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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: terrypin on Sunday 11 December 05 14:58 GMT (UK)
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Four weeks into the hobby and I've just encountered my first change of surname in one branch of my tree. The respective England censuses show the following:
1901 COTTERILL
1891 (Can't find, but assume COTTERILL)
1881 COTTERILL
1871 COTTRELL
1861 COTTRELL
1851 COTTRILL
What is the best way to record these please? Especially in a PC-based family tree, where a change in one place ripples through other entries. I use Family Tree Maker, but I assume it's a general issue whatever package is used?
For example, I had previously shown John Cottrell (b. 1817 in Birmingham) as John Cotterill, and his children as Cotterill. If I now change him to Cottrell to square with the 1871 records, and also change his children too, I'd have thought I'd be inviting all sorts of ambiguity?
I'd be interested to hear how others handle such changes over the generations please.
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Terry, West Sussex, UK
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Hi Terry
I know that people handle this in different ways but in my trees I stick to just the one spelling to make sorting and finding easier. In many instances, there wasn't a set pattern to the spelling as there is today due to many of our ancestors being illiterate and the names being written as they sounded to the registrar, census enumerator or parish clerk. We'll all bound to come across branches of a family who say their name has ALWAYS been spelt a particular way but it won't be true in far the majority of cases ;)
Best wishes
Casalguidi
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Hi Terry
What a strange coincidence I find the spelling of my Cottrell family from West Sussex varies in the same way.
I use PAF 5 and I find I can overcome the change in name by including the variation in square brackets after the accepted spelling eg. Cottrell [Cotterill].
Regards Linda
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Hi Terry,
My Newall's change from Newall, to Newell, Newhall to Newel all the time, they can get married in one spelling have a child christened with another and be yet another on the census. I long ago decided to keep them all Newall until they get to my husbands grandfather where the name changed permanently to the Newell spelling. It's a tricky one.
Siouxzie
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I stick to one spelling but in the notes section I put the surname as found either on the census or birth marriage or death certificate.
I have several Knapps who were mistranscribed in the census so keeping a note of the surname allows me or anyone who comes after to find them again.
Suey
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I have so far found 35 spelling variants for one name so I usually stick with the first one I find and when searching try to remember all the others!
Jill
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Hi Terry
like suey I stick to the one spelling and put the different variantions in the notes section, I find that this works really well, and I don't confuse myself or my family tree program, as it seems to get a little touchy if I don't write the name with the original spelling.
jericho
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Same with me. I record one name but make a note of the original spelling.
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Thanks all, those replies were very helpful. Pleased to see it's a common issue.
Somewhere else in these archives I saw a recommendation to consistently use the surname on the birth certificate. That sounded a good idea to me - until I realised I didn't have the appropriate certificates. ;)
I think I'll do the same as several respondents: stick to one name (in this case, COTTRELL, the name recognised by my living relatives), and use notes (or similar) to record the variations. Happily, I now see that FTM doesn't use the precise surname to maintain correct relationships throughout the generations.
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Terry, West Sussex, UK
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Hi Terry,
What one does probably depends on a few things including what program one is using, how many people are involved, how many variable spellings of a name one has found, and perhaps whether one standard spelling exists in the present day.
I have many names with variable spellings (for one I've found about 90 different spellings and still counting).
I make a practice of recording each person's primary name under the spelling of the earliest record I have - sometimes that will be a birth certificate, sometimes a baptism, sometimes a marriage, etc, etc.
But I also record as a name variation in my program, every variant spelling under which the person has appeared - and that ensures that they will appear in an alphabetical list of people in my program under every variant.
Then I also add what I call an index name. For instance, for every person with the name which has the 90 or so variants (ranging through McLause, McLaws, Maclehose, Hose, Hozier, etc, etc - and with people chopping and changing throughout their lives), I also record them under the 'made up' name McLs.
That ensures that every person of this very variable name will appear in an alphabetical list of people under their primary name (which is starred in such a list) and under any variant names AND that they will also all be listed in order of forename under the 'made up' index name.
It certainly makes finding them much easier!
I follow the same system for other variant names e.g. Trippet, Trippit, Tripit, Trippett, Trippitt etc - as well as their primary name and any variants, I give them a 'made up' name of Trpt.
To each his or her own ...
JAP
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Just a thought:
The Reunion Program used for Macs. gives children the surname of their fathers but a change can be implemented in any generation by altering the assigned form of the surname. In my husband's relatively small family there are several variations used by descendants in various locations and the program keeps them all connected to their roots.
I understand that illiteracy was a factor in the past which created variety, but in the present one must honour the name forms currently used without denying common heritage.
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JAP, Elizabeth,
Thanks both, appreciate those follow-ups.
My next step is to experiment with FTM 2006 to see how it copes with some of these alternative approaches. Unless I've missed it, I haven't found the issue covered in its Help documentation.
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Terry, West Sussex, UK
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Terry, West Sussex, UK
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Hi again Terry,
The program I use is TMG (The Master Genealogist). It is said that it's so flexible that about the only thing one can't change is its name!! Elizabeth, sorry, there isn't a version for Macs (my major criticism of TMG!!).
It is a VERY powerful program - probably (certainly?) the most powerful and flexible genealogical program there is.
BUT, I have to tell you, it hasn't to date (as far as I know) come up with a solution to the problem you pose. ::)
And don't think for even one minute that TMG Users haven't posed the problem and proposed solutions - and, oh boy, are the TMG Users a vocal, creative and persistent lot :o
Just try the specialist Rootsweb TMG-L and be overwhelmed!
JAP
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Terry - presuming FTM 2006 isn't too different from 2005, which I use, you can record one "preferred" name and one AKA (under "edit individual details") which will both show up in the index. You can add alternative names in the "facts" or individual notes, but these won't show up in the index.
Like several others here, I generally use the birth/baptism name as the basic name, but add the standard modern spelling (if necessary) as the AKA to simplify finding people in our very large file. However, whatever solution you choose, Murphy's law kicks in, and you're bound to find exceptions!
Rambler
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Hi Rambler,
That's very interesting!
As I understand what you say, it seems that some programs put a limit on the number of variant names one can index. TMG doesn't - you can have as many variant names as you choose and all will show up in the index. And if, as I do, you also index the people under a fake (hopefully never real) surname, they will also all appear in forename alpha order under that fake name.
That's absolutely great when one is searching for a name regardless of spelling.
And avoids Murphy's Law (I think).
But there's one major problem - if one is searching for (say) Janet McLAWS b ca 1800 +/- 20 years and does so using the fake 'index' name McLs, each time one looks at a person and then reverts to the index, one lands on the primary name - aaaargh!
JAP
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I don't know about other programs - just FTM. I guess every program has its strengths and weaknesses - I've seen a couple which look interesting for different reasons, but stick to the one I started with (almost by accident!) out of inertia... ;)
Although an indefinite number of surname variants won't show up in the FTM index (at least, not in my version), there is a way of getting round this by creating an "alternate facts report" - slightly cumbersome, but has the advantage of not clogging up the index if you have a large database. Ours has emigrant branches of my husband's Swiss family, and the name variations there have to be seen to be believed!
Rambler
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Dear Rambler,
Last thing I want to get into is an argy-bargy on my program's better than anyone else's program ... ;D
But just as a point of info, TMG of course allows one to filter (i.e. not clog up) almost anything ... though how to do so might not be immediately obvious.
And no, before anyone asks, I wouldn't recommend TMG unreservedly - it is far from the easiest program in the world to come to terms with (just the best!!! - IMHO).
And I would add that virtually every genie program is good and that virtually all of them do most of the same things very effectively - it is simply a question of what suits the individual user.
Best regards,
JAP
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The problem I still haven't resolved satisfactorily isn't a problem of software - more of sense. What do I do about my grandfather, whose mother Helen registered him at birth as Jones? She claimed that Jones was her married name (it wasn't!), so the birth cert says Jones, although he used a totally different surname all his life, and that's how living family members knew him...
And Helen's own mother went one better: her maiden name really was Jones, she registered all her 5 children as the product of a fictitious marriage to a man named Dowding, and simultaneously called herself Mrs James, a widow on census returns!
??? ??? ???
Rambler
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Hi Rambler,
Well, I think that what I do copes with all of that in a formal manner as far as entries in my genealogical program are concerned ...
But as far as the genetic (DNA??) make-up of your family is concerned, I give up ...
I'm sort of glad that my lot were (as far as I know!!) so very boring and unenterprising! Though not nearly such a fascinating challenge!
JAP
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JAP, Rambler,
Thanks both. Just beginning to appreciate the potential complexity of this issue ;)
For time being, with more of a twig than a tree to manage, I have no real problem anyway. But I just had an email about the subject from someone with 80,000 names in his database! Frightening to think what a mess that could get into without some consistent system.
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Terry, West Sussex, UK
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I discovered far too late that it is important to record the variations and where they occur. Having made the decision to record all names under one variant I later discovered that various branches were fairly consistent about the variant that they used. With all the eldest sons including cousins of about the same age called Henry this became a vital help in sorting them out.
David
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Hi Terrypin
I use FTM10 and because I am going backwards :D genealogically speaking of course then whatever the spelling is for the parents is not reflected in the children unless you add new children after the father, when FTM assumes the fathers surname is the correct one. I have a few variant spellings so this is how I have got round it.
Hope this helps
John Rowley