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Some Special Interests => One Name Studies => One Name Studies: A to G => Topic started by: behindthefrogs on Thursday 09 February 06 11:11 GMT (UK)
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The dozen or so people who are seriously tracing the Edlin family in Ickenham seem to have got stuck with John Edlin. he was born in 1765 and married three times
1) Alice Robinson in 1792. She and her three chidren died in the "plague" of 1799. This was documented by Dr Abraham Edlin of Uxbridge ( no relationship has been established)
2) Jane Lisson in 1803 (this surname which has been examined in the actual register and the Banns Book could be wrong). They had two children only one of whom, William, survived and is the ancestor of our line.
3) Mary Ann Warden in 1819. John died in 1821, their only daughter having not survived and she remarried Thomas Hallom (Fallon) in 1821.
My question quite simply is there anyone out there who has broken this brick wall? The parish registers do not help.
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Have you read " Genealogy and History of the Edlin Family " , author is Frank
Edward Edlin. He mentions a Dr. Edlin from NewYork who came from England soon after the Civil War. This branch of the family were Jewish and have a very strong presence along the Eastern coast of the USA. He goes on to say that he had engaged a Commercial genealogist ( Nancy L Halbert of Bath, Ohio ) to research the name EDLIN. The result was, that the name appeared to be patronymical in origin,associated with the English, King Eade. She has also supplied an early coat of arms taken from Rietstap Armorial General of England.
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I am not aware of that particular publication and will try to obtain a copy. Thank you.
The earliest immigrant to the US using the name Edelen would appear to be the Maryland family whose ancestor is Richard Edelen who emigrated in 1663. This particular branch can be traced throughout the US today using this unique spelling. I have seen no evidence that this spelling has ever been used in the UK other than by Richards parents.
There are a number of authentications of the arms used by various branches of this wider family all of which point to an English origin. Wagner in particular confirmed that the swan's neck crest was of Norman origin which fits with the speculative tree.
This family in particular can be traced, not without gaps in the Pinner area of Middlesex back to 1400. A century prior to that names would have been patronymic and so an English derivation is fairly certain.
If you look at the situation in Leicestershire the story is very much the same with links back to 1500 with a vague partronymic link back in 1196.
As to King Eade, I can't fit him anywhere into my knowledge or reference material on English History. Stories created by "professional" genealogists have a lot to answer for. Typical of these is the origins of the Edelen family mentioned above which are published all over the internet. It doesn't take much effort to show that the most common line claimed includes Richard of Woodhall, an unmarried batchelor who died with out issue.
David
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David, This was a private publication. I have a copy that was photostated for me by the Edlins in Arizona. There are several Edlins of the Jewish faith in the NY area, and I believe they are not part of the Edelins/Edelens of Maryland etc.
Kindest regards, John
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I have emailed you a copy of my document on the Edlin Coat of Arms. Let me know if any of it matches what is in the publication. I will eventually convert a copy of the arms suitable for this site
David
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Hi David, the two that I have are as follows :
arms: Ermine, a fess vair, in chief two arrows, saltireways proper, all within a bordure nebuly sable
crest:a swan's head between two wings argent
motto: suspice
arms:quartered: 1and 4 divided diagonally gold over black; a crook ending in a trefoil, placed diagonally and counterchanged; 2 and 3 silver; a red diagonal band between in top , a black eagle's leg and in base, a black wing turned to the left.
crest: a gold lion issuing and turned to the left, crowned gold.
crest: a swan,s head two wings , argent
David hope this helps. Regards, John
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Hi David,
I have the Sir Peter Henry Edlin coat of arms from Burkes Gen. Armory : Arms:
Ermine a fess vair, inchief two arrows saltirewise ppr. , all within a bordure nebuly sa. Crest : A crescent or. there from rising a falcon ppr. , belted and jested gold, each wing charged with a trefoil slipped vert. Motto: Suspice.
Kindest regards
John
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Those Coats of Arms are intreguing John. The one in my profile is that used by Aldenham Edlins and the Edelen family which emigrated to Maryland.
The one granted to Sir Peter Edlin contained variants from the Colshill family (his grandmother) in particular the crossed arrows in chief (top middle) and border, and used the Colshill Crest. I asked the College of Arms for a copy of the pedigree upon which this grant was based and was quoted £125 for them to look some years ago.
I know Sir Peters immediate pedigree but would like to know if he really links back to the 16th century family. The presence of the border may indicate that the College of Arms never actually proved it. I don't know my heraldry that well. Sir Peter was an eminent judge who presided at some interesting cases at the Old Bailey.
The similar one which reverted to the original crest may be that of his son Oswald who was also knighted. The unchanged shield would indicate that it belongs to an heir.
The use of the Swan's Neck and Wings Crest is supposed to indicate descent from the Counts of Louvain and Boulogne probably of a knight who came over with William the Conqueror but was not strictly a Norman.
David
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Hi David
Thankyou for your reply. I will copy and post to you. Could you please send a postal address. Also I have obtained copies of The English Historical Review of William Fitz Audelin ,thru The Oxford Press. Would you like copies ? I will get together all the info I have on the various crests as well.
Kindest regards. John
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Thank you John I will message you.
David
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Sir Peter Edlins CoA. I have been doing a bit of research.
bordure nebuly sa.
bordure as expected border but means that the link to the main line holding the coat of arms is probably through a younger son. There are other reasons but this seems the most likely.
nebuly - various pictures but basically a cloud shaped interface to the main shield rather that a straight line.
sa. sable i.e. black
So I am back wanting to see the pedigree posted with the college of arms.
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HI David, the Arms that I have for :
EDLIN , Peter Henry, Esq., 64 Queensborough Terrace, Hyde Park, London, one of Her Majesty's Counsel, Recorder of Bridgewater, and Assistant Judge of the Middlesex Sessions. Arms : Erm. a fesse vair, in chief two arrows saltirewise ppr. ,all within a bordure nebuly sa. Crest : A crescent or, there from rising a falcon ppr. belted and jested gold, each wing charged with a trefoil slipped vert. Motto : Suspice.
reference: Burke's General Armory
I have put together all of the illustrations that have been" accredited " to the name Edlin/Edlyn/Edelin etc will put in the post today.
Kindest regards, John
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Thank you John. I have been trying to get a lead on the other CoA but I can't find anything relevant. I am looking forward to seeing the blazon and any other details for that one.
David
arms:quartered: 1and 4 divided diagonally gold over black; a crook ending in a trefoil, placed diagonally and counterchanged; 2 and 3 silver; a red diagonal band between in top , a black eagle's leg and in base, a black wing turned to the left.
crest: a gold lion issuing and turned to the left, crowned gold.
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Thank you John. I have been trying to get a lead on the other CoA but I can't find anything relevant. I am looking forward to seeing the blazon and any other details for that one.
David
arms:quartered: 1and 4 divided diagonally gold over black; a crook ending in a trefoil, placed diagonally and counterchanged; 2 and 3 silver; a red diagonal band between in top , a black eagle's leg and in base, a black wing turned to the left.
crest: a gold lion issuing and turned to the left, crowned gold.
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Hi David, I have sent the material on Crests etc. Now I will delve into the files for Edlins in Leic. and Mddx. I think that I should list all that I have and email to you, Annetta and Heather. What do you think ?Kindest regards, John
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I'll wait to see what you come up with on your listing John. Mine will be much more difficult as it is all buried amongst the other Edlin details.
I have been looking deeper into the use of a "nebuly" border.
Firstly it is likely to be wavey rather one of the more stylised forms used on a shield.
Secondly it probably means a baseborn son.
If this is the case it seems surprising that a newly created knight would adopt a shield of this form.
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Hi David,
The meaning of nebuly that I came across meant : waved lines to represent clouds;as well as represents the sea or water.
I received from Annette a four page list of a " National Burial report", do you have a copy? If not I will forward to you.
Kindest regards
John
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Hi John,
That picture of nebuly is the one from my reference books and if you go on-line to sites like hereldica there are illustrations which actually extend to what I can only describe as interlocking trees, probably meant to be clouds.
It was the nebuly border which I was having trouble with and as I said I could not explain why a newly Knighted person would want that on their shield where there was an opportunity to have a cleaned up shield.
Yes please to the document from Annette.
David
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Hi David,
You have made a good point with the nebuly, we will have to dig deeper. Would Eddie Geoghegan ( Araltas) know ? .
I will email the lists today.
Kindest regards
John
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I have just spent my head in a pile of Heraldry books in the reference library. Unlike the internet sites they distinguish between a nebuly border and a wavy border. It is the latter which indicated an illegitimate son.
The nebuly border doesn't seem to have any specific meaning in English Heraldry but in Scottish Heraldry it indicates a specific cadency, in this particular case the second grandson in line.
David
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Hi David,
Have come across Bordure ( border) : " It surrounds the field , occupying one - fifth of it, and is of equal breadth at every part. Usually born by those members of a family wanting to distinguish their line from those of a relative" .
( difference between relatives bearing the same arms ).
Swan : the Swan was cognizance of the Bohuns. Sometimes it is borne whole, sometimes only the head, like the arms of the Guests. When gorged with ducal coronet having a gold chain attached to it, it is called a cygney-royal.
kindest regards, John
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I have just realised that I have a shortage of photographs of the Ickenham Edlins. Somewhere in my family there is a photograph of an elderly Fanny Louise Saich nee Edlin but nothing else.
Has anyone else any photographs of the family?
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If you are interested in the links between the Edlin and the Ive families in the Harefield and Ruislip areas see the following link
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,153870.0/topicseen.html
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The London Gazette which is now online from 1772 to 1900 contains a couple of interesting bankruptcies.
Mark Haines Edlin of Cannons farm was in debtors prison in 1861 but seems have eventually been dealt with under the 1868? bankruptcy act applying for discharge in 1868 for which there was a creditors meeting at the George Inn Uxbridge 3 Jul 1876.
Thomas Edlin of Starvells Farm Ruislip also had a creditors meeting 4 Nov 1872 also had a creditors meeting for liquidation of his bankruptcy at the George Inn.
There is also a description of Broadwater Farm in the auction of its freehold 1864. At the time it was leased to William Edlin.
David
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I have recently been looking at the Edlin family in Sussex and I have found two families.
The Brghton family who owned a number of pubs in the early 20th century link back to the Stepney family of the early eighteenth century.
The St Leonards brothers William and Henry who ran the Tivoli Tavern and the Royal Victorian Hotel in the 1830s respectively. I can't link these to anyone. I would welcome any ideas.
David
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William and Henry appear to be the sons of John Edlin born c 1768 at Rickmansworth.
By 1846 William was a florist living at Queens Road Bayswater and died in 1853 at 25 Berkley Street Lambeth. He married Lucy Bramptron and they had six children.
Henry married twice and had four children with his second wife Mary Ann Bye although some of these appear to have been born before their marriage in 1859. No record has been found of the death of his first wife Susan which would have been after 1851. Having run the Bull Hotel in Cambridge he later owned the Railway Refreshment Rooms at Cambridge, Ely and Newmarket until his death in 1860.
David
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I have just realised that I have a shortage of photographs of the Ickenham Edlins. Somewhere in my family there is a photograph of an elderly Fanny Louise Saich nee Edlin but nothing else.
Has anyone else any photographs of the family?
Your post goes back aways, but in case this is of interest, I have a photo of Louisa Edlin (b. 1849 in Ickenham), daughter of Thomas Edlin and Sarah Edwards. She was my great great grandmother and married Thomas Turner, who is also in the photograph.