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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cardiganshire => Wales => Cardiganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Amanda Melanie on Monday 02 January 06 22:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Follwing a recent family funeral I have been trying to track down my great grandparents and their family. They are both buried in the churchyard at Llangeitho.I believe Jenkin died on Christmas day,possibly 1917. They lived in a house called Brynawel but there is a link to another house called Bont Fach as my mother can remember attending the funeral as a child (?1928) of Catherine. I think Catherine may have been a Williams before her marriage to Jenkin and may have come from Lledrod .Catherine and Jenkin had four children, my grandmother,Mary (She married David Charles Davies of Lledrod) Martha (Married someone called Joe) but Dorothy and John are also buried at Llangeitho. At the recent funeral it transpired that John had married and had a daughter but we have no further details .
Can anybody help?
Many thanks
Amanda Melanie
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Hello Amanda Melanie and Welcome to Rootschat! :)
You are fortunate to have located some concrete evidence (or should that be stone?) of your ancestors. Now you need to start recording everything else that is known about them!
Have a read of the Beginners board, if you have not already done so, it has lots of useful tips about genealogy in general and also 20th century research.
Are you trying to go backwards for Jenkin and Catherine, or forwards to see what happened to their children? The latter is trickier, due to lack of census information.
DAVIES is not the easiest name to research, particularly in Wales! There are 160 Jenkin DAVIES in Wales in 1901, 53 of them in Cardiganshire! You need to establish some of the basic facts. Does anyone know when their first child was born? This would give you an idea of a date for their marriage & that certificate would provide info on their ages, his occupation and their fathers' names. You can find marriage references on 1837online (payable) for example.
Make sure you interview and exploit all living relatives - they are often a mine of information. did you record the details on the gravestones or is someone living nearby who could do that for you? Again this would helpo establish ages for the couple.
Post specific enquiries on this board with as much detail as you can and rootschatters will do their best to assist.
Good luck!
kind regards, Arrnaroots ;)
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Arranroots,
Thanks for your tips. Very helpful as I'm a complete beginner!!We have some photos of the gravestones and I've found a website specifically for translating Welsh gravestones. I believe my grandmother Mary was the eldest born either 1884/1885(?26th September) and Martha was 7 years younger. John's DOB is possibly 1886/1887 as I think he was 30ish when he died in 1917. Dorothy,I'm not sure where she fits in but I think she died quite young.
I dont mind which direction I go in as it's all fascinating!!!
Many thanks for your help.
Amanda
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That's great!
Run away now & look at the photos or ring whoever has them!!
There are so many of these people it is going to be difficult to pin them down, but Jenkin is the most promising as you have his date of birth (or can work it out hopefully).
I can't seem to find the family in the right location - do you know whether they moved about in the early days of their marriage?
I am still looking for you
A ;)
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Jenkin does not seem to be in the village in 1891.
I cannot locate the houses you name in that census either, although the properties do seem to be named. some are grouped together with a common name, though.
Will try 1901.
A ;)
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Hi Amanda, welcome to Cardiganshire.
I agree with Arranrooots that the easiest to trace back initially would be Jenkin Davies - a not too common combination of names.
By looking in freeBMD using the dates you gave, I came up with this possibility of Jenkin and Catherine's marriage........1882, March quarter, Tregaron District, volume 11b, page 83. (both Jenkin Davies and Catharine Williams appear on the same page).
IF this is (big if as yet) their marriage the certificate will give parents and occupations.
All the best with your future researches.
Cheers Dave
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Well spotted Dave!
Ties in well with the birth dates too!
I did find a house called Hen Bont Fach in 1901 - it was unoccupied! No luck with the other property, nor with Jenkin.
Do let us know if you find anything else out.
Arranroots ;)
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Hi Amanda
Possibilities for Jenkin Davies in 1881, unfortunately no parents!
RG11/5451/75/20 - Llangeitho
Jenkin Davies, hd, u, m, 27, Llandysuliogogo, Elementary Teacher
Elizabeth Davies, sis, u, f, 25, Llandysuliogogo, Housekeeper
John Davies, bro, u, m, 14, Llandysuliogogo, Scholar
Address: Erw, Llangeitho.
RG11/5451/73/15 - Llangeitho
Jenkin Davies, sv, u, m, 25, Gartheli, Farm Servant(indoor)
Head of household - John Rowlands a farmer of 110 acres
Address: Tyndolau, Llangeitho
Can't see any other eligible in Llangeitho, have not found Catherine ?Williams?
Found using http://www.familysearch.org/
Cheers Dave
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Hello Dave and Arranroots,
You've been a great help so far. I've passed these details on to my cousin who has also been struggling with the family tree.She is going to send off for the copies we need. I have been trying my best 'Welsh' to translate the gravestones in the photos so they seem to make a bit more sense.Although two aunts now dont seem to have the surname of Davies at all. And it seems we too have a John Jones in the family!! What have I started???!!!!!!
Thanks again and Blewddyn Newydd Dda!
Amanda Melanie
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Hello again!
If you get really stuck with your translations, feel free to post the text here & we (royal we LOL!!) can have a go. Or post the photo on the Common Room board.
Alternatively, this site comes in quite handy in addition to the one you are already using!
Now we are in suspense, so don't forget to let us know! :)
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hello Arranroots,
I feel like I've hit the jackpot!My mums cousin has sent her various birth certificates including Catharine Williams.And she also has the family bible with other dates.Jenkin was apparently a farm servant so this might fit with the second lot of details on the 1881 census.I'm shooting over to my mothers now as the suspense is killing me!!I'll post more later and let you have a laugh at my welsh translation!!
Regards
AmandaMelanie
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Hello again - I won't be laughing! Rootschatters know that my Welsh is limited to asking where my crisps are and saying I like coffee - not helpful for gravestones!!
But I know a man who does...
;D
Really good news! Talk again later??
A ;)
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Hello again,
Firstly the dates
Catharine Williams 26/9/1851 5/9/1926
Rhydfydyr,Lledrod
mother Dorothy(Formerly Williams)
father John Williams
Catharine married Jenkin Davies (13/8/1858 25/12/1917) on 10/3/1882
Children
John W 19/6 /1882 23/7/1916 married 16/6/1912
Mary 17/8/1885 26/7/1950 married 20/5/1915 This date of death is wrong as she died before my sister was born which would make it either August or September 1948
Dorothy 20/2/1890 18/7/1913
Martha 18/2/1893 26/4/1957 married 11/8/1922
On Marthas birth certificate it states that Jenkin was a farm servant. The house (Hen)Bont Fach is quite a big house for a farm servant to own. Is it possible this comes under the farmer John Rowlands? It is situated on the outskirts of the village. Is this Tyndolau or is this the name of another house? Is it possible to obtain old maps of the village?
Sorry ,too many questions but my head is just buzzing!
Thanks Amanda Melanie
ps I'll leave the Welsh for now as that is my grandfathers side of the family and I'll get confused!!!
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They should stand out like a sore thumb now!
But they aren't!
Still looking!
A ;)
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OK I have found Catherine + daughters in 1901 - not widowed, as I thought!
Here they are
RG13/5158/43/6
DAVIES Cathrine H M 49 - Lledrod
Dorothy dau 11 - Gwynfil
Martha dau 8 - ditto
Address: 5 Meidrim Rd, Gwynfil, Cardiganshire
Could be they moved about into "tied accomodation" according to Jenkin's work.
Will go back to 1891, but it didn't look promising!
A ;)
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I can't find Catherine & the girls in 1891 - they should by rights be in Gwnfil. I did find what could be your Jenkin however - possibly working for a relative? There is a ROWLAND family next door but one!
RG23/4563/42/10
DAVIES David H M? 36 or 65? - farmer - Llanio, Cardiganshire
DAVIES Elizabeth W M 38 - Sartheli? do
DAVIES John son 8 - Gwynfil
DAVIES Mary dau 5 - ditto
DAVIES David son 3 - ditto
DAVIES Jenkin serv M 32 - farm serv - Cilcenin
EDWARDS Jane serv U 17 - gen serv - Sarthely?
EDWARDS Ellen serv U 13 - gen serv - ditto
Address: Brynmaen, Gwynfil, Cardiganshire
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Found them! :D
Mistranscribed as EVANS ?!?
RG12/4563/38/1
DAVIES Catherine Wife Mar 37 - farm serv wife - Lledrod
DAVIES John son 8 - Gwinfil
DAVIES Mary dau 5 - ditto
DAVIES Dorothy dau 1 - ditto
MORGANS Anne lodger 1 - Bettws
WILLIAMS Margaret vis U 47 - living on own means - Lledrod
JAMES Mary vis U 17 - gen serv - Gwnws
Address: Pontfach, Gwynfil, Cardiganshire
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Many thanks,
Are Gwynfil and Tyndolau places/villages or house names? I know the family moved at somepoint into the village of Llangeitho into Brynawel but for some reason Catharines funeral procession left from Bont Fach. My mother can remember a tall hedge and roses around the door. Brynawel is mid terrace. Mary could possibly have left at 16yrs to go into service. I shall check this out.
Thanks again
Amanda Melanie
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Morning Amanda Melanie!
Happy to help! sorry I don't know anything about the place names you mention - I would have to resort to the internet or maps or visiting, the same as you!
When you have had time to record & think about the info here, it would be best to start a new thread for any more info you need. It helps a lot if you refer to what you already know & the easiest way is to cut & paste the URL from the top of the first page of this one (http...) Rootschat turns this into a link and saves you the trouble of typing it all out again.
You can check the 1881 census online free yourself here:
http://www.familysearch.org/
Good luck!
Arranroots ;)
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Hi there, this looks like an interesting search, especially as Amanda has a John Jones from Cardiganshire in the family, where will it all end :D.
I thought I would have a look at Lledrod (pretty mountain village) in 1841 to try and find Dorothy Williams. No success, but I think I found the house, Rhydfydyr (sic).
HO107/1374/10/Enum Dist 2/p9 - Lledrod Lower.
Address, Rhydfydwr (guess at translation - my water ford)
David Williams, 71, Farmer, y
Mary Williams, 66, y
Thomas Williams, 7, y
Elizabeth Lloyd, 4, y
Mary Daniel, 17, FS, y
Ebeneser Jones, 29, ?something? Smith, y
Perhaps the young children are grandchildren
Cheers Dave
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Further to my last post..........
Gwynfil is a township in the parish of Llandewibrefi, which is between Tregaron and Lampeter.
Tyndolau is almost certainly a house name - it means 'house in the meadows'
While I'm at it....................Brynawel - Hill Breeze, Bont Fach - Little Bridge.
Cheers Dave
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Gwynfil is a parishnext o Llangeitho
Bontfach, is a small cottage, with about 2 acres of ground about 400 yards from the village
Tyndolau is a Farm, again about 400 yards from the village of Llangeitho
Brynawel is one of aterrace of houses in the village and would be mid way between Tyndolau and Bontfach.
I know the search is old but someone may look it up
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Hi '
Many thanks for your post. I visited llangeitho with my mum and was lucky enough to be invited into Brynawel. My mum hadn't been back for 64 years so it meant a lot.
Are you from the village itself ?
Have done quite well with the family tree but still cant pin Jenkin down !!!
Regards
Amanda
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Yes have lived in the area for over 30 years, my parents owned and farmed Tyndolau in the 70's- 80's.
The land of bontfach was bought by them and added to Tyndolau. at the time