RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Herefordshire => Topic started by: Potatoes on Thursday 12 January 06 12:17 GMT (UK)
-
George and Harriet Hackford farmers at Overdine. Would be in their 50s when they appear at this farm on the 1901 census. Resident with them are Rhoda and Ada - daughters. The eldest daughter is Ruth who is married to a man called (George or Arthur)Walker with two baby son's Rumply and Dudley Walker. Ruth and her husband were running a boarding house on Cinderhill Rd, Kidderminster per 1901 census. Ruth was about 30 and her husband was 60+ !!
I am interested in
a) ancestors of George and Harriet Hackford.
b) any information about Ruth Hackford. She is my great grandmother. In 1896 she had a son Reginald Hackford Walker illegitimately in a servant/master scenario. Ruth is shown as married to Walker (then a Birmingham fruit dealer) on Reginald's birth cert. This is not correct. Ruth did not marry Mr.Walker until c1898. So Rumply and Dudley are Mr.Walker's sons and Reginald was the son of another man. Reginald was fostered out to William and Emma or Emily Passey who lived in Lower Mitton, Stroud and were childless themselves. Here Reginald was known as Reginald Hackford Passey and is shown on the 1901 census as an adopted son! However Reginald lived as a Walker in his adult life and told his family that he was illegitimate. I do know that his mother was working as a parlour maid in 1891 for an estate agent called Greene in Bromley, Kent per 1891 census. The Greene family ran estate agencies in London which I believe is where they were from originally. In the 1891 census they had a nine year old son called Reginald Greene. In 1896 is it possible that that a 14 year old Reginald Greene had a liaison with a 25 year old parlour maid. Yes it is. But it could also be that could also be that Ruth liked the name Reginald so gave it to her own her son. I do not know if Ruth was still in the employ of the Greene family in 1896; my grandfather must have been conceived c Feb 1896 in order to born in Nov 1896.
Reginald Hackford Walker is my grandfather. He told me that he never met his mother in his life. He also told me that when he was small that his natural father did visit him once. He arrived by car!! The man got out of the back of the car wearing a top hat and gave him some sweets. Money was settled on Reginald to raise him in a manner as would befit his father. Papers did exist until about 1959 but Reginald burnt them when his wife died. There is a suggestion that his foster/adoptive father William Passey embezzled the money. William Passey was a drinker and burnt the house down accidently whilst inebriated. Reginald did have a high regard for his foster/adoptive mother. She may have died leaving Reginald alone with William. Reginald ran away and worked on a coal ship or boat whilst a teenager before enlisting in WWI. At some point he dropped the name Passey and became known as Walker inline with his birth certificate. Also Reginald had an abhorrence of alcohol because of his experience with William Passey.
-
In 1891 they are in Woolhope
George aged 55 born in Lugwardine
Harriet aged 55 born in Kingstone
aslo in Woolhope are shown
Elizabeth aged 28 born Little Dewchurch
Ada aged 12 born in Withington
Anne 2 born Sollars Hope
Mary A 6 born ..
William G born ..
Thomas 4 born Woolhope
-
George Hackford was born in 12 JUL 1835 Lugwardine to Ann Hackford [no father is mentioned on IGI]
In 1851 George John Hackford aged 15 is in Mordiford
On 1881 census they are at Wellington Village
George HACKFORD 43 born Lugwardine, Ag Lab
Harriet HACKFORD Wife 43 b Kingstone,
Ruth HACKFORD Dau 11 b Wellington, Scholar
Rhoda HACKFORD Dau 9 b Wellington,
Ada HACKFORD Dau 2 b Wellington
they also had a lodger
-
Dear EBN,
Thankyou for your help. I think George Hackford moved around during his life as a farmer. Today we tend to think that farmers always stay put on the farm where they were born.
I don't think the name Hackford is that common in Herefordshire. Random searches often show Hackfords in the Norfolk/Cambridge/East Anglia area.
Many Thanks.
-
The ones I listed are the only ones in Herefordshire on the 1891 Census.
Any idea how they fit into your family tree ?
Ada is identifiable, but what about Elizabeth and the children who was she ???
Geroge John is what he was baptised and shows on the 1851 census, so why did he drop the John after that I wonder.
Has anyone got the 1861 and 1871 census for Herefordshire to check on his whereabouts then. And also the 1841, was he with his mother then, and did she marry ? He seems to have moved about working as an agricultural labourer around Herefordshire.
Do you have a copy of the marriage certificate from the Hereford Register Office which will give more details of Harriet's maiden name and fathers will be shown if given. ?
-
Thanks EBN
I'm not sure about the Elizabeth and the other children. Could she be a sister or sister-in-law with her children? I'm not sure. I don't think they are in my line of immediate descent although they may be a branch.
I think that now I'm going to contact the Herefordshire Registrar.
Many thanks
-
Address
Hereford Register Office
County Buildings
Bath Street
Hereford HR1 2HQ
-
I am a direct descendent of Elizabeth Hackford, Anne (Annie Laurie) was my Gt Grandmother who died when I was 18. William George was my Gt Gt uncle, and so was Thomas Henry.
Elizabeth Hackford went back to live in Sollers Hope, about 1892,and married william Gammond, they had two other children (one, Rose died at about 5 years old).
Elizabeth died aged 35 in June 1898.
I am currently trying to research all branches of the Hackford family. :)
-
Hello Sheryl,
Thanks to EBN who posted on this chat earlier I realised there was an Elizabeth Hackford in the picture. Anne, your great-grandmother was the the daughter of Elizabeth and the granddaughter of George and Harriet Hackford. Have I understood correctly?.
I am the great-granddaughter of Ruth Hackford ( gr. gr. granddaughter of George Hackford. Have you read my first posting and if so have you ever heard a story of an illegitimate birth in the family.
I think that Hackfords are uncommon in Herefordshire. They seem to be more common in East Anglia. There is a Hackford village in Norfolk. Perhaps the Herefordshire Hackfords are ultimately East Anglian. :)
-
The Hackfords do seem to be uncommon in Herefordshire, I've only traced as far back as Elizabeth at the moment, as I've had to trace the Clarke's (who my Gt Grandmother married into) and the Brookes's (who Annie's daughter married into, my grandparents).
I appear to be pure Herefordshire in my ancestory.
I have found one rather notorious Hereford Hackford...but I draw a blank on his history....google 'Hereford Dick'...he was a bare knuckle fighter, and escaped from Hereford prison. I have a feeling, that once I research some more into the Hackford's, he will be a member of 'our family'. :o
I'll carry on with my researching, and will pop back to let you know how things are going.
I think the illegitimate birth/s might be related to 'my Elizabeth'.....my Grandma NEVER divulged her birth name to any of us, her and her brothers took on their step fathers name, it was only when she died we discovered she had a different birth name.
I'm going to send for my Grandma's birth certificate to try and find out more. As soon as I know anything I'll let you know. :)
-
Hackford, Mary A abt 1885 Sollers Hope, Herefordshire, Granddaughter Woolhope.
Have just found the above...Elizabeth lived in Sollers Hope for a number of years too, but never had a daughter called Mary, maybe Mary was her sister or neice? :o
The plot thickens.... LOL
-
Have done some more researching.
the 1871 census shows George Hackford Head of family,
Harriet his wife
George son born in 1861
Ruth daughter
Ephraim son.
George jnr married in 1883 (same year as my Gt Gt Grandmother Elizabeth....who became a Hackford in the same month)
They split up in around 1990, after the birth of younger son (Thomas Henry) Elizabeth went on to re marry in 1895, the same year that George re married.
I will send for the marriage certificate, but I'm 90% convinced that you and I are 5th cousins (or 6th).
Ada, the youngest Hackford doesn't appear until the 1891 census, after Ruth, George and Ephraim have all left home.
Let's just hope Richard Hackford (Hereford Dick) isn't part of the same family. ;) ;D
-
Hello Sheryl,
This is amazingly interesting for me. Ruth Hackford has always been a mystery to me until fairly recently. But with various census I found her quite easily( 1871-1901). I can't wait for 1911 to become available?
I was really interested to hear that George jnr and Elizabeth split up and that she remarried. Could this have happened legally in the 1890's? My findings regarding my grandfather's birth certificate and his mother's later date for marriage to the man who was "supposed" to be grandad's father, may show that people were prepared to run the risk of making illegal declarations, rather than run the risk of not being "respectable".
I hope we are related to Hereford Dick, he sounds like quite a character.
The other thing I've wondered is if George Hackford senior and Harriet were religious because of their preference for bible names for their children.
These websites may be of interest -
www.south-wales.police.uk/fe/master.asp?nl=8&n2=2532n3=379 This page refers to Hereford Dick and includes a photo. I've literally just googled this in the past 5 minutes!
This second website refers to George snr and Harriet. I've had this one for a while -
www.archenfield.com/Trackways%202.htm
The photo is of George's landlord.
Best Wishes
Karen
-
Hi Karen.
Thanks for the links, It really is so interesting to find out all this extra information. I feel really 'in touch' with our ancestors now, especially as the Hackford side was kept so secretive for so many years.
I was chatting to my mom, and she has been going through my grandma's (Annie) 'diary' (a book of family births etc.,) and remembering snippets of info passed to us through the generations, I'm very lucky in that I spent most of my childhood with my Grandma (and Uncle Will lived with us) in Ross on Wye.
And from what we can glean, although we didn't know the Hackford surname before. Thomas Henry (the 4 month old baby in the 1891 census) was actually the son of William Gammond, although my Grandma and Uncle Will were George's children. So it looks as if George and Elizabeth were divorced (perhaps on her infidelity, or maybe he had already left her and then she got with William Gammond).
There seems to be a 6 year gap from Thomas Henry's conception/birth to when both Elizabeth and George remarried the others, perhaps they had to wait that long for a divorce?
As William Gammond, and the Gammond family, owned a few farms, and had servants, perhaps this is where the illigitimate child of master/servant rumour came from. I know the story has come down our branch of the family, and it looks as if it has come down your side too. I think we must have rather 'racy' ancestors. ;D
I'll continue questioning my mom, and looking at all the sites I've joined, I've managed to view many birth/wedding/death records. And last night I found Annie's husbands military record and his two brothers too (all three were killed in WW1).
I'll see what else I can find out about Ruth for you, and let you know.
I seem to be running into a dead end with Richard Hackford (Hereford Dick) perhaps he isn't on the census's as he was in prison quite a lot.
Take care and hope to find out more for you,
Sheryl :)
-
Hi Karen,
Think I might have found Richard Hackford, the age would be correct if we go by the information on the police museum site. In 1871 he was living with his wife Ellen, his dob is said to be about 1813. Then in 1881 he is living at the Gardeners arms Llanwenarth, Monmouthshire.
His place of birth is Lugwardine, Herefordshire....the same place as George Snr. Perhaps they were brothers?
Best regards
Sheryl :)
-
Have you asked the Hereford Family History Society on this.
They may have transcriptions of the Lugwardine Parish registers for birth records, and may have some details on people of notoriety in Hereford. :)
Sounds all very exciting and most interesting.
-
Thanks EBN, I will try there, it certainly is exciting to find out all this information.
Little wonder my Grandma kept me in the dark.... ;D
Prison, divorce, illigitimate births....not quite what I expected to find. ;)
The past feels so much more 'real' to me now, and how wierd I happened upon this chat forum and found Karen, who's Gt Grandma appears to be my Gt Gt Gt Aunt.
-
Hereford Family History Sciety sec :
Mr. B. Prosser,
6 Birch Meadow,
Gosmore Road,
Clehonger, Hereford HR2 9RH
-
Thankyou SO much, EBN, and strangely when I lived with Grandma in Ross, we had a neighbour called Mrs Prosser :)
Am presently trying to research the 1871 census, trying to find out the maiden name of Elizabeth, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Hopefully Mr Prosser will be able to help both myself and Karen fit together a few more pieces of the puzzle. :)
-
If you know George married Elizabeth in 1883 then try Hereford Regsiter Office for the marriage certificate, and then you will also have her father's name too.
-
Hi EBN,
By putting in Elizabeth's first name, DOB and area I've managed to trace her family back to 1861.
Her maiden name was Powell and she was an only child, her father was a stone mason. He seemed to have spent his entire life in Little Dewchurch.
I'm off now to try and find out more about George.
Must update my list of family.
Thanks for all the info and help,
Regards,
Sheryl :)
-
On the IGI a marriage is shown between Geroge Hackford and Bessie Powell
17/4/1883 Hereford St Nicholas. Father William Powell
Interesting to know she was called Bessie makes her more intersting .
-
WOW, thanks so much again, EBM, they are becoming more real by the hour.
And it confirms that Ruth's brother George married my Gt Gt Grandmother.
The divorce must have been a bit of a scandal in those days. :o
-
Thanks EBN
Hello Sheryl,
So we now have four notorious relatives, Ruth Hackford the mother of an illegitimate son, George and Elizabeth Hackford the "divorcees" and Richard Hackford the criminal. When I realised that Richard had pulled a knife in the police officer he was lowered in my estimation.
One interesting point George snr was born in 1835 to Anne per one of EBN earlier posts. Richard is said to have been born in 1813. That makes for a 22 year age gap between brothers! That's by no means impossible but could it be that they were nephew and uncle?
If Richard Hackford was in gaol at the time of the 1901 census he would still have to be listed.
The juicy bit about Ruth's son was common knowledge amongst his children (my mum and her siblings), that he was illegitimate. Reginald died aged 90 in 1986 when I was 23. On his 90th birthday, despite being shown a birth cert showing Arthur Walker to be his dad, he was still insistent that he was illegitimate - no small matter for someone of his era!!!!
Ruth went on to have at least 2 more sons with Arthur Walker. We never knew about these until I found them on the 1901 census.
Ruth was living with Arthur and her two little boys Dudley and Rumply aged under 3 in Kidderminster running a boarding house. In the meantime Reginald Hackford Walker, her illegitimate son, was living in Lower Mitton under the name of his foster parents. He appears on the 1901 census as Reginald Hackford Passey aged 4.
The family story was that Reginald was the illegitimate son of an earl and until 1959 there was supporting vellum documents with red seals supporting this as "fact". Reginald destroyed the items upon his wife's death. My late mother had seen the the documents when she was a girl. They were handwritten in copperplate style. She did manage to decipher one bit which said that Reginald was to be educated in the manner of a gentleman as would have befitted his father. This never happened because his foster father William Passey was said to have been a drinker, who both violently abused Reginald as he grew up and embezzled his trust fund - somehow. Reginald did love his foster mother but when she died Reginald ran away. Reginald lived a difficult life and was a difficult person for anyone to deal with - all due to his early life, his WWI experiences and his financial struggles in the 1930s. He was very well read and extremely articulate he had risen to be an army officer after the war but struggled with authority something which blighted him all his life.
All the best
Karen
-
Hi Karen,
We are managing (with the help of EBN, much appreciated) to build up quite a family history.
My mom has told me there were family rumours about some member of Grandma's family being illegitimate and half gentry, so it must have been Ruth's son, Reginald, who would have been my Grandma's cousin.
My mom has also told me that both Grandma and Uncle Will, inherited some property in the 1960's. That couldn't have come from the Gammonds, or the Powell's, because Thomas and Fanny would have inherited some too.
So I'm assuming the property must have come from the Hackfords.
I've done a bit more research on Richard and George Snr....same area of birth and also same names for parents (although mother Ann was spelt Anne on one record). I suppose they could have had Richard in their early 20's and then had George Snr in their early 40's, I have noticed large age gaps, and children being born to parents in their 40's on all sides of my ancestry.
I'll pry a little more re Reginald, see if between us we can find some hard evidence. I suppose no-one could say our family history is boring. ;)
I haven't been this absorbed in a subject since I graduated (many years ago) from uni.
Take care,
Best wishes, Sheryl :)
-
Hello Sheryl,
I googled a Hackford Farm on the outskirts of Staunton On Wye. Per the web site, it is a post medieval (1540-1899) dwelling.
www.smr.herefordshire.gov.uk/db.php/p/parish_Staunton%20on%Wye/p/period_Post%20Medieval/type_Dwelling - 62k - Supplemental Result -
AND
a pdf of Conservation walks at
cwr.defra.gov.uk/DisplayImage. aspx?Type=Mapboard&IFN=172280002.pdf - Supplemental Result
The Herefordshire Hackfords may be the original farm owners. Or they could be the descendants of labourers who worked on the farm, who upon leaving, were referred to by the name of their previous abode "Hackford" farm.
-
Hi Karen,
Thanks for the above info, I'm still totally amazed at how much we are finding out. My mom just phoned me, and has found a reference to Reginald in Grandma's note book, but she said it is really faint and she can hardly read it, but she thinks it might be November 8th 1896/7. I'll have a proper look at the book when I next visit my mom, hopefully I can find out even more.
Best regards,
Sheryl :)
-
Reginald's date of birth was 5th November 1896. He died on 17th November 1986.
I'm speechless.
Karen
-
I'm speechless too, it's amazing how much we are finding out.
Hopefully, I'll find out more names and dates from my Grandma's book. :)
-
hi, my name is Lauren Hackford, and I reside in Buffalo, NY USA.
I've recently been trying to find the origins of my family, and i stumbled across this message board. is there a permanant link to the hackford family tree, and if so, could you direct it towards me?
thank you very much!
Lauren
hackforl@canisius.edu
-
Hi Lauren, has my reply reached you on your personal messages? Best Wishes Karen :)
Hi Sheryl, it's been a while since all the excitement in the New Year about the Hackfords. I wondered if you had been able to look at the family 'diary' held by your mum. Best Wishes, Karen :)