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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Moray (Elginshire) => Topic started by: Crowhunt on Friday 27 January 06 20:52 GMT (UK)
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Hello to ALL!
Does anyone live or go near 185 High Street, Elgin?
Could someone give me a description of what the building is like now or post a picture.
I had ancestors who lived and died at that address and I am curious on what the building is now and can/do people still live there?
Thanks!
Valerie
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Hi Valerie
Not in area now, but believe there was a charity shop about that number, maybe Cancer Research.
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Hello
Will check it out fo you.
Heather
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Thanks!
:D
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Hello
175 High Street was down the close and the Northern Scot newspaper had the front shop and flats upstairs. going to the library to find out more.
Heather
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Heather,
I am interested in 185 High Street.
Thanks!
Valerie
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I have a family with 8 children, 7 of whom were born in 185 High Street, Elgin. I have not identified the building, but it is probably a block of flats because the address on some of the birth certificates is 185g High Street. It will be like the rest of that part of the High Street, two storeys plus an attic, stone-built houses, not detached but effectively terraced.
HTH
Forfarian
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:)Thanks for the reply.
So who was the family that you have living there and at what time did they live there?
I had two families that lived there at one point. As far as I can tell, my Crow family lived there from about 1850 until 1876 and the MacLean's stayed on until 1885. I don't know if any of the children from the MacLean's stayed on after that date, I haven't gotten that far on my research.
You wouldn't by chance know how big the flats were, like how many rooms or was it just one big open space?
Valerie
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So who was the family that you have living there and at what time did they live there?
They were one of my Burgess families and the children were born there between 1919 and 1930.
You wouldn't by chance know how big the flats were, like how many rooms or was it just one big open space?
It has since occurred to me that they were probably not flats, in fact.
The central street layout of Elgin is mediaeval, that is, the street widens in the middle to accommodate the kirk and market, and on either side of the street there are lots of narrow lanes (closes) at right angles to the High Street, many lined with houses. On reflection it is more likely that 185 is a close, and that there were several houses in the close, all numbered 185, with a letter to distinguish them.
The post code of 185 High Street is IV30 1DW. I searched for this on www.findpeoplefree.co.uk and it produced a listing with one business at 185, one at 185c and one at 185g High Street; the one at 185 is the Imperial Cancer Research Fund, which has the High Street frontage. The other two will be down the close behind.
And no, the house or flat would not have been just one open space - there would have been separate rooms.
HTH
Forfarian
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Thanks for the information!
So if I understand this right........185 High St. was a two story house, way back when, and there were other houses behind it?
That's interesting.
Do you know how many?
So, it sounds like to me, being from the U.S., they are "row" homes but set the other direction.
So then, somewhere in time, the front house, was converted into a business. As were the ones behind it.
Ok, so is the second floor of the house is used by the business or is it an apartment where people can live?
Thanks ever so much for your time!
This is all very interesting, since I have never been to Scotland.
Thanks again!
Valerie
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So if I understand this right........185 High St. was a two story house, way back when, and there were other houses behind it?
Still is. I will have to go and have a look at it but that's what I reckon. Two storeys plus an attic, and in a row at right angles to the north of the High Street.
Do you know how many?
Not offhand.
So, it sounds like to me, being from the U.S., they are "row" homes but set the other direction.
I don't recognise the term "row homes" but probably it means the same as what we would call 'terraced housing'
So then, somewhere in time, the front house, was converted into a business. As were the ones behind it.
They may very well have been businesses from the start. It was customary for a businessman and his family to live on the premises, especially if there were two or more storeys - he would run the business on the ground floor and live in the upper floors(s)
Ok, so is the second floor of the house is used by the business or is it an apartment where people can live?
See above. But be a bit careful about the terms 'first floor' and 'second floor' etc. In Britain, the first floor is one flight of stairs up from the ground floor. I believe that in the US, the first floor is the one at ground level and up one flight of stairs is the second floor.
Thanks ever so much for your time!
This is all very interesting, since I have never been to Scotland.
You might like to have a look on http://www.moray.gov.uk/LocalHeritage/Assets/html_pages/morayheritage.html
HTH
Forfarian
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I've just been out for a curry in the tandoori restaurant almost opposite 185 High Street, and we walked down the close beside no 185 afterwards.
The High Street frontage is indeed the cancer charity shop, and the sides of the close are more or less blank graffiti-decorated walls now apart from a ramp* going up to the first floor above the shop, an anonymous and very shabby door beyond that, and a pub (with '2003' carved in the concrete above the door) built across the outer (northern) part of the close so the close has to make a dog-leg into the next one to the west, in which there is one door with number 187 on it. The buildings are still of a height to make two storeys plus an attic, but it doesn't look like anywhere anyone would want to live now. It could just about do as a set for a night scene in a low-budget gangster film.
*I suspect that this ramp might have been the fire escape from the offices of the Northern Scot newspaper, which has since moved to new premises elsewhere. But I'm not totally sure about this.
Forfarian
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Thanks again for your time!
Funny how words and terms are so different from the UK & US!
Like "Curry", I take it is some sort of food or maybe a drink.
And the term "dog-leg", which I am guessing is a turn to the left.
And then "Row homes" and "Terraced homes"...... a "row home" is a row of narrow homes three or more built side by side without any space in between all facing the street. There is usually an alley (close) that is in between each group of homes. They are long and narrow and have a small yard in the back of each home with a small street, sometimes. They are not the safest homes to live in, because if one home gets a fire, it tends to spread to the next home, and of course the middle homes don't have any side windows, just front and back.
Well, anyway, thanks for the information.
I hope I didn't take you out of your way or put you in harm's way for the evening.
Thanks again!
Valerie
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Though we're not really on topic anymore I thought I would add that in Sydney, Australia they'd be called "terraces" or "terrace houses". I've never heard of "row homes" here. We also have "semis" which are semi-detached homes with one common wall.
I watch enough British TV to know that a "curry" is Indian food either at the restaurant or "takeaway". I haven't heard anyone use that term here though but could be wrong. In my family we'd just say "let's do Indian tonight" or some such.
We have "dog-legs" in streets and I they can go either way as far as I am concerned - not just left. And we have "hairpins" which are streets which double back on themselves - generally in the mountains.
A "close" for us is generally a residential street in the suburbs which doesn't go anywhere but which is surrounded by homes or other buildings.
And we follow the British tradition of ground floor, first floor, second and so on.
But after all we were a "pommy" colony so you'd hope that we'd still understand some of the "lingo".
Kath ;)
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Yes, all my fault for getting off topic. Forgive me, I was just caught up in the difference of words.
Anyhow.......
I was just amazed on how long my ancestors lived in one house and thus the start of this topic. I have had quite a few very nice people who have helped me "see" what High street looks like and I am grateful to everyone.
If anyone finds out any further information about the building, I am "all ears"! ;D
This has really been interesting!
Valerie
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Funny how words and terms are so different from the UK & US!
It is said that the UK and US are two countries divided by a common language!
Like "Curry", I take it is some sort of food or maybe a drink.
It is an 'Indian' meal - there are many 'Indian' restaurants in the UK, albeit most of them are in fact run by Pakistani or Bangladeshi people.
And the term "dog-leg", which I am guessing is a turn to the left.
No, a dog-leg can go in either direction.
And then "Row homes" and "Terraced homes"...... a "row home" is a row of narrow homes three or more built side by side without any space in between all facing the street. There is usually an alley (close) that is in between each group of homes. They are long and narrow and have a small yard
There's another different word. Here, a yard is always paved or tarred. What is called a yard in the US is usually called a garden here.
in the back of each home with a small street, sometimes. They are not the safest homes to live in, because if one home gets a fire, it tends to spread to the next home, and of course the middle homes don't have any side windows, just front and back.
Yes, that's much the same. In cities there are often whole streets of terraced houses. Sometimes the whole terrace is designed as a unified whole - there are examples of this in the New Town of Edinburgh.
Well, anyway, thanks for the information.
I hope I didn't take you out of your way
No, we go there most Mondays anyway
or put you in harm's way for the evening.
Harm? Good grief, no, not at all. It can get a bit rowdy with drunks in Elgin High Street on a Friday or Saturday evening, but the chance of two people coming to harm on a winter Monday evening is so negligible that I wouldn't give it a thought!
Forfarian
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:) Thanks all just the same!
Have a nice Valentine's Day! (If you have that in Scotland)
Valerie
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Yes, we do. Thank you.
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I too have an interest in the High Street, I have a Mary Henderson born at no. 37 in 1880, is it still there?
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Just found your query about 185 High Street in Elgin. I can tell you that at one time it was called City Arms Close and was located on the North side of High Street. I quote from a book by Bruce Bishop , The Closes of Elgin. "No's 185,187 , Orginally two separate closes, redeveloped in the 19th century, comprising mainly 19th century terraced houses some with of which have outside end stairs. 7 families listed on the 1881 census. Evidence of an arched pend at No.185."
I was interested in locating No. 156 High Street where the Younie family had an Inn in the 1800's. This little book has provided a lot of information about the Closes' and the people who lived in Elgin. It is available from the NE Family History Society in Aberdeen.
P.Younie
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Younie,
Thanks for replying, any tid bit of information is very nice.
So the book states that there was a redevelopment in the 19th century and 185 WAS on the north side?
Do you know of a way to find about what year the street was changed?
Hey, by chance you don't happen to know what the names of the 7 familes are that are listed on the census?
Thanks for your time!
Valerie
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I too have an interest in the High Street, I have a Mary Henderson born at no. 37 in 1880, is it still there?
" Courant Court: High Street, North side, No. 37, Site of the Elgin Courant Newspaper Offices and Printing Presses and home to 4 families in 1851, and 7 families by 1901. In 2002 it is a gated close with a square pend, the houses bieing 3 storey at the pend and becoming 2 storey further down the close. There is evidence of bricked up doors and windows on the right hand side, including one large bricked-up access area witha hoist in the roof above which was probably connected with the old Elgin Courant Newspaper Printworks"
From The Lands and People of Moray , The Closes of Elgin by Bruce Bishop. Published in 2002 by J & B Bishop, Rivendell, Miltonduff, Elgin, Moray
Hope this is helpful. This little book is available from the North East Family History Society in Aberdeen, Scotland
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This little book is a wonderful find. Does anyone know if there is anything similar for Forres?
Kath :)