RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: fluffnco on Saturday 11 September 04 17:44 BST (UK)
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I'd be interested in any information anyone can give me on these families in the marnoch (particularly Aberchirder ) area.
I'm particularly interested in anyone who can give me details of a Jeannie Hay Mutch who was probably born around the 1919 - 1920's in the Marnoch area. She died in 1962 in the Dingwall area. If anyone can give me a lead on her possible parents then it would be a start. I am intending to try to get hold of her birth Cert. next month (when funds allow) but without parents names it's going to be hard.
John Riddell (no birthdate) died early 1990's and buried in Marnoch cemetery but who lived and died in Aberchirder as did his mother. I have no other details on him as to where he was born but am assuming he was also born in the Marnoch area.
anything at all would be a great help even if it doesn't seem to link
ty
Fluffnco
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Hi Fluffnco
Sorry we haven't been able to help you so far on this one.
Have you made any progress, or do you have any further details that could help someone to find what you are looking for?
Look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes
Ticker
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Hi Ticker,
I've managed to get jeanie Hay Mutch's death certificate details via scotsorigins. She married in Dingwall on 21st March 1950 to a David Stirling.
her death cert details were as follows
Parish - District: Inverness
Ref: 098/A Entry 413
name: Jeanie Hay Stirling, Married to David Stirling, General labourer
Date and Place: 8th June 1962, 6pm, Raigmore Hospital, Inverness, usual residence 6 Meiklefield Road, Dingwall
Sex and Age: Female, 42
fathers name: (Blank)
Mothers name: Christina Mutch, Deceased
Cause of Death: Lympho-Sarcoma of Small Bowel, Unknown years
Informant: W J (unclear Initials)Stirling, Brother-in-Law, 12 Cluny (unclear) Road, Dingwall
This means she was definitely born in late 1919 or 1920. I don't have her birth certificate as I have been researching another line of my tree.
I've paid and searched the scotlandspeople site in the 1881/91 census and statutory register for births of Christina Mutch.
MY mother believes Christina may have have came from the Ellon district and she seems to think that she was told by my fathers 'foster' mum that Jeanie Hay Mutch was orphaned when young although she really isn't too sure on this. My dad was never officially adopted. His mum left him and his brother who died age 16 in the care of my 'granny chris' and left the village. She never returned for them. My mum has a suspicion that Granny chris may possibly have been Jeanie's sister but with a different father although this hasn't been proven as fact.
In my 1881 census search I found a Christian Mutch age 31 living at Ellon Station, Ellon, Aberdeen
and also
Christina Mutch age 24 living at Ardlin, Ellon Aberdeen
I performed a search of both the 1891 and 1901 census for Christina Mutch's and Christina Mutch age 41 in Ellon showed up but no christina aged 34 in Ellon although there was one in Savoch age 33. However for these two ladies to have been the mother of my Jeanie Mutch she would have had to be a menopause baby I would think. I'm erring towards the thinking line that these are not my Christina.
I looked for births around the 1901 area thinking that maybe Christina had Jeanie young and abandoned her or died after giving birth to her. I found a Christina Mutch born in the Cruden area on dec 26th in Hatton village Cruden to a James Mutch and a Christina Mutch (maiden name Annand??) who were married on 28th June 1895 in Cruden.
I have no idea of knowing if the Cruden area is any where near the Ellon area and to be honest I have become a little disheartened. Having no concrete details to go on is making this very hard.
Because my father was abandoned he has real issues with even talking about it and so getting even snippets of information has not been an option.
I feel like I'm looking for a needle in a haystack LOL
The Jeanie Mutch birth certificate I sent off for was the wrong person and far too old for my Jeanie Hay Mutch so I've not really got any further in this line of inquiry at all. At least having a concrete age for her death gives me something further to work on.
If finances allow me too I may travel upto Edinburgh later in the year and have a hunt personally for information on this family line :)
I just wish the scottish BDM's were set up similar to the GRO's as I find it easier to hunt for people on the GRO system :)
so that's as far as I have got.
thanks for enquiring Ticker
kind regards
Del
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If your Jeanie Hay Mutch was born in 1919/20, she would indeed have been a miracle if her mother was already 24 (never mind older still ) in 1881 ;) Your Christina may not even have been born by the 1901 census! (Actually I would not be surprised if the one you found in 1901 is the right one).
If I were you I would have another look for Jeanie's birth certificate, but extend a couple of years either side of 1919/20 just in case. Also remember that she may have been registered as Jane, Jean or Janet (or something more obscure) and without the middle name.
Cruden is close to Ellon; If you go to www.streetmap.co.uk and search for Cruden Bay and Ellon you will see that they are only a few miles apart. In fact the two parishes come within less than a mile of one another.
Is it possible that "Granny Chris" could actually be his grandmother rather than an aunt?
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Hi,
This is a bit confusing, you poor thing..
In what I have seen, of Illegitemate children,
if the mum is a child herself, someone else will bring the baby up.
on Jeanie's marriage cert, it may say who brought her up, it will say who her mum is and may say who was acting as mum.
But anyway, I am thinking that in 1919-1920, Christina was a teenager, and has had Jeanie, and someone has raised her, so Christina can go on with working.
Now all this is of course, only a possibility.
I looked for a death of a Chr* Mutch first.
Going from 1918 through to 1950. all of Scotland.
[You have probably done this yourself]
There were 3 possibles.
14 1937 MUTCH CHRISTINA F 65 FRASERBURGH ABERDEEN 196/00 0102
16 1942 MUTCH CHRISTINA F 55 FRASERBURGH ABERDEEN 196/00 0015
17 1946 MUTCH CHRISTINA F 42 ABERDEEN NORTHERN DISTRICT ABERDEEN 168/01 0478
I decided to go with no 17.
It says
Christina Adam , married to William Adam.
died 5th April 1946 aged 42yrs. she died at the Maternity Hospital, aberdeen. her usual residence, was
[GET THIS]
North Tollo? Fortrie Inverkeithny.
[which is 2.6miles from Marnoch]
her father was William Mutch farm servant, deceased.
her mother was Mary Barron Mutch, maid surname Grant.
Christina died of Eclampsia, and cardiac failure.
..
on the same cert.
her son died the next day. called James Adam.
ALL SO TRAGIC. I'm sorry.
now if this is your Christina, then she would have been 16yrs, old when she gave birth, to Jeanie. and she would have had to give her child to someone to look after.
She Married William Adam 14th Feb 1925 at 54 Castle street, Aberdeen, in the presence of William Raeburn and Mary Barron Grant or Mutch..both residing at Kirktown Inverkeithny by Turriff.
William was 22yrs and usual residence was Aucharnie, Forgue. his parents were Alexander Adam and Annie Adam MSurname, Chalmers.
Christina Mutch 21yrs, living at Kirktown Inverkeithny by Turriff parents William Mutch and Mary Barron Mutch [MS] Grant.
I found the index of birth for Christina Mutch 1904 Auchterless.
Now this isn't Ellon but it is on the way there.
There is one other suitable, to do with Fraserburgh. and she would be considerably older. born 1888.
So who raised Jeanie, I wonder.
I wonder if, her mum got her back, after she married.
and told Jeanie that she was a relative and [not addmitted to being her mother]. And if Jeanie gave her 2 children to later to Christina, until Christina died, and that is why your father and his brother , were sent to a foster mum. Does 1946 sound likely, for them to go into fostercare?
Love to hear your view.
Kenjo
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Wow kenjo there are maiden names popping up in what you found that ring bells here with me *huge grin*
My 'granny chrissie' who took my father and his brother in had the name Chalmers. From what I have managed to piece together she never married but did have four children who my father looks on as his 'family' and she took my father and his brother in when my dad was 5 years old. My father was born in January 1938 so it was approximately 1943 when he began living with Granny Chrissie. I believe my father's brother was two years younger than my father and was born around 1940. Unfortunately my dad's brother died at the age of 16 with a very bad asthma attack. My dad was 18 at the time and joined the army shortly after his brothers death where he later met my mum.
I can vaguely remember my father used to take us to visit a farmer on the odd occasion we went upto Aberchirder for a visit, who he used to help out when he was young.I knew him only as Mr Grant and all my father has ever told us was that he used to work on Mr Grants farm. There was never any talk about them being related to us in any way or even related to Granny Chris but it may be that they were. Unforunately Mr Grant died several years back and his farm was sold so I have no way of verifying anything.
I may ask my mum for contact details for the siblings of my granny chris and see if they are willing to talk to me and help me out with anything they can remember being said about my dad's real mother and father. It all seems to have been kept very quiet and 'hidden' from us 'kids' over the years though so they may not be willing to disclose anything. Guess I can but try and see if I can get any leads.
I'm certainly feeling a desire to begin this quest again thanks to your researching on my behalf and I really am grateful to you for that. Where on earth did you manage to unearth these details? I looked through what I found on scotlandspeople site and I have got both of these in searches I did for any Christina Mutch's and I even have a print off of Christina Adams Death Entry along with her baby sons (along with several other Christina's too ) :)
I'm going to ring up Edinburgh and ask for them to do a search for jeannies birth, marriage and death certificates and see if there is anything else on them that will help me so keep your fingers crossed. With hindsight I should have rang them first but you live and learn
I'll certainly keep you posted of my findings :)
Was the 1888 Christina the one who married a Cameron by any chance?
Once again thank you for taking the time out to do this on my behalf. I really do appreciate it :)
Del
aka fluffnco
PS it was me on GenesReunited too :) Just not got round to answering you yet as I needed to renew my membership
You've certainly given me a lead to follow.
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I rang up the GRO in Edinburgh today and ordered Jeanie Hay Mutch's Birth, Death and marriage Certificates. They are going to do a search two years either side of 1920 for her birth for me. The gentleman I spoke to was very helpful so I am hoping I get them within the next 15 days :)
I just love getting money for an easter present :)
I'm hoping the birth Certificate will give me a hint as to Jeanie's father although knowing my luck he won't be mentioned LOL however, it will tell me at least where she was born which in turn should help in determining if the Christina you have homed in on is the correct one or not.
I'll let you know as soon as they arrive. I'm quite excited about this all again now :)
Adele
aka Fluffnco
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Adele
Once you get a little further back, I am sure we have some connections here.
I have lots of Aberdeenshire Mutches, with generations of Christinas/Christians. in the 1800's - and a history of illegitimacy and farming their kids out!
My great grandfather John Angus Mutch known as Wright, was born illegitimately to a Catherine Mutch. He was brought up by Catherine's aunt and uncle (Wright).
Catherine Mutch had a sister Christina/Christian b. 1860, so far too old to be your Christina. And their mother was Christian Mutch nee Duncan.
Can't see where the connection might be yet, but the places & names tie in with my research to date, so somewhere I think we'll find a match some day!
Regards
Ellen.
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WOOHOO!!! I feel like I have won the lottery!! :D
Received my grandmothers (Jeannie Hay Mutch) birth certificate back today and she was NOT born in Marnoch but in Inverkeithny!! How's that for tying loose ends up and what a fast turn around from ordering the certificates to actually receiving them too :D With hindsight I should have sent off for her birth certificate via direct telephone ordering the first time but you certainly live and learn
Kenjo I can't thank you enough for all the hard work you put in on my behalf. It's people like you that make this site what it is!!
Jeannie was born on 12th April 1921, Midtown of Haddo, Inverkeithny and only her mothers name is on the certificate. Her mother registered the birth on 2nd May of 1921. Think I can safely say that the Christina Adams (nee Mutch) you found is the correct one so I am totally over the moon. Let me know how much you spent on this and I'll reimburse you in full. I just can't believe you managed to not only pick the right Christina Mutch but also took her family lines so far back for me. My father is going to be delighted. Just got to wait until he returns from his 3 month extended break in Canada now to tell him the good news! :D
Ellen - I've not had a chance to search through the whole tree that Kenjo has sent to me yet but once I have I will contact you and we can look through our trees and compare. Could be that you are related to a sibling of one of my relatives which would be great :D
Wow! I'm so so thrilled!! hehe can you tell ;)
ok off to peruse my newest branches on my tree. will be in touch :)
Del
Aka Fluffnco
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Hi Del
Didn't you do well! ;D
Thanks for the update.
Best wishes
Ticker
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Hi Ticker
Was just bursting to tell everyone ;D
Certainly got my motivation back and my dad is just going to be thrilled.
After a lifetime of feeling he never had any 'real' family but his wife and kids he's now got a tree of relations going back a few hundred years and certainly must have living relations albeit distant that we can maybe contact and meet in the future (if they're willing to). I know this doesn't make up for the loss of his mum but it hopefully will go someway to giving him a sense of who he is and where he comes from which has got to be good :D
All I can say is this site is definitely the best I have ever come across and the people who make up the membership of Rootschat just Rock!!
The generosity shown to people who have hit a low in their research is just amazing. Certainly kenjo has gone way out of his/her way to not only search ( and pay for) information on my greatgrandmother but also on the whole line that my Great grandmother and her husband descended from. I can't think of another site where people are so willing to do that. I certainly wasn't expecting so much information but I am really grateful.
Thank you so much every single one of you
Del
aka Fluffnco
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Hi Del
Its stories like yours that make it all worth while. I'm really pleased for you.
I agree with you that kenjo is a star.
Keep us informed of developments.
Best wishes
Ticker
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Del
I am delighted for you.
Have just reread through the thread and am more convinced than ever that there must be a connection somewhere.
I am off on hols tomorrow however, for 10 days, so will not be able to give it much perusal till after then.
Also - a thought. I have found that with my illegitimate ones, that a middle name that looks like a surname usually is - that of the father!
eg; My John Angus Mutch, illegitimate son of Catherine Mutch, turned out,after a lot of searching, head scratching and swearing I might add, to be the son of Peter Angus. I have quite a few other examples of this.
So Hay could very well be Jeannie's dad's surname.
Good Luck. I'll be back on after my hols.
Cheers
Ellen.
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Hi Ellen
Thank you :)
I've not got through all of my new branches yet but have a couple of christian's/christines may even be a Catherine so looking forward to comparing. I have begun to put my extra branch on a private website I have and will let you know password to access it once you return from your Holiday. Let me know when you get back :) oh....one more thing....enjoy the hol :D
Oh btw...I'm in Wiltshire so not that far from you and I seem to remember a James Mutch who married a Penelope Duncan. Think they married in 1840 in Ellon. They had a daughter Christian (amongst many others) who was born in Logie Buchan in 1862. James and Penelope had 13 children :o got to be a link some where in amongst all these Mutch folk I have in my tree now ;)
Off to enter a few more of my rellies now :)
best wishes
Del
aka Fluffnco
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Hi Adele, fluffnco
Just an update.
I have only a few minutes on the Library PC.
Births
of what might be, but I presume, most likely, your William Adam and Christina Mutch. Your Dad's half Uncles and Aunts.
Note---- the births to 1930 have no mothers maiden name entered. so i am guessing that these are yours.
After that all the children are entered with Mutch as the mothers Maiden Name. anyway some of these may still be alive.
1925 Alexander Adam Inverkeithny index no 6
1927 Annie Webster Chalmers Adam Insch 16
1928 George Adam Inverkeithny 26
1929 William Adam Inverkeithny 6
1931 George John Adam Auchterless 30
1933 Mary Jane Adam Inverkeithny 13
1934 William Adams North Aberdeen 101
1935 James Adam Inverkeithny 7
1936 Annie Chalmers Adam Inverkeithny 12
1938 Alexander Adams North Aberdeen 1207
1943 Samuel Mutch Adam Turriff 132
1946 James Adam North Aberdeen. already have
In the MI
for Inverkeithny
Christina Mutch, 1946
William Adam 1978 [probably Christinas husband]
James Adam [presuming baby boy that died next day from mum 1946]
MI for Drumblade
John Michie Adam 8/6/1931
Alexander Adam 16/8/1937
[sandy]
Annie Chalmers 1/6/1946
Alexander Adam 25/5/1956.
I have children being born surname Adam and Mothers Surname Chalmers.
I haven't looked into it yet. but it will probably be ANNIE CHALMERS
AND ALEXANDER ADAM .
WILLIAM ADAM'S PARENTS.
I think there may be another family as wellwith these surnames together because they are having children right throughto 1939 and could go further.
, Anyway.
maybe you should post a fresh notice on these children of Christina Mutch and William Adam, to see if anyone knows them. I think I read you had deaths for christinas children, that might sort out why there are doubles.
bye for now.
kenjo ;D
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HI I'M NEW TO COMPUTERS SO YOU WILL HAVE TO BE PATIENT WITH ME.MY NAME IS WALTER STIRLING AND JEANNIE HAY STIRLING WAS MY MOTHER.AS YOU CAN IMAGINE I GOT QUITE A SHOCK WHEN I TYPED MY MOTHERS NAME IN AND YOUR PAGE CAME UP.I'M NOT SURE HOW THIS WORKS BUT COULD SOMEONE PLEASE GET IN TOUCH WITH ME
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Hello Walter :)
Sorry if you got a shock when you found my thread. I will send you a private message with my personal email address :)
Adele
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Hi, Fluffnco & Walter,
I am so pleased you have found each other.
I am tickled, that this has happened.
Del, I hope your Dad, will be over the moon, with having found, his siblings.
Fond regards,
kenjo ;)
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Hi Adele
I'm sorry you havn't been back in touch with me.I still havn't heard from your dad.Could you please send me the following information.
A copy of your dad & his brothers birth certificates or details from them.
The information you collected to confirm that my mum was their mum.
Also the information you have on Ellon or Evelyn you use different names on different sites.I'd like her date of birth if you know it,where & by who she was brought up.Where she lived when she contacted you or your dad & the information she gave you to confirm that that she was your dads sister & her mum was my mum.
Ive found out that during the war in the early 40s my mum Jeannie (Jean) Mutch worked at the Swynnerton Royal Ordnance factory in Staffordshire.She would have been in her late teens or early 20s at the time.If anyone knew her or know someone that knew her could they please get in touch with me.
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Hello Adele,
i just read your posting regarding Jeanie Hay Mutch who married in Dingwall on 21st March 1950 to a David Stirling.
i wondered if you knew who David Stirling's parents were? if they are John Stirling and Jessie m.s Fletcher, i may a few pieces of information for you. Jessie Fletcher was my grandfather's sister.
kind regards,
Lorna.
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Hi Lorna
I think it's me you should be addressing I'm David Stirling's son Walter.I can confirm that John Stirling & Jessie Fletcher were my Grandparents.Well I think that makes us second cousins. I'm very pleased to hear from you.
Thank you Walter
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hello Walter,
i will send you a p.m just now.
kind regards,
Lorna.
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Hello Lorna Darling, ;D ;D
Congratulations, on finding your cousin Walter,
How exciting for you both, 8)
regards,
Joanne. :-*
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thanks Kenjo.
i can't wait to tell my mum! then we will need to make a visit to my great aunt (niece of above mentioned jessie fletcher) and let her know the news too.
kind regards,
Lorna.
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HI I'M NEW TO COMPUTERS SO YOU WILL HAVE TO BE PATIENT WITH ME.MY NAME IS WALTER STIRLING AND JEANNIE HAY STIRLING WAS MY MOTHER.AS YOU CAN IMAGINE I GOT QUITE A SHOCK WHEN I TYPED MY MOTHERS NAME IN AND YOUR PAGE CAME UP.I'M NOT SURE HOW THIS WORKS BUT COULD SOMEONE PLEASE GET IN TOUCH WITH ME
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Hi Walter,
How are you?
Have you heard from your new family, yet?
Maybe, you should contact Adele, again if you haven't heard from her.
Regards,
kenjo :-\
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William Adam & Christina Mutch married on the 14th Feb 1925 in Aberdeen.
I am interested in finding out about the first twenty years of my mothers life.She was Jeannie Hay Mutch & her mother was the above Christina Mutch.I would like to know where she lived,who with,what school she went to & if she had any brothers or sisters linked to that marriage etc.Id like to hear from anyone who knew or knew of her especially any children or close relatives of the above.Any information would be appreciated.
also if anyone knows of any other JEANNIE(Jean,Jeanny,etc)HAY(H,May,M,etc)MUTCH living in the Banffshire,Aberdeen area in the late 30s early 40s could you please let me know thank you.
Walter
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William Adam & Christina Mutch married on the 14th Feb 1925 in Aberdeen.
I am interested in finding out about the first twenty years of my mothers life.She was Jeannie Hay Mutch & her mother was the above Christina Mutch.I would like to know where she lived,who with,what school she went to & if she had any brothers or sisters linked to that marriage etc.Id like to hear from anyone who knew or knew of her especially any children or close relatives of the above.Any information would be appreciated.
also if anyone knows of any other JEANNIE(Jean,Jeanny,etc)HAY(H,May,M,etc)MUTCH living in the Banffshire,Aberdeen area in the late 30s early 40s could you please let me know thank you.
Walter
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Hi Adele
Ive tried to email you but for some reason they keep getting returned.I came across your family tree on the genealogy web site.On it youv'e put John Riddell & my mother as married.They we're NEVER married.You also say that John Riddell was the father of Sandy,Evelyn.Edward & the fourth child unknown.He was definitely NOT the father of Evelyn & the fourth child Billy.I have the research to prove this & if you get in touch I'll give it to you.I really don't think you should put anything on you're family tree unless it has been thoroughly researched & known to be true as it can be upsetting & missleading to this & future generations.Ive been in touch with your dad a few times & hopefully we will meet when he returns from Canada.
Walter
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Unfortunately most Genealogy programmes do not have a way of showing that parents of a child are unwed or that children have a different parent from the other.
I will however try to update my site and put in there that they were not married. I was not aware that Evelyn and Billy had been added with John Riddell as their father. Again it will be down to the limitations of the programme I used to put the tree online. I don't have details of Evelyns parentage other than her mum nor for Billy but I will attempt to rectify this too and would be very greatful if you could send me any details to add to it. This may help the programme to actually upload the correct information :)
I agree it is misleading though and I'm very grateful you did point it out.
I have no idea why my messages are being bounced back. I'm not recieveing any notification of postings at the minute either. Will check that out now to see what is wrong.
Speak to you soon and I'm glad Dad eventually got in contact with you all too :)
hugs
Adele
x
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just as an update for any interested parties. Dad and walter and other family members have met up :) I'm so pleased that my research wasn't in vain and VERY happy that I now have new family members
thanks everyone who contributed here on rootschat in my research. you guys are definitely the best :)
Adele (aka Fluffnco)