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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: anneymouse on Friday 13 January 06 17:31 GMT (UK)
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Do any exist? I am having a problem finding any reference to a Bank St (noted as address of birth informant)
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........... or, was Tonypandy ever considered part of Merthyr? I know a lot of gerrymandering went on :)
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TRY THIS OLD MAPS WEBSITE.
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/
THEY ARE PRESENTLY HAVING MAINTENANCE DONE TODAY BUT WELL WORTH LOOKING AT NORMALLY.
DAVE BOYCE
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Thanks Dave, I've bookmarked that :)
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IF YOU CONTACT MERTHYR TYDFIL LIBRARY THEY WILL PROBABLY BE ABLE TO TELL YOU FROM THEIR OLD MAPS THERE ASWELL.
IF THE STREET HAS BEEN REMNAMED OR DEMOLISHED LIKE MANY.
DAVE BOYCE
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........... or, was Tonypandy ever considered part of Merthyr? I know a lot of gerrymandering went on :)
Merthyr Tydfil is in the Cynon Valley. Tonypandy...which is very near to where I was born is in the Rhondda Valley.
Cas
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Merthyr Tydfil is in the Cynon Valley. Tonypandy...which is very near to where I was born is in the Rhondda Valley.
Cas
Merthyr Tydfil is not in the Cynon Valley, it is in the next valley over.
What year is your birth reference to Bank St ?
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Wherever it is, was it ever considered to be part of Merthyr anyone know?
the date is 1907, am still drawing blanks!
Cas, I got in touch with the library, but they gave me another addy to contact, I will let you know what occurs there :)
Thanks for your help guys xxx
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oops! was never any good at Geography !
No probs Ann..
Cas
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I don't recognise a Bank Street in Merthyr ???
We do have an area called Sunny Bank that used to contain a number of streets of terraced houses off the Brecon Road near Cyfarthfa Ironworks.
Next to Sunny Bank was Park Street - could it be Park instead of Bank Street?
If this is the address of the informant - could you let me know where the child was registered as being born or where the child is recorded as living on the 1891 census - might help me to narrow things down for you. :)
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Hi Nigel, I never thought about Sunny Bank, could be that the person at the registrars misheard and just put Bank. Funnily enough, my dad grew up in Brewery Street, and on the Merthyr photo site, there is a photo for Sunny Bank, and a photo for Brewery Street and they are the same!
The birth cert says that the informant was Louisa Thomas of 10 Bank Street, definately doesn't say Park Street.
Could you please look up 10 Sunny Bank St on the 1891 census? Thanks in advance :)
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10 Sunny Bank had a John & Mary Humphries as residents in 1891 - so no luck there :(
There are 4 Louisa Thomas on the 1891 census in Merthyr at
2 Iron Lane, Georgetown - born 1820, Bridgend
80, Gilfach Cynon, Twynyrodyn - born 1852, Merthyr
9, North St, Penydarren - born 1859, Merthyr &
Galon Uchaf Cottage - born 1875, Merthyr
What address is given for the birthplace of the child? If Louisa was a neighbour or living near that address, this may give us a clue? :)
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Thanks Nigel, I am pretty sure it says Bank Street though, trouble is, the birthplace, and the address of the informant, are both 10 Bank Street :( If it is Park Street, they wrote some strange P's :-0
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Same address - aargh - how frustrating! ::)
Re the child recorded on the birth cert - have you managed to find him/her on the 1901 census?
I have a copy of a large scale OS map of Merthyr from 1875 that gives street names so finding out where the child or his/her family were living in 1901 might help me narrow down the search :)
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Oh wow! that would certainly help! Unfortunately, he wasn't born until 1907. The closest I can get to his mother (Ellen Jane Thomas) was a family that lived in Jones Street in 1901 (why do people have to move!!) Trouble is, with someone called Louisa living in the same house, and registering the birth, one would imagine that she is a sister or mother to Ellen Jane, but her name isn't in the Jones St Thomas family. I am wondering though, if Louisa might have just not been at home in 1901. Not only is it like finding a needle in a haystack, but I think someone forgot to chuck the needle in :s
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Can you post the details you found on the 1901 census for Ellen Jane Thomas. How old is she - parent/sibling names - ages etc.
The only Ellen Thomas I can find that could be suitable is living in John Street.
Just in case - do you have the marriage details for Ellen Jane as well - who does she marry - where is he recorded as living - what's his father's name and occupation.
If you give me as much info as possible it'll help me narrow things down
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HI again Nigel, I can't get any information back past Ellen Jane :( I just keep hitting brick walls, the only way I got her name was through my grandad's birth certificate :( I don't know if she did marry, or who she married even :(
Down_under found a suitable Ellen Jane here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,119066.0.html
But there is no Louisa in the family unit - so frustrating!
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OK - so is there no father's name on your grandfather's birth certificate? If there is a name, I can look for a marriage record to see if this will help. :)
Re the family in Ystradyfodwg - BMDs were registered in Pontypridd by that time so if the birth cert you have says Merthyr that excludes that family.
To clarify BMDs for Ystradyfodwg were recorded in Merthyr between 1837 & 1863 - at that point they transferred to Pontypridd.
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Thats right Nigel, grandad had no father recorded, thats why it is proving almost impossible to go back beyond him. I have applied for his marriage certificate though, and fingers crossed it will contain the name of his father, once I get that, I can start looking for the marriage to Ellen Jane, at present she doesn't seem to exist :(
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How frustrating! Hope the marriage certificate will help! Let me know when it arrives :)
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Nigel, it gets worse, the my grandparents marriage certificate has just arrived, and Joseph's father is left blank (just like his birth certificate grrrr) I am so desperate to know this man's name! The only other chance I have is by finding the birth certificate of Joseph's brother William, who I am guessing was born between 1907 and 1917. Do lucky breaks ever happen????!!!!!
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I've found Bank Street ;D
It was a street leading off Park Street off the Brecon Road. Curiously (on the 1901 Census) the addresses go 1-23 Park Street -> 1-4 Tabernacle Court -> Tabernacle Chapel & then starts at 6 Bank Street!
Brewery Street (where your dad grew up) is listed just before Park Street so it seems that this is the area that your family must have lived for quite some time.
Living at number 10 Bank St is an Irish family - John & Ellen Dwyer - both born Ireland - John is Limestone Quarryman. Also resident are their children Bridget 20, Timothy 18, Alice 15, John 12, Arthur 11, Agnes 9 & Willie 6. All children born Merthyr.
{I've included the details in case this rings any bells}
Now the Ellen Thomas you found in Jones Court in 1891 - are you sure this is your Ellen? Have you tracked down her birth cert to verify name of father?
The reason I ask is that Louisa Thomas may be her paternal grandmother or one of her brother's wives. So if this is the right family I can trace them back and check to see if there is a Louisa who marries into the family or if her father's mother was a Louisa.
Does that make sense ???
Just editting this as you posted as I was posting!
I have a similar situation and to be honest it's nigh on impossible as there is no guarantee that his brother had the same father. If the space is blank on the marriage certificate it implies that your Grandfather didn't even know who his father was!
Your best bet is concentrating on Ellen's family - trace them back in case any more clues crop up. Keep smiling! :D
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I've found Bank Street ;D
yay! seems YOU are my lucky break!!
It was a street leading off Park Street off the Brecon Road. Curiously (on the 1901 Census) the addresses go 1-23 Park Street -> 1-4 Tabernacle Court -> Tabernacle Chapel & then starts at 6 Bank Street!
Brewery Street (where your dad grew up) is listed just before Park Street so it seems that this is the area that your family must have lived for quite some time.
Living at number 10 Bank St is an Irish family - John & Ellen Dwyer - both born Ireland - John is Limestone Quarryman. Also resident are their children Bridget 20, Timothy 18, Alice 15, John 12, Arthur 11, Agnes 9 & Willie 6. All children born Merthyr.
{I've included the details in case this rings any bells}
oh grrrr, they must have moved out, and Ellen in between 1901 and 1907 - again, why can't people stay put!!!!!
Now the Ellen Thomas you found in Jones Court in 1891 - are you sure this is your Ellen? Have you tracked down her birth cert to verify name of father?
The reason I ask is that Louisa Thomas may be her paternal grandmother or one of her brother's wives. So if this is the right family I can trace them back and check to see if there is a Louisa who marries into the family or if her father's mother was a Louisa.
Does that make sense ???
It does make sense Nigel, but I have no way of verifing Ellen's father, until I get her marriage certificate, and I can't do that till I have found out Josephs dad's name ;D (gotta laugh!)
I have a similar situation and to be honest it's nigh on impossible as there is no guarantee that his brother had the same father. If the space is blank on the marriage certificate it implies that your Grandfather didn't even know who his father was!
I know :( thing is though, my dad, his brothers and sisters all remember their 'grandad' and whilst I don't really think he was Joe's dad, he was almost certainly married to Ellen at some point, and is father to William. Even if he wasn't Joe's biological father, he was a wonderful grandfather to Joe's kids - I am even still using his garden fork :) I stare at his photo and ask him to tell me who he his!!
Your best bet is concentrating on Ellen's family - trace them back in case any more clues crop up. Keep smiling! :D
But even Ellen's family seems to have reached a stalemate position.
On a lighter note, I found out my maternal great grandpa's name today :)
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Probably best to get Joseph's birth cert BUT was Joseph's surname Thomas?? Any idea when he was born?
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I do have Joseph's birth cert Nigel, he took his mother's name of Thomas, no father recorded :( What to do?! If I could find anything about William, I might get someplace, but he would not be on the 1901 census (not yet born) and all I know is he died a few years back in a mental institution in Cardiff or Swansea - someone forgot to throw the needle in again!
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Sorry I meant his brother William's birth cert. Any idea how old he was when he died?
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From what I can gather, he was in his eighties, and it wasn't too many years ago - he was actually incarcerated from the age of 14, for chopping the thumb off the bloke we are seeking!!
Trouble is, he might have a different surname to Joseph, if Ellen married, which I think she did, there was talk that she became Mrs Moore.
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There is a marriage for an Ellen Jane Thomas in Merthyr Tydfil - March Quarter 1908 - Vol 11a Pg 985.
4 marriages listed on the same page
Rachel Davies
Evan Price Lewis
Evan Benjamin Powell
Ellen Jane Thomas
A possibility ??
EDIT - Most likely suspects on 1901 census
Evan Price Lewis living in Gellifaelog (Penydarren) - Miner b1882
Evan B Powell living Church St, Penydarren - Miner b1869 (still single in 1901) &
Evan Powell living Cross Mardy St (Mt Hare - top of Twyn) - Miner - b1884
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Nigel, I am pretty certain that has to be 'our' Ellen, as there were very few with the name Ellen Jane, but my dad seemed to think his grandfather was Italian, he remembers him going off to Italy often to visit his brother. He remembers him singing in Latin too (prayers I think) By my dad's account (which is hardly to be believed!!!) he also changed his name at some point to something more palatable to the Welsh - he seems to think Moore - I'm not sure myself. Do you ever scream at photos??!!
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I've checked all Ellen or Ellen Jane Thomas marriages up until 1915 - none with "foreign" names or the surname Moore registered in Merthyr district
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:'( unless she never married :'( I guess my only hope now then is to trace William, I have this vision of me ringing all the mental hospitals in Wales saying "did you have a William who chopped off his grandfathers thumb circa 1922?" Should I just give up? Or post his pic and see if anyone recognises him ;D
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breaking news!! apparently, this Italian man was in the Army and went all over the world, including fighting in Russia and France. He had a box full of medals which I am sure will be searchable once I know the person's name.
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Hello, all frustrated Merthyrsearchers,
Struggling to find more about my gggrandpa Davies (may have been a William) who had a tailor/or maybe drapery business in Church St, Merthyr around the mid 19th century. I think it was at no. 4 in that road.
Does anyone know if the road still exists? Or if there's any website where I can do a search for a person by giving their address? I don't have any other info about him, except that he was a church elder @ "Hope Church" in Merthyr.
His children were (not in this order) Elisabeth, Hannah, William, Henrietta, Mary, ...
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Church Street still exists today - see
http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/churchstreet.htm
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Thanks for that, Nigel.
I enjoyed looking at the old photos! Does anyone know if one of those big buildings in Church St, Merthyr could be "Hope Church", or otherwise where their records might be please?
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Go to this page
http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/highstreet_page2.htm
Scroll down the page - you'll find a picture of the old (picture 18) and new (picture 19) Hope Chapel that was situated on Merthyr High St - literally a few streets over from Church St.
Also look at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/MerthyrTydfil/Chapels.html.
I'd contact Merthyr Library to check re further info & possible parish registers for Hope as well - library.services@merthyr.gov.uk . :)
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Nigel,
Thanks for all the very useful information, I'll go on hunting!
Does anyone ever find a Davies in Merthyr?!
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I think I've found your William Davies - send me a PM and I'll give you what details I have :)
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Hello Nigel,
Haven't a clue, never having done PMs, don't quite trust them! Please email me @ w1ndym1ller@dsl.pipex.com
Thanks very much.