RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: Hackstaple on Saturday 18 September 04 20:50 BST (UK)
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Mary Ann Davis was born in Abergavenny about 1850. I have 3 possible candidates - Mar 1849 Vol. 26/P49 - Jun 1849 26/59 - Mar 1852 11a/50.
I have no way of distinguishing between these but my Mary Ann married Thomas Southern about 1868. They then lived at English Bicknor and raised 4 children - easily found in the 1881 census and again in 1891.
Can any kind soul find the marriage record of Mary and Thomas? Alternatively, can anyone find the birth record of Thomas - about 1846 that would be although his death dertificate would place it as 1841. I am reasonably sure that he was born in the forest of Dean. I have tracked various candidates in Herefordshire, Staffs and Worcs and none convince me.
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An update - a good breakthrough. I tried again with a professional genealogist to knock down a brick wall. I could not find my paternal GGGfather except in the 1881 census - no birth record, no marriage record. This would be a good lesson for beginners.
In the 1881 census [taken at English Bicknor, Gloucestershire] his place of birth is shown as Colwell, Herefordshire. There is no Colwell in that county but there is a Colwall. For that village there is an amazing web site with baptisms going back for over 300 years. No Thomas Southern.
One of his sons is shown as born at Chepstow so that was another possibility but drew a blank for Thomas. I obtained his death certificate which indicated 1840 or 1841 as his year of birth whilst the census indicated 1845 or 1846.
I investigated the town of English Bicknor and found it adjoined an area known as Coldwell or Coldwell Rocks. This almost lead me to the correct conclusion but still no trace.
I wrote to Eleanor Harris, a Herefordshire researcher. She came up with 1841 and 1851 census data for an area within Huntsham in Goodrich parish. This showed a John and Mary Southan with a son Thomas born 1840.
I investigated this further and found that the Coldwell part of Huntsham nd the Coldwell of English Bicknor are one and the same place! Huntsham and English Bicknor are in two different counties but are only one and half miles apart. Close study of gazetteer entries nad an ordnance survey map show no houses on the Gloucestershire side but a few cottages on the Herefordshire side.
So, welcome back Thomas Southern, not hidden in the witness protection programme but hiding under a slightly different surname.
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just goes to show we spend hours searching in wrong places or even very close to right places.
guess widen our searches place names and even surnames can be very deceiving :o
having looked for you myself and got nowhere I am really pleased for you where to next ???
sandie
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Sandie
I have now even found Thomas's elder brother on IGI - born English Bicknor 1833 - Josiah Sowthan! It is the same as he appears with the family in the 1841 Hereford census.
So there is another spelling.
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trouble is the soundex and phonetic searches never come up with the common sense variations like that.
you will have to start keeping a diary of differant names your searches will take twice as long now!
Mind you think mine will now I realise I have to try so many variations better get on with it
no doubt we will speak again soon sandie ;)
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Mary Ann Davis was born in Abergavenny about 1850. I have 3 possible candidates - Mar 1849 Vol. 26/P49 - Jun 1849 26/59 - Mar 1852 11a/50.
I have no way of distinguishing between these but my Mary Ann married Thomas Southern about 1868. They then lived at English Bicknor and raised 4 children - easily found in the 1881 census and again in 1891.
Can any kind soul find the marriage record of Mary and Thomas? Alternatively, can anyone find the birth record of Thomas - about 1846 that would be although his death dertificate would place it as 1841. I am reasonably sure that he was born in the forest of Dean. I have tracked various candidates in Herefordshire, Staffs and Worcs and none convince me.
Is this the marriage you are looking for:
Marriages Jun 1878
DAVIES Mary Ann Monmouth 11a 65
SOUTHAN Thomas Monmouth 11a 65
SOUTHAN Thomas DAVIES Mary Ann Forest of Dean Monmouth Register Office Closed 1878 11 48
Mike
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Mary Ann Davis was born in Abergavenny about 1850. I have 3 possible candidates - Mar 1849 Vol. 26/P49 - Jun 1849 26/59 - Mar 1852 11a/50.
I have no way of distinguishing between these but my Mary Ann married Thomas Southern about 1868. They then lived at English Bicknor and raised 4 children - easily found in the 1881 census and again in 1891.
Can any kind soul find the marriage record of Mary and Thomas? Alternatively, can anyone find the birth record of Thomas - about 1846 that would be although his death dertificate would place it as 1841. I am reasonably sure that he was born in the forest of Dean. I have tracked various candidates in Herefordshire, Staffs and Worcs and none convince me.
Is this the marriage you are looking for:
Marriages Jun 1878
DAVIES Mary Ann Monmouth 11a 65
SOUTHAN Thomas Monmouth 11a 65
SOUTHAN Thomas DAVIES Mary Ann Forest of Dean Monmouth Register Office Closed 1878 11 48
Mike
Rootschat is amazing. 11 years on and answers come in. I had found that marriage in the interim but a sincere thanks.
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good grief Hackstaple hadn't realised how long we have all been here on Rootschat :o time passes too quickly ...........oh well back to it!
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good grief Hackstaple hadn't realised how long we have all been here on Rootschat :o time passes too quickly ...........oh well back to it!
We were amongst the pioneers of Rootschat. Just 11 years ago! Who would have thought it would grow to such a size?
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It is now part of the establishment...........I must admit I don't post as much as I did to start but I still look in most days to see what's going on occasionally I can help, but usually someone else beats me to it!! see you around