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Research in Other Countries => Canada Lookup Request => Canada => Canada Lookup Requests Completed => Topic started by: Shirley-Marie on Wednesday 18 January 06 00:09 GMT (UK)
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Searching for ships name that the above left England to go to Canada, Most likely New Brunswick, or Nova Scotia. As they were here in 1861 Census in Canning , Kings Co. Nova Scotia.
Ann had a child while here in Canada who would have gone back with them. Daughter was Elizabeth Ann Lightfoot dob 02-Jul 1862.
They would have came to Canada between 1852 and 1870 and may have had a young boy with them name James Lightfoot., dob 10 May 1841, the son of William and Mary Ann Lightfoot.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Shirley
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If you go back up to the top of this topic...there are ships lists under resources
Canada but not a lot for that time period.
To look for your relatives who may have stayed behind, ( sounds as though
they returned to Eng.) do you know at what point this happened...be less
vague? 1901 & partial 1911 http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/index.html
but the only James I found as older and in N.S, came here in 1870...
But is in Kings so is in right area!
Your time frame seems a little off in your request...so if you want more than
just ships lists some birth dates and locations, etc. would be appreciated.
Hard to gauge from info provided. J.J.
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Hello J. J
Thanks for replying , now I will try and make it clearer for you. I believe that John Hume Lightfoot and his wife came to Canada and they also brought William & Mary Ann's son James with them, Baptised 10 May1841. I also believed that it was sometime between 1852 and 1862. Now I believe that John and his wife returned to England with a daughter that was born here in Nova Scotia in 1862. I also believe that James's William's son stayed behind. As John and his wife and child show up in the English census 1871. However I know James must have stay behind as he got married here in Nova Scotia in 1870 to a Canadian girl here. and came up in census in 1881 .
I am not positive, that John Hume Lightfoot and wife brought James to Canada. but it appears likely.
Now John was in found in the Canadian LDS in pedigree. He may also have drop the John when he came back to England or spelled Hume ( hulme).
I Know James stay here as well as he is my gr grandfather and I have the rest of his family History here.
I hope this helps.
Thanks
Shirley
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Thanks, shirley, now we can see that this is not a large time frame...so
pretty tough to do...but now it is a lot clearer what and who you want to
research, although you still have no dates of birth?...If someone can look
for you, they will need this information.
If someone is researching from the remaining family in England
they will find this thread. In the meantime...ships lists are tough...
Add all the info you can for when others search, as the search engines
pick up this site really quickly! J.J.
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Hello J.J.
I really appreciate the help that you are giving me.
I will try and make it clearer for you. I believe that,
John Hume Lightfoot dob: 1821 ??
Wife Ann came to Canada and I believe they also brought , william and Mary Ann Lightfoots' son
James Lightfoot dob: 10 May 1841 with them. I also believed that it was sometime between 1852 and 1862. Now I believe that John and his wife returned to England with a daughter Elizabeth Ann Lightfoot that was born here in Nova Scotia in 02 Jul 1862.
I believe that John and his wife Ann and Elizabeth show up in the English census 1871., however ,I know William and Mary Ann Lightfoot's son James was here in here in Nova Scotia in 1870 . He got married here in Nova Scotia in 1870 to a Canadian girl here.
He also had children here and died here as one of his children is my grandfather. and I have the rest of the family history to now.
Now John Hulme Lightfoot & wife Ann I found in the Canadian LDS in pedigree. He may also have drop the John when he came or spelled Hume ( hulme). I believe he is a Uncle to James Lightfoot, dob: 10 May 1841.
Now I know that James has one sister that I have lost tract of . She was in Manchester in 1861 . Her name was Dorothy Lightfoot was baptized 05 May 1839. in Bowden Cheshire, England. She also had one child name Mary Ann Lightfoot who was born in 08 jan 1873. Dorothy was not married at that time.
They were all from Bowden Cheshire, England to the best of my knowledge.
I hope this give you everything anyone would need.
Thanks again.
Shirley
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well, I may have found your Dorothy?
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp
Bowdon, Cheshire, England - 1881
Peter SHAW 65 Labourer
Dorothy SHAW 34 Laundress
Annie LIGHTFOOT 14
James LIGHTFOOT 7
Peter SHAW 4
and if this is correct then:
Marriage 1876
Lightfoot Dorothy
Altrincham
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
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HMMMMMMMMMM...May have jumped the gun, I see, as the names and dates
of the children don't match...Sorry...It looked good in theory! J.J.
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http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp
in the 1881 Betty LIGHTFOOT 70 and neices, all 4 unmarried:
Mary GRESTY 47 Dorothy LIGHTFOOT 24
These are 3 all down as Bowdon except Elizabeth LIGHTFOOT 18
whose entry says "America" and naturally Canada is in North America...
I also realize this isn't your Dorothy, but thought it might find you some
new ancestors if correct.
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Hello J.J.,
Yes those names are in the 1881 Census Park Lane
Bowden. Elizabeth dob 02 Jul 1862 born in Nova Scotia, Canada and Dorothy dob 16 Nov 1856 ,Bowden, Cheshire, England taken from LDS.
These girls are Sister there parents are John Hume Lightfoot. who was Married to Ann , I believe was in Manchester. John and Ann had to come to Nova Scotia. Sometime between 1852 and 1862 as Elizabeth Ann Lightfoot was born here in 1862. Kings Co. Nova Scotia. But have been unable to find them in more than one census, 1861.
Therefore it appears that they went back to England sometime between 1862 and 1871 as John appears back in 1871 as a Widow in Church Brow Bowden Census.
But I am still not sure the Peter Shaw and Dorothy
Lightfoot is James ' sister as his Sister was born in 5 May 1839. and in the census it has 1881 Dorothy 34 which would make her 47. Although census sometimes makes mistakes.
These are puzzle I have is that in census 1841 H)107-91-17 P8 Bowden, there are the following.
James Lightfoot 77
John 31
Hulme 21
Betty 29
Mary Gresty 7
My question is, is the Hulme Lightfoot one and the same that is mr John Lightfoot in the 1871 Census at chruch Brow Bowden. or are they two seperate people.
Where has John from the 1841 census disappered to. He would have been born in 1810 according to that or there abouts. Where as (John) Hulme woud correspond with the Hulme guy. dob 1821 there abouts. also who is the parent of these is it that James at 77 in the 1841 Bowden, or who. To me it is unlikely that James 77 would be their parents. I have not been able to find. anything. Also Betty appears to be John and John Hulme of same census to be brother and sister or at least relatives..
Thanks for your help .
Shirley
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The time in Canada must be betw. 1856 (dorothy Eng.) and 1862 (Eliz. N.S.)
then left again between then and 1870...(if he was back for the '71)
Modified as information is gathered throughout the thread.....
Let's see if I have this right...from the IGI
John Hume: 1820?
William Lightfoot abt1805 -1852
& Mary ann ( Neild) Lightfoot abt 1807-1847
parents of:
Dorothy 1839 born & christened Bowdon, cheshire
James 1841
Mary Ann 1844 born & christened Bowdon, cheshire d.1845
Thomas 1846 born & christened Bowdon, cheshire d.1846
Then John Hume Lightfoot and Ann ( Shore) Lightfoot parents of:
1845 John Lloyd ( maybe )christened Hargrave, , Cheshire
1851 Samuel- born Altrincham - christened Bowdon, cheshire
1852 mary Esther - born Hale, Cheshire -christened Bowdon, cheshire
1856 Dorothy- christened Bowdon, cheshire
Then in Canada Elizabeth Ann 1862
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from 1841 / other sources /these are perhaps William's parents
James Lightfoot 77 abt 1764 d. 1847
(Dorothy already gone ) abt 1761 d.1838
John 31 abt 1810
Hulme 21 abt 1820
Betty 29 born 1811 d. 1882
Mary Gresty 7 about 1833/34
in the '51 William lightfoot is a widower age 46 ag/lab. Bowden
son James is down as born Bowden 1842
Robert Nield (brother to deceased wife Mary Ann)
- is a single agricultural labourer born 1810 in Bowden
on next page
John Lightfoot who is down as born 1810 Bowden is an agricultural labourer...
His sister Betty, down as born 1800 in Bowden
John's neice, Mary Gresty is down as born 1834 Dunham Massey
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Hello J.J.,
Well you got almost right.
William and Mary ann children are
Dorothy 1839
James 1841
Mary Ann 1844
Thomas 1846
now John Humes Lightfoot is an uncle to Dorothy, James, Mary Ann and Thomas.
I have no proof that John Hume is William brother, but f it looks that way, that is why I am trying to find out who James Lightfoot,dob: 1805, John Lightfoot dob 1810, John Hume Lightfoot 1821, and Betty born 1811 parents are.
But I thank you for the info on John.
Also I have check on LDS and it says nothing for James and I think that was just a mis understood . and as for the rest I will tell you what I found .
John Lloyd Lightfoot, christening 09 mar. 1845 Hargrave, Cheshire , England
Mary Esther Lightfoot christening 20 jun 1852, Bowden, Cheshire, England.
Samuel Lightfoot christening 27 Apr 1851 Bowden
Dorothy christenig 16 Nov. 1856. Bowden,
Elizabeth Ann Lightfoot dob 02-jul 1862 born Nova Scotia.
the space don't bought me as some people leave a space between having children. The only think is is John must have been born before they got married.
However on all the papers says that the children all belong to John and Ann.
I hope these correction, make it better for you to understand. I can see how someone could misundersstand it.
Thanks
Shirley
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Gotcha...almost....because the IGI says that the SECOND Dorothy belongs to John and Anne (so sister to james )
and that the first Dorothy belongs to Willian and Mary Ann, just as I have them...
Will change to brother...above...
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HELLO J.J.
Dorothy baptised 05 may 1839 is Willliam and Ann child , James ' sister.
John and Ann's child is Dorothy christening 16 Nov. 1856. I got this info from LDS and also from st. Mary's church in Bowden Cheshire, England.
take care
Shirley
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O.K. I see the change...so James is a nephew, not a son...
Now have I got it right? Changed above....
There is a John LIGHTFOOT 1881 British Census born...
1821 Bowdon, Cheshire, England who is married,
so he could have remarried , something to keep in mind...
and it surely goes with the rest of the time period, etc.
(& he is a brickmaker, like your James....what was John
doing on the census in Canada?)!)
Here is an interesting entry for you to look at...am wondering if this
is where the Hulme may have originated, as sometimes the wife's maiden surname is passed on through generations as a middle name, often for
the sons for some reason...( I have seen it several times in my British ancestors....Just a thought...) Come to think of it some daughters
in one family also had a Grandparents surname for a middle name...
Something to keep in your maybe files, anyway, one never knows!
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/LANCSGEN/2000-09/0969110775
Hmmm...come to think of it...that wouldn't be old enough to be an ancestor, here, would it?
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There's a James Lightfoot born 1765 Dunham, , Cheshire, England
on the IGI...Perhaps if you found the person who made this submission,
it could answer some questions about the 77yr. old in 1841.
Have you tried the rootschat Cheshire board in England? I bet that they
can find something on the previous generation before you know it...if you
ask the right questions and have what you know in order (keep it simple
for the first entry...
( What sounds perfectly fine to us, isn't always easy to decipher for others...)
Sometimes I read through entries but it doesn't always stick.. as you have
noticed...Thinking James was a son all along made the whole thing very
confusing for me...but I think I've got it right now...
( my first question to rootschat was put into the wrong district!
Haha...boy was my face red) Try Cheshire ....and if that doesn't work...
use the "general" board for England, as you never know who will have the information you need...but you will be amazed at the help you will receive!
Lots of Luck all around! J.J
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HELLOJ.J.
I have check with LDS, but their is no name for the submitter.
I thank you for your advise, As I will try and be more careful in the future.
Now can you tell me what the IGI is and where would I find it.
Also in the 1851 Census reading as:
1851 HO107-2162-F536 Altringham
Hulme Lightfoot head 30 brickmaker Bowden
Ann wife 34 Salford
Samuel H son 11 mths Altringham
Dorothy Lightfoot visitor 12 scholar Bowden
William Shore Visitor 23 print block manuf. Manchester.
Hulme Lightfoot married Ann Shore in Manchester 1848
Now my question is. where do I find her location of marriage.
I have looked in BMD and I was unable to find it, i also sent to Manchester Cathedral , in Manchester, and they told me I would have to know the parish.
Is there any place else I could looked to find out where.
Thanking you again for your help and kind advise.
Thanks
Shirley
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Did you know that some sites call Bowden the Parish for Altringham?
Not sure how those county/parish units work myself half the time when I search ancestors....
Just checked the new ancestry bmd and althought the later ones have more info on...all these have is the same info you already have...
So you need to go to the general England board as I see that Manchester isn't
on the child board list... Go back to top of page for the general link , scroll down
to the England - General (English family history not specific to a county.)
and start a new topic, giving the full names, dates of birth, & that you are looking for a marriage 1848 ....
(There were 2 Anne shore married in that same period in Manchester)
The subject line should read somethig along these lines, so that someone with
that information knows when and where you are looking...
Manchester / Marriage 1848
If not, you can always send to the GRO for the actual document, as you have the information...and more information of other ancestors may be on the document...
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
Good luck! ... J.J.
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Hello J.J.
Thank you very much for your help.
Shirley
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Wait...I have found something...here:
International Genealogical Index - British Isles
It says Ann shore married "John" Lightfoot in 1848
maybe he used his middle name for the census? More info here:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp
It says John on the BMD also...so this is John Hulme...
a name switcher!!!
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
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Hello again
Yes I just remember when I first seem his name he was using Hulme, although I also have seen it as Hume, and sometimes as John Hume Lightfoot . and it appears as if it is all the same. However, when I check it out on the BMD all I could see none that was married to a John or Hume or Hulme.
But maybe you are looking at something different.
Thanks
Shirley
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hint...don't always search the obvious....I always try all names involved, as databases can be funny that way...I ALWAYS put in less than what I know...
A very good genealogist taught me that "less is more" with databases...
so I seldom use exact dates...and often match only last names as givens are
so often reversed...as in your case and mine!!!
My family liked their middle names better!
So use Ann for the search and you will find it...
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Your exact dates and other info are on that I.G. I. listing...so I hope you checked it out!!!! Yes...use Ann Shore, as it won't be under Hulme...!
J.J.
Wait...I know what you are not doing on the BMD...you need to hit the blue number link to the right for a list of possible partners....
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Hello J.J.,
Well I tried the Free BMD, it got me excatly, I think what I need. it gave me John Lightfoot, and than when I click on the page it gave me Ann as well., as being on the same page.
Before I was looking in the Lancashire, and checking out Manchester their. When I did it that way it never came up. I guess they just haven't got them all in.
Thanks for Telling me about the Free BMD. I though they were both the same.
I have Email a person at Machester Cathedral where I had tried to order it before, but wasn't able to, the new info I Hope will do the trick and I will hear back soon.
Thanks again
Shirley
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Well, do remember to not put so much information in.... sometimes what we know
isn't what is there... My ancestor has different answers for his location of birth on
the censuses... I see that you can't get onto the Family search I.G.I. as it has been down fsince I replied. That is a wonderful site, and again...many things
must be tried to get the most out of what is on there...one kick at the tire is never enough :D
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Hello J.J.
Is I.G.I. the same as Free BMD or how do I get to it,
or is it apart of the LDS , if so I have tried that and I did get a print out of James Lightfoot 0, Dunham, Cheshire, England. but it didn't give any source or anything else. but I am going to try World wide family tree and see if there is anything their.
Thanks
Shirley
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Yes, the I.G.I is part of the LDS site, family search. I will see if I can find you some contacts when the site is back up! J.J.
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Thanks
shirley
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I tried to get back to where we were, on the igi or ancestral listings...and I can't even find the initial John Hume Lightfoot listing that got all this started...
i know I saw it, because it was the first listing I saw...
Can't find any with contributor's names, either and I was sure I saw one...
How is the searching into England going?
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HELLO J.J.
Yes, I tried to find him as well, but I believe Ann had died in around 1870 or so, I don't have the excate date at hand , but I believe that John got remarried and his name is in their with his new wife. However, if you put in his daughter's name Elizabeth Ann Lightfoot, it will come up under IGI, - LDS. and his aneme and Ann Shore will pop up. So its show that his daughter was born in 1862., therefore, he must have came to Canada between 1852 and 1862. He was back home in 1870 . But I have not been able to verify this, I am still trying though. He was only in Canadian Census one time. and back than it don't show who was living in that house at that time with him.
But I did order their marriage certificate and found out John father name was John Lightfoot and he was a labourer, It still don't give me much Info to find out his family though.
Thanks for replying though.
Shirley :D :P
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Did it give an age for him so that you can figure out which is John hulme and which is Hulme???
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HI J.J.,
John Hulme and Hulme is the same person born in 1820, Cheshire, England.
I guess sometimes he used both and some time. just Hulme.
There was another John Lightfoot but he was born around 1810 and he was a nephew as well. I don't know if they have the same father or not.
Thanks
Shirley
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If you ever findout who the James is, this may be his marriage...
James Lightfoot married Ann Smith on Feb. 25, 1794 at Dunham-Bowdon Par
Perhaps a brother to your John Sr. that you now know about?
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Hello J.J.,
Yes I have consider that, but I have not been able to find out anything on James. I did however, find out that Ann Smith parents are Samuel Smith abd Alice Evans .
But that is all I have been able to find out. I had email Derrick Murdie at St. Mary Archives for Bowdon Church, but he said he had nothing.
So I had email him and asked how I could get a List of all lightfoots in that area. i have not heard back.
Do you have any other suggestion.
Thanks
Shirley
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Here are children ( If born Cheshire) Born to James and Ann Lightfoot
Elizabeth Lightfoot 1795
Mary Lightfoot 1797
Hannah Lightfoot 1800
James Lightfoot 1802
Susanna Lightfoot 1809
Henry Lightfoot 1814
all christened at Holy Trinity, Chester, Cheshire
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hELLO J.J.,
Thanks ever so much as I wasn't able to get anything, I even try One World Tree, and found nothing.
That help me a lot now. I will be able to go back farther.
Do you know if any chance that they may have a nick name for Ann. like Dolly.
The reason why I asked is I had received info from the archives in Bowdon, that they had a Hannah who die on 30 aug. 1818 at the age of 22, and the parent was James and Dolley. Also their was a James age 23 and die on 23 Nov. 1824 no parent for him was mentioned. This seems it could be the same but the ages doesn't match. They had no other info on them.
Well I really appreciated the help and Thanks so very much. Shirley
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Hello J.J.
I was so excited that you found James Lightfoot that I jumped the gun.
The James Lightfoot has to have a son name William Lightfoot born about 1805. This one has a son name James, but not what I need.
So I am still lookingfor James Lightfoot, that has a son William about 1805.
So in your travels if you come across one you can let me know. It is possible if we find this james that one of the John Lightfoots maybe a brother.
Also if you see a James Lightfoot b 1769 and married a lady name Dorothy B: 1761. with children I would love that info as well.
It is also possible that the above is one of the john lightfoot parents.
thanks
shirely
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Oh, I am so confused...i thought you said that William and John's father was also a John...and that you weren't sure who the James in the 1851 was? Did I miss something since then, I guess? Haha...hard to follow sometimes, when there are so many other names in my head!!! J.J.
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Hi J.J.,
SORRY TO CONFUSE YOU. I will try and clarify it for you.
First their was James Lightfoot born 1769 d: 1848 and who married Dorothy somebody B 1761 died 1838. We don't know who their children are yet.
Possiblity , but dont know that John 1810, Betty, 1811, and William. but don't have no info to come to this conclusing except that they are all buried in the same grave yard, although at one end is James and his wife and betty and john , the other end of grave yard is William and his family.
The other thing is William's father name is James, but it is a common name so who knows.
Now we have William (1805)and wife MaryAnn (Nield) Lightfoot
children :
Dorothy 1839 Dorothy who has a child name Ann and also married Peter Shaw.
James 1841 my grandfather who married in Canada and Died in Canada.
Mary Ann 1844 who died 1845
Thomas 1846 died 1846
Now in the census 1841
There was John 31 abt 1810 Head of House
Betty 29 b: 1811 d 1882 Sister
John (Hulme) nephew
Now what we are looking for is William above born 1805 his father who is James abt. 1775 ?? likely Bowdon ,Cheshire.
Also I was told Most likely John and Betty , and William was all one family . Father James somebody.
Also John Hulme b 1820 his father who is John Lightfoot. is a possibilty a nephew to William Lightfoot.
I hope this clarify more helps.
Shirley
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will send what I found by p.m. as it makes it more confusing to add too many names to the thread...
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Good Morning J.J.,
Hello I am so sorry that you are confusied I went back and try to clarify it for you.
Thanks for the other but the father their is John,a Williams father is James, so thank won't work, but thanks a lot for your efford.
As you will see the names seems to match , but no proof.
thanks shirely
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Oh, you hadn't mentioned the 1841 relationship to head of house in the earlier posting. What was James down as, then? How did you find out that he was parent to William? I think you have found some answers, lately and thought that you had put them on here...
Did you ever make the Gresty connection? J.J.
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Hello J.J.,
Sorry , but we are not sure if James is the right James, we are only guessing. that he could be the father of Williams , since his father is James.
Derrick, at the archives, said it is a guess, but no proff. It was wher all these names came up together, and are buried in the same cemetery although not near each other.
now for Mary Gresty, all it say through the censys is a niece to Betty and John.
Other then that we know nothing.
That is why I have been searching to see who James and Dorothy kids were .
Also William's parents who is James as well. but cann't find anything.
Does this clear up any more.
shirley
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http://www.rbnw26613.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Cheshire_Surnames/l1.htm
Scroll down for surname in cheshire...they don't research for you, but maybe they may have something already researched....?
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http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp
You hadn't mentioned it, but do you have this one, as it is a Manchester
marriage, also. Not sure if it is yours, of course.
William Lightfoot
Mary Ann Neild
Married Nov. 21 1838
Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire,
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Hello J.J.,
Yes I do have it, I had order that as well, I also have their son's James birth certificate.
Yes, I have order any one that I though might help me get to the bottom, which is Williams ' Parents, but so far all I got was his Father James Lightfoot. live at Tailsworth. Which is not much.
But I thank you very much,
Shirley
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Hello J.J.,
Yes I had try tat web site before , but had nothing, but I will try it again you never know.
Thanks
Shirely
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http://www.historisches-zentrum-wuppertal.de/BaumwollBiblio.html#Location%20codes
If any of them were in the cotton industry, here is a site, covering Manchester as well as Cheshire. ( there are Lightfoots mentioned on the page, as well)
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HI J.J.,
Thanks a lot for the info on the Cotton Industries. I have read a lot but so far no luck but very interesting reading.
Now I did check out Barry Shaw, and unfornately we are not the same line. but he did give me some info on Peter s. and Dorothy , that they are both dead, and buried in the same cemetery as Dorothy parents .
But I will contact Derrick at the archives and see if he can help anymore on the other children.
So thanks again, and I will just keep looking . Who know maybe I will get it someday.
Thanks for all your hard work.
Shirely
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Shirley did you ever piece your family puzzle together? So much more information all these many years later...
Did you see Anne Elizabeth had an older brother born 1859 who must have died young?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XL5R-ZLP
I can't possibly digest this thread once again, but saw you had a question regarding Dolly as a nickname...It can be used for Dorothy, but for many other names as well...
always link to other threads on same topic, and fill in found info
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,100549.0.html