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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: deb usa on Wednesday 01 February 06 19:19 GMT (UK)
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hi, i am the gr.grandaughter of william penfold (a travelling pedlar) and his wife bessie penfold(nee palmer). they had approx.17 children one of them being my nan- veeny violet. her brother's and sister's mames were......
thomas, john, christopher, walter, nelson, jack, billy, sophie,christobel(who died really young) to name a few.
they all lived in th kenwyn and truro areas.
i have seen previous correspondence by "frosty"..... her husband and i are most probably related as we have the same gr. grandparents.
would love to hear from anyone who has info...especially frosty
thanks
deb usa
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Deb
You did not mention the period you would be looking at for your ancestor's parents. Did you know that the many census for Cornwall are on line, FREE Cen. including the 1841.
The LDS also list many baptismal records and marriages.
Sorry I cannot help you, but I hope the censuses help you trace your family.
Pat
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pat
thanks for responding. the penfold family are hard to trace but i have not yet come across a 1841 census. i am thinking that if william and bessie were in their 20's during the 1901 census that i would have to be looking thru info anywhere from the 1881 census and prior. i have spent, it feels like thousands of hours, scrolling thru the 1881,1891 etc census looking solely for penfolds born in st austell (where they were married), truro, or anywhere in cornwall. i am at a LOSS and feel wiped out.... talk about being dramatic..:) ....
i am also hoping to hear from any of my nan's (veeny violet) siblings... most lived in truro, devon and mevagissey.
thanks once again keep in touch and i will keep following up....
deb
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Hello, Deb,
I'm afraid I will not be much help to you, either, as where the right family of Penfolds could have been in the earlier censuses is anyones guess, with them being travellers! I have had no definite leads so far, other than that William and Bessie were both born in Cornwall.
The earliest definite link I have is William and Bessie in the 1901 census. My husband's great grandmother was SOPHIE, their daughter born in 1902. She ended up in Mevagissey, where we live now, married to a fisherman William BARRON. They had a son ROBERT THOMAS, who is my husband's grandfather. He had a daughter, JEAN, who is my husband's mother.
Sophie lived long enough to see our daughter, Amy, born, and we took photos of the five generations, all living in Mevagissey!
I feel for you, because I know how difficult it is to pin down travelling pedlars in the censuses, but maybe one of us will find something definite somewhere. If I find anything, I will let you know,
Best wishes
Frosty
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Marriage -
William Penfold March 1898 Falmouth Vol 5c Page 250
Brides - Bessie Elizabeth Palmer or Mary Jane Ralph
1891?
RG12/1830 Folio 42 Page 15
Kenwyn, Cornwall
John Palmer 32 Labourer
Mary 32
Bessie 14
Minnie? 12
John 7
All born Truro, Cornwall
If this is the right one, Ill look for the Penfolds now (although details off the marriage cert would help with his fathers name).....
Regards
Catherine :)
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dear frosty
I am so excited to hear from you!
i often used to come down to mevagissey to stay with my aunty soph and uncle will. my grandmother, Veeny Violet, was Sophie' sister. Veeny had my mum, Maureen, she would be Robert's first cousin and remebers him and Nonie well..
my mum and dad(Ray middleton) actually spent their honeymoon in mevagissey and stayed with Sophie.my mother also remembers Jean being an absolutely beautiful girl!!!! :) my mum has old pictures of all the family aswell... maybe we can chat privately somehow... altho i have no idea on how to get your email address.
some other news is .... that i made my mum phone the registry office in falmouth (where William and Bessie where married)... the person was very helpful and has managed to locate their marriage cert. this should have william's fathers signature or name on it.... we are keeping our fingers crossed...she should get it next week !!!!!
please stay in touch take care
deb
ps i typed an email earlier and it seems to have gone off into limbo-land. i hope it doesn't turn up and make me look like i am repeating myself.:)
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catherine
thanks so much for responding. you have all the right details .
in actual fact i have just spoken to my mum who has spoken to the registry office in falmouth( area where they were actually married) and using all the info i gave them, has managed to locate the marriage cert.
she will receive it next week.......we are all keeping our fingers crossed hoping that William 's fathers name or signature will be on it!!!!
thanks for helping out.
regards
deb
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I've just been browsing for Penfolds and this caught my eye -
Enumerated as "Penfull" -
1891 RG12/1822 Folio 114 Page 14
Lived in tents, St Austell, Cornwall
Thomas 50 Hawker
Soffia 45
William 20 son Hawker
Defiance! 19 daughter
John 17 son Hawker
Christona.....? 16 daughter
Christopher 14 son
Edward 12 son
Soffia 10 dau
Nelson 8 son
Eliza 6 dau
Harriett 4 dau
Missia? 1 dau
Selina? 3mths dau
Birthplace difficult to read - looks like "Hampton M......" (next to Thomas's name, nothing for the others)
I guess the marriage cert will confirm if this could be the right family......
Regards
Catherine
(love the daughters name!) :)
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cat
YOU ARE FABULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!! i have to call my mum immediately.is there any other info on thomas and soffia . where do i go from here?
i would kiss you if i could
deb x
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:)
Am trying to find anything else out about this family and came across this -
Death -
Defiance Penfold Age 0 June 1873 Penzance Vol 5c Page 186 (which has baffled me because the Defiance Penfold on the 1891 census would have been born c.1872!)
Birth - (matches 1891 census)
Nelson Penfold March 1883 St Columb Vol 5c Page 93
Will see if I can find anymore on the censuses....
Catherine
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you are great...have to go out but will be back. thanks thanks thanks
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Just found this marriage (I ran into the Orchard family earlier because I think they also were travellers/hawkers and the name Defiance was in this family too)
Thomas Penfold June 1866 South Molton Devon Vol 5b Page 833
Brides - Sophia Orchard or Mary A Foxford
Regards
Catherine
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would there still be record available for copying , do you think?
deb
ps why would there be 2 names as far as the brides go?
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On most of the pages I've come across there are two grooms and two brides per page, although sometimes theres been more (8 for example,). Sometimes only one name is listed if the others are illegible. The certificates can be ordered from -
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificate/index.asp#0
(£7 for UK, not sure about overseas)
Will let you know if I find anything else
Good Luck
Catherine :)
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Dear Deb
I see what you mean I just did a quick surname search on the Cornwall Census, 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, and 1891 looking for Penfold's, Pinfold, Penfield etc. nothing in Cornwall as far as I can see.
I see one of the references Catherine found was in Devon, so perhaps it is Devon that they came from. I am sure the marriage certificate will help put you on the right track and then the 1901. I know you can browse the birth references on Ancestry as well as FreeBDM for those later years.
Good luck you will track them down I feel sure.
Kind regards,
Pat
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Good work, everyone!
I had almost given up looking for the Penfolds pre-William and Bessie. Amazing that you are gradually pinning more and more down!
There are an awful lot of Penfolds from Sussex on the FamilySearch site - perhaps that's where they came from originally - who knows?
Great to hear about your family knowing Sophie and 'Wilf' as he was known, and Jean!
I think if you send me a 'message' on this site, then we can swap email addresses if you like.
Happy hunting,
Frosty
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I've been trying to trace those found on the 1891 census - this could be Harriett? -
1901 RG13/1664 Folio 101 Page 14
Hackney Union Training School, Brentwood, Essex
Harriett Penfold 14 Inmate School Child (no place of birth listed)
See
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/Hackney/Hackney.shtml
for info on Hackney Training Schools including a case of cruelty reported in the papers in 1893
Regards
Catherine
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Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
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Hi Deb
I saw your messages, and references to Jean Barron from Mevagissey. I lived in Meva until I was about 8yrs, and remember Jean was one of my best friends, and even had a sleepover at her house one time (something not done so much back then). My name is Gill Hanson but was Holness back then. I was just wondering where Jean is now, and how she is. I have moved back to St Austell after travelling around with my soldier husband. I am sure there is a photo of Jean and myself playing in the field behind my house, I'll have to see if I can dig it out. Anyway, just wanted to say Hi. I have a tree on Ancestry, and would love to have a go at sorting out any of your mysteries if you havn't progressed since your posts on William Penfold etc. Let me know if I can be of any help. Best wishes, Gill :)
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Hi Gill!
Don't know exactly when you posted this, but have not used this site for several years now - great to hear from you though!
My mum in law Jean & husband Les Hunkin are still living in Meva - they have four children (the last adopted, after they fostered her as a baby) - they spent years fostering, and they still foster a 'son' with Downs syndrome aged 28! They love camper vanning around Europe when they can (Jean has the Penfold traveler in her blood)! I'm sure she'll be happy to hear about you!
Best regards
Frosty