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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Census and Resource Discussion => Completed Census Requests => Topic started by: epebble on Wednesday 08 February 06 18:57 GMT (UK)
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I wonder if anyone can help? I know for sure that Frederick William Cardell Pengilly is my Great Great Grandfather, his birth was registered in 1861 in the District of Truro in Cornwall and I have a Vol 5c Page 191 reference for this (not sure exactly what this is).
BUT also in that volume and on that page is another birth also registered in Truro for Charles John Harrison Pengilly. Could they in fact be twins?
And if so, why on the census of 1861 is my Great Great Grandfather (at the age of 2 months) living with Jane Richards (where the relationship to her I think is described as nursechild?) and not living with Charles John Harrison Pengilly?
If anyone has any ideas I'd be interested, or if anyone knows if I can confirm whether or not they were twins?
Thank you...
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If you purchase the birth certificate there are two ways you might identify twins.
Firstly the fact may be recorded. Alternatively the time of birth will be recorded in minutes so that it is obvious which is the elder twin.
If these facts aren't available then you can apply for the second child specifying the same parents which means you will only get the birth certificate if they are twins.
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Thank you for your reply. Sorry for being a bit stupid, but I am newto all of this... How would one go about buying birth certificates?
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Hello
I have found the family in 1871 and the 2 boys aged 10 are together with their parents and siblings.
Would you like the details?
Barbara
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Really Barbara F?
That would be absolutely fantastic. If they are in the same household and are the same age - they must be twins!
I would love the details, thank you...
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Hi
All births (and marriages and deaths for the matter) are recorded at both the local register office and at then sent up to the central General Register Office. The latter is the reference that you have. It gives the area and then page number.You can search for them on www.1837online.com which is a paying site, you can get the films to look at at your nearest centre for the Church of Latter Day Saints ( listed on www.familysearch.org) or at the moment they are free to search on www.ancestry.co.uk
When you find a possible birth you can send to the GRO to get the certificate. They cost £7. You can also write to the local office.
Have a look at the links on the beginners board here on rootschat and you should find lots of information to help you.
Andrea
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Th only thing I would add is that the local registry offices tend to be quicker :D, will generally do a negative ( ???see below!) search for free ;D and are on the whole very friendly and helpful! :)
In case it isn't clear (and I'm often not! :-\ :-X) a negative search is one where they can't find what you want!!
If you don't hve the full details the GRO is also more expensive...but sometime that is the only way! :( ;D
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Here you are
Harrowbarrow No 11 Calstock
Charles Pengilly Head 41 Arsenic manufacturer b Cornwall Kenwyn
Jane Wife 39 b Yorkshire Leyburn
Emily S Dau 11 b Scotland
Charles J H Son 10 b Cornwall Kenwyn
Frederick H C Son 10 b Cornwall Kenwyn
Albert E Son 9 b Cornwall Lostwithiel
Florence Annie Dau 1 b Cornwall Calstock
Eliza Collins Servant 15 b Cornwall Calstock
Hope I have all the names and initials correct - the writing was a bit difficult in places! I have tried to get the address from looking at previous census pages - hope it makes sense.
Ref is RG10 2145 f12
Barbara
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Thank you Barbara F, this is all now fitting together rather nicely. Although, I really wasn't aware of any Emily S (although I am wondering if this is in fact J for Emily Jane), I think I have found her death registered in 1874 at 15 years old? I am in the fortunate position of having a rather unusual (well not so unusual in Cornwall) surname which does make all this a little easier.
And also, Andrea, thank you, I have now ordered a number of certficates (Birth, Marriage and Death).
;D
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One explanation for one of the twins being in another household and described as "nursechild" is that the mother was having difficulty feeding both and had one looked after by a wetnurse. Once this babe had been weaned, I guess it could have returned to its natural family, hence both boys being together at the next census.
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Hello again epebble
I took another look at the census for 1871 and yes, Emily could have J as her second initial.
I agree with Corinne about the possible reason for one twin to be with another family, although he may not have had a wet nurse. Perhaps his mother was struggling with looking after 3 babies or one twin was more sickly than the other and needed more care. I suggest you try to find out a bit more about the family Frederick was with - they could be related.
Barbara
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Alternatively the time of birth will be recorded in minutes so that it is obvious which is the elder twin.
The exception?
I have a birth certificate bought from the GRO for 1837. To my surprise, the time of birth is written on it. I got all excited thinking that it was the birth certificate of a twin, but there was no other baby with the same Family name registered in the same District during the same Quarter.
I came to the conclusion that there are exceptions, and around the beginning of registration (1837), variations existed within the local offices regarding how to register the births.
See:
http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/births.htm
I must say, I was a wee bit disappointed....................
UKgirl
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If they are most definitely twins, as I am now convinced they are, I would have to hazard a guess Charles was born first, because he has been named after his father.
UKGirl, I'm not sure, just guessing, but if it is normal to only put times on multiple births could possibly a second child have been still born or something like that?
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Ignore the still born theory UKGirl, I've just read your link to what's actually in the birth certificate. ???
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Hi EPebble.
Apologies for the long delay but I have not been in the country for a few months. Sadly I will be out again for another couple of weeks starting tomorrow - but back to your query. I can confirm twins and if he was your Great Grandfather then we are most definately related as he was mine too! I've got his birth cert here which gives a time of birth (only done in the case of twins). Also details of where he's buried etc.
Regards
Please if you wish contact me through
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