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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dunbartonshire => Topic started by: ron_dem on Monday 06 February 06 00:19 GMT (UK)
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I am researching for a friend, his paternal line is Armstrong and there was a large family lived there for a for at least two generations, in Knightswood. The oldest I have is Mathew Armstrong b. 1819 Govan and m. 1840 New Kilpatrick to Ann McArthur. Any descendents out there?
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Hi Ron_Dem.
Just registered here a few minutes ago. Yes, my great great great grandfather was Matthew Armstrong, married to Ann McArthur. Yes there was a large amount of Armstrong families living in the Kilpatrick
area. From what I know, most were in some form or another, related from further back.
If you wish to know any more, drop me a line.
Best regards,
Richard
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Hi Siward; My friend's is a descendant fo James Armstrong b. 1842 married to Agnes Moore and then from his son James b. 1876 m to Janet Forrest. Can you tell anthing about the original James father to Mathew b. 1819 ?
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Hi Ron,
Good to hear from you. Well Matthew Armstrong b. 1819
was one of the sons of James Armstrong and Elizabeth Liddle.
James and Elizabeth were married in Glasgow in 1810,
his occupation is listed as a soldier, the regiment number
is hard to work out due to the handwriting.
James and Elizabeth had 5 sons James, John, Matthew,
Matthew and Hugh. Sadly the first Matthew died in infancy
and the second was born in 1819.
I have details on the Liddle side of the family, but sadly
information comes to an end with James, since I cannot find
any record of his death certificate.
I hope you have better luck :)
Regards,
Richard
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Hi Richard:
I didn't know James sr. was soldier. I had listed as carter as told on Mathew's death cert in 1897. Did James sr. and Elizabeth Liddle stay in the Govan area or were they in New Kilpatrick also? I don't see where we can send private messages on this board so can you e mail me at (*) There's much I wish to discuss maybe between the tow of us we can make some inroads
cheers
Ron in Canada
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Hi there wondering if you can help me have just recieved an extract of my husbands grandmother Christina Thompson and found that her mother was agnes armstrong and robert thompson, agnes parents were james armstrong and mary mcneil i think which then takes us back to matthew armstrong who was married to ann mcarthur, I am wondering if you have any more information that may be helpful to me. Thanks
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I can't see any connection, Mathew Armstrong and Ann McArthur had a son James m. AgNes Moore, they had a son James m. Janet Forrest. Do you have some dates for your Armstrongs?
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Agnes Armstrong married Robert Thompson June 5th 1895
She was 24 he was 26
Agnes Father and Mother were James Armstrong 24 and Mary Armstrong 20 they were married 15th July 1864
Mary's father was Matthew Armstrong a miner and Ann Mcarthur
James father was James Armstrong born 20 Nov 1815 he Isabella King married.
I don't know if this wil help at all
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Ah, thast clears it up, your common ancestor is Mathew and Ann, him through James b. 1842 and your Mary McLae Armstrong born 1844. (MacLae or MacLay was the surname of Ann McArthur's mother.)
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Hi Wiff96 amd Rondem,
Now that is intresting, since I only have 10 children listed, born to
James Armstrong and Mary Armstrong.
Wiff96, do you have the date of birth for Agnes Armstrong.
Best regards,
Richard
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Sorry i don't have exact date but her marriage certificate which is from 1895 states that she was 24 so that would make her birth year 1871. Hope that helps
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I spent a credit on Scotlands People and there were 10 Agnes Armstrongs listed between 1870 and 1872 and none in New Kilpatrick. By the way Siward, what can you tell us about the Liddles?
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Hi Wiff96 and RonDem,
From my own family tree, the only child born to the marriage of James Armstrong and Mary Armstrong during this time frame, was Anne McArthur Armstrong in 1871.
The mystery deepens...
Ah... The Liddles... ;D
Elizabeth Liddle married my Great Great Great Great Grandfather, James
Armstrong m.1810 Glasgow. Had a specialist in handwriting have a look
at this marriage cert. turns out occupation Soldier 94th Regiment. This OPR
record holds no more clues, no name of father or age, hits end of the line,
me thinks :(
Anyway have been comparing notes and document on the Liddle side.
Elizabeth was born to parents Matthew Liddle and Janet Lawrie, married
in Glasgow in 1777.
Elizabeth had 5 brothers and sisters.
Margaret Liddle b. 1785
Isabel Liddle b. 1787
Matthew Liddle b. 1789
Janet Liddle b. 1792
John Liddle b. 1796
Now, Elizabeths middle name was Sweetman.
This turns out to be the maiden name of her grandmother, called Margaret Sweetman, who married Charles Laurie.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Richard
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Siward: I had ther same synopsis for the Liddles, glad that you have concurred. I had a military ancestor on my own line and I hired an researcher at the PRO (the only way other than being there in person to get the information). My ancestor was listed as Chelsea Pensioner on the 1851 census and so must have had a long enough career to get a pension. However, since you have the regiment it may more information on him. Mine told me where he served under who etc. I have the sneaking suspicion that James was from Ulster, nothing to substaniate it but just a gut feeling.
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Ron,
Always thought there might be some connection with Ireland, since there
seems nothing much to go on in ScotlandsPeople. Found this little article
that narrows down some information.
As James is listed as a soldier when married in 1810, the only possible
regiment is possibly this one.
94th (Scots Brigade) Regiment of Foot 1802–1818
And from the article below..
"Reduced to 130 men, the regiment came home in April 1808, and was sent to Scotland to recruit"
"After serving at Cape Town in 1797-8, the Scotch Brigade went on to India with General Baird, and fought at Malavelly and the storming and capture of Seringapatam in 1799. It was employed under Colonels Stevenson and Wellesley against Dhoondiah Waugh and other free-booters in 1800. In 1803 the regiment was formally numbered as the 94th Regiment of Foot. It went through much arduous service in the campaigns of 1803-5 under Sir Arthur Wellesley, but was not present at the Battle of Assaye. The Indian services of the regiment were recognised by "Seringapatam" being inscribed on the colours, and the grant of the "Elephant", now one of the badges of the Connaught Rangers. It is distinguishable from other like badges by the purple-and-gold housings of the castle-less elephant. Reduced to 130 men, the regiment came home in April 1808, and was sent to Scotland to recruit. It was included among the regiments that were directed in an order of the following year to discontinue the use of Scottish clothing.
After serving in Jersey, the 94th went to Lisbon and from there to Cadiz, and was distinguished at the sanguinary defence of Fort Matagorda in 1810. It left Cadiz for Portugal before Graham's victory at Barossa. Joining Lord Wellington's army in the lines of Torres Vedras, the 94th made the subsequent campaigns with Picton's Division, where, side by side with the 88th (later 1st Connaught Rangers) and the 5th Foot, it won fresh laurels at Ciudad Rodrio, Badajos, Salamanca, Vittoria, the battles on the Nivelle, at Orthes and Toulouse.
When the troops withdrew from the South of France, after the peace of 1814, the 94th went to Ireland, where it was stationed during the Waterloo Campaign, and where it was disbanded on 24th December 1818. The old colours were originally lodged in Edinburgh Castle, and are now in St. Giles's Cathedral, Edinburgh. The regimental colour is dark green - the regimental facings had been changed from yellow to green - and bears the Scottish thistle on a crimson centre surmounted by the Crown together with the Elephant badge and Seringapatam and Peninsula honours, which descended to its successor."
Source:
http://www.waterfordcountymuseum.org/exhibit/web/Display/article/31/3/
And they come back to Glasgow in 1823...
"
The 94th Foot, now The 2nd Battalion Connaught Rangers
In December 1823, the 94th Regiment of Foot was again revived. The recruiting rendezvous was at Glasgow, and the officers were taken chiefly from the half-pay list of the old 94th Scotch Brigade. The new battalion embarked for Gibraltar soon after its formation, and there received its first colours. It served at Gibraltar and Malta until 1834, when it returned home. In 1838 it embarked for Ceylon to relieve the 58th Regiment, but was transferred to Madras the year after, and served in that Presidency for fifteen years, during which time it had some sharp work with the Moplah fanatics in 1849.
"
Looks like I might share a connection with Neil Armstrong after all ;)
Best regards,
Richard
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Wonderful stuff Siward. His military career at the start of their marriage may explain the five year difference between James and Elizabeth's eldest son also named James 1811 and their next John 1815.
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Hi Ron,
Yes, that's what I was suspecting. The big piece of the jigsaw is James
Armstrong (m.1810) death certificate, been trying for a long time to locate
this. Always thought being in the army, that it might be overseas, though
on Elizabeth Armstrong(Liddle) death certificate its lists James Armstrong,
occupation coal miner. The only thing I can think of was his early life
was as a soldier, than survived came home and worked in the mining.
Strange thing is, I cannot find Elizabeth on the 1841 census. The mystery
deepens.
I've actually got another thought about the birth place of James. There
is a christening registered in Airth, Stirlingshire on the 24th Feb 1782.
Slim possibility
This could place James around 28 to 30 when he got married. The annoying thing about the OPR record , it does not give his age when married, no clue.
From what I know of Airth, which have visted several times in the past, several other sections of my family tree are from this area and it was very popular in mining, right through the entire 18th century. Since most of another part of my family working in mining.
Anyway, will have to go off and have think.
Best regards,
Richard
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I haven't been on here for a while but, among other things, I'm researching my sister-in-laws tree and James Armstrong and Elizabeth Sweepman Liddle were her 3X great grandparents. Through their second son John.
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Matthew Armstrong and Ann McArthur are my 3x great grandparents through their son Robert. If anyone is looking for more info - let me know and I'll see if I can help
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Hi Oramazda and Back2front,
I'm descended from James Armstrong, first son of James Armstrong and Elizabeth Liddle.
If I can help with any information, please get in touch.
Best wishes,
Richard