RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: EmPers on Friday 10 September 04 00:10 BST (UK)
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I've often come across these websites offering free hosting for family trees, and allowing you to search for your relatives on them. I've always just ignored them and moved swiftly on. However, earlier this evening, I thought I would investigate some of these, so off I popped to RootsWeb, and put in some details of one of my ancestors, after a few tries, I got one, so I looked to see what the varous people had. I was amazed at the brilliantly researched tree, for example:
Thomas West, b.1797 m. Sarah b.1799
Children:
1. Sarah West, b.1802
Clearly this person has put a lot of effort into making this, particularly when you learn that by the time they were 30, Thomas and Sarah had great grandchildren.
Now I can vaguely see why people might not have researched their family properly, maybe they think that the evidence they have is really good, maybe they are so excited about finding a link to some famous family they forget to concrete over the links. And everyone makes mistakes sometimes, but to ignore basic facts of human biology? What actually is the point?
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Empers
Oh how I agree! There really are people who think that they can log on in the morning and have a well established tree by tea-time!
OK, I am exagerating, but for example, I did a look up for a lady who only knew her Grandparents names, but 3 months later she had posted a gedcom online with over 7000 names, including Danish Kings!!
Nuff said!
Rick
This sums it up really.......... http://members2.1stnetusa.com/~a/garbage/
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I've seen family trees (on LDS?) which include someone born BC123 etc! Either someone is having a laugh or they're one piece short of a census ::) ::) ::)
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Either someone is having a laugh or they're one piece short of a census ::) ::) ::)
Oh that made me laugh!! No need to guess what i'm going to be going around saying to everyone over the next few day!!
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Rick - thanks for directing us to that site. My dog was insisting that she was descended from Charlemagne. Now I can prove she is exaggerating.
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Hackstable
I have just done a quick check on the worldconnect site, and there are 2379 entries for Charlemagne. http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/
Worrying isn't it! Your dog isn't computer literate by any chance?
Rick
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No. She can't use a computer worth a damn. But she can count digestive biscuits.
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My carefully researched tree,which took me 10 years hard work and lots of money, was put on Rootsweb by someone else. He managed to make a lot of mistakes. Information I sent him said that Edmund born about 1670 was POSSIBLY the son of Thomas. I had worked out from the Parish registers that Thomas was son of Edmund and grandson of etc. This was all put on the site as gospel. This was all about 5 years ago. We exchanged many e-mails when I tried to put him right. He said in the end that it had made him ill. What about me?
Now I see the errors are on Genesconnected.
These trees, like the IGI, should be treated as a guide only.
Sylviaann
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My carefully researched tree,which took me 10 years hard work and lots of money, was put on Rootsweb by someone else. He managed to make a lot of mistakes. Information I sent him said that Edmund born about 1670 was POSSIBLY the son of Thomas. I had worked out from the Parish registers that Thomas was son of Edmund and grandson of etc. This was all put on the site as gospel. This was all about 5 years ago. We exchanged many e-mails when I tried to put him right. He said in the end that it had made him ill. What about me?
Now I see the errors are on Genesconnected.
These trees, like the IGI, should be treated as a guide only.
Sylviaann
Sylviaann
The problem is that there seems to be a new breed of family historian, who thinks that they can research their tree totally online, and if it is in black and white on a web page somewhere then it must be ok.
Like you I began all this a long time ago, and spent hours going through films at County Record Offices and I don't regret a minute of it! How unfulling it must be to tap into a ready made tree, especially if you don't bother to check it!
I am sorry to hear of your bad experience, and I had a similar one myself which made me take my tree offline. The whole thing has made me very suspicious of people who contact me via old postings. Sad really, but that seems to be the way of the world.
Rick
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I've seen family trees (on LDS?) which include someone born BC123 etc! Either someone is having a laugh or they're one piece short of a census ::) ::) ::)
Clincher
I couldn't resist playing in the worldconnect site and found 1227 entries for Adam and Eve on people's submitted databases!!!
Now.....I have absolutely no wish to offend any person of faith, but surely this must be faith, and not proven fact. Surely it would be absolutely impossible to produce a tree proving this????
Rick
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I also just found some on the world connect site, where people were claiming descendancy from Elizabeth I, who didn't have any children. And claims of Illegitimacy don't really work, people would notice if the Queen was pregnant I think....
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These people give us family historians a bad rep. I have spent a lot of time and money to find out about my family. I want to do them justice by trying to find out the real story of how I came to be. My ancestors were no one famous but I am on a journey to make their lives known to me and to future generations. Even if they were a tailor or ag laborer or iron worker or cotton weaver or the best is vermin catcher. Their lives are unique and they would be amazed that we care so much to know about them.
The high you get from finding and conifrming the "right" person cannot be found over night but after years of hard work. You can tell a person who is searching for their roots by the glazed over look in their eyes and the excitment they have when they open the mail and they have to tell everyone they know they found the "missing" link!
- Kristin ;D
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Kristin: the spirit that shines out of your words has made my day. I hope it is not always a long slog for you and that some of the time you catch 'em straight away
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Clincher,
Thank you for your kind words. You made my day! Sone are easier than others and I love them all!
- Kristin ;D
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I have had a few people contacting me re. my Walpole family in Norfolk --- mainly from America - who assume that because they have are a Walpole they are a descendant of 'your first prime minister! .... I have never been able to find a connection ......
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KathyM - the Walpoles of Prime Minister fame were quite a large family and, of course, from Norfolk. It should not be so hard to trace back any ancestry that applies to that period. It was after the Civil War so Parish Records should be available.
I wouldn't write off the possibility.
On the other hand there were lots of Walpoles who were not from Norfolk - Cambridgeshire being notable.
Hack
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I have used the IGI, although not extensivly, to create what a like to call a 'first draft' of my family tree. However, the vast majority of my information has been 'proven' using documentation and certification as well as colaborated information from fellow researchers. I just hope that people will contact me and speak with me before they use my first draft which I display on the net :'( It has happend before.
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An article in a recent US newspaper claimed that statistics have shown that the presidential candidate with the most connections to Royal families in Europe has won every election
They are prediciting Kerry to win this one claiming links to 42 different European Royal familes (including the prolific Charlemagne) compared to Bush's links.
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I always fancied that I might be a descendant of John of Gaunt [this is before I ever thought of Gen resaerch].
There are lots of people especially stateside who claim descent from John of Gaunt.
Anyhow I digress, I have found in the IGI, women bearing children at the age of 8 and 94.
Which brings me to another point, one of my co-workers found out that I was interested in genealogical research and brought in his family tree that had been researched by a 'professional' researcher. I offered to check some of the data for him, needless to say, most of the research had been done via the IGI, '81 census, VRI etc and a lot of it looked like guesswork. I dug further. I only got back as far as his g grandparents and discovered a BIG error, This 'professional' had assumed a birthdate without checking, I checked and found two people of the same name, christened 5 years apart in the same church, with entirely different parentage and unrelated, the researcher had chosen the wrong one!. so my friend had a tree that was 80% not his.
I corrected it all and my friend now has a tree going back[so far] to 1670 and free!
Has anybody else encountered shoddy work by researchers commercial or otherwise?
Tom G
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Hallo Tom, if someone hires a 'professional' to do a 'total' job I guess it is because the client is unable to do the job him/herself because he/she is (a) distant from the sources (especially if they are overseas) and/or (b) lacks time and/or (c) doubts his/her own skills. If all those circs exist the 'professional' might be tempted to cut corners and the client will probably never have a chance to verify the work. I hope that in the case of a qualified member of the Society of Genealogists that would never happen.
As I think I said earlier in this same thread I get too much fun/interest out of doing my own tree and, unless a special area of expertise were needed, I would never call in a pro. It follows that I have no personal experience of any shoddy work but you hear of others...
Changing the subject slightly in a fascinating UK Channel 4 TV prog a few days ago about the Peasants Revolt 1381, it was alleged that the financial plundering of one John of Gaunt was partly responsible for the peasants discontent......Not winding you up or anything :P but what do you know?
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Which reminds me of the joke............
'Sire,Sire, the peasnts are revolting!'
to which the reply
'The peasants have always been revolting'
Tom G
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The high you get from finding and conifrming the "right" person cannot be found over night but after years of hard work. You can tell a person who is searching for their roots by the glazed over look in their eyes and the excitment they have when they open the mail and they have to tell everyone they know they found the "missing" link!
- Kristin ;D
I know this is an old post but thought I would go through them all and see what there was.
Anyway I found this and sat there laughing to myself as this description is me! :o
I have a constant glazed over look and am always trying to work out the next road to look down if I have a brick wall across another. If I get any mail that is in an envelope with my own writing I know it is something of much greater importance than the gas or electric bill (lol my priorities there being - Family research,telephone (for the broadband) food, gas, electric, rates and any other bill that follows after)
" I want to do them justice by trying to find out the real story of how I came to be. My ancestors were no one famous but I am on a journey to make their lives known to me and to future generations. Even if they were a tailor or ag laborer or iron worker or cotton weaver or the best is vermin catcher. Their lives are unique and they would be amazed that we care so much to know about them. "
I also feel this way Kristen - they seem to come alive with each bit of info I find for them and especially with photos
Carol
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Carol,
Funny that you brought up my old post. I have been in a nit of a rut with my tree. Just no new leads and seem to be spinning my wheels in place. Nice to read and refresh myself on what I am doing with my tree. ;D
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I couldn't resist playing in the worldconnect site and found 1227 entries for Adam and Eve on people's submitted databases!!!
I take a strong dislike to anyone who makes such claims that they are descended from Royalty, and that they keep mentioning this connection frequently.
I choose to ignore anything further that they have to say or post.
BD
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Carol
Thanks for bringing up this post! I hadn't seen it before, and it is very relevant. I've enjoyed reading it.
Re people tracing ancestors to BC people, I had an LDS member tell me that she had done just that, one day when I was at the LDS. Yeah, right. I just smiled sweetly and said something like, "How interesting".
But I don't want to poke fun at the LDS; they are kind and helpful, and I don't know where I would be without them. The Director at my local centre, though, gets driven mad by genealidiots!! He told me that a woman came in one day and said she wanted to look for her Gran. He said, "Righto, what was your Gran's name?" She replied, "Oh, Gran - that's what I knew her as" :o ::) Head-banging time!!
MarieC
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I couldn't resist playing in the worldconnect site and found 1227 entries for Adam and Eve on people's submitted databases!!!
I take a strong dislike to anyone who makes such claims that they are descended from Royalty, and that they keep mentioning this connection frequently.
I choose to ignore anything further that they have to say or post.
BD
Hello fellow Rootschatters, I've just been reading all your posted messages and I heartily agree with all of you.
I had been trying to find a message I saw posted on one of those genforums think it was for Germany/Prussia wherein this guy reckoned he was King something or other the third (III) of Prussia. And boy did he get blasted by a genealogist who knew all about Prussia's history. Phew. Wish I could have found the link for you all ... but boy did I have a giggle.
I'm quite proud of all the farmers, convicts, agricultural labourers, yeomen, etc that I have in my tree. But more importantly, I feel for all the silent voices of women of whom you usually can't find anything about. Most often than not their names are usually "Mary unknown" or something like that. You know that they would have birthed maybe 10 or 13 live children (or more), and then ended up dying in childbirth with the last one ... with their husbands only to remarry so they could have someone to tend the children (and have more children).
http://scproductionsweb.tripod.com/
And I think about the high infant mortality rate, how all the dear little babies died of the simplest things, and all the heartbreak that that entailed. :'(
And I absolutely treasure the teensiest bits of information that I am able to dig up. Most especially the photographs, and I am forever grateful that there is a photograph restoration board on this site. As I have received some photographs in the most dreadful state, and somebody somewhere has been able to not only fix them, but make them colour as well. Truly amazing. :)
And when I hold the restored photo and look into my ancestors eyes, I feel like I have done something for them, and that they know. (Sorry, also the sign of a 'true' family historian.)
Allycat.
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I totally agree with most of what everyone has said here. There's nothing like finding the info out yourself, it beats using someone else's research into a cocked hat. I also agree about treating the trees on any of the free hosted sites with a great deal of caution.
Having said that, I do actually use Rootsweb to host my own family tree (as carefully researched as I am able to make it) as I find that their security is much better than (e.g.) GenesReunited, where you cannot cut out all the living people. It's what you make of it in the end, I have looked on all those sites and found other people looking for my ancestors, some a lot better researched than others, and contacted a couple of people with no reply.
On the other hand I have been contacted myself by someone who found an ancestor of his, who married someone in my tree, so hopefully I've managed to help him in his own research.
Veron :)
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Hi Veron, I too have my tree on http://www.GenesReunited.com.au and as there doesn't seem to be the facility to 'cut living people out', what I do is just type in the year of birth of living people, and for their name I put e.g. "LIVING Smith".
I also caution everyone who contacts me when they let me see their tree - not to have full dates of birth on the living or when the living were married. It would be all to easy for one unscrupulous person to use data on the living to another's disadvantage. And I'm 100% positive that all these people with the groaningly huge family trees in cyberspace haven't asked permission of their living relatives which the sites highly recommend. ;)
At least in comparison to rootsweb where anybody can view your tree, on GenesReunited you can with the click of a button, reduce the sharing of your tree so it's not all bad.
Allycat.
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What a thread, really gave me a laugh!!
I have to admit when I started I found that a couple of strands on my family tree were well researched and I have used them. However since then I am working my way through those strands and researching, double checking, correcting and adding to them.
I treated them as my foundation with which I am working. I have been able to correct a couple of wrong bits and add some other bits to this extensive research. On one name, I was able to add two strands together, for which one of the originators was very grateful.
Anyway I am rambling again but basically what I am saying is that it's ok using research already done but everything should be checked and verified by yourself and I don't mind when people do that with my tree either!
Kerry ;D
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Carol,
Funny that you brought up my old post. I have been in a nit of a rut with my tree. Just no new leads and seem to be spinning my wheels in place. Nice to read and refresh myself on what I am doing with my tree. ;D
It's amazing how the "old" posts can make you start thinking in another direction or make you start relooking in the direction you thought was going nowhere
Carol
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There is one particular website (I'm sure you know the one I mean) which allows you to add to family trees already on there. I discovered my ancestor's ancestors allegedly originated in England, then over several generations moved to Germany then to US then back to Lincolnshire, where they worked as Ag Labs.
Seems a bit unlikely to me ::)
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I agree with most of the comments on here. However, I don't think people should be knocked for researching on the net, if they do it properly. By this I mean using everything as a guide and through this ordering the relevant certs and using the census. Unfortunately, this can only be done after 1837 but not everyone has the ability to visit the parish records.
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Not when they are hundreds of miles away or in a different country!!!
Or me, I just don't want to visit London, I hate it, I'm a country chick!!!
Kerry ;D
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Reading some of the comments on this thread I felt quite uncomfortable. Roostchat for me is a place to come to for help and some of the judgemental comments seem a tad unkind. (Did I hear someone say "If the cap fits" ? - or was that just my consciounce?)
Living in Spain a trip to the parish registers / record offices just isn't viable most of the time, however I do try to back up what I find on the net by cross referencing as much as possible and with certificates (which is a bit expensive) where I can. However there comes a point where no amount of checking can prove 100% that I have the right relative.
When people are kind enough to share their findings I am always grateful,and check as much as I can.
In many cases the information to break brick walls has come through other kind rootschatters, especially before I had found my feet in checking out stuff for myself. There has to be a level of trust otherwise sites like this simply wouldn't exist.
Whilst there may be some people who just want to find a royal family in their line, give the others a chance. We all do what we can,and is the OH us real genealogists' attitude any better?
There are charletans in every walk of life, as well as those that are working their way through things.
Guess I'll get off my soapbox now,and hope I've not upset anyone nor been blackballed by anyone for disagreeing,
Cheers,
Mark
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Mark, I do agree with you. I think the net is a fantastic resource and I believe that you can make well reserached tree by using the net as long as you study the census material and buy the certs. There are a masses of reasons why a person can't visit the parish records and even if you do visit and study them, you can still go down the completely wrong track.
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And when Ancestry put all the parish registers online (ha ha) it will be even easier!!!!!!
Kerry (living in a dream world again!) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Yes Kerry,
The 1841 already has me glued to the PC, of they get the Parish registers on too soon I'll never leave this seat!!
Not sure about easier though - mistrascriptions always add to the puzzle, especially when you have double letters in the surnames you're after. ???
Mark
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You obviously missed my heavy irony!!!
Kerry ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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8) Sorry Kerry don't do heavy ironing - that's the other half's job
;D :D ;D :D
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Don't mention the 'I' word or we'll have Bob in Berlin after us ;D
Or me, I just don't want to visit London, I hate it, I'm a country chick!!!
...me too Kerry but I will make an exception for a trip to Kew :D
Most of my research has been done on the net, however it's cost me a fortune in certs and subscriptions not to mention the odd 25 or 30 quid here and there for copies of records. If I have something or someone on my tree that I can't corroborate I say so and make a note somewhere.
Talking of Parish Records, a fellow researcher has just sent me a list of baptisms which she copied from PR's recently, I'm trying to pluck up the courage to tell her that her Great Grandmother would have been 97 when she had her last child ???
Suey
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Reading the messages I don't believe that those who have made comments are intentionally disparaging all research done via the internet ... after all it is only one of the tools in our armoury and should be regarded as such.
Rather I believe that the comments are directed towards those who have succumbed to the theory "it's on the internet therefore it's true" without doing any checking ..... although some people will not accept the truth regardless of how many certificates you supply for them.
Personally being a sceptic, I double and triple check everything I've found or been given sometimes I've wasted my time on other occasions I've found flaws in the previous research (and on one occasion in my own ::) )
The internet is a way forward but it is only one of the ways and should never be accepted without some form of verification.
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We were always told to get three proofs before accepting someone into your tree.
I sometimes wonder how I managed to get back to 1670 before the internet? ::) I used the LDS. I went every week for 5 years to look at the films of the parish registers. This is the only way to check things if you cannot get to the area you are researching. Doesn't cost much either. I've got a bit lazy now so I fork out to get copies of baptisms/marriages from the record offices. That is after I have tried all the free things.
Sylviaann
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I have recently started visiting my local records office and I have to say it is a lot of fun. Reading PR's can be a bit tedious but when you find something and prove a person's existence it's every bit as exciting as finding something on the net.
You just have to remember not to get excited too loudly!!!
Mark - Ironing is not my job in this house!!!!!! 8) 8)
Kerry ;D
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My Paternal Grandfather had researched some
of my Family History, thirty five years ago, so when
I started about the same time (35 years ago) I
decided of course to start from what I knew Myself,
My Parents, Grandparents etc.
The I decided to check my Grandfathers notes and
wow! it was correct, How he did it in them days
I have no idea!.
The only Thing I cant prove (yet) is the connection
to James Hargreaves (inventor born Stanhill)
but I have recently found a direct ancestor whos
maiden name was Hargreaves, so it as become
possible. He did have the connection written on a
scrap of paper but sadly I lost that in the midst
of time.
Well I can live in hope!
Jinks
PS No relation to Royalty or Thor and Odin
(That I know) ::)
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Hi Jinks -
Your James HARGREAVES , inventor, could be related to newly found cousins on my RAMSDEN side. They are decendents of the inventor of the spinning jenny as I said in my PM to you... sorry about not understanding the limits on the PMs.. At any rate, thought maybe my connections to HARGREAVES could help you solve your link mystery... 8)
And from what they tell me, a link to the original Alice of the Alice in Wonderland story! Don'tcha just love these stories !
Marilyn
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When My Grandfather told me about the link with
James Hargreaves (the Inventor) I was 9, so
I said how we dont have the surname in the
family, in due course I found the surname exactly
when he stated (which generation)!!
so far so good but she was born Mellor, I have now
found her father born Little Harwood, so still not
at Stanhill.
You probably know that James Hargreaves actually
died in a workhouse in Nottingham, but his
daughters did marry Lancashire Lads, ie. From
Manchester area.
From the research I have so far (IF I am related it will
be indirectly) maybe through an Uncle.
James Hargreaves as far as I am aware only had
one sister.
Jinks
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Many exceptionally well researched family trees tend to appear on the famous site mention of which I believe has been carefully avoided already in this thread.
I recently made contact with somebody who had my ancestors on their tree. They suggested that they would be pleased to hear if they had their facts correct and to hear about any errors. I discovered that I really shouldn't exist since they had my direct ancestor married to another lady.
Yes I pointed this out, plus an additional couple of siblings who were impossibly connected and who appeared to have a father with a totally different occupation to that of the others.
Should I be surprised that since I told them this they have not been in contact with me? Do they just want to believe their own errors?
Suddenly there was another contact on the same site, who allowed me access to their tree without making any comment, I did find the same error. Their tree was very large and I could find no connection between my family and the poster, however I did find the names of the first contact in the tree, so maybe they know each other??
I had a wander around this tree to see whether there were any sources listed, none of course but I found a branch quite interesting -
Abraham was born 1798
His father was William born 1779 and his mother Elizabeth born 1805
This William's parents were William born 1911 and mother Unknown Mary born 1911 (he also had another wife, Mary again born 1889)
Even if it was a slip of the finger and typo should be 1711, I have my doubts that a 68 year old woman would have a baby!!!!!!!!!
Where DO these people get this stuff from!
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Yes...I found what seemed to be a close match on a family tree posted on ancestry. When I looked, my relative born in 1839 had married someone born in 1562! Needless to say, I didn't learn a lot!
That said, I have discovered a great deal from "relatives" I have found on various sites and been more than happy to share information. I think you develop an instinct for whom you can trust and, if you have done some work yourself, you are usually in a good position to make a valid judgement.
Parts of my tree do read - A Relative b 1842 etc but I am trying to fill the gaps! I'm not wealthy enough to buy all the certificates but enjoy sifting through Parish Records and wandering around graveyards!
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oh, by the way, where can I get the census returns for BC101?
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oh, by the way, where can I get the census returns for BC101?
I think they were destroyed when Attila sacked Rome and those for 1AD were lost by Pontius Pilate when returning to Rome on an unseaworthy galley. Pity ::)
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That's why I can't find my ancestor! Thought I found him on the BC91 census though.
On a more serious note, I am spitting blood tonight! A few weeks ago through a well known site, a reasonably close relative made contact and I gave her details about the family.
I've just looked on said site and find everything I've done posted there. I've never even had a thank you nevermind information about that side of the family! Not even a reply so I am furious.
Now I'll help anyone but a "thank you" is always nice. Soooo.....I'm going to add some bogus details to said site and see if they get copied too!
aarrghhhh! Sorry, had to let off steam somewhere!
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Ian.....vent away.....
Some one "aquired " my 4x great grandfather and claimed him as their own. I did contact them to point out the error all I got was a rather short "are you sure?" The error is still on their tree and they won't answer e-mails. Some people want it too easy and milk the hard work of others. I spent £28 on certs and have all the proof about MY James from birth to death.
I know I am right so I will watch to see what else gets added to the other tree .....hmmmm I wonder :o (sneaky ideas at the ready)
Tazzie 8)
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My dog was insisting that she was descended from Charlemagne. Now I can prove she is exaggerating.
My cat is definitely better bred than me. Although she does think we're her parents, she's beginning to suspect the truth - she's actually adopted. I just hope she doesn't go looking for her real mum.
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I have found this thread really interesting, no honestly i have.
My wife and I (mainly the wife more recently due to work etc) have been working on the family history for about 6 or 7 months. Yes we are new to this arent we.
We have conducted everything online to date (4 kids below the age of 7 dictate that) but we have been very strict and only add members to the tree if we can find the evidence to corroborate the link.
There have been many occasions where we could have been tempted to just accept the 'guesswork' and fly off into the distant past, but that isnt the point is it.
The biggest surprise for us is the unbelievably bad evidencing from seemingly 'expert' or 'experienced' family historians.
The worst of it is the attitiude that some have about us newbies and the assumption that we are in it for an easy job, thats simply not true.
Yes we are working almost fully online at present and yes we are starting to hit problems. But thats the best bit for us, we have a puzzle to solve and it WILL need us to go out and about.
We have certificates proving EVERY person and EVERY link on our tree and we have many that DISPROVE links but theyre just as valuable arent they.
The are annoying pillocks who dont evidence their findings who have even contacted us to point out errors on our tree. When we prove our work, which is done by PDF copies of certs if need be, there is a stoney email silence.
Another worrying aspect is the fact that we were offered the services of a professional genealogist who made a few 'suggestions' about our tree. Ha! What a chancer - we were right and he was way off the mark but would he listen, nope. So gosh knows what his clients are getting in exchange for £20per hour!
Well now i do feel better after that, ahhhh.
Anyway lets not get too down about the fools that are out there.
Perhaps we should start a capaign for laws that require trees to be evidenced before being pubished in any format. That way we could sue for mispreprentation of our history. Just a thought.
Andy
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....and there is the satisfaction of doing it yourself!
Sure, I've had imput from other members of the family but I've checked it carefully before adding to my tree.
As previously said, I haven't bought that many certificates (although I have inherited a good few) but I've spent hours studying census returns and walking round graveyards.
To be honest, I've had a lot of help from relatives but others have just taken my work and passed it off as their own. I don't mind that even if they at least bother to say "Thank you".
Anyway, I'm going to add a few extra relatives on a particular site just to see what happens!
Sorry...still so angry.
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That was quick....my bogus relative has been added already! And to think that today would be his 277th birthday!
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That was quick....my bogus relative has been added already! And to think that today would be his 277th birthday!
Satisfaction ;D ;D
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Yes, but I feel quite bad about it!
Still, I did offer to send proof (about the rest of the tree) and had no response so not my problem!
On same site, I have some good contacts who will check back with me so maybe I don't feel quite so bad!
It just annoys me that people will take your work at face value and although I am confident, I've got most right, there must always be some doubt with some connections!
Still....all part of the learning curve.
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I started to research my family history way back in a 1979, when I was about 14 years old and my Mum was interested in it all.
We had no internet, no local family history society and no LDS research centre. We hand wrote all our letters, had no credit card so had to save up and either buy bank cheques in Pound Sterling or find a bank that would get English currency in for us to exchange Aussie Dollars for. We relied on people in the UK, who we found when we wrote to various Libraries, County Council Offices etc, to search Parish Records and graveyards for us, and made the occassional expensive trip down to Brisbane when we learned about the existence of the Genealogical Society.
AND we loved every minute of it. The time it took was part of the anticipation of it all, waiting weeks and weeks for return letters and certificates in the mail.
I still love every minute of it, but I do use much more efficient methods these days. My internet connection has been a godsend, and my credit card gets a fair bit of use. I still refuse to put my tree online but do have the some basic information regarding the surnames, dates and places out there in cyberspace to make others aware of my interests.
I only pass along information when I have proof of relationship and never send photos or copies of certificates until I know that the recipient will respect them for what they are - very personal sources of information. Perhaps that makes me selfish in some people's eyes, but I feel quite possessive of these people from whom I am decended and I won't share them with just anybody. I would not like to see my children on the wrong family tree, so why should I feel any less so about my gr gr gr grandparents?
To date I have been extremely lucky in that all the people who have contacted me, or whom I have contacted, via various internet sites, have been legit and willing to share. I have found some distant relatives who have become friends, and hope to find some more.
Instant gratification is all well and good, but sometimes good things are worth waiting for.
Thanks for letting me vent
Karenlee
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You guys are scaring me. :o I guess I am one of those trusting soles who figures that others searching their ancestry are just a serious about it as I am.
I do enjoy these sites to find living rellies who have info on brothers or sisters of my direct lines. The stories really fill in some of the gaps and add color to an otherwise black and white ancestry. I have met new cousins and together maybe we can solve some of the family history that is a real mystery. We have shared photos and now have names for some of the subjects who were previously nameless. 8)
I will, however, approach with lots of caution after reading about some of your dealings with others. I do so enjoy this site. The knowledge shared here is priceless.
AND TO JINKS -
- re Hargreaves - I don't recognize the name Mellor. I will contact my cousin and see if they have that name in their tree. I found a site about the Hilden textile company the other night and they give a short background story about their ancestry being directly from James Hargreaves, inventor. You might check it out on google.
And, thanks again, all of you ;D
M
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Hello Karenlee,
Just happened to see your surname interest in Lancashire of BIRD...
My Helen BAIRD of Ashton Under Lyne, Lancashire was listed as Helen BIRD on free BMD for her marriage to William RAMSDEN in 1846...She was born in Kirkcudbright, Scotland.
Have you come across the two names being mixed up like this in your searchs?
M
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Hi M
Heavens, don't let us put you off at all. :(
I don't doubt that everyone who starts to trace their family history is enthusiastic and very serious. Unfortunately some just don't understand the need for verification of information before they accept it as fact. Most of us learn the hard way and become a little more cautious about accepting what others present us. Some don't and just take what is given without question.
It sounds as though you have been very lucky with your contacts and have managed to avoid being given incorrect information. I too love going through those sites that may prove useful and I do make contact occassionally. This site in particular is wonderful for advice and assistance, some of which I have been able to provide to others in the past and will continue to do so for as long as possible.
As to the BIRD family that you ask about. I know a little about my BIRDS from Parish Registers, and they all came from Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire, moved to Youlgreave, Derbyshire , and then back to Salford, Lancashire. I have an Elizabeth BIRD baptised 28 Sept 1792 Kirkby Ireleth, to Thomas BIRD and Sarah nee JACKSON. Elizabeth married John FOGG in Youlgreave 3 June 1816. Known siblings of Elizabeth were Sarah, Thomas, Robert and Mary all baptised Kirkby Ireleth. Thomas, Robert and Mary all died in infancy. There were a couple of BIRD families in the Kirkby area. I don't know about any from Scotland though, sorry.
Cheers
Karenlee
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Re: Received Family History Data.
I always (try!) to follow the Old Newspaper Reporters '3-Proofs Rule'!
Some (well known!) Reporters have Missed Out on (What Turn Out to be) BIG! Stories by Sticking Religiously to this Rule, but Always stated after the fact that that They would Rather Check Their Facts (Properly) Before putting them In Print with Their Name Attached, Than leave Themselves Open to Accusations of being Less than Truthfull! in what they Print! ::)
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Thanks Karenlee, re BIRDS.
My Helen BAIRD/BIRD was born Kirkcudbright 1824 , her Mum, Nicholas BAIRD (maiden name unknown - may be CAIRNS) was born c 1798 in Scotland. According to my Grannys notes on the family, the BAIRDS were of the Clan Baird of Gartsherrie. However, I have yet to figure it out. Being that I love puzzles, I will have a grand time trying. ;D
Thanks for the encouragement. Have I told anyone ...
I LOVE THIS SITE 8) and yes, I AM YELLING ! M
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In today's online New York Times there is an article about how some people are stalking others who are thought to be 'in their tree' with a view to getting DNA samples to enable the link to be confirmed or not.
One of them thinks she is linked to Saint Luke the Evangelist......mmmmm ::)
and is waiting for the Vatican to allow access to his remains....
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"Stalking the Dead"
- Nice name for a website !
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That is unreal ! ::) Whatever it is, someone is always going to take it to the max... boy oh boy...
I, for one, will be documenting. And, yes, that is a good name for a web site ;D
Nite all - M
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Somtimes you just can't believe what you read!!!
Last night on Ancestry I found a 'tree' on there of a family I am researching. After many weeks/months of sending for certificates and confirming details....I read that it is all wrong !!! Apparently my 'man' married four times....the last time to his third wife's daughter (his step-daughter) who was over twenty years younger than him ...I know it is feasible.......
In fact I COULD TELL THEM it was actually his nephew (with the same name who married this lady!.....
but they probably wouldn't like it!
It looks like they had picked up the marriage details from Freebmd...not checked the details.by sending for the certificate.....like the name of the father of the groom!!!, ages etc....
I know this all takes time and money....but really there are not many shortcuts!!
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Another of my hobbies is writing and I've been thinking of making up a few family trees on my Generations software, on which I could base some stories or even a novel or two. The only thing that worried me slightly was the admittedly remote chance of the "pretend" trees accidentally getting onto Ancestry and leading countless people up the garden path. I'm still going to do it, but the fictional trees are going to be clearly marked as such . . . ;D
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What a great idea MrsLizzy, I wish you good luck in your endeavours and hope that we can read the end results of your labours. Will be interested to see if anyone picks up on your "fake trees" and tries to do something with them, as some people just don't seem to read things too well these days.
Cheers
Karenlee
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I recently had a query from someone who had just started researching one of my family names, with a "Can you help?" at the end.
The person concerned was looking for information about Susannah, who married in 1811. Her father, they thought, was William, born in 1760. They were hoping to find that her grandparents were Phineas and Jane, who married in 1781.
I was able to tell them that Phineas was born in 1759! I won't be adding them to my family tree!!
Regards, Bill
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Great idea, MrsLizzy!, go for it ! I would read it for sure.. 8)
I envy anyone who can write stories.
Re your family tree, Bill, isn't it amazing how folks don't use math anymore.
I was having lots of trouble with historical dates. Wish I had paid a little more attention in my history classes.. :P
I realized it would help me view the lives of my ancestors better if I had some sort of historical timeline taped to the wall and put little flags ID'ing my family members along the way. Haven't done it yet, but as I am getting more involved with different countries and tree branches, I can see it will be a must do. As it is, my pc area is starting to look like a command center ::)
M
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M.
"my pc area is starting to look like a command center " ::)
Only 'Starting to Look Like'! You need More Practice! ::) ;)
Mine is (sometimes) looking like a newHounds Office (After a Bomb has Hit It!) :o ::) ;D ;D
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Hi all
Off again on a tangent but what do you think about this -
"Good friend of the family" - I have never met this person, has placed some of my family history on her website. Found the site about three or four years ago but as it didn't have very much info and much of it 'guess work' I dismissed it. However last year I decided to email this person and perhaps find out where she fitted it. Turns out she was doing the site for the daughter of my dad's cousin. The relative has informed me genealogy is not one of her interests ???
The site is full of copy and paste from directories, family history sites and free bdm. A great deal of the info is not connected to my family. A little annoyed to find that responses to my requests on forums, have also been copied and pasted. I note that the copied census returns have been removed.
I have informed this person that I strongly object to her detailing the area in which my 96 year old dad, my 90 year old uncle, my cousin and myself and our families reside. We live in a remote area of Australia and I have had numerous comments about this website as it names the locality.
She has not responded to my query - why doesn't she detail the 'cousin's family'?
Perhaps I would not object so strongly if the information was correct. I have detailed the errors on the site and to date nothing has been corrected. So we now have lists of possible convicts, possible felons and other possible emigrants with our family name. Watch - if you have my family name you may end up as named on this website.
So b....... frustrating. I fail to understand why the website exists at all.
I note this am that the link has been removed from this person's blog page but the web page comes up if you search the family name and then 'google'.
Cheers
Cando but at the moment feel I can't >:(
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What an interesting topic. I learnt a few things and I had many laughs. ;D What a hoot !! Thanks everyone.
Allycat -
I read that article about Silent Voices and I was deeply touched and also very interested to learn more. I am writing a book (which I hope will be inspirational) and I am trying to find information about why the nuns were so cruel. I knew it had something to do with their reasons for being pushed into convent life, because not many of them were really there of their own accord, no vocation, as such. Thank you for that article and if you come across anymore I would be eternally grateful.
CP
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Well,Iv'e read through all the post,s,and admit to being a hunter/gatherer,"Google' dependant name collector,and a drain on "Rootschat" resource,s.
I make no apology for this,my confuser was bought 2002,a year was spent in wonder/cyberspace.
Family history site,s were disembowelled for reliability,and all found wanting.
One G'Mother was decided upon as my sole faltering excursion into the Genealogical jungle.No idea of where or when born,marriage date,etc;one piece of fact to work from,a street in Waterford Ireland,my Mother,s birth cert;Father,s name and occupation,no witnesses,no sponsor,s AND NO HOUSE NUMBER!!But,
I did have her surname,YOICK,S,Tally ho,whatever you may say.
So began my avowed admission(,not yet completed in her favour).Then,tackle the prob from another angle,right?So on and so on and pillickin'so forth!!
Six notebook,s of the two name,s in my S.I.T and who know,s?One day the key will be given inot earned.
Alway,s using peripheral vision.
Goggy. ;) ;D
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I am trying to find information about why the nuns were so cruel. CP
My ex sister in law was educated by nuns - although she didn't say a great deal about it, she did tell me about some quite unacceptable behaviour by the nuns - including verbal and physical abuse. I've heard of some cases where nuns who weren't "children people" were made to work with children as a kind of long term penance - a sort of - "great, let's make you spend your life doing something you hate, it should be really good for your character/soul".
On the other hand, my sister in law did want to send her only child to a convent school which had a reputation for giving the children a really good education. My brother wouldn't agree because he didn't want his daughter indoctrinated with Catholicism. I don't often find myself agreeing with both sides in an argument but I could see both points of view in this case. My brother thought if his daughter was intelligent (which she is) she would do just as well at any school - with which I disagree quite strongly!
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I've heard of some cases where nuns who weren't "children people" were made to work with children as a kind of long term penance - a sort of - "great, let's make you spend your life doing something you hate, it should be really good for your character/soul".
Hi MrsLizzy,
I think this might now be considered "Off Topic"; maybe I should start a new topic on this subject but I'm not sure the Moderators would allow that. I don't wish to start a "religious war". ;D LOL
I am very aware of the cruelty in all forms because I was at the receiving end myself. My aim in writing this book is to give the reader some rational explanation as to why the harsh methods of discipline and control were used. Many people cannot comprehend that these atrocities were allowed to happen and continue for many years, undetected. Many are still asking "why were they so cruel?". It all boils down to the Mission and Ministry of that particular Order of Nuns, which documents that "our belief in the dignity and sacredness of life ensures the use of "natural means" to protect that life".
As a victim and the author of this book I need to present an unbiaised view and believe me, it's not an easy task.
I would be grateful if anyone would like to share their thoughts on this subject, bearing in mind that I am only looking for logical explanations. I do not wish to start a "Holy War". ;D
My Genealogy, of course, always remains my No. 1 Priority. ;)
Hugs
CP
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Cando
I found some of my living relatives on a website
(Great Website actually) all information the same as mine ;D
except more than I had , I have helped the gentleman concerned I hope with more information
but I asked politely if my Great Aunt could just be
listed as - living.
He kindly obliged so why do you not mention this
option.
i.e. No details of the area etc.
Jinks
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I was contacted by a 2nd Cousin (through an old email addy that I used to register on a Site when I first went online Many Years Ago!).
Good job I had Forgotten to Delete the old addy, I would Never have been able to find this Cousin (Bn: South Africa, Married: South Africa, Now Living in USA!) ::) ;) ;D ;D ;D
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I couldn’t resist adding some experiences of my own.
One lady told me one day she had found information on my family from Glasgow. She then gave me a link to a site that mentioned “John Elder Shipping”. I thanked her, and explained to her that I had no connection to that family, even though my grandfather’s name was “John Elder”. As she seemed a little confused about why I would dismiss this so quickly, I had to explain to her that my grandfather lived in Glasgow alright, but was a labourer living in a tenement, and not a shipping magnet.
Another person told me that they met a “Baskerville” once, (my maiden name.) and that he was one of the nicest people you could ever meet. I didn’t really know what that had to do with my family history, but…. I thanked her anyway.
I have had people ask me why their relatives arrived in Canada when they wanted to live in the U.S. (How do you answer that?) I tried to think of reasons, proximity to destination, and/or price of ticket… I don’t think they liked the answers, but I honestly don’t know what was going through the mind of their relative.
I have had one person tell me their relative moved to Toronto, Ontario, proceeded to tell me their name and then asked if I had ever heard of them. I had to explain very nicely, that I hadn’t met everyone yet.
My favourite email was a woman who asked for some help in solving her family mystery (not history, because she apparently knew that). She had tried on numerous occasions to find links to her family in Scotland, but couldn’t make any connections. Although I can’t remember the name off hand, it was a name like Coll. She explained that even though most of the information that was found was in the name Mac/Mc Coll that they couldn’t be of her family, as she originates from the “original” Coll clan and not one of the “sons of”. What puzzles me most is… how old is she?
Could there be “Royals” in my line? Maybe! I have certainly found enough “illegitimate” births. Surely, at least one could have been a roaming Royal. (More than likely, it would have been the Coachman’s second cousin twice removed.)
As far as researching on the Internet, I have no choice, as I research relatives overseas from Canada. I have always liked using sites like Scotlands People, Freebmd, or Ancestry, (where I can check the actual copy). Although the LDS site is a great help, people should always remember to check the actual copies. (Never take a person’s “uploaded” family history as being the real thing).
One of the great things that has transpired on the Internet for subjects such as Family History, is this site. We can post questions to others that may be able to find the answers, or at least give us good advice on what to try next.
Let’s not knock the Internet too much, as every one of us is using it to help us with our family histories. How we use the information we find, is what makes the difference. I have been fortunate in finding a few relatives online, that I never would have found otherwise.
Here is a perfect example of what the internet can do,
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,101535.0.html
Janice :)
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I have had people ask me why their relatives arrived in Canada when they wanted to live in the U.S. (How do you answer that?) I tried to think of reasons, proximity to destination, and/or price of ticket? I don?t think they liked the answers, but I honestly don?t know what was going through the mind of their relative.
Janice :)
Some of my Irish ancestors went this route. The family story is that they were "wanted" in Ireland and apparently it was easier to get into Canada - all part of the Empire? They were later smuggled into USA to join the rest of the family. I haven't found any way of verifying this information.
You could suggest this possibility to people but they probably won't like this option either!
Monica
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Monica,
It was easier! Apparently people weren't checked out quite as well as they were in the U.S. :P
Do I want to tell them that? Hmm... not me! ;D ;D ;)
Janice
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There's one man who's got me down as having permission to see his tree on GR, although I've never asked for it and don't want it. He contacted me to ask if one of my Phillips relatives was the same person as one of this, although they had different first names and were married to men with different names, AND mine lived in London while his lived elsewhere. I did explain all this but I think he's forgotten to remove me. It's nice of people to take the trouble to check for a connection even if it does seem unlikely - unfortunately Phillips is such a common name and I know I've felt desperate to make some progress in the past. Luckily my brother took them over and made HUGE progress in very short order! The show-off! ;D
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Some folks just have the knack. A new set of eyes looking at the old info in a different light.... hummmm , poetic...
Pegasus -
Oh, the horror of finding out that I need more practice with cluttering up my pc area. Can't believe it could get worse than it is ! :o
YIPES !
M