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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: 2 lil dicky birds on Sunday 12 February 06 11:02 GMT (UK)
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Rather new to this but getting confused on how to figure this out without spending a fortune on ordering BMD certificates.
Dixon family Cumberland
We know G Grandfather was John Thomas Dixon born Harrington or Workington 1878. - There are two of these one Penrith the other Whitehaven. - have marriage and death cert but details not known
John Thomas Dixon has listed his father as Thomas on marriage cert. In small book from Boer war he has listed Sarah in brackets under Thomas' name in parents part - Grandmother or mother but deceased??
If parents are Thomas and Sarah Dixon - are they they ones that married in 1870 at Penrith (nee Kitchen) or in 1868 (nee Atkinson) in Penrith or the ones in 1875 (nee Denkin) in Penrith.
How do you tell which path to follow.....especially when children's names are all similar too...
Cheers
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Harrington comes in Whitehaven Dist, Workington in Cockermouth Dist.
You missed this possible Thomas/Sarah marriage - I would hesitate in going to Penrith without good reason.
Marriages Jun 1874
**DIXON Thomas Armstrong Whitehaven 10b 1027
**HANNAH Sarah Jane Whitehaven 10b 1027
McLaughlin Margaret Whitehaven 10b 1027
REID Thomas Whitehaven 10b 1027
Here is a possible birth-
Births Mar 1878
Dixon John Thomas S Whitehaven 10b 577
This accounts for one in Penrith
Deaths Sep 1878
Dixon John Thomas 0 Penrith 10b 277
Unfortunately, Ancestry censuses are not available at the moment, we'll have to check later.
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Hi
Can you give more information and say how you know it. For instance, how do you know his date and place of birth? Have you found him on a later census? Who did he marry? What kids did they have? What was his address and occupation at marriage? What did his father do? Who were the witnesses? They are often family members and can help to distinguish between one family and another. If you have some certificates then you actually can glean an awful lot from them.
I did not understand "There are two of these - one Penrith the other Whitehaven."
The 1881 census is free to search on either ancestry.co.uk or familysearch.org One way forward is to look at every Dixon male of the right age until you find one with father Thomas.
Let us know a bit more and I am sure someone will be able to help.
Andrea
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Hi, thanks for your comments ;)
I have John Thomas Dixon's marriage certificate.
He had only just got back from the Boer War (why he was not on the 1901 Census.)
Certificate reads;
1903 The Parish Church, St Johns Workington, Cumberland
December 26(?)th 1903
John Thomas Dixon, 26, Bachelor, Labourer, Main St Distington, Father; Thomas Dixon deceased - quarryman
Annie Whitehead, 26,, Spinster, Furnace Row Workington, Father; William Whitehead deceased - miner.
Witnessed by
William Wilson (Annie's younger step brother)
Mary Annie Robinson
This is registered Cockermouth
I have 2 of his 4 childrens birth certificates born here in New Zealand which listed birth place and age of father (John Thomas Dixon) as Parton Cumberland, England.
On JT Dixon's death certificate it has Harrington, County Cumberland, England. 81 year (abt) . Father - Thomas Mother - unknown
There are two meaning there are 2 John Thomas Dixons born 1878 one in Penrith one in Whitehaven. - how do you tell which one is his without ordering them.
I hope this helps explain - or can you help me more??
Thanks heaps
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There are two meaning there are 2 John Thomas Dixons born 1878 one in Penrith one in Whitehaven. - how do you tell which one is his without ordering them.
The JTD born in Penrith died in Q3 1878, as I posted above.
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Hi
There is no definitive answer - you follow all the paths until you have eliminated all but one (hopefully) or find definite proof of one.
As Geoff said - If the one in Penrith died, the one in Whitehaven is presumably yours - but - are you sure the year was 1878? Based on the marriage Dec 1903, age 26 I would think the birth was 1877 (but my arithmetic is not good). You have given us age at death (abt 81, but not year of death). - Ages given vary for many different reasons, so it is wise to search more than one year.
There are a couple of John Thomas Dixons registered in West Ward 1877 - which Genuki says is in Cumberland, but freeBDM says is in Westmoreland. An English expert could no doubt explain.
As Andrea mentioned, you need to find him on a census. The 1881 is free to view at familysearch.org .
There is no John Dixon listed with a father Thomas - so - either his father had died by 1881 OR there are spelling / location errors and you need to check virtually every John Dixon and perhaps every John Thomas born in Cumberland of the approx age. If you know the names of his siblings you could try searching for them.
There is a John Thomas of correct age, born Worthington, but his father is Edward, mother Catherine which tends to bring you back to the obvious - Harrington in Whitehaven.
If you think you have the correct person - you can buy the certificate - but note that the man born in Whitehaven is registered John Thomas S - did your man have another name? Could this be a pointer that his mother's maiden name began with an S or is it simply for Samuel ???
I found a possible John Thomas in 1891 born Arlecdon - living at Cockermouth - but he is living at an industrial school - student and gardener. Is it possible he was an orphan?
Trish
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Kia ora folks
Sorry JT Dixon died 1959 On son's birth age listed as 41 (1919)
Sister was Hannah Elizabeth Brigham (nee Dixon) that came from some Aunty's memory and her son Thomas Brigham came out to NZ to live with JT and Annie and their children.
Listed as next of kin on his small book under siblings - George and Edward and Hannah.
I can't find this family anywhere. - But yes do think that it might be John Thomas in Cockermouth Industrial School 1891.
Is that for delinquents, orphans or a mixture ?? Is there a school like this for girls that could have had sister Hannah??
Cheers
Elaine
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Hi Elaine and welcome to RootsChat!
I found this - hope this helps!!
http://www.missing-ancestors.com/CUMBERLAND%20COUNTY%20IND%20SCH%20COCKERMOUTH%20INFO%20PAGE.htm
This is a long list of other schools !! for girls also
http://www.missing-ancestors.com/ALPHABETICAL%20LIST%20OF%20ALL%20SCHOOLS.htm
Annie :)
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Thank you ;D
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Hi again
If you google "Parton Cumbria" you will find an article about it - it is on the coast by Moresby and very close to Harrington and Whitehaven. That would make sense of the different places of birth. I should write to Whitehaven register office and ask them to check if that particular birth is the son of a Thomas. You can then get it if it is. Ask about the marriage too as they will be able to see the mother's maiden name on the birth certificate. I think Penrith is a red herring - it is too far away. On the whole they tended to marry locally. Though I suppose there are always exceptions to every rule!
Otherwise try getting the film of the parish of Harrington at your nearest LDS centre or ask for a specific look up for a baptism.
Have you looked for Hannah's marriage? Another possible line to follow.
Andrea
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Hannah Elizabeth Dixon and George Brigham married Jun quarter 1900 Cockermouth 10b 1075
Andrea
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1901 census RG13 4883 F12 p15 14 Cross Hill Workington
George Brigham Hd 29 Steelworker b Workington
Hannah E wi 24 b Broughton
Broughton is in the same area but inland a bit.
Have you though of looking at his army records if JTD was in the Boer War?
Andrea
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Hi,
Thanks for that. Yes I have a copy of what they used to call "the small book", which is apparently what they had 2 copies of - one for the office and one on the soldier. This is where his father is listed as Thomas, mother (in brackets Sarah) and Hannah older sister, George younger brother, and Edward as younger brother. This dated 1899 when JT was enlisted for the Boer War. We have his medal card too now.
Have ordered a copy of what I hope is Hannah Elizabeth Dixon's birth certificate. Born June 1876 10b 580, Cockermouth. This date is right for the census as it was done in March and she hadn't had her birthday. Right? - and the middle name Elizabeth from the marriage.
ta muchly
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What's an LDS office? - Sorry I'm in New Zealand and a little naive about English terms
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The Church of the the Latter Day Saints Family history centre. If you go to
www.familysearch.org and where it says "find a family history centre near you" - enter New Zealand & you can find your closest centre. They have much useful family history research information available. If you find a family entry on the IGI you can order the parish film from them to check for any more details. If you haven't visited your local centre, it is well worth a visit.
Trish
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Ok - right gotcha.
I use there web site - familysearch.org.
Just found our local place here in Tauranga
Thanks - I might pay them a visit
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Just found our local place here in Tauranga
Thanks - I might pay them a visit
Really nice folks. This is where everyone used to research before the internet ;D ;D They will no doubt have all your NZ BDMs - may have England/Wales and Scotland as well & perhaps Oz states if you need them.
Trish
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I accidently stumbled on this website while I was looking up ancestry in England for the family name Dixon. I was quite surprised when I saw your name, 2 lil dickie birds. My Grandfather used to say and play the little game when I was just a child. I have never heard that expression used by anyone, until I saw your name on this site.
My Grandparents came to the US from Whitehaven, near Parton. His name was Joseph Bushire Dixon. I was wondering if you have ever heard that name in your research?
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Hi rtr, welcome to RootsChat :)
Presumably, this was your grandfather's birth registration
Births Sep 1892
DIXON Joseph Bewsher Whitehaven 10b 634
and his parents' marriage
Marriages Dec 1887
BEWSHER Betsy Whitehaven 10b 944
DIXON Isaac Whitehaven 10b 944
Here's the 1901 census
Main St, Parton, Moresby
Isaac DIXON 34 Clogger, Cleator
Betsy 33 Distington
Margaret 12
Isaac 10
Joseph 8
Hannah 6
John 3
Netty 10m
Children all born Moresby
Incidentally, there's a Parton website with all sorts of historical stuff http://www.pastpresented.info/cumbria/parton/index.htm
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Geoff-E, Many thanks for the info. It does match with what little I have. I hope to visit the UK next year and would love to get up to Whitehaven to see where we come from. Again, thanks!! Also, do you , by any chance, have the email of 2 lil dickie birds? It was those words that totally intrigued me, since they were a favorite of my grandfathers and I have not heard them in almost 40 years!
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Unfortunately we do not have access to any email addresses unless they show in the profile for the person concerned. You could try sending a personal message. Click on the green scroll under the name. If the email address has not changed since they registered that should get through, though it is some time since they have been online.
Regards
Andrea
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Hi rtr.
I don't know if it will help, but there was a Clogger Ike Dixon working from a basement type shop in Main Street
Parton in the 1930s. (he is not listed in Kelly's trade directory )
Also ref Geoffs post there was also Bewshers coal agents.
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Ayess, Thanks for the lead. I believe this was my Great Grandfather. On my Grandfathers manifest, he lists his father as Isaac. To much of a coincidence. I'm in the USA and it's so difficult trying to piece things together. I just got off of the phone with an uncle of mine who is 93 and the only relative to travel to the UK from time to time. Unfortunately at 93, his recall is a bit limited. Thanks again for your help!!
RTR
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Hi RTR.
Have sent you two PMs.
Art
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Art, Thanks for your help. Most appreciated!! What part of the world are you writing from?
RTR
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Hi RTR.
From Whitehaven.
Art.
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Art, Wow! That's a surprise. Maybe I can ask your help/advice on another issue. Next June or July my wife and I are planning a trip to England. Actually, we are going on a Land Tour of England, Scotland and Wales. The tour begins in Edinburgh and ends in London. We were thinking about coming over a week or so early and heading down to Whitehaven/Parton from Edinburgh. Is there a better/closer airport to Whitehaven that would make more sense? I have no idea as to how far it would be to travel down and of course back to Edinburgh to start the Tour. Is it a trip I would make by train or would renting a car make more sense! Remember, we Americans drive on the wrong side of the street!! What would you recommend? Also, are there any nice Bed and Breakfasts or other lodging facilities that you might recommend in or near Whitehaven. Any information/suggestions/ideas would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!!
RON
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Geoff, Not having much luck with my website skills but I'm going to be in Whitehaven/Parton on Sept. 13,2012 and am tring to get some direction as to how I might get the most out of my day. Looking to find some Dixon Roots. Thanks
Ron
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Hello there,
should the names Alice Mary Dixon - "me mam", Frederick John Dixon "me Granded" or Mary Dixon nee Bimson "me Nana", Tom Dixon who married Jane Dixon nee Templeton of 19 High Street Workington "me Great Granded and Grandmam show up in your research, give me a call? I also have relations in Whitehaven.
I'm looking into the Oakes of Camberwell (my Dad's bunch).
Cheers, Tony.
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My great great grandad was Anthony Dixon. He died quite young. His widow went on the run The Commercial Inn, Cockermouth. (now The Kingfisher)
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Hi there, may be able to help you . My grand mother was Born Isabel dixon in Distington Which is near Harrington. Her Grandmother was born in Harrington. They are very close knit commuities in Cumberland Can you give any more info and will try and shed light on it
Bluenose ;D
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rtr
my dad was born in Egremont and I was also brought up with the ryhme
two little dickie birds sitting on a wall
one named peter
one named paul
fly away peter
fly away paul
come back peter
come back paul
he would have a little piece of newspaper stuck to two of his finger nails and would put his hand behind his back when saying the fly away bit
and bring his hand back round minus the paper when saying the come back lines
is that the way you remember it
Regards
Half Pint ::) ::)