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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) => Topic started by: skb on Tuesday 10 January 06 20:43 GMT (UK)
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My great grandfather, John HOLMES, moved around a bit.
In 1851 he was living in Salford Lancashire. He gave his age as 30, his occupation as Hemp Dresser journeyman and birthplace as Yorkshire Rockcliff
In 1861 he was living in Birmingham. He gave his age as 35, his occupation as Hemp Dresser and birthplace as Yorkshire Rockliffe
Can anyone suggest where Rockcliff or Rockliffe might be? I have no idea which Riding it would be in.
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skb,
You're not going to like this, but...
There is apparently no Rockcliffe or Rockliffe anywhere in Yorkshire (but I stand to be corrected if someone can find one!)
There is a Rockliffe "village on the south side of Bacup, East Lancs" (from Bartholomew's Gazetteer). There are others around the country.
However, a search on MultiMap reveals that there are a Roecliffe and two Rawcliffes in Yorkshire.
How certain are you that the censuses spell it as you have written?
I have come across some very strange spellings by enumerators who were struggling with someone's accent, so this might be the explanation. And they don't always get the country right either.
Jon
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Thanks for your thoughts Jon.
The 1861 definitely says "Yorkshire Rockliffe". My 1851 information is from a transcript of the water-damaged census (the only version available to the public), and says "Yorkshire Rockcliff". So I assume that "Yorkshire" is correct. As for the Rockcliff/Rockliffe, then as you say, the enumerator will have written it as he heard it. So is it more likely to be Roecliffe or Rawcliffe with a Yorkshire accent?
Can anyone supply a fragment of information which might help?
Was the Bacup area ever part of Yorkshire?
Was there a rope making industry in a particular part of Yorkshire?
Was there any significant migration from parts of Yorkshire to Manchester or Birmingham?
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Could there be some confusion along the way - ther is/was a Yorkshire street in bacup
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Hi SKB- think I might have come up with something-fingers crossed!
Have been googling like mad- first came up with a documnet at Nottingham uni refering to the Manor of Rockcliffe, Yorks dated 1797- eventually went to Genuki (why do I always forget about it?) Loftus (North Yorks in 1800's )9 miles E.N.E of Guisborough. The manor of Loftus included Hinderwell,Balby,Easington,Liverton,Guisborough,ROCKCLIFFE,Upleatham, Marske,Kirkleatham,Lazenby & Lackenby. Loftus is about 4 miles up the coast (& then a tidgey bit inland) from Staithes which used to be a busy fishing port, I think Captain Cook was born there but could be wrong!) . Boats = Rope makers...... what do you think?
All the best
Rose
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Thanks for your help everyone.
woody, I think your brilliant suggestion is definitely worth looking into. I'll see if I can find any trace of a John Holmes in North Yorkshire prior to 1851.
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Hi skb
I am sure that Rose (woodydog) is spot on with this one. Whilst Loftus is in Redcar and Cleveland now for administrative purposes I would imagine many people in these parts would still describe it as North Yorkshire even today. I would! As Rose says it certainly was in Yorkshire in the 1800s.
Best wishes
Ticker
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I think Captain Cook was born there but could be wrong!) . Boats = Rope makers...... what do you think?
All the best
Rose
Captain Cook was born in Marton which is now a suburb of Middlesbrough, but he certainly spent some of his early working life in Staithes where he was apprenticed at a shop, before moving on to Whitby and eventually far greater things. At that time Staithes was certainly considered to be a thriving fishing town. There is more information about Captain Cook here: http://www.whitby-uk.com/cgi-bin/site.nav/whitby.pl?page=captaincook
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I've looked on multimap around the Loftus area and there is a Rockcliffe Farm north of Easington just off the Skinningrove to Boulby Road. It's located towards the top right hand corner on the following link:
Here (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=473000.306151875&Y=518000.251059968&width=700&height=400&gride=471898.306151875&gridn=518093.251059968&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=0&scale=25000&up.x=287&up.y=8/)
I'm not sure if this would be the place referred to in the census though.
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I have found several ancestors with the birthplace Rockliffe,but was told there is no such place.Yesterday when driving around the area between Hinderwell and Staithes we past Rockliffe Court, which obviously gets its name from a long gone area of Boulby,Easington.Also in Boulby cemetery i found my ancester grave which says Christopher Severs of Rockliffe so its not a census slipup.
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Thanks anniee.
I did find John Holmes in 1841, but living in Manchester with his mother Harriett. Looking at Harriett Holmes on subsequent censuses, she gives her birthplace as Selby (on 1851) and Wakefield (on 1871).
It's possible that John Holmes was born near one of those places. I can see there is a Rawcliffe near Goole.
But I haven't ruled anything out yet.
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Some of my ancestors were ropemakers in and around Ripon and Northallerton, so there's definitely an industry of sorts.
David
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Thanks David,
All suggestions are still gratefully received.
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This may be a bit late for your research but I have a copy of a marriage record for one of my ancestors which clearly states Rock Cliff as the residence at time of marriage. This marriage was in the parish of Easington in the county of York. This parish covers the coastal area just north of Whitby and I think as far inland as Guisborough so this fits in with an earlier reply giving this area as a location.
Anniee63 - this record of mine is for the marriage of John William Thurlow to Isabella Severs - daughter of Christopher Severs.
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Thanks battling, I'm still interested.
Although John HOLMES is on my "too difficult" pile at the moment, having been born before general registration began, in an obscure part of Yorkshire, and having a very common name.
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Hi, I saw on another message that you are interested in the surname Hallsworth from the Salford area (unfortuately I could work out how to reply to just you so hope everyone else on this thread won't mind me interrupting! LOL!). I am researching the possiblility that my ancestor William Hallsworth (Houldsworth/Haldsworth/Holdsworth) was from James Hallsworth and Ann Minton C: 4/10/1801 at Eccles, Lancashire. Just wondering if you have any info on this family? Cheers, Michelle T
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Hi Michelle,
I have a little bit of information about this Hallsworth family. I will send you a personal message.
skb
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Hi Michelle,
I have a little bit of information about this Hallsworth family. I will send you a personal message.
skb
Hello,
Just to say, Michelle will have to make one, possibly two more replies on one of the main boards before her private message option is activated. At the moment she is unable to see the small green scroll (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/Themes/history/images/im_off.gif) under your username to reply. By answering on here it should hopefully start to work.
Nearly forgot, welcome to RootsChat Michelle ! :) :)
Kind regards,
Pels.
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there is a rockcliffe nr richmond north yorkshire
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There's a very grand hotel and golf complex called Rockcliffe Hall in Hurworth, owned by Steve Gibson of Middlesbrough FC fame. I think this must be located near to High Rockcliffe.
Pels.
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Hi, thanks for replying so quickly and thanks also Pels for your info re the green scroll, which you are right I can't see at the moment. As you can tell I'm new to RootsChat and am still getting used to the format. Am looking forward to hearing any info you may have skb, especially as I'm doing my research from Sydney, Aus, and finding it hard to access info as there is so much still not online (although improving all the time. Cheers, Michelle
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Hi an old girlfriend of mine had a aunt who lived at a place called Carlin How its very close to Skinninggrove Cleveland North Yorkshire she lived on a row of houses called Rockcliffe View I wonder it this has any connection with your Rockciffe you are after ???
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Hello everyone.
Nearly ten years after the original posting I have made virtually no progress on this one. At one time I thought it was more likely that John HOLMES was born in West or South Yorkshire, and the family just moved the fairly short distance to Manchester. But reviewing all your posts again, I'm coming round to the idea that North Yorkshire is the place.
As an added clue, on the 1851 census the family have a lodger - John REDBERRY aged 30, also a Hemp Dresser from Rockcliff Yorkshire (HO107 Piece 2223 Page 29). Can anyone find out anything about this person?
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I have some ancestors from Rockliffe too, but they are from the 1600s. I am not sure 100% but I think it is in or near York city.
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Check out www.surnamedb.com. and use the spelling 'roc life'. This will then give reference to the place.
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I typed Roccliffe but it got mis spelled.
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I came across this old string of posts whilst Googling for Rocliffe, Yorks in the course of my genealogical research. This was the spelling in an 1891 census return for the birthplace of one of the people listed. However, in the 1911 census return the same person was said to have been born in Rawcliffe, Goole, not too far from where the family was actually living in 1911. I guess that this may well resolve the earlier riddle.