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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: LizzieF on Saturday 11 September 04 21:08 BST (UK)
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What is the procedure about registering stillbirths? I am particularly interested because my gggrandmother had 17 children, so the family tale goes. I have found 13 and relatives think there were several sets of twins. I have found two sets, three children out of the sets survived :D
I feel that the remaining children may have been stillborn. :(
The family lived both in the UK and Ireland.
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Evening LizzieF
According to Ancestral Trails by Mark Herber, stillbirths did not have to be registered until 1874. However, Barbara Dixon says in her book that stillbirths were not registered until 1926. The registers "were sent to the GRO when complete, so there is no record in the local register office, there are no indexes to stillbirth registers and the certificates are not issued to thos doing genealogy."
Not a lot of help is it?
Nell
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Hello I do recall a register of sorts documented in one of the family history magazines, not sure which either:
Practical Family History
Family History Monthly or
Family Tree Magazine
I will have a good look through my lot to see if I can find the topic
Regards Jen :D
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I have just checked a few sites online about this topic and it seems that only the parents listed on the still birth registration can receive copies of the certificate after the initial registration. I myself don't understand this because you can then locate the burial register and get the full details anyway. In fact in the register for where my daughter is burried she is listed as stillborn
rob
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I found the issue I thought I had read about stillbirths, nothing sure to assist you. I can scan the page if you wish to see it, if you do instant message me and I will scan it to you. Within the issue it gives these useful links (not many i'm afraid):
http://www.monikie.org.uk/ah-monburtext.htm
If you experience trouble with the link then try:
http://www.monikie.org.uk
Monikie (near Dundee Scotland) Kirkyard burial records extracted from the old parish recrods includes details of stillborn children, and those who died in early infancy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1488453.stm
BBC news article about where stillborn babies were buried in Middlesbrough up until the 1980's
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Could anyone tell me whether the Church required stillborn babies to be baptised before they could be buried with a Church service?
Honeybun
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Hi Honeybun,
I contacted a reliable source and received the following reply.
The present practice of the Church of England, while much is left to the discretion of the minister, says No. Funeral Services are published in a book called 'Pastoral Services' and on pages 316-7 there is a 'Theological Note on the Funeral of a Child Dying near the Time of Birth' which encourages clergy to provide a sensitively adapted funeral service for stillbirths or children who die within hours or days of being born. It includes the phrase 'You cannnot baptize someone who is dead', and gives reasons. I do not know about other denominations, but I notice that the Roman Catholic church has now stopped speaking of limbo as the place where unbaptised babies go, and leaves their fate to God's mercy.
Best Wishes,
Christopher
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Hi,this is my first post so bear with me....In 1959 i had a sister who was stillborn and according to my mother she was taken away within an hour of being born and was buried in the same coffin as a neighbour who was being buried that day.She was never baptised or even registered and still hasn't been to this day,all this happened in Portsmouth in March 1959.When i've questioned my mother about this issue she always says"that's the way it was done in those days".
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Hi pompeyboy
Welcome to Rootschat.
I think stillbirthes were handled very insensitively in the past. I know an old lady who is still upset she did not hold her stillborn daughter.
Jan
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Hi,this is my first post so bear with me....In 1959 i had a sister who was stillborn and according to my mother she was taken away within an hour of being born and was buried in the same coffin as a neighbour who was being buried that day.She was never baptised or even registered and still hasn't been to this day,all this happened in Portsmouth in March 1959.When i've questioned my mother about this issue she always says"that's the way it was done in those days".
I have exactly the same situation as you......the only difference being my sister was stillborn in 1962.
I contacted the GRO to see whether I could obtain a copy of a certificate but was advised that only the parents named are able to do this. I will be able to once my parents have died (horrible thought).
I cannot discuss my sister with either of my parents, they have just blocked it all out and prefer to leave it that way. Very sad.
Jan
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Hi Janan
I agree it all seemed so cold and calculated and treated as though they were not human at all.Nice to meet you.
Steve
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Hi Lloydy
It is very sad,it must have been terrible for the parents of such babies that they couldn't even hold their child even for a few moments,luckily for me i was only about 2 yrs old and don't remember anything about it.Nice to meet you.
Steve
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Hi Steve
Good to meet you too :D
Even luckier for me, I wasn't born until 5 years later.
Hope you enjoy Rootschat ;)
Jan
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Dear All
The Church of England situation is you can't baptize stillborn children - they are blessed instead.
Linda
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Dear All
But they do have a proper funeral nowadays - it's one of the things hospital chaplains do.
Linda
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Hi Steve
Nice to meet you too - hope to see you around the boards. Have fun :D
Jan (the other one ;))
Hi Linda,
Yes things are very much improved these days.
Jan ;)
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I have exactly the same situation as you......the only difference being my sister was stillborn in 1962.
I contacted the GRO to see whether I could obtain a copy of a certificate but was advised that only the parents named are able to do this. I will be able to once my parents have died (horrible thought).
I cannot discuss my sister with either of my parents, they have just blocked it all out and prefer to leave it that way. Very sad.
Jan
The reply you got from the GRO is not actually correct.
The GRO policy is that only the parents of the stillborn child may ask for a search of the stillbirth register and purchase a certificate but the law says different.
In law each application is actually dependent on the decision of the Registrar General.
It is possible that the Registrar General would be willing to accept an application from a sibling and direct the GRO to provide a certificate.
This has been done many times in the past the current guidance simply speeds up the situation by not having to forward every application to the Registrar General.
Try writing to the Registrar General and explain the situation, stress the importance of being allowed to find closure on the loss of your sibling, a loss which though it happened years ago is very significant to you as a sibling. Stress also that the present guidance is actually causing more anguish fed by the fact you feel you are having to almost wish for the death of your parents before being allowed to know the truth about your sibling.
The 1953 Act section 30/3 states-
(3) The foregoing provisions of this section shall not apply to certified copies of entries in registers of still-births, but the Registrar General may, if he sees fit in any particular case and on payment of as aforesaid of the appropriate fee aforesaid, cause a search to be made for, and allow any person to have a certified copy of any entry in any such certified copies or in any filled register of still-births which has been forwarded to him.
Cheers
Guy
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Hi,
I have recently acquired a birth certificate which my mother always assumed was my dads, but it has made me wonder if perhaps my dad had a stillborn twin.
The certificate is headed Form of Certificate of Registry of Birth or Stillbirth. It reads as follows:-
I, the undersigned, do hereby certify that the birth of a male/female child (still-) born on ........1930
has been duly registered by me at entry No 190 of my register book no 26 Informant............... qualifications of informant - father
Then it is signed & dated by registrar.
Although it gives my fathers date of birth the word still has not been crossed through.
Has anyone seen this form used before?
Nashua
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I have exactly the same situation as you......the only difference being my sister was stillborn in 1962.
I contacted the GRO to see whether I could obtain a copy of a certificate but was advised that only the parents named are able to do this. I will be able to once my parents have died (horrible thought).
I cannot discuss my sister with either of my parents, they have just blocked it all out and prefer to leave it that way. Very sad.
Jan
The reply you got from the GRO is not actually correct.
The GRO policy is that only the parents of the stillborn child may ask for a search of the stillbirth register and purchase a certificate but the law says different.
In law each application is actually dependent on the decision of the Registrar General.
It is possible that the Registrar General would be willing to accept an application from a sibling and direct the GRO to provide a certificate.
This has been done many times in the past the current guidance simply speeds up the situation by not having to forward every application to the Registrar General.
Try writing to the Registrar General and explain the situation, stress the importance of being allowed to find closure on the loss of your sibling, a loss which though it happened years ago is very significant to you as a sibling. Stress also that the present guidance is actually causing more anguish fed by the fact you feel you are having to almost wish for the death of your parents before being allowed to know the truth about your sibling.
The 1953 Act section 30/3 states-
(3) The foregoing provisions of this section shall not apply to certified copies of entries in registers of still-births, but the Registrar General may, if he sees fit in any particular case and on payment of as aforesaid of the appropriate fee aforesaid, cause a search to be made for, and allow any person to have a certified copy of any entry in any such certified copies or in any filled register of still-births which has been forwarded to him.
Cheers
Guy
Guy
Thanks for your very useful advice (I know you have already passed this on to me!!), and after reading it I have decided to write such a letter explaining my wish for closure. I assume that I'll need to enclose my birth certificate as proof of my identity?
Jan
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Have just come across this topic as I'm just starting to see if I can find any record of my stillborn younger brother.
As with many families his birth was never discussed and as I was only young at the time I only have an approx year (1964). I know my mum was so upset by the way in which she and the baby were treated at the time. Alledgedly he was wrapped in a sheet and taken away never to be seen again. It seems no-one even knows where he was buried.
From reading the above am I correct in assuming there is a seperate register, or should he appear on the birth & death registers? Unfortunately he never had a name either.
Thanks,
Mark
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Hi
I found a stillborn by looking through the cemetary records.
Best Wishes
Wendy
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Hi Wendy,
Thanks for the suggestion but I've been through the local cemetry records for other relatives, and there's no mention of him there.
mark
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Hi Mark !!
This is still a very touchy subject in our family ........ and I'm still looking too ....
I was told that as the baby did not take a breath - there was no birth certificate - therefore no death certificate !! but I wonder if there would still be hospital records ......... the Archives have some hospital records and I haven't tried there yet ....... but it might be worth a shot !! especially for you - as yours is more recent than mine !!
Annie :)
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HI Annie,
Thanks for the pointer. As far as I know he was born in the same hospital as my brother & I, so perhaps I could contact them.
The way in which it was all described by my mum many years ago suggest that it would have been the same - no certs, almost not acknowledged at all.
Thanks,
Mark
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Hello again
I am no further forward as, to be honest, I feel that I can't go behind my parents back by writing to the Registrar General.
I think I will leave well alone for the time being.
Jan
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hiya all
I am quite new to all this but have a story which may or may not help.
My older sister died at birth in 1969, she had spina bifida and hydrocephalus and died shortly after, my dad handled the burial and died with my mum never
knowing the place of burial or the date of the funeral,
That was that until 1999 when my own child passed away and I was compelled to find my sister and so I went hunting. Back in the day I was not into genealogy so took to the phone,
I started by phoning the GRO they told me that only my mum could apply but after explaining my situation ( I think they took pity on me) they did a search they discovered that there was no birth cert as the child was registered as stillborn, I asked for a copy of the Stillborn cert and this arrived.
Next I wanted to know where she was buried, I assumed that we were born in the same hospital and so started there where I was told that they used to incinerate stillbirths (which horrified me) They also told me that they used to deal with a local cemetery mostly and so then phoned there with no joy.
I worked around the area explaining my situation and doing a lot of talking eventually I spoke to an old boy who looked after a cemetery and he informed me of one particular cemetery which might be of interest to me, I phoned up explained what I was looking for and about a week later a lady rang back to tell me that they had found my sister and sent me the grave information..
All this information was obtained and I was never asked for a penny,
I don't know if any of this helps any one, but it is possible with a little perseverance
Good Luck with your Search
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Hi Phay and welcome to RootsChat !
Thank you so much for sharing that with us ..... I'm sure it'll give us pause for thought !!
I know that maybe I'll be able to go further with my search now - especially regarding the "stillborn" certificate ! ...... I had been told at one time that my sister had been taken to the lab and as it was a teaching hospital .... she had been observed as a teaching tool ..... which gave me the shivers ........ at that point I stopped ....... I don't believe my Mum ever knew that !!
We all seem to have some very sad stories ..... but thanks again for your post !
Annie :)
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Hello Phay and thank you for explaining your quest.
I was compelled to find my sister and so I went hunting
I feel the same, especially since doing my family tree, but unfortunately I can't discuss it with my parents. It's a subject they refuse to talk about.
I started by phoning the GRO they told me that only my mum could apply but after explaining my situation ( I think they took pity on me) they did a search they discovered that there was no birth cert as the child was registered as stillborn, I asked for a copy of the Stillborn cert and this arrived.
I think I will phone the GRO and see if they take pity on me aswell....all they can say is "No". I have nothing to lose.
Next I wanted to know where she was buried, I assumed that we were born in the same hospital and so started there where I was told that they used to incinerate stillbirths (which horrified me)
Horrifying indeed........but Mum did tell me that my sister was incinerated. I don't know whether this is true, or merely to stop me searching. I shall phone our local hospital and see what I can find out.
I don't know if any of this helps any one,
You have been extremely helpful :)
Many thanks
Jan
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Hi everyone,
I have been reading through this topic with interest as my mum gave birth to a stillborn baby daughter and I have often wondered how I would go about searching for the documentation, my parents did not speak about this very much and has they have now both sadly passed away I cannot ask. Now I have started making inquiries using some helpful suggestions given here.
So I would like to say Thank you for the help and guidance.
Regards Mimosa
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Hi,
I've just noticed this topic. My mum gave birth to her first child, a stillborn son, in 1951...and as with other posters experiences, the baby was taken away right after the birth, my dad dealt with the funeral and my mum was told nothing about it or told where he was buried.
It had always bothered mum that she wasn't able to see him or hold him and that he was never talked about but that is how it was dealt with in those days.
A few years ago, I came across a small notice in the local paper telling of a Stillbirth service to be held in a cemetery here in Aberdeen organised by the hospital chaplain and SANDS. Mum and I attended the service and it was very emotional and very moving. Mum was able to talk to the chaplain and representatives of SANDS afterwards and discovered that most stillborn babies born in the hospital over the years were buried in the special babies section at Trinity Cemetery. None of the graves were marked and we were told of the plan to create a walkway of edging stones on which the babies names could be engraved and that the service was going to be held annually.
A few years on and mum has somewhere to visit and remember my brother and he has his special stone with his name on it.
I have recently discovered that stillbirths in Scotland have been registered since 1939 and this is something that I can look into as mum would be interested in getting an extract.
Elaine
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...In 1959 i had a sister who was stillborn and according to my mother she was taken away within an hour of being born and was buried in the same coffin as a neighbour who was being buried that day.
Had a bit of a result yesterday......have been in constant touch with a lovely helpful lady in the Portsmouth Cemeteries Dept,in fact we are now on first name terms,she has been so helpful in finding graves for some of my rellies,but this time she really has come up trumps.My mother had a stillborn baby(as in above quote)now it turns out that my sister had in fact been buried in her own coffin in a communal grave,this lady gave me the plot,row number and grave number,my mother was shocked as she had been told otherwise,she can now get some sort of closure and has gone to the grave today to lay some flowers,she is so pleased.The lady in the cemeteries dept has also recieved a box of choccies from us both for her help.
Similing Steve ;D
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That is absolutely wonderful.
;D and :'( at the same time
Tina
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That is absolutely wonderful.
;D and :'( at the same time
Tina
Thanks Tina,you're right it is great and at the same time a bit sad..had a lump in me throat since i found out and can't wait to get back to Portsmouth for a visit.
Cheers
Steve :)
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Fantastic Steve :D :'(
People can be so helpful - wonderful when someone is willing to do that bit extra
Jan ;)
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I'm so pleased for you and especially for your mum Steve :)
Elaine
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Thanks Jan and Elaine..the lady in question has been so helpful and will be in the future as well hopefully and it cost me no more than a box of chocolates..like you say Jan some people are so kind and helpful without expecting anything in return.....she was quite chuffed with the chocs though.
Steve :D
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my gran had a stillborn daughter ( the only girl out of 8 boys!)
she was born in 1936 at home, the birth or death was never registered but while going through the suitcase I came across a receipt from a funeral directors.
It gave the plot number for the baby.
although it was a public grave my gran had to pay 3 shillings and 6d for the burial.
I have tracked the plot down although there are no markers, the workman I spoke to said that the public graves ran all round the permitter of the graveyard and would never be disturbed.
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Well done Steve and Mrs_tease on your discoveries, and to your mum Steve at finally gettin some closure on a very sad event.
I know that my own mum would have dearly loved to visit her child's grave, but it was never to be. Mum's ill health did not allow for long journeys as it would have been for her to the cemetery.
So after mum's death in 2002, we decided that her ashes should be scattered at the same spot as my sister was all those years ago. Figured that we the surviving children had her in life, so let her spirit rest with the child that she loved and missed so dearly.
hugs to all
Px
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To go back to Lizzie F's original query, in the late 1800s (so maybe a similar time to her gt-gt-grandmother) my gt-grandmother had 10 children, 6 boys and 4 girls. Sadly only 1 of the 6 boys survived beyond infancy, and 3 of them were stillborn. Apparently my great-aunts were sent to the cemetery each time with the remains of the stillborn babies in a box, which was then buried by the sexton in the next grave he dug! Even the little boys who lived for a few days or weeks are not named in the family grave record or mentioned on the family tombstone, so maybe they went the same way, too.
So sad, but childbirth and indeed childhood was a risky business in those days.
Regards,
Gillg