annie SNOOK Daur Unm 25 Housekeeper Dom " " Lymington
Walter " " Son Unm 20 Mariner " " " "
Emily " " Daur Unm 18 Dressmaker " " " "
William THOMAS Son-in-law Mar 34 Master Mariner South Wales Pembury
Now knowing William THOMAS is from Wales I have found a possible match for him in the 1891 census.
RG12/921 f.69 (no page number), Vessels, Southampton
Vesssel named C.H.S ?
William THOMAS widower 44 Master Pembrey Carmarthenshire
(with other crew)
As he is a widower it would explain why we can't find Elizabeth Ann THOMAS/SNOOK in 1891, but I think I have found her in 1881 :)
1881 Wales census, RG11/5377 f.12 p.18 Pembrey, Carmarthenshire
3 Sandfield Terr.
Elizabeth THOMAS Head Mar 32 Master Mariners Wife Hants Southampton
Charlotte " " Daur 10 Scholar Hants Lymington
Elizabeth A " " Daur 2 Carmarthen Pembrey
Elizabeth DAVIES Visitor 9 Scholar " " " "
As she has a daughter Charlotte who would have been born 1871, before the marriage of William and Elizabeth, she could be the questioned 'daughter' of the 1871 census (reply 3). It could also explain why the Charlotte SNOOK 1890 marriage (reply 14) took place in Llanelly, as that registration district includes Pembrey.
Daisy
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Daisy,
Yup, I'm your myths and legends man, all right - but your latest findings seem boringly solid! ;)
My mistake re. Penarth - sorry, I meant Pembury/Pembrey.
So Elizabeth was in Pembury on census night 1881 while her husband was in Lymington? It's got to be them, but I can't guess why they did the swapsie. And, yes, it does look as though she must have died before 1891, leaving her illegitimate daughter Charlotte to marry Louis Thomas. Whether or not Louis was a relation of William we still don't know.
Nice work! Thanks!
Cheers,
Brian
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Sorry, I don't think I have anything on Walter SNOOK of Buckler's Hard.
The photogragh is wonderful - I wonder if AmyK has seen it? She is researching KITCHERS.
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Hi Brian,
Did you ever get the Marriage certificate of Walter BROOMFIELD and Priscilla BRIGHT?
If not I may have another myth/legend for you:)
Regards
Daisy
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Daisy,
What? Spend money - when they weren't even family??
No, I'm perfectly happy with their part of the story without any actual documentation in my mitts, though I still don't know why they were apparently so close to the Snooks.
But don't tease me by withholding myths and legends! What've you got?
Cheers,
Brian
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OK here goes, but I think this may be a really looooong shot :)
First what we think we know :)
1901 John BRIGHT b.1854 is the landlord at the Wheatsheaf Inn
1910 Priscilla BRIGHT marries Walter JW BROOMFIELD
1911 Priscilla BROOMFIELD is at the Wheatsheaf Inn
1952 Priscilla BROOMFIELD dies
Now much depends on whether she is the Priscilla BROOMFIELD who dies Sep Q 1952 New Forest v.6b p.260 age 82, if she is then she was born abt.1870
Now, bear with me ::)
In 1901 there is a Priscilla DOLPHIN who's single b.1870 Chipping Campden, Gloucestershire working as a servant in Milford, Hampshire.
In Sep Q 1903 Kensington v.1a p.509 a Priscilla DOLPHIN marries
other names on page,
John BRIGHT
Samuel Joseph ALLEN
Alice Gertrude H HARVEY
In 1907 a John BRIGHT dies age 54 Jun Q Lymington v.2b p.409
Now if that's the Wheatsheaf John and if he is the one who married Priscilla, she would now be the widow BRIGHT, Landlady of the Wheatsheaf Inn
The only Priscilla DOLPHIN I can see on the 1871,1881,1891 & 1901 is from Gloucestershire, although why they would have married in Kensington is beyond me ::)
Maybe someone could find a Obit. for John BRIGHT, or maybe just this once :) you could buy the certificate of Walter & Priscilla :o
Well there you go, I did warn you, someone will probable disprove this in 10 mins :) but I just couldn't resist it ;D
Regards
Daisy
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Daisy,
Thanks for that - even if it does put the kyebosh on some of my own (unsubstantiated) theories!!
The John Bright who died in Lymington in 1907, aged 54, doesn't look as though he can have been either of the John Brights of Marylebone in the 1881 census. That doesn't bother me - it was always tenuous.
The 1952 death of Priscilla Broomfield, once of the Wheatsheaf, comes from the newspaper obituary of the Alderman. I'm not entirely sure where the official borders of "New Forest" are for registration purposes, but it certainly couldn't be too far from Lymington. If she were 82 at that point, then she was about 11 years older than her toyboy husband Walter and 40 when they married. The cutting said that Walter had died at the home of his son, but whether or not that was actually a stepson wasn't clear.
The existence of the Gloucestershire Priscilla Dolphin in the area is not implausible since she was already a servant down the road in Milford, though I agree that her getting wed in London is a bit of a mystery. What flies rather in the face of all this, however, is Nell's evidence that Mrs. Priscilla Armstrong was already at the Wheatsheaf in 1898. I think we now know she wasn't an Armstrong at the time, but does it seem likely that she was at the pub as Miss Dolphin in 1898, then a servant in Milford in 1901, then married and back at the pub as Mrs Bright in 1903??
What would you be hoping for from the Broomfield/Bright marriage certificate? I'd have expected the bride's address to be the Wheatsheaf either way, but are you thinking that she would have to have declared her original name (eg: Priscilla Bright, formerly Dolphin) and her status as widow rather than spinster?
Cheers,
Brian
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On a different tack, I believe we've now started to solve one of the other family mysteries - the first wife of Walter Martell Snook. He married Ruth Hawkins (b.Guestling 1883) in the Battle, Sussex, area in 1915. I reckon it was probably actually at Ashburnham where Walter was a gardener and Ruth's father a carpenter on the Ashburnham House estate.
However, there's still no evidence forthcoming of her death - which would have accounted for his proclaimed status as widower when he married my wife's grandmother in 1925. Any clues as to how I go about pinning down when she died? Any stories about anyone whom any of you have researched before who claimed to be a widower in unclear circumstances?
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Hi Brian,
If she is this Priscilla, then yes I would expect her to say she was a widow, I would think it would be strange if she said spinster when everyone in Lymington would know that she was the widow BRIGHT of the Wheatsheaf :)
From marriages certificates I have, I would be hoping it would say
Priscilla BRIGHT Widow 41 Father; ?? ?? DOLPHIN
If it doesn't say that at least you will find out who she was :)
Go on Brian, just this once ;)
Regards
Daisy
P.S. Who's Priscilla ARMSTRONG ???
I have been trying to look at the 1898 to see where John BRIGHT is then, as he's at the Wheatsheaf in 1891 and 1901, but I can't get on the site at the moment. Here's the address if you want to have a look later when it will load!
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/
Daisy
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You'd have to be Freud to work out why I said Priscilla Armstrong. I've never heard of the woman!!
I meant Broomfield. Sorry.
Now, be careful about pushing me over the edge on the business of spending money on this mullarkey. I have only this afternoon paid £7 (seven whole quid) just to see if Walter Martell Snook's wife really did die in 1924. I'm desperately hoping she didn't so that Worthing Register Office will have to send my money back! ;)
But Priscilla Wossername isn't even family. Tell you what, I'll go halves with you now you're even keener than me to find out the truth!!
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Just to let you know that my £7 investment served only to thicken the plot!
Ruth Snook, died March 1924, was "Of Thakeham RD. Wife of Walter Snook a farmer" according to the death certificate, but the informant was HW Fry, The Occupier, The Pines, Thakeham, which is where she died. It looks as though he got her age wrong as well as her husband's occupation, but it does rather suggest that Ruth and Walter were no longer an item. Whether Ruth and Mr Fry were an item is a different matter! It certainly freed Walter up to remarry in 1925 and might explain why he was unpopular with his second wife's family.
Had she been a servant/housekeeper at the Pines, do you think the "occupation" column would have said so?
Given that there appears to be nothing else that comes close to a record of her death, do you think it's safe to infer that this is the right woman, despite the discrepancies in detail?
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Henry Snook baptised 27 Feb 1824 Beaulieu, parents William & Ann
Possible siblings (i.e. all have the same parents listed):
Elisabeth 1 Feb 1818
Sarah 24 Jan 1819
George 2 Sep 1821
William 29 Mar 1825
Moses 2 Dec 1832
Alfred 1 Jul 1838
Nell
This family is listed in Comyn's New Forest book in 1817.
William Snooks and Anne (nee Picket)
living at Beaulieu rails with
Elizabeth born Jan 1817
Sarah born dec 1818.
Anne's parents listed as Thomas Picket and Elizabeth (nee Hurle)
Sarah (married Shathe) born 8 Jan 1785 - ill with 4 children
Henry born 21 June 1794
Anne (married Snooke) born 29 Oct 1798
Elizabeth born 18 June 1801
Lived at Beaulieu Rails.
the other Snook family also lived in Beaulieu rails was
Mary (nee Harris) 1st marriage to Fielder then 2nd marriage to Snook. No mr snook listed.
Zipporah (female) Fielder born 1789 (aged 12 caused a row over boundary dispute between boldre and Beaulieu in 1801)
Jane born 3 Jan 1793
Harriet born Feb 1794
Frances (married Thomas) Feb 1796
William born Feb 1798
Betsey born June 1803
Hope this helps anyone.
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Thanks for taking the trouble to write that all down - as it happens, I think we have it all already, but this thread is so humungously long that I can't blame you for missing it.
I was actually in Beaulieu Rails (ie: East Boldre) at the weekend. Couldn't find any trace of the Snook(s) hovels as shown on Comyn's map, but the ham and eggs at the Turfcutters Arms was very good indeed.
I think Mary Harris/Fielder/Snook was George Snook's wife - but I have no proof. I'd really like to get some provenance for this and try to get back beyond George if possible. Any ideas?
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Jude James works for the Library at Lymington. They may be able to pass on a message for help if you contact them. Sometimes he can be found working in there. Not sure what he can look up for you but he may have futher details.
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Thanks for the tip. I'll do just that.
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I've lost track of this thread but ............
Here are a couple of SNOOK baptisms from the Beaulieu parish records
Elizabeth Jane daughter of William (grocer)and Jane SNOOK of Bucklers Hard 5 March 1857
William Scanes son of William (publican) and Jane SNOOK of Bucklers Hard 6 February 1859
sorry, the father was Walter
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I don't think you missed much while you were away - it's been too hot recently...
I reckon Elizabeth Jane Snook (b.Bucklers Hard 1857) is the mother of Alderman WJW Broomfield who plays a significant part in the life of our Snook family around the turn of the century. I'd thought, though, that her father was Walter, not William. Are you sure it's William?
By the way, I've been in touch with Jude James - he was able to give me some insights on interpreting the Comyn/Shrubb survey, but had no more information on the Snooks.
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Just breathing some life into this thread: seems a pity to let it die!
Has anyone yet discovered the identity of the SNOOK who married Mary FIELDER [nee HARRIS] of Beaulieu Rails, and which of the children listed with her in Comyn's 1817 were SNOOKs?
William Feb 1798 and Betsey June 1803 were recorded children of Edward FIELDER/Mary in the Beaulieu PRs at baptism.
The following two FIELDERs appear with John FIELDER & Mary [nee WHITE] in Comyn's but are attributed with other paternity in the Beaulieu Baptisms PR No. 4:
Benjamin 1790 son of Charles FIELDER/Mary
Anne White 1793 dau of George FIELDER/Mary
Also, is it feasible that the 'Zipporah' FIELDER who supposedly caused the controversy on the Boldre/Beaulieu boundary was the Zeborah FIELDER aged 77 buried Beaulieu 04 Aug 1805?
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Dee-Jay,
Thanks for the breath of life! Though it's also a spanner in the works! But such is the nature of this hobby...
1. I'm still thinking that Mary Harris/Fielder/White married GEORGE Snook. This is pure guesswork based on Footnote 12 of Jude James's book about the squatters.
2. I hadn't suspected that William (b 1798) might be a Fielder who was "adopted" by Mary's new husband. But it looks as though that might be what happened. Thus George Snook (if it be he) is probably not in the bloodline at all and I should be branching out into the Fielder family instead. What more, if anything, do we know about Edward Fielder and Mary White and their ancestors?
3. I can't find any information about the "Harris" phase of Mary Snook's past life. It looks as though she might have started out as a White, then consumed several husbands (Fielder, Harris, Snook). Any more details in the registers?
4. The Zipporah/Zeborah link doesn't look right to me, despite the unusual nature of the name. Our Zipporah was born in 1789, so she was going some to have reached the ripe old age of 77 by 1805! I guess she could have been a grandmother or great-grandmother after whom the child was named? More work needed on the Fielder family, methinks...
If you've access to the Beaulieu/Boldre registers, then please see what else you can find for me on this topic. Because the Snook line had dried up completely.
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I think the Zeborah you mention looks the right age to have mothered Edward and his siblings. She would have been born c1728 and Edward would have been born c1756 or 1764 if he died as you have said at age 50 or 58 in 1814
I see in the on line deaths for Beaulieu that a Fielder of unknown forename was buried 1 Aug, 1785. It was possibly Zeborah's spouse.
Beth
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Am I missing a link here somewhere? Where do we learn that Edward Fielder died in 1814 aged 50 or 58?
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Hi B.E.
There is another thread which includes some of the Snook information and dee-jay was kind enough to add that little snippet yesterday.
As a computer dummy I have yet to learn how to link topics but hope this will help you read the information.
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=147913.new;topicseen#new
By the way. I hope the birthday party was a roaring success.
Beth
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Hi folks
I only discovered Comyn's for myself yesterday so I've a bit of work to do to validate some of his claims. I'm hoping he was correcting errors in the PRs but I do question a 12-years old child's ability to cause a boundary dispute? Most other disputes I've encountered were either instigated or resolved by those of a grand age, but I'll reserve judgment until I've had a chance to study the case.
I love mysteries and knocking down brickwalls, sometimes in the process re-writing history, so although I'm undertaking voluntary research on the origins of the FIELDER Shipwrights, I'll keep you abreast of any SNOOK developments.
Beaulieu Burials PR extract:
No 391 06 Jul 1828 Mary SNOOK 66 of Lymington
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OK. Thanks for that. I can now see the connection to the Rawlins thread.
I got the impression pretty early on that Comyn wasn't anything like 100% reliable, but it's still a good resource. I'm also interested in demolishing brickwalls, many of which were actually erected by living family members unable to distinguish between folklore and fact!
So, just one or two checks:
1. Are we agreed that Mary Fielder wasn't actually "nee Harris" but "formerly Harris, nee White"?
2. Are we positing Mary Snook d.1828 as she who was born Mary White? I don't think I have a DOB for Mary White.
Oh, and the birthday party was fine, thanks - the old bat has had another birthday since then and is still going strong!
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I'll stick to reporting the facts and leave you to conjecture until I'm more assured on this new, for me, area of research! ;D
BEAULIEU MARRIAGES
No 105 19 Jun 1786
Edward FIELDER (sgd) Widower otp
Mary HARRIS (x) Spinster otp
Witnesses: John FIELDER (sgd); Wm PAYN (sgd)
No 106 03 Aug 1786
John FIELDER (sgd) otp
Mary WHITE (sgd) otp
Witnesses: Frances KEALY[?] (sgd); Christr WESTBROOK (sgd)
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Hi folks
I only discovered Comyn's for myself yesterday so I've a bit of work to do to validate some of his claims. I'm hoping he was correcting errors in the PRs but I do question a 12-years old child's ability to cause a boundary dispute? Most other disputes I've encountered were either instigated or resolved by those of a grand age, but I'll reserve judgment until I've had a chance to study the case.
I love mysteries and knocking down brickwalls, sometimes in the process re-writing history, so although I'm undertaking voluntary research on the origins of the FIELDER Shipwrights of Rotherhithe, I'll keep you abreast of any SNOOK developments.
Beaulieu Burials PR extract:
No 391 06 Jul 1828 Mary SNOOK 66 of Lymington
May I assure you that Jude, (who is a family friend as well as a former tutor of mine) is very particular in his research and is not prone to wild speculation. If the Rev Comyn was accurate in what he wrote, Jude will have faithfully trancribed that, and backed it up with extensive research, pointing out, where appropriate any inconsistencies he has discovered. :)
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Yes, I've spoken with Jude too and have no doubts about the integrity of his research.
That said, I find the conjecture at least as enjoyable as the facts, so please don't let's allow the pursuit of accuracy to cramp our style completely! Some of my own conjecturing has proven to be way off-beam, but at the same time I've managed to put 2 and 2 together successfully on several occasions with a bit of out-of-the-box thinking.
Anyway, the marriage register would appear to show beyond all reasonable doubt that Mary Harris and Mary White were two completely different people.
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May I assure you that Jude .... is very particular in his research .....
So am I but I would never deter a questioning attitude to any aspect of my research or a healthy debate in a friendly forum.
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dee-jay,
Is there a record of Edward Fielder's first marriage and whether there were any children from it?
Beth
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Beth
I've only recently embarked on this line of research and my predominant aim was to locate a link for Charles FIELDER born c 1796 into one of the Beaulieu families. The Reverend Henry Comyn appears to have accomplished that: now I need to find the provenance.
In the process I hope to sift out the FIELDER records of the Lymington/Boldre/Beaulieu area and anywhere else in Hampshire that this research takes me. Sadly, for me, the Beaulieu Poor Law records that I would ordinarily consult are not deposited at HRO, where I could study them at my leisure, but there is a wealth of documents there that I intend to scrutinize because I get a 'buzz' out of new lines of research that stimulate my grey cells!
I freely share my findings but don't hold your breath, as I endeavour to make a secondary check for accuracy before reporting. When I first embarked on this obsession some 20 years ago, an eminent Village Historian taught me a salutary lesson: when I could not prove the associations he claimed and I asked him for his source, he confessed that he'd guessed! That's why I prefer to reserve judgment and am not prepared to accept others' research unquestioningly. No research is ever wasted: before long I had contact with a direct descendant who benefited.
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In the process I hope to sift out the FIELDER records of the Lymington/Boldre/Beaulieu area and anywhere else in Hampshire that this research takes me. Sadly, for me, the Beaulieu Poor Law records that I would ordinarily consult are not deposited at HRO, where I could study them at my leisure, but there is a wealth of documents there that I intend to scrutinize because I get a 'buzz' out of new lines of research that stimulate my grey cells!
There are some Boldre poor law records.
The Hampshire CALM database
http://calm.hants.gov.uk/DServeA/search.htm
has several references to the name FIELDER.
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Thanks, bearkat, I had included those in my list of documents to be scrutinized but, ideally, I would have liked to set them beside those for Beaulieu.
HRO is my local Record Office, where I worked for a short time before the move to the custom-built premises.
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Boldre Marriage by Henry Comyn
by Banns 01 Apr 1816 No 117
George SNOOK (x) otp
Mary FIELDER (x) wid otp
Witnesses: John FIELDER (sgd); Harriet FIELDER (sgd).
It now seems likely all the issue listed by Comyn in Mary SNOOK's family in 1817 were FIELDERs.
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Ah, very good!
Though a bit later than I'd envisaged. Am I right that we now have a situation where George Snook married in 1816 (not an April Fool, I trust!) but had disappeared off the face of the Beaulieu Rails by the time of Comyn's survey in 1817? Do we have a death at Boldre for him in that period? He certainly stayed long enough for the children - even 18-year-old William - to change their name to "Snook"...
In other words, a sanity check: it was definitely 1816 and not 1810??
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What evidence do you have that the FIELDER children of Edward/Mary changed their name to SNOOK?
I can assure you there is no mistake about the date of Widow Mary FIELDER's marriage to George SNOOK. She did not re-marry before Edward's 1814 burial! However, George's marital status was not recorded so it is possible he had children elsewhere?
There are also these Boldre marriages:
02 Jan 1815 Charles THOMAS to Fanny FIELDER with witnesses James HARRIS and A.W. FIELDER
18 Feb 1819 Thomas WALLIS to Harriett FIELDER of Lymington with witnesses Michael PHILLIPS and Elisabeth FIELDER
15 Jan 1822 William FIELDER to Elizabeth TINSLEY with witnesses Thomas WALLIS and Jane FIELDER
[William FIELDER joined Hampshire Constabulary 1840, resigned 1860 on medical grounds and retired to Beaulieu Rails where he died 1865.]
I extracted the last marriage first, as a specific date was recorded by Shrubb, but I have only scratched the surface of the Boldre marriages and hope to complete my search of the 1813-1830 register at next visit. I don't envisage a search for George SNOOK's burial in the near future, so you might consider it advantageous to request a look-up in the HBI?
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Thank you dee-jay for the Snook and further Fielder information.
Beth
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There is a burial for George SNOOK (aged 68) on 14th October 1826 at Beaulieu.
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Thanks for that, bearkat. I'll check the entry for any further details next time at HRO, as you've given a specific date.
In the meantime, would it be possible to let me have a PM with details of FIELDER burials (if any) prior to 1783 in Beaulieu/Boldre as I'm trying to ascertain whether they were local in origin or came south with Adams from Deptford in 1749. The FIELDER shipwrights, with the exception of Benjamin, appear to have headed for Limehouse after the Adams' Company went bankrupt in 1818.
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Evidence that the Fielder children changed their names to Snook?
I thought Comyn listed Mary Snook (but not George Snook) with Zipporah Fielder and then a bundle of Snooks, including William b.1798. This appears to tally with William Fielder (son of Edward and Mary) baptised in 1798. We also putatively have William repeated and living further up the road with his own family in 1817. That was what I was going on.
So I'm confused about George Snook. Current data has him marrying Mary Fielder in 1816 but not living with her in 1817 and not dying until 1826 (aged 68). So he was a 58-year-old widower when he married. The new Mrs Mary Snook and her kids moved in? Zipporah retained her birth name, but the others took on their stepfather's name? And then Mary kicked the old man out? H-E-L-P!!
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From the IGI I have found an Edward Fielder, christened 17 Feb, 1757, Hursley,Hants. Parents, Edward Fielder and Zipporah Cook who married in Hursley 13 Oct, 1755.
Edward married Anne Potter, also of Hursley in 1781. No record found of her death but no evidence either of any living children from the union.
It all fits together and seems unlikely to all be coincidence.
If you seek more Fielders, there appear to be a clan of them in Hursley over quite a time span.
Beth
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Jude James, in Comyn's 1817 Directory, did not list any of the children after Zipporah FIELDER with a surname, so it's unsafe to assume they took on the SNOOK surname. The marriages so far found for the girls have them recorded FIELDER and I note that the witnesses to the William FIELDER [Police Constable]born c1800/Elizabeth TINSLEY marriage were Jane FIELDER [possibly his sister] and Thomas WALLIS [possibly brother-in-law who married Harriett FIELDER]. William FIELDER's Will was witnessed by the Baptist Minister BURT and his wife.
Thanks, Beth, for the information on the Hursley FIELDERs. I'll keep them on the 'back-burner' until the Beaulieu Estate Archivist has responded to a request that I hope will turn up the Settlement Examination for the 'Zipporah' of the boundary dispute. According to Widnell, author of The Beaulieu Record, Zipporah refused to attend the hearing and had to be fetched in the night as her evidence was crucial. My instinct suggests that was more likely the obstinacy of a crone than a recalcitrant young girl. The footnote of Jude James concerning Zipporah: 'This woman, as a girl of 12 years of age, seems to have been the catalyst in the boundary dispute ....' does not rule out my theory. I continue to reserve judgment .....
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OK, I'm only getting the Comyn information via this thread, so I have to rely on those of you who have the document in front of you.
My own previous assumption was that William Snookes at the top of the hill and William Snook/Fielder living with Mary Snook were one and the same bloke - and the duplication was an inadvertent error made by Comyn or Shrubb, probably because he'd moved out between the two versions of the survey.
Henry Snook (b.1924) was the son of William & Ann. Comyn has William Snooks' other half being Ann nee Picket, and the children at Beaulieu Rails at that time as Elizabeth and Sarah. Their baptismal records suggest the same parentage as Henry's. So I'm sure they're my family.
If William Snook(s) isn't William Fielder, then who were his parents?
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Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of Comyn's Directory in front of me but I do have accurate FIELDER extracts from the copy held at HRO.
Mary (Harris, Fielder) SNOOK was shown as the principal occupier of BRS 23 in 1817, which suggests she held it in her own right. It is interesting to note that the only other 2 properties in which FIELDERs had an interest were consecutive: BRS 24 - principal occupier Joseph PECKHAM [whose mother appears to have been a TINSLEY and, after 1822 marriage to Elizabeth TINSLEY, William & Betty FIELDER were listed there by Shrubb but whether as lodgers is unclear] - and BRS 25 with principal occupier John FIELDER, Shoemaker, wife Mary (White) and children.
I haven't researched the baptisms of any SNOOKs but if I encounter any during my subsequent PR searches I'll extract them for you. However, it appears that widow Mary FIELDER was past child-bearing age at marriage to George SNOOK.
I note that in 1841 Thomas PICKET 78 was recorded in the Furzy Lodge h/h of William & Ann SNOOK, both recorded aged 40, with the remaining children at home: William 15, Moses 7, Ann 5 and Alfred 3. In 1861 Widower William SNOOK [Father-in-law in the h/h of Edward & Sarah BOUND] gave his age as 67, so it appears you should be seeking his baptism c1794-1796 at Beaulieu.
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Well, if the 1861 census is correct in having William SNOOK (new spelling!) aged 67, then it would appear unlikely that he's actually William Fielder, baptised in 1898, whose mother became a SNOOK by marriage.
Maybe he was the offspring of George SNOOK's first marriage? If so, who was George's first wife? You're right, I need a registered baptism around 1794 for William SNOOK. Or a marriage between George SNOOK and Miss X.
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Once again, the last 10 minutes of 4 hours' research revealed clues I wasn't able to pursue tonight! Beaulieu Baptisms & Burials 1783-1802 unexpectedly 'coughed up' the baptism of Hannah, dau of George & Mary SNOOK, on 14 Apr 1799, as I was about to abandon research for the day. With only a few minutes to go before HRO closure, I found the Beaulieu Banns of Marriage of George SNOOK otp and Mary TRIPPUP [!] of Fawley called on 23 & 30 July and 06 Aug 1786. If I get an opportunity to return to HRO this week I'll see if I can locate the marriage, but I found no trace of William SNOOK's baptism in the 1783-1802 Beaulieu register.
The abode recorded for burial of George SNOOK 68 on 14 Oct 1826 was 'near Beaulieu Rails'. I also extracted a few other SNOOK burials from the Beaulieu Register 1813-1895 which I'll type-up in the next day or so if you need them?
Update 17 Nov 2007:
Beaulieu Marriages by Banns
29 Aug 1786 George SNOOK (x) otp/Mary TRIPUP (x) of Fawley
Witnesses: John WESTBROOK (sgd); Ann WHITE (sgd)
14 Nov 1806 John BUNDEY (sgd) bachelor otp/Sarah SNOOK (x)
Witnesses: James BUNDEY (sgd); Urior MOTT (sgd)
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I'm liking the sound of Miss Tripup potentially as George's first wife and the mother of William, b.1798. Any more where that came from? Like dozens more kids from the same stable? Mary's DOB? George's parents?
[PS. This is B.E. resurrected - I lost my password and original email address so had to re-register!]
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Hello BE again....
Just a quick note to say I found SNOOK's buried in Sunninghill, Berks.
St Micheal and All Saints on the edge of the Windsor estate.
Lesanne.
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I haven't come across any Sunninghill Snooks in my travels yet - it's bit of a leap from Beaulieu Rails to the commuter belt! Though I guess poaching from Windsor Great Park is pretty much the same as doing it in the New Forest.
But then there are so many of 'em!
What era are we talking about?
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I was rummaging about in the old part... abt 1700 -1850 ish.
There was a migration over to Middx/Berks from the west country. I also have a SNOOK will, downloaded, a Sarah, Richard named, I think from memory.... ::)
I'll take a look later and get it to you.
Lesanne
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This is B.E. resurrected -
:o B***** 'E**! Thought you'd left the planet! I did check periodically to see if you'd been back online, and I'm relieved to know you'd not received a call to a higher place!
These are the extracts from Beaulieu Burials 1813-1895:
No 836 25 Apr 1849 Ann SNOOK 52 Furzy Lodge
No 889 30 Nov 1851 Charlotte SNOOK 2 yrs Lymington
No 1076 15 Dec 1861 Walter SNOOK 27 Bucklers Hard
No 1116 14 Feb 1864 William SNOOK 70 Furzey Lodge
No 1439 18 Jan 1883 Ann SNOOK 79 NF Union Totton
No 1452 01 Jan 1884 Gilbert Walter SNOOK 9 mos Culverley Ex-parochial
No 1563 26 May 1892 Robert James SNOOK 16 mos Bucklers Hard
If anyone wants the FIELDER extracts from similar period, please send me a PM.
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Now why would I want to leave the planet while you're still coming up with gold dust like this??
I think William and Ann (nee Picket) who croaked at Furzey Lodge are definitely mine - I certainly didn't have Ann's demise recorded previously.
Charlotte might be too, though it doesn't tally 100%. In the 1851 census, Henry Snook (son of William and Ann above) was living in Bath Rd, Lymington with his wife and children, Elizabeth Ann (2) and Charlotte ("baby"). I'd recorded that Charlotte died in 1851, but I assumed she hadn't reached her first birthday. I don't have a baptism record for her so if she was less than 12 months old at census time a November death might get her to 18 months old. Any thoughts? When exactly was "Census Night" in 1851? What generally constituted "baby" status?
I think the Bucklers Hard pair are related to my wife's blood-line, but that branch of the family doesn't come into the picture for me again until around 1900 - and only peripherally so then.
I don't know where the other two come from.
But thanks! Keep 'em coming!
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Sorry, just had another look at the 1851 census info and spotted that Charlotte was 1, not "baby". Can't remember now where I got that from!
So yes, she may well have been 2 by November 1851.
I've forgotten the relationship between Beaulieu, Boldre and Lymington. I know where they are geographically, but why does there seem such a bewildering interchange of locations on official documents? Was Lymington "under" Beaulieu, for instance?
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Beaulieu is a village that grew up around the Beaulieu estate. Lymington is a town to the west. Boldre was a sprawling parish between the two. Many of the Beaulieu estate workers squatted on Forest land in Boldre, especially around Beaulieu Rails. They were close enough to work on the estate but weren't Beaulieu's problem if they fell on hard times.
It worth reading "East Boldre: A New Forest Squatters Settlement 1700 - 1900" by Jude James
http://www.geodata.soton.ac.uk/newforest/public/resources/eastb.html
It sets the scene and gives a fascinating insight into the life of the people.
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Thanks, we did Jude's stuff earlier on this thread (yes, it's a long thread, I know!). I've been in touch with Jude via email too.
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Was he able to give more help with your SNOOKS?
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Unfortunately not. There are still plenty of little mysteries out there, such as why George Snook married Mary Fielder in 1816 (albeit April Fool's Day!) and apparently stayed alive until his Beaulieu death in 1826, but didn't show up on the Comyn Survey in 1817. There's a house (no.23) belonging to Mrs Snook (who would appear to be Mary Fielder as was) but no sign of the old man.
I'm happy to imagine that he moved in with his new wife on their marriage and that she was the rightful owner of the property, but I'd have thought he might have got at least a mention. Maybe he always went for a smoke in his shed whenever the vicar popped round and Mrs S accidentally forgot to report that he was still alive?
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Not much escaped the eyes of the Reverend Comyn. ;)
I imagine George SNOOK was living in Beaulieu which wasn't part of Comyn's patch.
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Mrs S kicked him out within a year of their marriage, you reckon?
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'Tis certainly strange.
It's not as if Comyn's Directory was like a census which tells who was staying where on a particular night - it covers quite a long period of time.
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I am B.E. resurrected (couldn't remember my password, so started again!)...
I managed to solve a few family mysteries on the 1911 Census website, having soon worked out how to find entire families without having to spend any credits, but, as you might expect, uncovered a few more issues as a result...
In 1911 I now know that Walter Charles SNOOK was living with Bessie Eliza SNOOK. (This came as a minor surprise, since this logically would make her Elizabeth Elizabeth. ) On the basis of probability, but no evidence, I'm now assuming that she was actually the Bonnie Eliza ISAAC who was a 2-1 shot at marrying him in Southampton in 1907. Family tradition knows her as Bessie EVANS, but I can find no obvious trace of her as either Evans or Isaac in the birth registers or earlier censuses. We believe, as the name suggests, that she was Welsh, possibly b1869 Cardiff.
Can anyone tell me any more about the lady?
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Hi,
I tried searching the 1911 census for Bessie Eliza SNOOK, birthplace Southampton, and found one aged 42 living in Southampton, I found this birth,
Bessie Eliza ISAAC Sep Q 1868 Southampton 2c 28
The image of the marriage in 1907 shows Bessie not Bonnie,
Bessie Eliza ISAAC Dec Q 1907 Southampton 2c 68
Regards
Daisy
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Thanks for that, Daisy. Interesting news indeed!
So let me make sure I've got this right:
1. The original marriage record shows Bessie, but somebody has subsequently mistranscribed it as Bonnie?
2. It is possible for somebody to be called both Bessie and Eliza!
3. Bessie Eliza Isaac would appear to have been a spinster of this parish, aged 38, when she married in 1907.
4. Bessie Evans looks like a figment of the family's imagination!
Is that your reading of the evidence?
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In a word yes :D...
...but I must be clear that I have only looked at the images of the index records of the birth and marriage which both show Bessie Eliza, Ancestry has transcribed the marriage as Bonnie ::)
Daisy
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Thanks.
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With apologies for coming in late on this subject does anyone know if any of the Snook family moved to Urchfont, Wiltshire as I am some of those in my tree.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. David