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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: carolbee on Friday 06 January 06 12:46 GMT (UK)
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Hello all,
I have only today found this website and would be grateful if anyone can give me a hand to find info on my ggg g/parents William Duff Bruce and Anne Williamson. I have their marriage details (13 October, 1804 in Grange, Banff) and the names and dates of birth for their children but that is all I know about them (other than my gg g/father, George Bruce). All children were born in the Parish of Grange, Banff.
Jamina BRUCE, born 30 April, 1806
Elizabeth Forbes BRUCE, born 3 February, 1808
George BRUCE, born 11 July, 1809 (my great great grandfather)
William Williamson BRUCE, born 10 January, 1811
James BRUCE, born 16 October, 1812
Catharine BRUCE, born 24 May, 1815
Anne Isabella BRUCE, born 17 February, 1817
Fife BRUCE, born 17 December, 1818
John BRUCE, born 15 July, 1821
All the above I found on the LDS site and ScotlandsPeople.
Thanks in advance.
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hi carol, what about this ?
1851 census: mid street keith
william. d. bruce...head...age 85...annuitant...born grange
ann bruce...wife...age 62...annuitant's wife...born fyvie aberdeenshire
happy hunting
Joe
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Well since this I wrote this I have found the whereabouts of Jamina, Elisabeth, Catherine and John, as well as George, who was my gt gt grandfather. The rest remain a mystery, however, I stumbled upon a William Williamson Duff Bruce landing in Mississippi in 1840, and applying for naturalisation, but am unable to find anything further on this person, in censuses, marriages and deaths (in the US). Would appreciate any suggestions or info as to how I can find him? Thanks in advance.
Hello all,
I have only today found this website and would be grateful if anyone can give me a hand to find info on my ggg g/parents William Duff Bruce and Anne Williamson. I have their marriage details (13 October, 1804 in Grange, Banff) and the names and dates of birth for their children but that is all I know about them (other than my gg g/father, George Bruce). All children were born in the Parish of Grange, Banff.
Jamina BRUCE, born 30 April, 1806
Elizabeth Forbes BRUCE, born 3 February, 1808
George BRUCE, born 11 July, 1809 (my great great grandfather)
William Williamson BRUCE, born 10 January, 1811
James BRUCE, born 16 October, 1812
Catharine BRUCE, born 24 May, 1815
Anne Isabella BRUCE, born 17 February, 1817
Fife BRUCE, born 17 December, 1818
John BRUCE, born 15 July, 1821
All the above I found on the LDS site and ScotlandsPeople.
Thanks in advance.
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Thanks for this. Yes it's him! :)
hi carol, what about this ?
1851 census: mid street keith
william. d. bruce...head...age 85...annuitant...born grange
ann bruce...wife...age 62...annuitant's wife...born fyvie aberdeenshire
happy hunting
Joe
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William Duff BRUCE died 6 Mar 1857:
"William Duff Bruce retired farmer (married) died 6-3-1857 11.00 am Fife Keith age 84 yrs 9 mos 13 days, of a fall down a stair, death immediate. Parents: Alexander Bruce crofter (deceased) & Janet Bruce ms Gaa or Gall (deceased), buried in Grange certified by James Gall undertaker. Inf: John S Bruce son Auchincrieve Rothiemay (not present)" - D-1857-Keith-19.
Not sure whether this is my transcription or someone else's, so ScotlandsPeople needs to be consulted. Alexander BRUCE seems to be son of William BRUCE & third wife Margaret KEITH (it seems he married 1st Janet TAYLOR in 1711; 2nd Janet BREMNER abt 1717; 3rd Margaret KEITH in 1724, having children by each. If William BRUCE connects to my Grange BRUCEs (no evidence that he does), he would have to be something like a cousin of George BRUCE & Margaret ALLAN who are my 6xgtgdparents.
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Thanks for the info. Yes I know this about William Duff Bruce - my 4xgt grandfather! So you're related via George Bruce?? Well then, perhaps we have already been in contact before ... your name isn't Howard by any chance is it? He was a descendant of George and Margaret Bruce also, and gave me a LOT of Bruce info a few years ago? If not, that's great, someone else I'm distantly related to! :)
William Duff BRUCE died 6 Mar 1857:
"William Duff Bruce retired farmer (married) died 6-3-1857 11.00 am Fife Keith age 84 yrs 9 mos 13 days, of a fall down a stair, death immediate. Parents: Alexander Bruce crofter (deceased) & Janet Bruce ms Gaa or Gall (deceased), buried in Grange certified by James Gall undertaker. Inf: John S Bruce son Auchincrieve Rothiemay (not present)" - D-1857-Keith-19.
Not sure whether this is my transcription or someone else's, so ScotlandsPeople needs to be consulted. Alexander BRUCE seems to be son of William BRUCE & third wife Margaret KEITH (it seems he married 1st Janet TAYLOR in 1711; 2nd Janet BREMNER abt 1717; 3rd Margaret KEITH in 1724, having children by each. If William BRUCE connects to my Grange BRUCEs (no evidence that he does), he would have to be something like a cousin of George BRUCE & Margaret ALLAN who are my 6xgtgdparents.
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Yes, that's me - and yes we were in contact, now you've reminded me - if you are Carolyn! My 'planting' of keywords in my notes has failed me this time. And I've found I do have an image of the 1857 death certificate, so, for others' benefit, I confirm the transcription as correct, including his age to the day and the surname as "Gaa or Gall".
As an addendum, the father of my George BRUCE (h/o Margaret ALLAN) is almost certainly Alexander BRUCE. Thomas BRUCE in Grange (h/o Margaret ROBERTSON) was very likely his brother - he had a son also named George born 1685 in Grange.
A Thomas BRUCE turns up in Portsoy with a family of born 1687 to 1704 (mother never named), and I am wondering if the Grange Thomas moved to Portsoy. Could be. It's been asserted umpteen times that Thomas' son John BRUCE (b 1690 Portsoy) emigrated to USA, dying in 1748, a carpenter, leaving a Will which still exists and which mentions his children. Everything else surrounding the across-the-water origins of this John BRUCE is just unsubstantiated guesswork, despite being presented as fact, and can be ignored, but with a son also named George, there is at least a case to be made or to be disproved of a link back to Portsoy.
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Yes, that's right ... I’m Carolyn! Hello again! And yes I also have an image of the 1857 death certificate of William Bruce.
So are you now saying that the father of your George and my William (who married 3 times) wasn’t Thomas Bruce after all (h/o Margaret Robertson), but was Alexander Bruce? What was it that made you come to this conclusion? I'm all ears ... tell me more! That would make better sense, in a way, because it seems odd that the name Thomas doesn’t feature anywhere further down the line (in my branch of the family anyway).
At one point I was finding it so frustrating not being able to dig further back beyond Thomas, that I started to consider whether he might even be the Earl of Elgin because the Earl at around that time was a Thomas Bruce.
I have another query going on Rootschat where I asked about William Williamson Bruce, another son of William Duff Bruce who appears to have emigrated to Mississippi in the US under the name of William Williamson Duff Bruce, but I can’t find anything further on him under those exact names, and if he dropped the middle names it’s like looking for a needle in a haystack! Someone responded to me with a William in the 1850 US census, where he is a shoemaker, appears to be single, born in Scotland and living with a family in Tennessee (from memory) … but I don’t know.
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Hullo again!
Grange's Pew Allocation of 9 Jun 1704 shows but one Bruce: "Alexander Bruce in Edingight".
He must have been the "Alexr Bruce in Edingight" who was a witness on 12 Sep 1704; even possibly he was named on 11 Aug 1691 too. "Alexr Bruice elder and younger in Edingight" were witnesses on 21 Jul 1709 to a child of John Bruce & Margaret Wilson (named Alexander). It is reasonable to suggest that Alexander Bruce elder was the father of both Alexander Bruce younger and John Bruce.
On 1 Sep 1713, "Alexander Bruce" was witness to a child of George Bruce & Margaret Allan (named Alexander). It's reasonable to suggest that not only this is Alexander Bruce younger but also his father had died by then.
The name Thomas Bruce never turns up in the context of these families.
So, whilst undoubtedly Thomas Bruce & Margaret Robertson had a son George in Grange (in 1685), it does look as though an Alexander Bruce in Edingight was around and stayed around having a family too. With a Thomas Bruce conveniently turning up in Portsoy by 24 Mar 1688 (obviously if he had come from Grange, their son George would have been with them, had he survived), the balance of evidence, albeit inconclusive, is that George Bruce (h/o Margaret Allan) is son of Alexander, not Thomas.
Thomas, whether in Grange or in Portsoy, was most certainly not the Earl of Elgin! Oddly enough, Hon Thomas Charles Bruce (1825-1890), who was son of the 7th Earl of Elgin, is a key player in a talk I'm giving next week on Friday 13th in Blair Castle about the 150th anniversary (9 Sep 2013) of the opening of the Highland Railway between Inverness and Perth: he was Chairman of the Inverness-based railways involved.
I looked at all the early Bruce baptisms in the early Fordyce OPR. The few places mentioned do not suggest anything other than that these Bruces were artisans (most in Portsoy, but some in Muir of Glassaugh, in Cowhythe, in Redhythe etc). However, one of them has the unique (for Fordyce and Grange) forename of Michael - the only person so named in the whole of the Fordyce and Grange OPRs to 1855. He had a brother Peter/Patrick. Both these names (only the names, mind you) are connected with the Bruces of Airth and Stenhouse, and it's these Bruces that descendants of John Bruce in USA are apparently claiming as ancestors, albeit with Stenhouse consistently misnamed as Sterlinghaus.
I decided enough was enough! These Fordyce Bruces are right at the beginning of the OPR, seemingly by then well-established in the parish, artisans not landowners, so until there's evidence to suggest the contrary, they are local and the trail ends there.
As for your thrice-married William Bruce, he's separate from all this. But there is a fitting William Bruce bpt 11 May 1684 Grange to George Bruce & mother Shearer. You could concoct all sorts of viable scenarios involving every known Bruce in Grange - and who knows? - one might be right!
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Just a wee question about this family. My wife is descended from Margaret Gaa on her Father's side of the family. This would be William Duff Bruce's maternal aunt.
However, the brother of my wife's 4x Gt Grandfather Robert Cruickshank, on her mother's side, was called Alexander Cruickshank and he married a Jemima Bruce in 1840 in Keith. The 41 and 51 Censuses suggest she was born 1815-16, although definitely in Grange. I wonder if this is the same Jemima Bruce? Seems highly probable.
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Hi, That's interesting you have a connection to the Cruickshank family, which I was following for a couple of years! But no, that was a different Jemima Bruce, which I found out the hard way. I spent a lot of time in communication with a woman in Aberdeen who found me on Rootschat, and who was researching the Cruickshank family for a friend. She and I both became convinced that yes, this was our Jemima. I even met that woman when I travelled to Scotland in 2009. As it turned out, only recently (long after I was back in Australia) I accidentally came across a newspaper cutting (Aberdeen Journal) which said that Jemima Duff Bruce, eldest daughter of William Duff Bruce had died at Brooklawn, County Leitrim, Ireland on 23 April, 1837. Her brother George worked at Brooklawn as an agriculturist for the Earl of Leitrim, so it was definitely her! I subsequently discovered that Jemima had had a daughter in 1829 by a John Stronach, (illegitimately I believe).
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Ah well,, still have a connection through the Gaa's anyway, which is a great Surname.
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Yes, I suppose that's true ... there's still that connection through the Gaa family!
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I just came across this discussion and was interested. William Bruce (b 1684) and Margaret Keith of Grange, Banffshire were the 3xgreat grandparents of Australian Prime Minister Stanley Melbourne Bruce. I have been trying to build family trees of the Prime Ministers on Wikitree but am stuck with William Bruce (and his likely father George). Have you developed any theories on pushing this family back a few generations? John
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carolbee and Fordyce, do you have any ideas about the parents of Jemima Bruce who married Alexander Cruickshank?
I see that I have transcribed her in 1841 as Jamaima and in 1851 as Jamesina, but FreeCEN has Jamaina in 1841 and Jammina in 1851. She must have died before 1855, because there doesn't seem to be a death on SP.
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Hi Message for my cousin Carolbee. Am having a hell of a time sending a message, hope this gets through. This rootschat is very confusing I must say.
My GGG? Grandfather was George Bruce and so down through George Williamson Bruce, thence to Mckenzie/Buchanan and now me a Thomas. The line goes through the maternal side.
Thanks for the info on your post, I am using Wikitree and so will now be able to fill in some blanks.
I was particularly interested in the siblings of William Duff which will now lead me down another avenue.
Let me know if I can reciprocate
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carolbee and Fordyce, do you have any ideas about the parents of Jemima Bruce who married Alexander Cruickshank?
I see that I have transcribed her in 1841 as Jamaima and in 1851 as Jamesina, but FreeCEN has Jamaina in 1841 and Jammina in 1851. She must have died before 1855, because there doesn't seem to be a death on SP.
I've only just seen this.
This is her burial: Burial: Jemmina Bruce 15-11-1851 Keith - 1829 Burial Book - Page 107 (Name: Helen Gilbert & William Laing. Section Number on Plan 93. Extent of Ground 10 feet 6 inches.)
This is her husband's death: Alexander Cruickshank age 86 ma=Gilbert - D-1906-159(Keith)-99 SPI. His mother being a Gilbert explains the Lair owner.
Jemima Bruce was born abt 1817 in Grange per 1851 census.
A near miss, but a miss nonetheless: Jamima 2-11-1823 Grange to William Watt & Janet Bruce. In Nethermills (wit: George Bruce & William Cassie).
The only Bruces born in Grange around the time are those of William Duff Bruce and the nearest date-wise is Anne 17 Feb 1817. Maybe she took her's sister's name after she died. That's my best offer!
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Thank you, Fordyce.
I would be very happy with your offer were it not that her children (in order) were Mary, James, Alexander, John, Anne, and William. No Janet at all, and William was her fourth son.
And of course see Reply #10 above.
Her husband Alexander was a son of Charles Cruickshank and Helen Gilbert.
So it looks as if Helen Gilbert may have married twice.