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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: philipsearching on Sunday 15 January 06 15:24 GMT (UK)
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My ancestors include many good honest people, but delving into the past has revealed some intriguing secrets. Including only the direct line from my parents to my great-great-great grandparents (so far I have found 49 out of a total of 62 ancestors back to 1825) I have discovered:
One suicide
One criminal conviction
Three alcoholics
Two illegitimate births
One bigamous marriage
One man supporting two families simultaneously
This does not include uncles and aunts - one of whom achieved notoriety by writing a novel banned for obscenity in the 1920s.
And I always thought my forebears were ordinary working class / lower middle class citizens! It's just as well I'm not famous - imagine that lot being paraded on "Who do you think you are"
Philip
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Hi Philip,
Just one illegitimate birth?! , both my maternal grandmother's line and paternal grandmother's line are littered with them. according to family stories my maternal grandmother's father was a bigamist, and guess what can't find him anywhere- best possibility so far was Gravesend Prison.
I love the thought of:
This does not include uncles and aunts - one of whom achieved notoriety by writing a novel banned for obscenity in the 1920s.
If you could get a copy I'm sure there would be a market for it on e-bay!!
Mark
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Fascinating stuff, Philip!
I only have a couple of bankrupts and a probable bigamist (haven't proved it yet) and a disappearer who may have been either a criminal or had a mental problem but goodness knows! I can't compete!
Makes it more interesting, anyway!
MarieC
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.....one more recent ancestor had a syphilitic aortic aneurysm...
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My biggest unresolved 'skeleton' surrounds my great great great grandfather, John Green (1836-1901).
After finding him and his family on the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses, I went onto 1871. I was unable to find him anywhere in the country so, working on the assumption he had died, I started to search for his widow or any of his children. I found them living in Howden, Yorkshire. Sure enough, his wife Mary was head of the household and a 'widow'. Whatsmore, the family had fallen on hard times as they were all claiming outdoor poor relief.
I then went onto to find Mary and the children in 1881. Then came the surprise - I found Mary and the children, but the head of the household wasn't Mary - it was the 'dead' John Green. It was definately him - same age, same job and cited as father of all the children. This situation was repeated in 1891 - John had come back to life.
If this wasn't enough, the 1901 census confused things further.
In 1901 John appears in the house of his 'sister' (a widow) called Ann Dickson. However, John doesn't have a sister called Ann.
Ann had several children, some with her surname, some with the surname 'Green'. This got me thinking - were these her illegitimate children born when her surname was Green (assuming she is his sister)? Or is it possible that Ann isn't his sister at all, and that the Green children are John's?
Why was he living in another town away from his family - this was more than just a visit, as he died there in late 1901.
As yet I haven't explored either mystery fully, though John is throwing up some real mysteries.
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Hmmm!
Simma, you have an enigma there! Sounds as though there could be a bigamous relationship, at least that is one possible explanation! You say he didn't have a sister Ann, so "sister" must be a euphemism for something else.
My gggrandfather is a bit similar. I found him on 1851 with his family, he disappeared in 1861 and 1871 (not in the country, apparently) and his wife was supporting herself in those years and listed as married. In 1881 she was a widow, with no sign of him. Like your ancestor - mysterious unsolved disappearance!!! ??? ::)
Good luck to both of us in finding these disappearing men!!
MarieC
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My gt grandfather, John Easton, was a lodger in a farm cottage in wiltshire in 1881, with a couple called Sheppard and thier children. In 1888, he married Mrs Sheppard, and they moved to London, but - get this - she left her baby behind! On the next census, John and Fanny Easton are living in Battersea, and the baby is living with his father, Mr Sheppard, still in Wiltshire! No idea why she would have chosen to do this, but the couple went on the have other kids, including my grandfather. :-\
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Hi Daisy,
I am also researching the same area of family at the moment - John easton is my great great grandfather. I have looked at various criminal records, and there are quite a few relating to 'Thomas Sheppard'. I'm not sure if it is the same Thomas Sheppard (there are a few in the area at that time), but wondering if Fanny perhaps had a reason to leave him!
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When I first started Family History research, about 30 years ago, I went to an evening class locally. I can clearly remember the lady taking it saying how she would more or less guarantee that as we all delved deeper into our ancestors we would all find a) illegitimacy b) a criminal c) emigration d) workhouse e)suicide f) non-conformism etc - there was quite a list!
Sure enough, I think I've found the lot!
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Yup me too...I absolutely love it when I unearth a skeleton! I have them in most, if not all of my lines However in two particular ones the skeletons are rife!!!
Line 1 - a suicide, illegitimacy left right and centre, transportation to austrailia
Line 2 - abusive husbands, drunkards, negligent mothers, waring families, illegitimacys, illegal boxing, affairs, theives, more drunkards and that many court appearances that I've lost count!
These are my favourite lines to follow x
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Compared to mine Philip, your tree is the height of domestic respectability; I was tempted to say Is that all? One highwayman (transported) 2 illegitimate births, and that is just his wife after his transportation, numerous convictions of various types; one suicide, and that is just my father's side from the 19th-early 20th century. Going into the 18th century, probable 3XGGM at least 8 children with 7 fathers; and never claimed off the parish! 2XGGM, at least 5 children with at least 4 fathers. We seem to have been more or less straight since then apart from the 19th century criminality; Oh and one likely Cof E clergyman. Could say every family has its black sheep!! (Just joking)
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Well, the suspected bigamist turned out not to be so, but I have two convicts who were transported to Australia - not for major crimes, and they made a good life for themselves here. Also French, Dutch and Irish ancestors in the Caribbean who were sugar planters and certainly slave owners, and probably treated their slaves badly, which was common practice then, sadly. And I have, not in my direct line, a man who murdered his uncle in a quarrel about a paltry matter and then went on the run - he was never brought to justice for this crime. As others have said, these are the colourful lines, and I enjoy having them to relieve the monotony of the respectable ones!
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Not everyone has the same view of who the black sheep of the family is :)
My great aunt (who died when I was 13) had no problem discussing ancestors such as the woman known as the first prositute of New Amsterdam (New York) and her even more colourful husband who was called 'the most hated man in the Dutch towns of Long Island' but there was one terrible ancestor she didn't like to mention. He was actually the brother of our ancestor and his crime was that he helped George Washington during the American Revolution and afterwards was rewarded by being appointed governor of New Jersey!
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A Lunatic (from syphilis)
Several illegitimate births (one my aunt, several from generations before - that side of the family are rife with them), one who claims to have had a 5 year pregnancy
A Murderer (sentenced to death penalty, deported, murdered someone got death penalty again, was excused and then got murdered himself - I suspect it was his own fault)
Several in the workhouse
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Just a small sample from the record of my 8x great-grandparents, the irrepressible John and Joane Andrews of Kittery, Maine [there was lots more]:
Oct.16, 1651
We present Joane Andrews, the wife of John Andrews for an infamous scould and a breaker of the peace and for Conteming Authority in abusing the Governor. It is ordered by this court that Joane Andrews is either forthwith to pay forty shillings fine, or else to receive corporall punishment by having 25 stripes upon the bare skine. John Andrews stands bound for his wifes appearance at the next court in the bond of tenn pounds, for her good behaviour."
"We present John Dymond & Joane Andrews for Suspition of incontinency. John Dimond Fined 40s and an act of Seperation is mayd in Court that John Dimond & Joane Andrews are not to Keep company one with another."
March 5, 1652
We present Joane Andrews for a Make bayte, making Contention & abusing Goody Mendum whereby shee forfited her bond upon her good behaviour, for which it is ordered that she is to have twenty Lashes with a whipp upon the bare skine." Joane had called Ms.Mendum 'an Indean Hoare'.
30 June 1653
Joane Andrews was in court for "abusing of a grand jury man per manly threatening and reviling speeches." (4)
Oct. 25,1653
Wee present Joane the wife of John Andrews for selling a firkine of butter to Mr. Nicholas Davis which had two stones In it contayneing foureteen pounds 2 oz in weight. This presentment owned by Joane Andrews, & John Andrews her husband is bound in a bond of five pounds that Joane his wife shall stand In a Towne Meeteing at yorke & In a Towne meeteing att Kittery till 2 Howres bee expired with her offence written upon a paper In Cappitall Letters pinned upon her forehead." On the same day, 25 Oct.1653, Thomas Withers presented testimony he said was given by Joane Andrews. Joane denied on oath giving that testimony.
June 29, 1654
Joane Andrews as itt in Court appeareth for stealeing of certen thinges from Mary Hayle in way of restitution is to restoore unto the sayd M:Hayle thyrty shillings & to pay in 20s to the County Treasury & 14s to the Constable, which shee refuseing itt is to bee ordered by the Court to have Corporall punishment.
6 July 1657
Wee present Joane Andrews the wife of John Andrews for frequenting the Company of Gowan Willson at unseasonable tymes at home & abroad very suspitiously to the great discontent of the wife of the said Willson. Witness Robert Wadleigh, Mis Gunnisson.
Joane Andrews stands alsoe bound on the forfiture of Tenn pounds by this Act of seperation made now by this Court not to come unseasonably nor suspitiously in Gowan Willson Company."
Wee present Joane Andrews the wife of John Andrews for threatening Goody Whitte at Yorke In a prufayne manner saiing that shee would sweare her self to the Divill but shee would bee avenged of her & shee sware 2 or thrise by the name of god in a profayne manner. Witness Frances Whitte, Magdeline Wiggin.
Wee present Joane Andrews the wife of John Andrews for Contempt of Authority In saiing shee Cared not a Toard for Rishworth nor any Magestrate in the world. Witness Frances Whitte, Magdeline Wiggin
Joane Andrews for her profayne sweareing & Contempt of authority is Censured by this Court to bee carried out to the post & to have Twenty Lashes given her on the bare skine.
1660
Joane Andrews was fined 10s for being overtaken in drinke.
June 12,1666
Wee present Joane Andrews for breaking of the Kings Peace. Joane Andrews for her offences is adjudged by the Court to bee carried to the poast & there to have 18 lashes on the bare skine. Which on the 16th day of this instant June were given to her by John Parker the pryson Keeper at Yorke whereby John Andrews is discharged from his bond of Tenn Pounds.
Wee Present John Andrews as an high offender against God, & for swearing by the life of God & blood of Christ, & that hee was beyond God & above the heavens & the stars, at which tyme the sayd Andrews did seeme to have drunke two much & did at that tyme Call those witness doggs, toads & hoores bird. Witness Edward Ball, George Palmer.
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When I first started Family History research, about 30 years ago, I went to an evening class locally. I can clearly remember the lady taking it saying how she would more or less guarantee that as we all delved deeper into our ancestors we would all find a) illegitimacy b) a criminal c) emigration d) workhouse e)suicide f) non-conformism etc - there was quite a list!
Sure enough, I think I've found the lot!
Not necessarily all in the direct lines, but I think I've got them all covered!
a) as recently as my grandmother's father, whom with some great help I found only last year,
b) 3x great grandfather was a convict sent out to Tasmania,
c) I'm Australian (say no more),
d) several instance of hard times,
e) one collateral ancestor put his head in the gas oven in 1945,
f) my Youatt ancestors were Unitarians.
And that's only one example of each!
So Philip, you're not alone. :)
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"my Youatt ancestors were Unitarians."
Um, since when would that be considered a skeleton?
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Not at all, Erato. I was replying to Lizdb's post with the list her tutor gave. Personally, I don't count any of the things in this thread as "skeletons".
As I have always told people when asking for information, "I'm not judging, just recording".
And for what it's worth, if I were to subscribe to any sort of belief, the Unitarian creed holds more truth than most.
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Illegitimacy and getting married just before the birth of a child is commonplace in my tree.
I have several lunatics and a couple of suicides. Also a gt x 3 uncle who ended up in Broadmoor after cutting his pregnant fiancee's throat with a cut-throat razor. It was his father that committed suicide the same way.
I don't think our ancestors were any worse or better than we are, they were just people, with failings and faults like us. Although I do also have a few churchwardens and a beadle in the family too!
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I am inclined to agree, I don't think it is reasonable to judge one age against the norms of another. Remember the 19th century is now almost 115 years in the past.
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If your family does not have skeletons then everyone must have been cremated.
Cheers
Guy
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;D ;D
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I love all my skeletons bigamists , convicts I think they would be the ones to have at a dinner party. Lots of interesting conversation. Take Care Lynette ;)
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I love all my skeletons bigamists , convicts I think they would be the ones to have at a dinner party. Lots of interesting conversation. Take Care Lynette ;)
But take care to nail everything down first! :D
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Sorry, pressed wrong button, didnt mean to post again
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Red Roger I thought of that after I posted I would have to count the cutlery. The one I would love at the dinner party would be my G G Grandfather he was in the English Navy and would have some great stories and could tell me how he got to Australia. Take Care Lynette :o
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An interesting thread. I love finding the skeletons.
My best find is the grandson of my Gt x 3 Grandfather. 4 times married. Murdered wife no 4 in USA 1882. Found Guilty. He himself was sprung from Jail by a Lynch mob and subsequently beaten to death by a hammer to his head! He also murdered a guy when he was in army. Served time in Jail and escaped. He was a wife beater, tried unsuccessfully to murder second wife. Was accused of poisoning his step father! A great deal was written about this evil b*****d. I have many articles etc.
As the family are prominent figures in the area today if I have been told they would not welcome my digging up the past. They prefer to sweep it under the carpet.
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Red Roger I thought of that after I posted I would have to count the cutlery. The one I would love at the dinner party would be my G G Grandfather he was in the English Navy and would have some great stories and could tell me how he got to Australia. Take Care Lynette :o
Lynette My favourite is my great grandfather's brother who was arrested for highway robbery in Lincolnshire in 1832. The day after the robbery he married a sister of one of his accomplices. The accomplices and my family seem to have been in contact for over 40 years! All 3 robbers were transported to Australia. My relative died in 1841, his few possessions were sold to pay for his funeral, value £4 approx! The funeral cost the state NSW around £5!
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So far I've found
* 1 Solitary Birth out of wedlock so far (super catholic fambam) in everyone from my folks gen back. But in my gen its a 50/50 split of married/unmarried.
* BUT Almost NO first births occuring 9+ months after marriage (ie everyone was knocked up already when they married - I often wonder where they managed to get pregnant... since sleepovers were not allowed in the parents house and there were no cars! There was a lot of outdoor activity in ye olden days)
* My great grandad and great grandma managed to marry 3 weeks before grandads birth (and by looks alone - my great grandad IS the father of grandad, a rootschatter suggested he may have been at sea)
* A cousin murdered (actually the killer convicted of manslaughter) by his wife. :'( Still a sore point some 40 years later.
* Great Great Grandad used his British India Privilidge to score young - sometimes terribly young - wives. A 17 year old when he was 30. A 13 year old when he was 41 :-[ . A 34 year old when he was 70.
One side of my family was very catholic, like, their Wills were all 'donate to this catholic thing and that catholic thing' and they really lived that kind of God fearing straight life, from what I can tell. Not found a lot of skeletons though I live in hope as thats where the skeletons are just better hidden!
Other side of my family is more colourful. But not found things like others yet, eg interesting court docs etc.
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It would all be very boring without the skeletons wouldn't it...we owe them so much ;D ;D ;D
Carol
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Harrisonhart, Remember that prior to 1929 the minimum age for a girl to marry was 12; 14 for a boy. We find this quite shocking today, but i do not believe it is possible historical data by today's ethos.
In my own tree one i do like is from my maternal grandmother, who was very religious and lived with us when i was a boy. She was very much for following the rules, though this did not stop her supporting the suffragette movement. However the case in mind was that her older sister had married a man a few years young than herself, she died, left him a widower, he remarried and the second wife died, so he remarried, this time to a younger sibling of my grandmother and her sister, forbidden both by judicial and canon law at that time (c1900) Guess who was a witness? my grandmother! She must have known, the only surprise to me is that she did not speak when the minister asked for impediments!!
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Yes most of us have them, the good the bad and the ugly. The two which have occupied quite a bit of my research time are the murderer who was fined a shilling and dismissed by the court, and the one who spent time in Newgate Prison for fraud. Turns out he was innocent and granted a pardon by Queen Victoria. Looks like he had been framed. Sadly, he did not live long afterwards.
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Two of my great-grandparents were illegitimate, and one of my great-great-great-grandfathers was a bigamist. However, the biggest shock of all to my staunchly Catholic family was that we have very, very distant Protestant ancestors. The horror!
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I've got a bit of the reverse - Anglican and Non-conformist families .... and deep in the past (not as far as the Reformation!) R.C. forbears on three lines!!
My ancestors were almost all so boring and respectable it seems - the middling sort, farmers, tradesmen, etc. A few seemed to have a few odd children with uncertain origins around, on one line but.... ah well, we can't all have exciting ancestry, can we?
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Keep at it ThrellfallYorky - I thought mine were boring but tucked away are all sorts of gems . . .