RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada Lookup Request => Canada => Canada Lookup Requests Completed => Topic started by: madridmama on Monday 06 February 06 15:16 GMT (UK)
-
I am trying to find out any information about the half brother and sister of my grandmother (now deceased). They were sent to live with relatives (although they could be British Home Children) in Smith Falls Canada.
GEORGE ALBERT CASTELNOVO B 1901
MILICENT CASTELNOVO ?
Their mother was Sarah Ann Eliza Castelnovo (formerly Long) and their father was Jescard Albert Giacomo Castelnovo - they married Dec 1893.
In the census return 1901, Sarah and baby George (2m) were living at 1a Brewery Lane Islington. Husband Jescard was not listed. He worked in a hotel so he may have stayed there that night. He later died of TB I think, although I cannot find any record of his death anywhere.
Sarah remarried c 1907 to a Robert James Mandeno, my great grandfather and the children were sent to Smith Falls in Canada to live with relatives. I'm not sure if these were relatives of the Castelnovo family or the Long family. One of the problems I have encountered so far is the many different spellings of their surname; Castelnovo, Castlenovo, Castelnova, etc I have even thought Castelnouveau(x) might be a possibility given the Canadian connection.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
-
The Home Children database of passenger lists gives no result likely to be them even to "Cast$"
David
-
Not sure if this is any help, but found this
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
-
Thanks for your time in looking up my query and sending your replies. Mandeno is quite an unusual surname, so it's possible that it could be the same person. The date of birth however looks unlikely as he was born in 1901. Are the census returns for the area for 1911 on line? and is it possible to search under his birthplace (Islington, London). My grandmother gave me the impression her half brothers and sisters were sent out as children. Although I quess that they could have been placed with Barnados or some other institution and sent out to Canada a few years later.
-
Ohh, I found this in 1911, might be them he has a sister Millicent and the parents listed are kindof old to be having children?
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
-
Clayton, Ontario is only about 33 miles or 40 mins north of Smith Falls, Ontario
-
Does the census list the birth place of Millicent and the parents? Also if the children were adopted would there be any records relating to that. Would any later records ie Marriage list their original surname? Thanks for all your help.
-
If you go to http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/1911/index-e.html
and just put in the district, sub-district and find the page you will be able to look at the original itself.
I think it listed them as just born in England, they all came to Canada in 1905. Not sure about adoption papers.
I guess if they kept their new last name, you would have to try and find a marriage/death certificate.
For me, our last name was actually changed to "Stanley" as well. And to this day all Canadian connections are still Stanley, no legal papers were ever done, it was pretty easy to get a new name back then.
Maybe there is a clue through the daughter Dora, I found she has a husband Charles Henry Silson. Do you want that information?
Karen
-
I've had a look on the web site you suggested, but I can't seem to find them. I've been entering Clayton and Ramsay township / Clayton village comes up, is this the right place? I've looked through the records but can't find Stanleys. Am I looking in the right place? If you could find out any info re Daughter Dora that may be useful.
Thanks
-
Here's a death reg. for a George Stanley in Lanark County. The information is a son-in-law Walter Moutou (? hard to read), perhaps that is a husband for Millicent?
Name: George Stanley
Death Date: 26 Dec 1929
Gender: Male
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Birth Location: England
-
Here is a death registration for a baby girl who was only 11 days old. The mother is listed as Millicent Stanley and the place for father says "illigitamate". The informant is listed as George Stanley, grandfather to the deceased.
Name: Lillian Norah Stanley
Death Date: 10 Sep 1924
Gender: Female
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1924
Birth Location: Almonte
-
Hi, if they are my grandmother's half brothers and sisters the story just gets sadder and sadder! Sarah Long's second husband Robert Mandeno (my grandmothers father) made her give away her children from her first marriage, I don't think she ever had any contact with them again.
-
Hi,
Here is the direct link to the 1911 census page if you're still having trouble finding it.
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1911a/e080/e001998589.pdf
George and Emily Stanley, the parents, were also born in England and the whole family arrived in 1905...
MJP
-
Thanks for posting that MJP, I always post it wrong and end up with a huge link!
Do you have thoughts about these people?
Karen
-
Hi again,
This is a tricky one. It would be pretty hard to prove that George and Millicent Stanley are actually George and Millicent Castelnovo, unless you can find a clear link between the Stanleys and the Castelnovos or Longs.
I took a quick look for the Stanley family in the 1901 England census. I only found two George and Emilys, but neither have a daughter names Dora, although one is Dorothy but the birth date is all wrong:
George Stanley born 1858 Wooton Bamt Wilts
Emily born 1861 Wales
With sons John and William, daughter Ellen Richard and son-in-law Robert Richard, living in Stratton St. Margaret, Wilts.
George Stephenson Stanley b. 1864 Huddersfield Yorks
Emily Stanley born 1863 Bradford Yorks
Daughter Dorothy Edra Stanley born 1893 Leeds, living in Holbeck.
Let us know madridmama if there are any other look-ups that might help you solve this! (or if you want full refs for above)
I also tried poking around the Lanark County, Ontario Genweb site, but there doesn't seem to be any mention of this Stanley family. Here's the link:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~onlanark/
MJP
-
Hi guys, thanks again for all your help
As far as I know Sarah Long/Castelnovo/Mandeno family were centered either around the Tiverton area of Devon, or the Islington area of London, so the Yorkshire and Wales connection look unlikely. As the Stanley family were immigrants to Canada would there be any record of their journey on passenger lists?
-
Yes, there are passenger lists available, but not all are on-line. Not knowing where they came to, such as Quebec or Nova Scotia, or even New York State, there will be alot of microfilms to go through, but at least there is a year. ;D
You could check www.ellisisland.org
Why does your grandmother think they were sent to the Smiths Falls area of Ontario? Did they receive some sort of correspondence?
Where is Sarah on the 1901 census? Do you know other family names of Sarah's such as her mother's maiden name?
Karen
-
Sarah was living with her mother Amelia Long (formerly Goddard) in Islington, London England at 1A Brewery Lane. Baby George was 2months old. I think I have found a record for the father's death
George Castlenova (yet another spelling!) died 1903
Islington age 35 (1b 124). As far as I know my grandmother knew her half brothers and sisters had been sent to Smiths Falls in Canada because her mother had told her. I don't have any other information. I'm not sure when Millicent was born as I can't seem to find any record of her birth, It is possible she was born after her father's death and took her mother's maiden name (Long).
-
Hi - regarding passenger lists...
The National Archives has passenger lists starting in about 1865, but only the 1925-1935 period have been indexed and posted online. The rest of the records are still held on microfilm by port in chronological order of ship's arrival.
You can order these films through your local LDS centre or possibly on inter-library loan and view them yourself, but it would be a lot of work to search through every list looking for the name. Even though you have been able to narrow it down to a specific year (1905), there would still be a lot of reels to look through.
If you want more info on the reels and how to order them, go here:
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/genealogy/022-908.003-e.html
Otherwise, you can try your luck online. It may be that someone else has already transcribed that particular ship list and has posted it online. There are a selection of links at the bottom of the collectionscanada page above that lead to volunteer transcription projects of various kinds.
The only other source I can think of right now is to find marriage records for George and/or Millicent. I have taken a quick look on the Ontario Vital Statistics Project, but the coverage for those more recent years is not very good. And George and Millicent are born recent enough that their marriages could be past the public release date. (Ontario marriage records are currently only available to 1924 - another year is released each year.) You may have to wait a while to pursue that trail!
That's all I can think of right now...
Good luck!
MJP
-
madridmama...welcome to rootschat!
The name Milicent is not used that much....you have an estimated date of birth for Milicent. Would the LDS files not reveal if the 1903 birth dates match with those on file for Islington / Holborn? ( within 4 months or so prior...I guess)
Well, even though I had reservations about this family of Stanleys being the ones...
There are 2 Dora Stanleys in the 1901 / England ...one in Northamton, one in Yorkshire. Both with jobs...don't have access so see who is in household. but if one is off living on her own...who knows, I guess...
If that one is missing on the next census it would certainly help the story....
Anyway, speculation can open doors...so at least there isn't any more information to glean in order to go barkin' up the wrong family tree!
-
Here's the marriage information:
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
-
Hello
there is a death registered as follows
Prescott County, Ontario, Joseph Castlenova (indexed as Castlenueva but the actual image is Castlenova I am pretty sure), July 8, 1902, age 9 months, address for both birth and death is Van Kleek Hill (hard to make out), religion R.C. - no listing for parents
I can't find anything else at the moment but will keep mulling it over.
Thelma
-
Many thanks Karen for the marriage information. I will keep a note of it and see what happens.
-
Thelma,
Thanks for the information regarding Joseph Castelnova. He could be a relation of my George Castelnovo, perhaps through his fathers family. I guess any information on his parents would be useful. Would there be any record of his birth 9 months before? Also how far is this place from Smiths Fall? Sorry but my Canadian geography is pretty limited.
-
The distance between VanKleek Hill, Ontario and Smith Falls, Ontario is 108 miles, or a 2 hour drive in todays standards. Ottawa, Ontario is in the middle of the two.
No apologies needed on your geography, most Ontarion's probably don't even know where these places are ;D
Karen
-
Well now that a couple more years of Ontario births, deaths and marriages have been released I thought I would bring this back up.....
found a marriage registration for..
George Arnold Stanley
Occupation: Baker
Age: 22
Bachelor
Place of birth: England
Intended Place of Marriage: Smiths Falls, Ontario
Parents: George Stanley & Emily Wood
Vernal Hazel Plato (?)
Age: 19
Place of Birth: Smiths Falls
Parents: Fredk Plato and Maud Saunders
Date: May 12, 1924 Smiths Falls, Ontario
Reg. No. 013317
Karen
-
George Albert was the name of the lad, though....I remember this, thread....as no births for a Millicent ...plus there was so much missing information in the U.K....births, deaths, etc... ::)
Birth Sept. Q. 1902 Millicent Long / Uxbridge (3a -54)
-
Bit of a timeline, but nothing helps, I'm afraid....
c. 1871 Giocomo/ Holborn ( also some evidence of siblings Pietro, Francesco ( d. age 3), Francesca, Antonia)
Marriage 1893 of Jescard Albert G Castelnovo & Sarah Minnie Long / Islington
Births March Q. 1901 George Albert Castelnovo / Holborn dist.
Millicent b. ?
Death of father?
Next marriage of GGrandmother ?
and several births for Castelnova /Islington / but some down as Castelnous in the 1901 census Islington...the father is not home in this household either...Perhaps Pietro...
Francesca- may be a sister was born c.1859 Italy & married Giacomo Ciceri (BMD & 1881)....so we might look for this surname as well....?
Marriage for Antonia not complete - missing 2 males on page so no help if that is our surname...(unless it's Antonio)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
also will add that in 1891 they are Castelnoro and the forenames are watered down to George, Tenny, Tim & father John...
-
Now, for the Stanley family...
Sept. Q. 1886 Stanley Dora Dewsbury 9b 652
June Q . Dewbury (W.Yorks)...1882 marriage for George Stanley & Emily Wood
I was actually hoping I wouldn't find it, as the theory was so feasible...
but now that more births have been added
Dec. Q 1901
George Arnold STANLEY Dewsbury / 9b 635
Dec. Q 1903
Millicent Stanley Dewsbury / 9b 628
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry, Karen after all your sleuthing...but now back to the drawing board and where are they....
Misstranscriptions have plagued this search U.K....but I am not sure what else to try....who knows what the surname may be.... ::) :P :-\
-
Well at least you proved that theory wrong then JJ.....hmm, maybe madridmamma has some new info???
Karen
-
Hi guys - long time no Rootschat!
Just found this - thought you might want to know. Did we not check here before???
Home Children Passenger Records
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/archivianet/home-children/001015-100.01-e.php
Millicent Castlelove
Age 9
Arrived at Montreal on the Victorian 6 Oct 1911
Enter the ship and arrival info here to see the original image.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/archivianet/passenger/001045-100.01-e.php (She's on page 27)
According to the passenger list this group of children was bound for Ottawa. (They were also travelling with a Welsh men's choir going on a Canadian tour and the Duke of Connaught's household staff!)
No sign of George though...
MJP
-
From the same database:
George Castlenova
Age 10
Arrived at Quebec on the Lake Manitoba 12 September 1911
Destination: Wellington Ontario
Not to the same place - how sad!!
Enter the arrival and ship info at the passenger list site (above)
He is on page 35.
This means they both missed the 1911 census - that complicates matters, doesn't it!!
MJP
-
Hey MJP!! It has been a while :)
Great work on Milicent.
Karen
-
I thought we did :-\ but I don't know about you, but I have found that alot of sites have been updated lately including LAC. Guess they were getting prepared for the WDYTYA show :) I could have sworn I had checked for someday on a site, then this past weekend I'm finding all kids of new people :)
Karen
-
absolutely we did check and I even checked again before my last posting, ...
Good one MJP! Guess we have to keep on looking for updates constantly. J.J.
-
Hi guys!
Thanks for helping me in my quest to find out more about Millicent and George. No new information on these two - but I have tried looking at the passenger lists you mentioned in previous posts- can't seem to find the actual images to view. How sad if they were sent to separate places. 1911 England census still isn't available to view, I wonder if they would have missed this? How long was the crossing in those days? Did anyone ever find any history of the Ciceri link travelling to Canada? It did cross my mind that they may have been adopted by a sister of Jescard Castelnova.
Sent a picture of My grandmother Dorothy Mandeno (George and Millicent's half sister) on her wedding day July 1928
-
What a great and happy photo! ;D J.J.
p.s. I'll peek art the ship's list and post a link here in this same posting when I find it... J.J.
http://tinyurl.com/28kxt8 Millicent on page 27
Says destination Ottawa...Sent to Canada under the auspices of the Catholic Emigration Society
George on page 35, part of Miss Joyce's party.... http://tinyurl.com/yv54bf
-
Hello there!
Four years on and I am still looking for any information on Millicent and George Albert Castelnovo once they arrived in Canada.
I've managed to locate them (living separately and in orphanages) in the England 1911 census. George is at the Saint Joseph's Home, Holtwhite's Hill, Enfield. Run by the Sisters of Charity of St Vincent de Paul.
In 1903 The Catholic Emigration Association was formed. It conducted the emigration of all Catholic Children of 18 years and under from the British Isles to Canada. George sailed on the "Lake Manitoba" - Canadian Pacific Railway Company - arrived Quebec 09 1911 and Montreal 12 09 1911 - part of Mrs Joyce's party. Apparently bound for Wellington, Ontario.
Millicent in 1911 is living at St Vincent Orphanage for Girls (also run by nuns.) Berrington Street, Hereford, England.
Millicent Castlelove Age 9. Arrived at Montreal on the Victorian 6 Oct 1911.
Any updates or advice on where to look next?
Thanks.
-
So sad that they were separated at such a young age.
The Canada 1921 census is due to be released in 2013 so perhaps that may shed some light on their whereabouts.
If the Wellington, ON that George was going to was Wellington County it might be worth contacting the Wellington Museum at this link to inquire whether there is any info about where a group of boys from England would have been sent in 1911. I undersatand that the Vimy Ridge Training Farm in Guelph, Wellington County was only established after WW1 (you can do a search for threads about it on RootsChat to learn more) so I don't think that was a option at the time, but perhaps there was a similar place.
http://www.museevirtuel-virtualmuseum.ca/GetMuseumProfile.do?lang=en&chinCode=guwcmt1
Have you tried tracing info through the Catholic Emigration Association/Society?
Also, have you tried to trace records for the St George's Home in Ottawa where Millicent may have first been sent?
In case you haven't seen this .... I think I have seen a contact address for records but can't seem to find it at the moment ... I'll look further.
http://canadianbritishhomechildren.weebly.com/st-georges-home---ottawa.html
PB
Added: here is the website with contact addresses ... there are a number to sort through after you click on 'addresses' near the bottom.
http://jubilation.uwaterloo.ca/~marj/genealogy/children/Organizations/catholic.html
-
Hi there
Well, I had a strange but sad breakthrough last night...decided to google George Castelnova as I constantly do and was redirected to the following records on Ancestry. After all this time, I think I have definitely found my George but so so sad to think he died so young. My grandmother his half sister was 15 or16 at the time. The writing on the document isn't particularly clear but I have tried to decipher it as best I can.
Quebec Vital and Church Records (Druid Collection) 1621 - 1967
Buckingham St Gregoire de Nazaine
"On the fifteeth day of May one thousand nine hundred and twenty two, us the undersigned present have officiated in the funeral service of George Castelnova an orphan from St George's Home Ottawa who died in this parish on the thirteeth instead (?) at the age of twenty one years. Were present at the burial Urban Baker and Desmond Baker who signed with us.
The document is signed by Aol Read (?)
Urban Baker and Desmond Baker
(The name at the top of the document appears to read Emile Fandry)
So now I have a whole load of new questions....Did George marry before he died?..unlikely as no relatives appear to have attended the funeral..just the Baker brothers or possibly father and son Urban and Desmond. Who were they? Friends or maybe his employers? What was he doing in Buckingham now part of Gatineau? I have gleaned from Wikipedia that it was a centre for the lumber industry so he could have been working there in that field of work. Did he die of natural causes or could it have been a work related accident? How can I obtain his death certificate? Can I trace him on the 1921 census?
Still no sign of Millicent his sister. Interestingly Buckingham is only 87 KM away from Smiths Falls....an hour's drive today but still not prohibitive in 1922.
As always any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
-
Going back to the 1911 census, there are a Desmond and Urban, brothers...Father Fred's occupation a farmer...Wondering if perhaps he may have been sent to help on the farm... altho Fred already had many sons to help out... The three lads may have been employed together elsewhere a decade later.
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=110983
See Urban married Ottawa Ontario: Urban Frederick Baker/ Agnes Muriel Dunnigan
but don't have access to see when it took place...
Ah, see it must have been later, as Urban's wife is living with Desmond & wife in U.S. 1930 census https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X796-7WF
-
I have to admit I am not familiar enough with the 1921 or the Labelle area to see where they might be in the census, as I don't see Buckingham on the list .... Saint Gregoire de Naziance cemetery is listed as Papineau County...so best to let an experienced Quebec researcher find the information for you, or point out which area to look into ( ;) that would be you, P.B. ? ;D)
http://search.ancestry.ca/search/db.aspx?dbid=8991
-
Thanks JJ for your help. I also tried to have a look at the 1921 census but couldn't find Papineau on the list and have no idea where to look for Buckingham. Guess I need some help in that area...maybe P.B? :)
-
Hello folks.
You will find Buckingham under the district of Hull in the 1921 census.
Buckingham is currently part of the greater municipality of Gatineau, which also includes Hull and several other area towns. Amalgamation took place about 10 years ago.
Happy hunting :)
PB
-
Thanks PB I'll have a look for Hull....another English place name alongside Buckingham...!