RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: bitty_matriarch on Thursday 19 January 06 08:18 GMT (UK)
-
To quote from an email from Ancestry.co.uk this morning:-
"Dear Ann,
We value you as an Ancestry.co.uk user and we'd like to give you some exciting news. While many web sites are charging money for access to UK birth, marriage and death records, Ancestry.co.uk is the first and only UK website to offer the complete collection of General Register Office (GRO) birth, marriage and death records for FREE.
About the Ancestry.co.uk Birth, Marriage and Death Index:
It includes more than 250 million names from 1837.
It's fully searchable by surname range.
It's the highest-quality index of these records online.
Whether you're new to family history or an expert genealogist, you'll find the information in the Birth, Marriage and Death Index crucial to your research. These records can help you find out about the people in your family story -- for FREE.
Best of luck,
The Ancestry.co.uk Team"
And it's true - they are FREE, but why did this have to happen just after I forked out £50 for a year's subscription to 1837Online :'( :'(
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/anniemcc/smilies/Cheers.gif) Ann
19.1.06-21.27p.m.-Not sure why "Free" got changed to "nothing" later on in this thread ??? ???
-
Hi Ann - commiserations :'(
I think it's something called 'The Law According to S**' - It's just the kind of thing that happens to me too.
Suey
-
To quote from an email from Ancestry.co.uk this morning:[
I never got an email :(, so it was a nice surprise when I was searching Ancestry yesterday :)
Subscription to Ancestry, one of the best/most useful christmas presents. ;D
Bee
-
Hi Ann
My commiserations to you. I was thinking about the 1837online offer but was edging towards not taking it up when the email from ancestry (which I already subscribe to) came through so I am happy I made the right decision.
I do remember that in the terms and conditions of the 1837online offer there was a 14 day cooling off period in which you could get your £50 back less a deduction for any units used and a minimum admin fee of £5. There is an email address for the cancelation - if you haven't got the details send me a PM.
Ian
-
Was a bit cheeky last week and asked 1837 on line if they would do a deal for cheap units and was very chuffed when they said yes. Now I know why :'( Only got the Email this morning - rotters
Anyone like to buy 500 units - going cheap :'( :'( :'(
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be careful of the index, though - it's very strange in places
Tricia
-
Hi Ann,
Don't forget that Ancestry is not complete and has been transcribed where as 1837online has copied all the pages for you to search for yourself.
Good searching
Wendi
-
Do you mean the images - they are there - no spouse matching, though, I am told
???
-
I was just about to take up an offer with 1837 then read this.
Ancestry do have the actual images, not just transcriptions.
Thanks, guys, saved me a few bob - I can now afford the certificates!
meles
-
Hi Ann
My commiserations to you. I was thinking about the 1837online offer but was edging towards not taking it up when the email from ancestry (which I already subscribe to) came through so I am happy I made the right decision.
I do remember that in the terms and conditions of the 1837online offer there was a 14 day cooling off period in which you could get your £50 back less a deduction for any units used and a minimum admin fee of £5. There is an email address for the cancelation - if you haven't got the details send me a PM.
Thanks, Ian.
Just found all the necessary to cancel my subscription to 1837Online - I'll only lose £5.
BUT, if they'd included all their databases + those on the National Archivist website that they now own, I would've kept my subscription on. Will point this out when I email them to cancel ;D
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/anniemcc/smilies/Cheers.gif) Ann
-
Woo-hoo! Just had a nose at the Ancestry material and its great to have free access to it! I wasted so much dosh on 1837 Online (including credits that expired too quickly!) that this has to be the best post-Christmas present ever. Already found a few births that look useful. I am sure it will do Ancestry the power of good as it will increase the traffic on their site (and hence potential sign ups).
cheers
Paul
-
Have just sent in my cancelleation email :)
Will be interesting to see what 1837Online come back with regarding use of their other databases + National Archivist - which I've used a lot in the past as well.
Regards, Ann.
-
Thanks for letting us know about this, its great!
-
I noticed I was being bombarded with offers from 1837online recently. However, as a subscriber to Ancestry.com I haven't heard a thing about total access! The only thing I have noticed recently is that they have just begun called their 1837-1983 index 'the FreeBMD index'. Is this discrimination against .com users??
Ros
PS I'm amused to recall that this morning I read a great big grizzle about the amount of spam sent out by Ancestry. Obviously she/he and I don't get the right sort of spam!
Do we need to feel a bit sorry for an enterprising company that launched 1837online in the first place? These big US companies are VERY big and determined.
-
It is still worth using free bmd though
I've just checked a birth entry for Harriet Holmes Holmes Mar 1840 as I couldn't read the reference on the handwrtten original image on free BMD. Ancestry's version is a typewritten transcript which doesn't have Harriet at all
-
Re Ancestry.co.uk v Ancestry.com.
As a subscriber to the latter I have free access to the former (apart from free BMD stuff, she says bitterly).
Interesting to note, however, that the pop-up ads are different. Ancestry.co.uk tells me that the 1881 census is provided in conjunction with the National Archives. Ancestry.com doesn't breathe a word of this - and surely both owe total thanks to the Mormon Church?
Ros
-
Like many others I recently took up the 1/2 price offer of 1837 online and am now stuck with a lot of units.
I have never received an e-mail from Ancestry.co.uk advising that the BMR records are available. Why do they complicate our already complicated lives. But long term it is good news.
Geoff
-
Ancestry do have the actual images, not just transcriptions.
meles
meles
How do you get to them ???
Wendi
-
Main page => England and Wales BMD index 1837-1983
Tanja :)
-
oh wow :o
this is great
wahooooo ;D
thank you for this
-
I cant believe this, is this a limited time offer do you think?
Ive just managed to search 1901 census (trouble is this is my lunch break and gotta log off now) oh the frustration...
I have never paid ancestry and never signed for free trial so how come I can do this???? :o
-
They have the 1901 census free to search for a limited time. The BMD index seems to be free - at least I can't see anything about a limited time...
-
Thanks Tati ;D
-
Nice!! ;D ;D ;D
It's going to put a few other sites out of business!
Mary
-
Be very very careful when using this faciltiy.
I have cross checked a death and a marriage from 1837 on line and they do not appear on the Ancestry site.
Perhaps this is why it is free - bit hit and miss ,perhaps.
Missing pages?
Tricia
-
Because ancestry support FreeBDM and have a copy of their data base, I would assume that the images are those created for freeBDM transcribers to use - many of which are also available on freeBDM & Ancestry would have had to presumably create the page index. My understanding is that FreeBDM is precisely that and Ancestry have to accept that this data is FREE & simpy use it to enhance their image. I found it interesting that they now acknowledge that the 1837-1984 index is INCOMPLETE - a fact they never mentioned until recently.
I was contemplating the 1837 offer when I logged onto ancestry and found their data. It would seem 1837 has almost become obsolete - rather like my many family members of the 1800s who were candle makers. ;D ;D
Trish
-
Great news -saves all those journeys on the tube. BUT when I looked this morning I did find a few errors---I was looking up Ringrose in various years and sometimes the page came up with surnames beginning with a different letter.Still this problem will probably be solved .
Ringrose
-
Be very very careful when using this faciltiy.
I have cross checked a death and a marriage from 1837 on line and they do not appear on the Ancestry site.
Perhaps this is why it is free - bit hit and miss ,perhaps.
Missing pages?
Tricia
yes-if you search a year at a time, you can just as easily end up with only two or three records or six or seven. The incorrectly transcribed ones which mean extra entries is ok, but the missing ones seem unlikely for a common surname
-
I think you are probably right, the scans are those which FreeBMD have available, even if they haven't yet transcribed them and they admit they don't have a complete set yet, but add to their stock as and when funds are available to do so.
Since there are more available than are transcribed, albeit incomplete, at least it's a little way further ahead than we were before and if you are careful and take note of the quarters/years and pages checked it will cut down on those needed to be paid for in 1837online.
I was listening to Radio 2 two days ago, shortly before 5.00pm there is a slot called "Miles Mendoza's Website of the Day" and this particular day he was promoting family history - surprise surprise!
His commented that "Ancestry.co.uk are the only site with the complete Births, Marriages and Death index between 1837 and the present day"
Shows they don't research very well doesn't it? :P ;D ;D
Mary
-
Have been looking at pages for 10 mins. Some are so black and blurred that you cannot read them and the I had"Error processing image "" came up[. Possibly a lot of us are eagerly looking for our ancestors that the ssite cannoy cope.
Ringrose
-
Great news -saves all those journeys on the tube. BUT when I looked this morning I did find a few errors---I was looking up Ringrose in various years and sometimes the page came up with surnames beginning with a different letter
Ringrose
My interpretation is that either the 'indexer' has misread a "J" as a "T" for example,
Tubb instead of Jubb
or that
John E Smith at the start of the page is listed as John Esmith.
I'm sure that the index will improve as time goes on. The other thing to watch out for though is out-of-alphabetical order entries. The elusive ones may still be in there, so scroll through.
Pauline
Pauline
-
Does anybody have problems with the time to download the images. I don't have broadband but earlier today I had to give up. 1837 is much faster.
Geoff
-
Yes it does seem slow and as I mentioned earlier I cannot get images at all at the moment . I mannaged to do 2 years .
Ringrose
-
??? Images load much faster for me than on FreeBMD!!
I'm on 20+Mega broadband too ;D
Tanja :)
-
The hand written details on the new BMD on Ancestry are useless - they cannot be read - so much for making them free.
-
Hi there,
I've registered some time ago with Ancestry, but not paid them any money.I've received the e mail today and have been searching all afternoon.
I've found it faster and better than 1837 online as I've found a great -uncle who I could not locate on 1837 and of course.......it's free ;D
However,there is still one great-aunt I cannot find,but as the facility is free there's no problem with checking and re-checking.
So far so good and no complaints. :)
-
Nice!! ;D ;D ;D
It's going to put a few other sites out of business!
Mary
And when this happens - Ancestry will have taken over the Genealogical world.
Is this good for researchers in the long run?
Once all the competition has gone - how much for a subscription? I doubt if many of us will be smiling so readily for long.
A monopoly is never good for the consumer.
Ancestry (a non- British company) should not be allowed rights so readily to British data records and the Government/National Archives should put something in place to safe-guard enough competition for prices to be kept competitive.
I get the feeling that the N/A are grabbing as much money as quick as they can without looking to the future.
David.
-
I too received the email this morning from Ancestry!
Trouble is just before Christmas I paid for a full year with Ancestry.co.uk.
Talk about putting the knife in and turning!!!!!!!!!!
Can I get money back do you think???
Kerry
-
Its certainly not free to someone who has never subscribed to ancestry. I'm not happy at the false advertising.
I had to REGISTER just to use it - now I'm going to be bombarded with useless spam emails.
I refuse to give ancestry my credit card details just to try the 14 day free trial.
I guess the free index is only offered to those who have already subscribed - in which case its not really free, right?
I tried several names, and on every name I tried I could only read two pages before I got the "oops sorry we are very busy right now" page.
Ancestry sucks - as always >:(
Burrow Digger
-
Ive never subscribed before Burrow Digger - and only heard about it through this link and a mention of it my hubby heard on radio 2 the other day..
I have been able to search their FreeBMD index - occasionally it is coming up busy but thats probably because so many people are searching right now.
Mind you I havent been able to find the two people i want ::)
-
So if I understand that right!!---
they are not offering the free offer to people who don't subscribe, just to people who have already subscribed??
Is it me!! ??? ??? ::) ::) ??? ???
Kerry
-
So if I understand that right!!---
they are not offering the free offer to people who don't subscribe, just to people who have already subscribed??
Is it me!! ??? ??? ::) ::) ??? ???
Kerry
That seems to correct Kerry.
I only registered because of reading this thread.
Maybe I will try again later when the server is not so busy.
BD
-
Well I've heard it all now, I've paid an annual subscription fee to get something free!
I'm going to lie down. I have a headache!!
Kerry
-
The word has obviously got out ;D Ancestry seems to be on a complete meltdown, it won't even do a basic census search for me at the moment ???
-
Hi,
I,d like to have a go of this, but please could someone who is experienced with them, tell me if the registration with them -which seems strangely compulsory for a non-sbscription situation -does this open you to a lot of time wasting rubbishy contacts from them (and others they may pass your email on to??Sue
-
Most of the time i find my annual subscription to ancestry good mainly due to the census range it covers. I do have a subscription to thegenealogist.co.uk too though which i have used for whatever 1841 census stuff they have + their bmd stuff etc. I do find that i end up having IGI/ancestry/thegenealogist/freebmd/rootschat all open at once and do searches on mutiple sites at the same time. Couldn't manage if i have broadband though. Maybe i'm just obsessed.
Only just found the bmd stuff on ancestry today and like others i had no email (saying that i don't receive any emails or spam from them at all!)
David
-
I have only realised that the bmd is there ancestry thanks you all at Rootschat.
I subscribe and I never get emails of any sort from them! Wouldnt of minded getting on to tell me this news!
Nicky
-
Well I've heard it all now, I've paid an annual subscription fee to get something free!
I'm going to lie down. I have a headache!!
Kerry
;D ;D ;D me too Never look a gift horse eh
Its a free service, it has some hiccups which will probably get ironed out, its slow because every man and his dog is using it just now-but it replaces a service other providers have been charging a lot of money for-for free
I'll go lie down now
Monique
-
Well it may be free to search on ancestry but it's going to cost me a fortune in certificates!!! >:(
1837 was prohibitive when searching a 10 year time span but not it's only time I need not a lottery win!!
I have a list of 8 that I want from just an hour!
-
Hi Northern rose
I was thinking just that this afternoon. Am I sad or what-I was trying to work out how I could get family to buy certificates for my 50th in Feb-I must be nuts but there are just some more leads I need to follow up...
-
mc8, just tell them you want to feel like a teenager again so your going to ask for the money instead of the pressy!! Hope you have a great day in Feb ;D
-
Mc8 - Can we all come to the party????
-
Although I am a subscriber to Ancestry for the census returns, I haven't received any e mails about this so I don't think it is particular to subscribers.
The Ancestry BMD's used to occasionally be linked from FreeBMD when their server was busy and they used to direct you to Ancestry. I am sure that the information was the SAME information as FreeBMD, and therefore is incomplete. It used to be presented on Ancestry as lists, and not with the images though.
This link didn't appear all the time, and it's not there tonight as I just checked. I have just been into Ancestry and I only did one free search before it chucked me off whereas I got information from FreeBMD straight away. It's annoying that there is so much traffic that somebody couldn't even get a census return.
The records are only up to 1983 whereas the 1837 site is up to 2002. The 1837 site is part of a larger site which was originally set up some years ago for solicitors who needed to search for probate information, so it was not started with genealogy in mind.
I don't think Ancestry is doing this out of sheer goodwill - I would think there is something in it for them somewhere.
Honeybun
-
Well it may be free to search on ancestry but it's going to cost me a fortune in certificates!!! >:(
1837 was prohibitive when searching a 10 year time span but not it's only time I need not a lottery win!!
I have a list of 8 that I want from just an hour!
I had a really good session on Monday and I now have 5 B certs to order, 10 M certs and 32 D certs to order! I think I will probably order a few each month, trouble is, more will come about in the meantime!!
Kerry :-\
-
I was listening to Radio 2 two days ago, shortly before 5.00pm there is a slot called "Miles Mendoza's Website of the Day" and this particular day he was promoting family history - surprise surprise!
His commented that "Ancestry.co.uk are the only site with the complete Births, Marriages and Death index between 1837 and the present day"
Shows they don't research very well doesn't it? :P ;D ;D
Mary
He was probably reading directly from a press release from ancestry; lazy journalist!
-
Mc8 - Can we all come to the party????
of course-but you will need to be able to ski and get to Courchevel :-*
maybe see you at the Rootschat meet though?
Monique
-
To give you an idea of exactly how incomplete the ancestry version is -
I have previously transcribed ALL the 1837online listings for the death of persons with a certain common name over a 20-year period; I have 646 deaths.
When I searched ancestry just now for the same name and the same time period, they came up with 579 deaths.
Perhaps there are some that ancestry has that 1837 doesn't have, but I don't know that, and I would rather have the larger list.
(By the way, I was able to access the data although am not an ancestry subscriber, as I get it free at my library when I go there - a nuisance, as I have to save up what I'm searching for, but it seems like better value to do that.)
L
-
" I would rather have the larger list. "
Didn't cancel my units, Loo ;)
Tricia
-
Like so many others, I was caught out by the 1837online half price units offer before Christmas. Oh, well! Should have known better!
I haven't had any problems accessing the Ancestry BMD and found it much quicker to load than 1837online (I do have broadband), but the indexing is dreadful! There might be some excuse for the handwritten entries (though the slightest bit of common sense would have avoided many of the mistakes) but they've even got it wrong on the later, typewritten entries, by frequently indexing on a forename instead of the surname at the end of the page. It wastes a lot of time trying to sort out which are the pages you actually need.
OK, so it's a free extra for subscribers, but it's a shame they couldn't have made a bit better job of it. I hope they do improve it, as some rootschatters seem confident they will – but somehow I doubt it...
-
Like lots of others I was excited to see the full BMD index pages free on Ancestry. I have often said on Rootschat how I dont know how anyone can do Family History without looking at the full indexes - and that meant going to Myddleton Str or paying for 1837online.
HOWEVER, I have just spent about half an hour looking up some things, and whilst some pages are fine, they have RUINED the whole thing on others by some stupid 'lack of common sense' mistakes.
Anyone with half a brain can see it is an alphabetical list. Apart from whoever set up the ancestry version!
So, I am looking for a surname beginnig with E . It leads me to a page they say is Bowley to Rule. Obviously far to big a range, and sure enough when I view it, it is actually Rowley to Rule.
There is NO WAY t view any pages from Bowley to Rowley - because of this error.
SO STUPID!!! Even if the first entry on the page looked like Bowley (it didnt) due to a smudge or inksplodge, anyone with an ounce of common sense could see it was actually Rowley. In an alphabetical list there would not be a Bowley in the middle of Rowleys!
And this happened twice - the second time exactly the same principal. Imposible to look at the page for a E.
If I havent explained what I mean try looking for a birth of an Edmonds in OND 1907, or birth of an Edmonds in OND 1872 (Think I have got those right) but I am SO MAD and SO FRUSTRATED that they can ruin something by being SO STUPID!!
Rant over , I think..........
-
Have you reported it to Ancestry?
sometimes minor glitches are ironed out very quickly.
Mind I've been waiting for 1851 Ruabon for 3 months. At least they've acknowledged its missing.
-
Temporary workaround - look for something else near Edmonds. I.E. if you look for Edwards in 1872, it comes up with two sets of pages - the Bowley to Rule set and a second set which is correct. If you click on the second set it comes up with '2 of 5' which covers the second half of Edwards (from 'James Edwards onwards), but one back is 'Edmonds'
Further, you can browse pages like this:
http://content.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/list.aspx?dbid=8964&path=
Choose year, then quarter, then first letter. Unfortunately slower than it would be otherwise - but it does let you get around the problem for now.
(I have run across one page so far that wouldn't load at all! Anybody else had this problem?)
-
After the initial euphoria lots agree with you.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,121430.0.html Topics merged.
It's not just the indexing - there seem to be missing pages as well.
You pays your money(or not) and takes your choice :)
Tricia
-
OK, so it's a free extra for subscribers
Just went to the site without logging in - they say free access (for non subscribers, apparently) is limited in time...
Tanja :)
-
I've had another trawl around today-I agree that the indexing is poor and I think it was probably done is some bulk processing centre rather than freebmd transcribers who are used to old handwriting. Also, the image quality on some of the handwritten pages is far worse than the same sheets on another site that I use.
I think the pages are all there-but because they are incorrectly indexed (eg Kemp as Remp), they don't come up in the search
there doesn't seem to be a mechanism for reporting errors
-
there doesn't seem to be a mechanism for reporting errors
Top right hand corner of the image page has a link to report errors click on something like "having problems with this page/image".
I reported one page that came up for Dutton's but was actually names beginning R! There were so many wrong I gave up!
-
Thanks for tips, will go back another time and see what I can find.
Yes, I did report them.
But what got me is how unnecessary it is, when it is so obvious how it works, as an alphabetrical list. We are not talking old writing than it hard to decipher (not for the years in question anyway) but a typewritten alphabetical list - so even if you thought you saw a Bowley in the middle of the Rowleys SURELY you wouldn't just take is as fact and wrongly index a page because of?
I will calm down eventually!!
-
I am a subscriber to Ancestry and I did get an e-mail from them .Had the same problem with wrong initial letter but sometimes just below there is anoter entry which is correct. I did a 20 year search for one family name and several deaths. Only 2 years dec 1925 and Jan 1926 were either too black to read -one looked as if a cup of water was spilt over it. One record I was looking for could have been onthese pages. Having ruled out lots of other years I will now contact the local registry office about the name I am looking for.
I think it is super to be able to open up the 20th century from home . I was always a bit worried about using 1837, Genealogist or Family Relative sites as my money would disappear rapidly!!!I dont imagine any of these site sare happy!
Ringrose
-
Can anyone give me any encouragement as to whether I am likely to find a death in the registry office that I cannot find on 1837?
-
I'm ecstatic that Ancestry has put this information on their website. As many of you have pointed out it avoids using 1837online and the "pay per view" issue. What has surprised me is the lack of gratitude and satisfaction that I have sensed in a large number of these posts. Since when has genealogy been easy? We are always plagued by transcription errors whether they be from suppliers or our own difficulty in reading old handwriting (or simply hitting the wrong key on the keyboard). We often have to use creative and lateral thinking to figure out where our ancestors are hiding.
Have our standards become so high that we would rather wait for perfection (for free) rather than take something a bit suboptimal sooner? I'd rather not wait. I also don't want to discourage any companies such as Ancestry from making this information available.
Just my humble opinion
Mark
-
I've been a subscriber to Ancestry for a few months and have only just discovered the 1984 - 2000 Index (which is not free). Has this always been there?
I've also just found that the new images are listed as a BETA file - hence errors should be expected and corrections will no doubt be made.
I think it was the 1851 census that finally convinced me to subscribe & it has been significant in assisting my research - probably the best value I have got in genealogy expenditure (I have spent similar on ScotlandsPeople for many less census images - and that would be my No 2 value expenditure).
All I need now is for English & Australian certificates to cost the same as the Scotland images ( 1 pound) and my life from a genealogy point of view would be very happy ;D ;D
Trish
-
I've finally found the BMD index pages through ancestry.uk - they don't seem to show up on ancestry.com.
I'm with Mark - I think it is great to get this sort of access without having to worry about how much each page is costing. Though, sod's law, now I am confronted with it I can't think of a single person to look up!
While I was looking I suddenly got a pop-up survey form from/about Ancestry. Couldn't resist filling it in - basically I have been a big fan for years and couldn't do without it.
Two interesting questions at the end:
If you were to give the web site two pieces of advice what would those be?
If you should mention two things you found especially good about the website, what would they be?
My advice was to stop changing things for change's sake (I'm still sore about being no longer able to enlarge images without upgrading my internet software); and I expressed concern that their increasing monopoly might encourage them to increase fees.
My good things were their brilliant search engine and their census material - albeit needing improved indexing.
Any more suggestions?
Ros
-
Hello piedstilt,
I also had a panicky couple of days of not being able to find them on Ancestry.com (as opposed to Ancestry.co.uk), but they are there for the finding:
Home page>
right-hand side, bottom part, "recently added databases">
England & Wales Birth Index, etc. 01/18/2006
Heavens knows why they did not made them more prominent!!! They were/still are (?) really hard to find!!
But they seem to change the design of their pages constantly, so by the time you read this, the design may already have changed.
Anyway, like you, having found them at last, I can hardly think of anyone left to look up!!
Oh well...........
UKgirl
-
Have just sent in my cancelleation email :)
Will be interesting to see what 1837Online come back with regarding use of their other databases + National Archivist - which I've used a lot in the past as well.
Received this email from 1837Online yesterday:
"Thank you for your email.
We are currently experiencing extremely high volumes of customer emails which may mean we are unable to answer your email as quickly as we would hope.
Please be assured your custom is important to us and we respond as soon as possible.
Kind regards,
Customer Services Team 1837online.com
24 Britton Street, London, EC1M 5UA, United Kingdom "
I bet they are experiencing high levels of refund request emails!
I'd like to see my refund in place before the card bill comes in!
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/anniemcc/smilies/Cheers.gif) Ann
-
I'm ecstatic that Ancestry has put this information on their website. As many of you have pointed out it avoids using 1837online and the "pay per view" issue. What has surprised me is the lack of gratitude and satisfaction that I have sensed in a large number of these posts. Since when has genealogy been easy? We are always plagued by transcription errors whether they be from suppliers or our own difficulty in reading old handwriting (or simply hitting the wrong key on the keyboard). We often have to use creative and lateral thinking to figure out where our ancestors are hiding.
Have our standards become so high that we would rather wait for perfection (for free) rather than take something a bit suboptimal sooner? I'd rather not wait. I also don't want to discourage any companies such as Ancestry from making this information available.
Just my humble opinion
Mark
Garrick Webster, the editor of Your Family Tree magazine contacted the UK MD of Ancestry.UK and was informed that the "data has been put up early and is in a 'beta' format. They hope their database will be working properly and that all these random errors that appear will be cleared up by Wednesday."
Cheers
Guy
-
Mark
Whatever I feel about Ancestry offering me something free when I have just paid annual subscription, please be assured that the price I paid for the annual subscription is worth the aggro otherwise I would not have bothered.
Basically I find Ancestry.uk a very useful site, yes there are transcription errors but I have learnt about to think laterally or literally (never quite sure) and find missing people. I wouldn't pay £60 lightly without knowing I will use the site a lot and get use from it.
Also yes it saves me buying another load of credits from 1837.
By the way has anybody else found One World Tree on Ancestry, I actually found some stuff on their the other day that was useful. However I also found a gr gr grandfather connected to a completely wrong family that I had to change but the info I found that was useful far outweighed that!
Kerry
-
You might have noticed the word "beta" on the BMD. Although they have not said, it's a first test. So it can only get better.
I'm delighted, I've sorted out three problems already!
meles
-
I've only just found this thread ( late as always ) and must admit I hadn't even realised that the original images were available through ancestry.
Typically, I'm one of those who paid a one-off fee to 1837online just before Christmas for 3 years unlimited access to BMD records.
But given that, I still think I'm ahead. Many a time, I've found entries on 1837online that Ancestry seems to have cleverly hidden and from posts on here it seems that it's far from being as complete as 1837online even with it's occasional indexing problem. Searching is definitely quicker.
So, no complaint from me. Yet.
( Or maybe I'm just trying to justify the money spent ::) )
Dragonlore
-
Gawd!!
So its still the same old story,you pay's your monet and you take's your chance,or you pay's your money and get's your info.
Read all the pro+con's,still on the side of the freebies.
Think I'll lie down now.
Goggy. ::)
-
The images are free for now but they may not stay that way. As has been pointed out the database is a "beta" database. In other words it is a test database. The 1851 census was made available as a beta version for a week or so and the disappeared in that form. When it reappeared it was part of the subscription service. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the beta version of the BMD images disappears in a week or so and then reappears as part of the subscription service. If so, I don't think that Ancestry have made it available for free just to entice people to subscribe but to see how the database performs under high use. For those that have a subscription to Ancestry I would suggest that you don't fret about paying for something that you could have got for free and for those that aren't subscribers I would suggest that they "make hay while the sun shines." The only real losers at this point in time are, unfortunately, those who have credits to 1837online. The issue there is that the way that the BMD database it set up and "indexed" (if you can call it an index) is not really compatible with a pay-per-view business model that keeps a customer satisfied. Since I am performing what amounts to a one-name study of a couple of my lines the Ancestry subscription business model works best for me. Now, if they would only get the 1841 census on line! Given the fact that they have just put the BMD images up I doubt that it is coming in the next few weeks but would love to be proved wrong.
Regards
Mark
-
Mark
when did you get to be so sensible!!!!! ;D ;D
That was exactly the conclusion I came to so I have been taking advantage of whatever offer it is that Ancestry have offered me!
Oh for the 1841!!!!! :( :(
Kerry
-
I am now in my second year of a subscription to Ancestry.co.uk.
I too considered 1837online's "hurry, buy now" subscription offer before christmas, because I feel a subscription is so much better value than pay per view when you are researching heavily in england and wales post 1837.
I hesitated though, and decided to look at what the other BMD-focused sites were offering. I signed up with the genealogist - primarily because it was a slightly better price, and there was a reasonable amount of 1841 census info there - which of course was not covered by my Ancestry subscription.
So, like others, I was a bit taken aback when I got my ancestry notification that they were offering the BMD registers (I assumed at the time, just to ancestry subscribers), and feel a little burned.
However, what is good about this whole affair is that the balance between pay per view and subscriptions has changed - so bulk users (like many of us on here) are probably now much better served in terms of what we get for what we pay. This must be welcome (unfortunately there is no competition in Scotland to force Scotlandspeople's hand to offer a subscription-type package).
This may be the death knell for 1837online - and I assume it is why they have joined forces with others to broaden their offerings. While I am a fan of ancestry (because it meets most of my current needs) I am concerned that they might wipe out all competition.
JULIAN
-
Am I sad or what-I was trying to work out how I could get family to buy certificates for my 50th in Feb-I must be nuts but there are just some more leads I need to follow up...
Ace idea for birthday presents - I will be 40 in Feb and family are asking me what would I like ;D.
I have subscribed to Ancestry.co.uk in the past but do not currently have a live subscription. I can access the BMD ok, but never received the email.
Sue B
-
Snap Sue B,
my 40th on the 17th Feb and I was just wondering how I could get my family to buy all the certs I have listed for me!
Kerry ;D
-
Re the 1841 census online
The one and only subscription I HAVE paid for is one annual amount to British Origins (it is NOT PPV) for access to the 1841 & 1871 census records. So far 1841 has 23 counties and 1871 has about 15 counties online, but more are being added on a regular basis.
I think I paid about $50 CAN (roughly about 23 pounds??) and I think it has been the best value for any genealogical subscription available by far.
JMO ;D
BD
-
I tried to look at the images but it says i have to subscribe to look at them, I thought it was free!!!!
-
Hi Charby
I think you will find that is for the census images. They are not free.
Find the link to the England and Wales BDM Index & you will get the choice to search the partial FreeBDM or the Complete Images - Birth Death and Marriage separately. They are both free at the minute. I am a subscriber, but I can access them when I am logged off.
Trish
-
Something I've found when signing up for free trials. They often don't check you card details until they come to take the money once the free trail comes to an end. It's worth trying it with made up details as they are often accepted. Then when they come to take the money, they can't get it and you don't have to remember to cancel.
I've found it works more often than not :)
-
Dangerous thing to do in the UK it comes under - Obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception.
Cheers
Guy
-
I think the chances of any case being brought against you because you mixed up the numbers on your credit card a bit are pretty slim. If they were to bother, they would have to prove you did it on purpose.
I normally just get a standard response saying the card number was not recognised and if I wish to continue my subscription, to follow a link where I can update my payment details.
I can't really see the danger in it.
Anyway I don't beleive that this would come under obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception. The following are the four definitions:
(i) Being allowed to borrow by way of overdraft, eg where D pays for goods or services by way of a cheque drawn on his own account having been instructed by his bank not to do so, he will commit an offence under s16 if the cheque is supported by his cheque guarantee card and the bank, as a result, has to debit the amount of the cheque from D's account, thus increasing his overdraft.
(ii) Taking out a policy of insurance or annuity contract, or obtaining an improvement of the terms on which the defendant is allowed to do so, eg where D secures a policy, or a policy on better terms, by falsely stating that he is a non-smoker where this is material to the issue of the policy or its terms.
(iii) Being given an opportunity to earn remuneration or greater remuneration in an office or employment, eg where D lies about his qualifications and secures a job as a result, the job is the pecuniary advantage obtained by deception.
(iv) Being given the opportunity to win money by betting, eg where D by deception is allowed to bet on credit or cash terms.
-
Dangerous thing to do in the UK it comes under - Obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception.
Cheers
Guy
Extremely debatable..................the free service is not provided on the basis of an obligation to pay for their services thereafter.Consequently no one has gained anything and no one has lost anything.The Company just hope you will take up their paid services,having seen how good they are when you make use of their free service.However,there is no legal obilgation to do so.
Besides,I would have thought offences under the Theft Act 1978 more appropriate,if anything.
:)
-
Something I've found when signing up for free trials. They often don't check you card details until they come to take the money once the free trail comes to an end. It's worth trying it with made up details as they are often accepted. Then when they come to take the money, they can't get it and you don't have to remember to cancel.
The problem with making up credit card details is that you might unknowingly land someone else with your bill....we ended up with someone else's purchase on our credit card because they'd got one digit wrong when giving their number. Didn't seem to matter that the names didn't match! Fortunately we noticed it and were able to get the money refunded.
Jane
-
The pecuniary advantage is the free service, it is provided on the terms that you provide the details of your credit card.
There is a big difference between mixing up a number or two in your number and giving a false number.
I am surprised no one sees the blatant dishonesty involved seems I must belong to a different world. :(
Cheers
Guy
-
Guy,
You're not in a different world. I hadn't weighed in earlier since I am in a different timezone though! Like you I feel that this approach isn't above board.
Mark
-
There is no reason why I should give away any of my personal details for something that is 'free'. By saying it's free they shouldn't be asking me for anything at all. And it's not until you try to get the 'free' access that you find out what it costs. Where's the honesty in that? Then they find some pretext for taking money from you. I had this happen to me once before and I couldn't stop them taking money every quater although I had contacted them several times to cancel. My credit card company said they couldn't help, so I had to cancel my card. Who was being honest there?
I don't believe anyone has the right to take any of my personal details and I will withhold them if I see fit. We are all like sheep filling in information that is not required just because we are asked to. This is why so many people get conned and have their identities stolen and their bank accounts raided.
There are posting trails on this site of people saying they get silent or sales phone calls - how many of these people have given out their phone number online when signing up to things? Then your phone number just gets sold on to someone else.
What is the the reason for asking for these details? If a company can give me a legitimate fair reason why they require them, then I will provide them, but tricking you into signing up to something you haven't even decided if you want yet is much more dishonest than what I do.
Businesses have no conscience when it comes to making money, you can bet if the tables were turned, they would be doing the same thing, why should I help them?
If they don't like it, they can sue me.
-
The pecuniary advantage is the free service, it is provided on the terms that you provide the details of your credit card.
There is a big difference between mixing up a number or two in your number and giving a false number.
I am surprised no one sees the blatant dishonesty involved seems I must belong to a different world. :(
Cheers
Guy
I do not dispute the action may be dishonest,I merely dispute the offence which may be committed as there is no pecuniary advantage obtained........the person doing it has not gained any financial advantage.I still say the Theft Act 1978 is more appropriate if any offences have been committed.
The deliberate provision of false credit card details is morally wrong, but, in these circumstances, not necessarily criminal.
:)
-
Something I've found when signing up for free trials. They often don't check you card details until they come to take the money once the free trail comes to an end. It's worth trying it with made up details as they are often accepted. Then when they come to take the money, they can't get it and you don't have to remember to cancel.
If you provided a false credit card number and as a result someone else completely was erroneously charged against that card, would you say that was fair?
Whatever you might think about Ancestry's business methods, I would always prefer to be on the moral high ground.
JULIAN
-
It's exetremly hard to make up a credit card number and have it accepted, people would be doing all of the time otherwise. Maybe one for the scammers to try??
-
Received this email from 1837Online yesterday:
"Thank you for your email.
We are currently experiencing extremely high volumes of customer emails which may mean we are unable to answer your email as quickly as we would hope.
Please be assured your custom is important to us and we respond as soon as possible.................."
I bet they are experiencing high levels of refund request emails!
I'd like to see my refund in place before the card bill comes in!
GOT my refund!
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/anniemcc/smilies/Cheers.gif) Ann
-
Hello
Is anyone else having trouble accessing the marriages 1837-1983 on Ancestry.co.uk. It has been fine up until today.
jane7
-
Me ! So it's not just you.
the search terms box doesn't come up! ???
Helen
-
I am glad it is not just me. Where has it gone?
Jane7
-
I am surprised no one sees the blatant dishonesty involved seems I must belong to a different world. :(
If you are, I'm in it too Guy. Far too many scammers out there as it is
-
i have been accessing b m d on ancestry for the last 18months or so for free, its knowing how to get into it and where to click to access it.
moira
-
i have just been on ancestry, nothing wrong with it, heres how to access it easily.
go to freeukgen, put your name in the box at the top which says name, press enter, the page comes up and where there is no padlocks you can access those pages, also you can do 1901 census without paying to see who is in the household. Good searching.
moira
-
Hi Jane and Helen
I couldn't get the marriages yesterday & they are still missing for me today (am in Australia)
I think this is different to what you are looking at Moira, the new images aren't indexed like the earlier data.
Trish
-
I don't actually see why it would be wrong to give an imaginary credit card number, if the whole "transaction" is imaginary. It's not fraud, in my view, because YOU'RE NOT BUYING ANYTHING. When and if you plan to buy something, you can update your credit card number - I'm sure they'll be happy to receive it.
Another option, if you're determined, is to get a new credit card, submit the number, then cancel the card.
Just my opinion.
-
Hi trish, just had a look on ancestry, yes i can see it is the same format as 1837online, very good as i have spent pounds on there, but rootschat are not going to get as many requests posted now are they, because people can look for themselves for free instead of asking us. Oh well, we can't win them all!
moira
-
I don't actually see why it would be wrong to give an imaginary credit card number, if the whole "transaction" is imaginary. It's not fraud, in my view, because YOU'RE NOT BUYING ANYTHING. When and if you plan to buy something, you can update your credit card number - I'm sure they'll be happy to receive it.
Another option, if you're determined, is to get a new credit card, submit the number, then cancel the card.
Just my opinion.
It is fraud for the simple reason that you agree to supply your credit card details as a condition to use and view the database for free. In other words you are nor keeping your side of the contract.
Imagine it the other way round. How would you feel if a company offered you free access to BMDs on condition you gave them the details of your credit card (which you did) and there was nothing on the site. Would you feel conned? Would you feel it wrong that they had deceived you?
Cheers
Guy
-
Imagine it the other way round. How would you feel if a company offered you free access to BMDs on condition you gave them the details of your credit card (which you did) and there was nothing on the site. Would you feel conned? Would you feel it wrong that they had deceived you?
In my experience, websites constantly offer 'free' information but on closer inspection they give you nothing at all without committment in some form from me, there is always a catch, I have often been the victim of their deceit. Unfortunately companies don't have feelings, so they don't feel conned or deceived, it's just another number to them.
They have lost nothing, because if I feel they are value for money, I will subscribe and give them my business. If their site is not of value to me, I won't and I don't run the risk of my card details being used fraudulently.
-
Personally, I would feel conned if they asked me for my credit card when I wasn't buying anything. There is no connection between getting your credit card number and buying nothing. The two just don't go together, as the sole purpose of a credit card is to buy something.
If there isn't a law against this, there ought to be.
In Canada, for instance, it is illegal to even ask you for your social insurance number (federal ID) unless you have a very legitimate reason for using it (banks and employers are allowed to ask because their payments to you affect income tax). Many many companies do not like this legilsation, and got into the habit of asking people for their social insurance number when they had no business with it because it is very convenient for them; over the years most of them have learned that they cannot do this, because it is enforced.
I am not going to bother, because I am not going to use ancestry's site, but I recommend that people phone their credit card companies and get their advice before advancing this information.
-
I don't actually see why it would be wrong to give an imaginary credit card number, if the whole "transaction" is imaginary. It's not fraud, in my view, because YOU'RE NOT BUYING ANYTHING.
In fact, by accepting the free trial, you are entering into a legally binding contract, so providing false details would be a breach. This site explains it rather well
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/products/trialoffers.htm
-
In fact, by accepting the free trial, you are entering into a legally binding contract, so providing false details would be a breach. This site explains it rather well
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/products/trialoffers.htm
Thanks for that. There's generally no such thing as a free lunch!
JULIAN
-
I have to say I'm extremely impressed with the searches on Ancestry. 1837online is quite highly-priced, especially when you don't know exactly what year someone was born/married/died and then when you find it you're paying for the certs.
The searching is flawed, but after looking across a 20 year period for one ancestor, I've found no missing pages. The searches often will bring up less than 4 results for one year, but the missing quarters can easily be found by reducing the surname from say Smith to Sm, then you can navigate the pages when the first has loaded up to get to the right record.
Transcription-wise, I don't think it's any worse than any other site and often sites use each other's transcriptions which leads to a string of inaccurate records.
I'm just over the moon that I can search for all my ancestors for whom I am unsure as to their dates with relatively little hassle and more importantly, for free. ;D
-
They don't seem to have all the images on there, and I'm not talking about them being mistranscribed. I was looking for the marriage of my grandfather's brother and even when I went into the H section of each quarter in 1939, there were several pages missing. I had been searching around earlier and there tend to be around 100 pages, that time there were 30 and the one I needed was missing. It only took a couple of minutes to find on 1837online, and at least they have them transcribed sensibly. It seems to me that whoever at Ancestry decided this would be a good idea didn't set any rules for how to transcribe them - Do they put the surname first or last? I have seen several done the other way around which makes me feel Ancestry has poorly ornganised it. It seems more like a rushed job to me.
Sorry about the rant about Ancestry, I know it's a great site but there are so many simple things which could make it so much better.
-
If you look at the "front page" it says
"England & Wales, BMD Index (Beta)" this means they are testing the site and ironing out such problems.
When they are satisfied all is working correctly they will remove the Beta tag.
Cheers
Guy
-
This is a reference to US law, and Ancestry is a US organization.
Nowhere does it mention the situation of being asked to give your credit card number when you are not buying anything and have not been asked to buy anything (as I understand it - I have not looked into signing on). It primarily addresses the need to cancel when you have agreed on a default basis to buy something. Other laws ought to protect against that misuse of personal information and against this kind of condition, and perhaps they do in some jurisdictions, maybe even in the US.
In the example they give of the pantyhose, there is/was a company in Ontario that used to continue to send you pantyhose and bill you for it because you'd agreed to receive one free pair; you had to pay for them too, and the quality was dreadful! Their practices have been made illegal within the past year by changes in consumer protection law here. So, hopefully, consumers are winning, bit by bit. The only way to make this shady practice go away is to make sure you have adequate consumer protection laws, as there will always be some people who will participate. In the meanwhile, call your credit card company; they don't like it when their numbers are mis-used, and will likely know if there is some remedy under the law.
I would be very surprised if they bother to check these credit card numbers when you're not buying anything. What a waste of time that would be!
I don't actually see why it would be wrong to give an imaginary credit card number, if the whole "transaction" is imaginary. It's not fraud, in my view, because YOU'RE NOT BUYING ANYTHING.
In fact, by accepting the free trial, you are entering into a legally binding contract, so providing false details would be a breach. This site explains it rather well
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/products/trialoffers.htm
-
Hello everyone,
Something that none of you have pointed out, is that Ancestry offers one free trial per credit card. Of course there are some people who have more than one credit card, and therefore more than one credit card number, and so they may be able to obtain several free trials. But without the credit card information, how would Ancestry be able to limit their free trials to one per person? How would they identify who has already had a free trial? People would rejoin endlessly under a false name. After all, they are running a business, not a free service. They are generous enough to offer the free trial, which I myself have happily utilized. I certainly have no complaints about that.
I have found their service to be very legitimate. I even received several free months' service from them when I queried an errror that they had overlooked. I also have the experience of joining under a "monthly membership", which is not the same as a monthly payment for their annual membership. I obtained this membership through a direct telephone call to the company in America. Perhaps you cannot join the "monthly membership" over the Internet. It is not widely advertised, and is at a slightly higher rate, but with the convenience of being able to cancel at any moment. Perhaps it is of greatest use to Americans who are only needing to use membership for a short time to track one small family branch. Or maybe some people just feel more comfortable knowing that they can cancel at any moment.
I notice that many of you who seem to attack the company, are only too happy to receive a look-up from those of us who are members. We are happy to help, and not everyone is in the position to join. But surely it is a bit much to then criticize the very company that enables the look-up in the first place.
As for the comment that there is never a free lunch - I would suggest that there is sometimes a free lunch - but you just have to remember to cancel the agreement - is that really asking so much?
But with regard to the Birth, Marriage, Death Index which can be viewed freely now, one can imagine that the ultimate goal of Ancestry is to make the Index fully searchable under both family name AND given name, as the company called "familyrelatives.org" has already provided for the period 1866-1920. As any of you who have used that site know, being able to search for an entry at the click of a button, rather than tediously searching through page after page, is simply wonderful. If Ancestry do that, then no doubt this new service will cease to be free. So, as mnmilt said, we had better all "Make hay while the sun shines".
UKgirl
-
But with regard to the Birth, Marriage, Death Index which can be viewed freely now, one can imagine that the ultimate goal of Ancestry is to make the Index fully searchable under both family name AND given name, as the company called "familyrelatives.org" has already provided for the period 1866-1920. As any of you who have used that site know, being able to search for an entry at the click of a button, rather than tediously searching through page after page, is simply wonderful. If Ancestry do that, then no doubt this new service will cease to be free.
Given that FreeBDM is doing precisely this, and now has the indexes almost complete in the 19th Century and is into the 20th Century, it is unlikely that Ancestry will separately do this. The use of the images will simply allow one to confirm the FreeBDM transcript if doubts arise as to validity.
Like many jobs/money making schemes of previous eras, the completion of FreeBDM and FreeCen projects will make all of these pay systems redundant.
Trish
-
Of course, FreeBMD is wonderful and we all wish for it to be completed as soon as possible - more of us should volunteer to help.
But in the meantime - there is still 1911-1984 to be completed. I simply imagine that Ancestry will get there first!! I have no information about this, it just seems logical that they have some sophisticated scanning system to help them in this endeavour. After all, "familyrelatives.org" seemed to achieve the scanning of the 1866-1920 period very quickly indeed.
UKgirl
-
Something that none of you have pointed out, is that Ancestry offers one free trial per credit card. Of course there are some people who have more than one credit card, and therefore more than one credit card number, and so they may be able to obtain several free trials. But without the credit card information, how would Ancestry be able to limit their free trials to one per person?
Some sites (such as Ebay) use your email address as long as it is not one of the free sort you can obtain off the internet, but one provided by your ISP. This is just as effective as using a credit card number.
I am a fully paid up subscriber to Ancestry I find it great value for money and it has saved me a lot of leg work and expense. I don't mind having to look at loads of pages to find what I'm looking for, before FreeBMD, the only way to find BMD's was to go down to the library and trawl through the micro fiche there. At least now I can do that in the comfort of my own home and not limit myself to when I can do it. I have also got a few clues that I otherwise would have missed by filtering everything but the specific info I'm looking for.
-
I would rather trawl through pages of Ancestry any day to fiche after fiche - they make me dizzy!!
Kerry
-
I have just received my ancestry monthly newsletter and this is what they say:
Ancestry.co.uk is the first and only UK website to offer the entire births, marriages and deaths index for England and Wales from 1837 for FREE. Over 250 million names can be searched by surname range within the birth, marriage and death index now available on Ancestry.co.uk
These records will help you trace those all important ancestors for absolutely free. The birth, marriage and death index is an important piece to the puzzle for family researchers to begin their research. The service is free with Ancestry.co.uk so you can start searching right now. . .
JULIAN