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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: Deb on Monday 06 September 04 20:49 BST (UK)
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Does anyone have a Skelcy/Skelcher in their family tree?
Sarah Skelcy married John Dumbleton in 1840. Her father's name was William- a labourer. I'm trying to find out when she was born, mother's name, siblings etc.
Any information would be brill!!
Thanks
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hi
do you have the 1851 census for John and Sarah Dumbleton? Or do you have the marriage cert for them to say where they were living?Let me know and I will look them up on 1851.
Nicky
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Hi Nicky
Thanks for the lookup offer but I'm not sure where they were living in 1851 as they were married in Birmingham. Any help would be appreciated.
Debbie
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Found this in 1851 census Debbie could it b them?
HO107/2076 Folio 445 Page 15 FHL Film 0087345
Shipton on Stour
Brailes Shipton on Stour Warwickshire
John Dumbleton Head 42 b Brailes Warwickshire Ag Labourer
Sarah Dumbleton Wife 32 b Leamington Warwickshire
Joseph Dumbleton Son 9 b Brailes Warwickshire Farmers Plow Boy
Maryann Dumbleton Dau 6 b Brailes Warwickshire Scholar
William Dumbleton son 3 b Brailes Warwickshire
The only Skelcy in the 51 census is Thomas a 66 year old Widower born and living in Cubbington Warwickshire he is a Ag Farm Labourer
Looks like this one probably connects with the above one
Sarah Skelcey is a 25 year old house servant b in Cubbington living with Samuel and Charlotte Heath a Farmer of 260 acres Frankton Rugby Warwickshire
tried anything I can think of for name and couldnt find any more. There r other Dumbletons in Brailes if u think it is the right family. There is a William could b a brother. There is an Elizabeth 63 Pauper b and living in Brailes who is a Widow 36 year old son Michel with her. If u want any details on any of these just let me know.
Kris
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Kris
Many thanks for the census lookup. These names will give me something to work on for a while!!
Thanks again
Debbie
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hi my name is carol, i have Sarah SKELCHER/SKELCY in my family history if you are still interested.
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Hi Carol,
Yes I am interested. I would appreciate any info on Sarah. From the census it looks like she was born in Leamington c1819.
Thanks
Deb
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Sarah was christened 20 sep 1818 Cubbington parish church parents names William skelcher and Mary Dalton. Do you want anymore information? Carol02.
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Hi Carol
Yes please any info will be a great help. Do you think we are looking at the same Sarah?
thanks
Deb
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Hi Debs Yes i think we are looking at the same Sarah .William and Mary were married 30 April 1818 Leamington Hastings. They must have moved to Cubbington.Do you want anymore information on their other children? Carol.
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Hi Debs Its Carol again, just checked the 1881 census an she is definitely born in Cubbington. bye for now.
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Hi Carol
Thanks for the info and yes please any info on their children would be welcome.
Thanks
Deb
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Hi Debs
Other children are:-
John 13 Aug 1820 my g.g.grandfather
Ann 5 Feb 1826
William 20 Apr 1828
Richard 20 Jun 1830
Edward 27 July 1834
All were christened in Cubbington. William their father died in 1834 Mary married Edward Walker on 14 Aug 1834 in Cubbington. He was a farmer from Berkeswell. They all moved there and they had a daughter Eliza born in Berkeswell. 1837. If you want anymore information let me know. I am still trying to trace some of the lines.
Carol
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Hi Carol
Thanks for the above info, this will help me to add a few more 'branches' to my tree!
If I come across any more Skelcher info I'll let you know.
Deb
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Hi Deb
Glad I was able to help. The surname changes to SKELCY. It is spelt SKELSEY on the1881 census. Yes it would be good if you came across any to let me know.
Carol
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Hi Carol
I'm glad you've confirmed the surname change because I wasn't 100% certain that Skelcy & Skelcher were the same. I wonder if we'll come across any more variations!!!
Deb
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Hi Deb
How did you know the name changed from Skelcher to Skelcy? The 1851 census has them down as Skeley. I hope there are'nt anymore variations as it is so confusing. Some are missing on the 1881 census. I have tried every spelling and can't find them anywhere. They turn up on the1901 census in Rugby as Skelcy.
Carol
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Hi Carol
I only found out by chance. I put a message on a message board ages ago looking for Skelcy and someone suggested I try Skelcher as an alternative which was lucky as I don't think I'd have thought of this variation. How on earth did they get from Skelcy to Skelcher?
Deb
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Hi Deb
Perhaps someone couldn't spell Skelcher. they got as far as skelc and decided to add 'y' on the end. I can't think of any other reason. Can you?
Carol
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Hi Deb
Just found some of my Skelcys on the 1881 census under KELCY, I have been searching for ages and couldn't find them. There are more variations than i thought.
Carol
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Hi Carol
Thanks for letting me know. I wouldn't have thought of this one!
Deb
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Hi Deb
Did you know that the Skelcher surname dates back to 1724 in Cubbington?
Carol
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Hi Carol,
No I didn't. It would be nice to find out where the name originated from.
Deb
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Hi Deb
I have put the surname under One Name Studies to see if anyone can help us find out where it originated from.
Carol
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Hi Carol
Good idea. Let's hope someone knows!
Deb
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Hi Deb
It could come from the spelling of Schleicher but not really sure. There are Skelchers living in Oxfordshire. I could send an E-mail to see if anyone knows. Carol
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Hi Carol
Sounds a bit German don't you think?
Deb
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Hi Deb
It is a german name Kurt Von Schleicher 1882-1934 was a german general in the first world war. There is a county in Texas called Schleicher. Its hard to say whether Skelcher comes from Schleicher. Carol
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Hi Carol
We'll have to keep looking to see if we can come up with the origin.
deb
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Hi Deb just found Edwards marriage under surname kelsey, in Berkeswell. He gives his father's name as Edward Walker. Carol
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Hi Carol
Thanks for the info
Deb
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My name is mark skelcher,my father is mark skelcher and his father is phillip skelcher, does this help any?
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Hi Mark How far back have you traced your Skelcher line? Do you know where it originated from? Carol
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actually i havn't at all, i don't know much about the far past,i just got on this site,how would i go about finding out about my skelcher tree?
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Hi Mark You need to gather as much information as you can from living relatives on births, deaths and marriages before you go further back. I hope that helps. Carol02.
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Hi Debs
Other children are:-
John 13 Aug 1820 my g.g.grandfather
Ann 5 Feb 1826
William 20 Apr 1828
Richard 20 Jun 1830
Edward 27 July 1834
All were christened in Cubbington. William their father died in 1834 Mary married Edward Walker on 14 Aug 1834 in Cubbington. He was a farmer from Berkeswell. They all moved there and they had a daughter Eliza born in Berkeswell. 1837. If you want anymore information let me know. I am still trying to trace some of the lines.
Carol
William Dumbleton is in my tree, my Gx3 Grandfather, John Dumbleton was his brother, it may interest you to know that, thier father Joseph Dumbleton was married to Elizabeth walker, I wonder if Elizabeth & Edward were related ???
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Hi Morad Deb is tracing Dumbleton. I don.t know if Edward Walker and Elizabeth are related, Mary was his second wife. Carol
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I'm new here. I'm researching our family tree and was puzzled by the Skelcher/Skelcey change too. There were plenty of Skelchers in Cubbington in the C18th but they seemed to have died out by the 1881 Census. OTOH the Skelseys (various spellings) proliferated. I found a lot of them at the Mormon site http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp. This is where I found William (Skelcher) Skelcey whose parents were Skelcher but whose children seemed to be all Skelcey.
My g-g-grandfather was a George Skelcey born in 1828, who married Ann Draper. I can't find any record of his birth, so I thought he might be a son of William. However, this seems unlikely if William had another son born in 1828 - there were other Skelceys George could have been a son of.
The only Skelceys (and Skelcys) listed in the 1901 Census were living within a few miles of Cubbington. Most of them were living at Regent Street - my g-grandparents James and Sarah and seven of their eleven children. Two of the others turn out to be their daughters (in service in Coventry and Leamington) leaving only the eldest daughters - one married, one dead by then. The rest seem not to be related, not even Elizabeth "on parish pay". James and Sarah have a great many descendants, though not all called Skelcey of course. I didn't investigate Skelseys then as there were many of them and I was told they were unrelated.
In the 1881 census all the SkelCeys on the Mormon site are unrelated to me - but in fact George and Ann SkelSey are living in Church Terrace with their youngest surviving children. James and Sarah SkelSey live nearby with their eldest children, while another adult son Thomas lodges on the same terrace. There is a tradition that my grandfather - eldest son George - was born on this terrace, before his parents moved to Regent Street.
The spelling seems very variable, however. James seems to have followed his father in using the S spelling in 1881, but Sarah seems to have registered all her children as SkelCY (I have the birth records of 8 of them). Of course literacy standards were lower then. By 1901 the whole James branch of the family seems to have settled on SkelcEY, and that has stuck.
What I found puzzling is that in 1881, 1891 and 1901 SkelSeys were found in a variety of counties (Middlesex, Yorkshire, Durham, Wiltshire etc) whilst the Skelcey and Skelcy variants were confined to central Warwickshire. You'd think that the spelling confusion could arise anywhere. Could it be that the other Skelseys pronounce their name Skelzey (compare Wolsey, Halsey, Ramsey etc) and the pronunciation changed in Cubbington and district because of the Skelsey/Skelcher merger? Any Skelseys around with the "z" sound?
I'd be interested to hear from anyone who thinks they may be descended from George and Ann's other children - the boys were called William, John, Thomas, George, Henry/Harry and Frederick, though Frederick seems to have been dead by 1881 - at least, not living in his parents' house - and only Thomas of the others has so far been found as an adult. There were two daughters but, again, the younger was not at home in 1881. If you are descended from the George who married Harriet Harrop and had a lot of children, he seems to have had a different father, so not closely related. But any info on Cubbington Skelceys would be welcome.
Thanks in advance,
Chris
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Hi i have been tracing the Skelcy/ Skelcher for ages, I think your George Skelcy was christened at Ryton=on=Dunsmore 12 Sep 1825 to Thomas and Ann but the surname is Kelcy, There were two George Skelcey's living in Cubbington, My George Skelcey married Harriet Harrod, Your George Skelcey married Jane Whittle. Carol
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Hi Frederick only lived two weeks, he was buried 10 feb 1873. Cubbington. Carol
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Thanks Carol.
Have you any proof of these? I have George Skelcey senior as born in Cubbington in 1828 according to his marriage certificate and the 1881 census. Might the Ryton one be another George? I know it's not uncommon to get birth years wrong, but 3 years out and a different village seems unlikely. There is a tradition that my Skelceys had lived in Cubbington for generations. (My grandfather is sometimes given as born in 1874, the year he was christened, but he was actually born 29th Dec 1873, and given that his parents only married in the Sept the obfuscation is understandable. To complicate matters, there is another George Henry born in Cubbington in 1873, married there in the 90s and died there in 1949. My grandad was married in North Wales in the 1900s and died there in 1957).
Likewise with George marrying Jane Whittle. I'd like to believe it, but there are other Georges (born 1842 1858 and 1859 in Cubbington) who are also candidates. I only have the one child of theirs - young George died 1911 aged 23, apparently unmarried and childless. I have records of a Thomas (married Eliz. Haycock) and a Henry/Harry (married Mary Margaret Holmes) who both also had children in Cubbington at the time, but I don't know if they are the brothers of George and James.
I'm not surprised about Frederick, as he wasn't listed in the George/Ann household for 1881, and the same thing seems to have happened to Eliza Harriet. I have found another daughter, though - Emma, born 1857. She could well have been married by 1881. This makes George and Ann nearly as prolific as their son James - 10 known children.
Did you ever get to meet George and Harriet's last surviving child, Edith Harriet, died 1980 aged 95 or 96? My great aunt Mabel lived to a similar age, until the mid 1980s.
Thanks for all this. Any more info on Cubbington Skelceys gratefully received.
Chris
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Hi Chris the 1851 census George Skeley 24 farmers boy born Righton, William Skeley 10 born Cubbington, living with their sister Eliza and John Green in Cubbington. I got confused with the George.s (1859) died an infant (1858) parents John and Elizabeth my gt gt gtandparents (1842) not on 1851 census so may have died. Thomas and Henry are brothers of George and James. I haven.t found anything about Emma (1857) Carol
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Hi Chris the 1891 census is on line if you want to check both Georges. Edith Harriet is at the home of her grandmother Eliza Draper, Jane's mother. Carol
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Thanks Carol. I had an Edith Skelcey living with her grandmother (presumably remarried, as Henry seems to young to be her grandad) Eliza Draper in Cubbington High Street in 1901. This is almost certainly Edith Harriet who is the right age - but she is a daughter of George and Harriet Harrod according to christening records, so is your relative not mine! I thought that since she died in Cubbington so recently you might find people that knew her. I don't know what relation Henry Draper is to Ann Draper, if any.
My relative is Eliza Harriet Skelcey but like her brother Fred she seems not to have been around by 1881, when she would have been 9 or 10. I know my James and George had brothers Thomas and Henry/Harry (and William and John) but I don't know how I can prove they were the same ones who married and had children later on, unless I find the actual marriage certificates. In any case, unless some of their descendants come forward I'm never going to get a complete tree of George and Ann, though hopes are high for that of their son James and Sarah.
I know 1891 is on line through Ancestry but I swore I'd never deal with them again after they ripped me off (it's a long story). In any case I've got almost everything I need for that year, save the whereabouts of elusive Ellen Skelcey (1878-1896). I've even found her elder sister Hannah Elizabeth in service in Leamington that year on another site.
What I'd be really interested in is finding sources for say the 1851 Census, the year that George and Ann got married, or earlier years, or more birth and marriage certs. I'm still not convinced that he is George of Ryton - the age is wrong. George and Ann were married in September 1851 - was that after the census was taken? Their eldest William was christened in January 1852 so it seems a case of - like father, like son!
Chris
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Carol, I should have mentioned that Edith Harriet Skelcey married yet another Draper - Francis Edward - in 1907, and presumably that was the name she was using when she died in Cubbington in 1980.
Chris
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Carol, did you get my reply to your message just now (1955pm 13/2). It timed out and I'm not sure if the re-try worked. Chris.
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Hi Chris Yes I did get your message. Did you know George had a brother William Enoch who married Ann Draper.s sister Hannah? Carol
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Thanks Carol. I knew about William Enoch - he turns up as the father of several Skelceys. How sure can you be that he's my George's brother? I'm not surprised at yet another Draper turning up in Cubbington though. Chris
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Hi
I have a Skelcey in my family tree and I have just started to try and find out about them. My Grandmother was Mabel Malin (Nee Skelcey) her father was James Skelsey from Cubbington. i have found quite a few Skelcey's on this website http://www.hunimex.com/warwick/freecens/index.html . If you look on numbers 2467 thru to 2475 you will find them. The main one is 2475 which cover Cubbington in 1891 has quite a few Skelcey's listed. Hope this is of help. obviously if anyone can help me with information on the Skelcey's in Cubbington / Leamington i would be grateful. below is what i copied off the above website, it shows my Grandmothers family, when Mabel (grandmother)was only 7 months old.
33,Regent St,1,James Skelcey,Head,M,32,,Labourer In Timber Yard,Employed,Cubbington Warwickshire,,
,,,Sarah A. Skelcey,Wife,M,,36,,,Cubbington Warwickshire,,
,,,George H. Skelcey,Son,S,17,,Agricultural Labourer,Employed,Cubbington Warwickshire,,
,,,Ellen Skelcey,Dau,,,13,Scholar,,Cubbington Warwickshire,,
,,,William Skelcey,Son,,11,,Scholar,,Cubbington Warwickshire,,
,,,Emma Skelcey,Dau,,,9,Scholar,,Cubbington Warwickshire,,
,,,Annie Skelcey,Dau,,,7,Scholar,,Cubbington Warwickshire,,
,,,James Skelcey,Son,,5,,Scholar,,Cubbington Warwickshire,,
,,,Frank Skelcey,Son,,3,,,,Cubbington Warwickshire,,
,,,Mabel Skelcey,Dau,,,7m,,,Cubbington Warwickshire,,
Phil
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I'm sorry to have to disappoint you, Phil, but it's unlikely that this Mabel is your grandmother. This Mabel Skelcey never married, unless there is a very odd skeleton in the cupboard we don't know about. George H Skelcey was my grandfather, and I met Great-Aunt Mabel a few times. Like all but one of her sisters, she went into domestic service - but unlike the others, she seemed to make a career out of it.
She lived until her mid-nineties, dying in the mid 80's. A niece, who is still around, looked after her in her final years, and I'll contact her to find out if there's anything strange we've not so far been told about,
Chris
PS I'm collecting data on all the descendants of James and Sarah if anyone's interested, or can contribute anything.
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Phil, I've just had a thought on your grandmother Mabel. There was another James Skelsey born in Cubbington about the same time as my great-grandfather (1848 as opposed to 1853) but he disappears off the radar in later censuses - probably left the area. Might he be your great-grandfather?
Chris
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Phil, I just spoke to a cousin of the previous generation who knew my Great-Aunt Mabel since she was quite a young woman. She's adamant that she (Mabel) never married or had children. In those days, if you had a career in service, you weren't allowed to marry.
I gather there is another Mabel Skelcey with a father born in Cubbington who may be your grandmother. Chris
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Chris,
The information I have is very sketchy, the only thing I have to go on is that my Grandmothers maiden name was Mabel Skelcey and that she married a William H Malin. No dates or much else apart that they came from Cubbington and that one of Mabels sisters (no first name) married a man with the surname Bolt. Also that Mabels brother Thomas Skelsey may have married a Lizzie Malin. I have found another Mabel Skelsey but again have no real evidence that it is the right one. From what I have discovered is that memories and information from family, is not always correct. the Mabel I am looking at now, is below. Mabel Skelcey was my grandmother and lived in 9 The Holt, Lillington until she died.
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One of the posts I did find, was amusing, have a look.
http://freespace.virgin.net/steve.johnson90/PAGES/CEB%20March.htm
Any help with above and any info anyone can give me on the skelcey's and how the families are joined, will be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Phil Malin
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Hi Phil, it does look as if this might be your grandmother. (My great-aunt Mabel lived in Leamington in later years.) This family were living in Cubbington very near to mine in 1891 and it was easy to confuse this George (born 1858 I think) with my great-grandfather's brother George born 1863 who was also living nearby with his family. None of my great-aunts married a Bolt and you have at least one other great-aunt besides Harriet - Mary who at 15 may well have been in service by 1901.
Carol02 has traced the Skelcey line in Cubbington back to the 1740s. The actual relationships are difficult to prove exactly, but the circumstantial evidence is strong, and it seems certain that we are related, though not as closely as you might have thought!
I was amused by the ear-biting incident, though I don't suppose it was funny at the time! I don't know who this William Samuel Skelsey might have been, can't see any candidates - unlikely to have been my great-uncle Will who would have been 40 at the time and had no middle name as far as I know. (Besides, if he was lacking an ear I think I'd have heard about it.)
Chris
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Ok in line with with Policy, I have rewritten the info found on websites/census databases. So if anyone can see a connection to their family tree or has information, could you Post it please.
My other question is how do you find in formation on families after 1901, are there any other census's / records we can online search. As I live in Essex, going to Leamington to search records, would not be practical. As you can guess I am new to reseaching family information.
George Skelsey 1861 Cubbington Husband (1891 and 1901 Census)
Harriett Skelsey 1862 Folesill Wife (1891 and 1901 Census)
John H. Skelcey 1882 Cubbington Son (1891 census)
William T. Skelcey 1884 Cubbington Son (1891 census)
Thomas Skelsey 1884 Cubbington Son (1901 census)
George Skelcey 1885 Cubbington Son (1891 census)
Mary E. Skelcey 1886 Cubbington Daughter (1891 census)
Samuel Skelsey 1888 Cubbington Son (1891 and 1901 Census)
Harriett C Skelsey 1890 Cubbington Daughter (1891 and 1901 Census)
Richard Skelsey 1892 Cubbington Son (1891 and 1901 Census)
Charles Skelsey 1895 Cubbington Son (1901 census)
Mabel Skelsey 1899 Leamington Daughter (1901 census)
Phil Malin
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Hi Phil I have those Skelceys in my family tree. What information do you want? Carol
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Hi Carol,
As much as you can really, I have just started to trace my family tree.
I believe that Mabel Skelsey married my Grandfather William H Malin, she later remarried after his death. Also that Thomas Skelsey may have married a Lizzie Malin of the same family. One direct question is that in the 1891 census I found William T Skelcey and later in the 1901 census I could only find Thomas Skelsey. They both had the same birth year of 1884 ish, are they the same person, with the William T - standing for Thomas. I am basically looking for confirmation that I have the right Mabel and Thomas.
Trying I suppose to go as far back along the line as I can.
Thanks
Phil
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Hi Phil Yes he was christened William Thomas 24 june 1883 Cubbington, looks like he dropped the William, Mabel Ann was christened 8 feb 1899 st, pauls leamington, Carol
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Carol, thankyou
Do you know if I have the correct skelsey's. Did mabel marry william h malin and Thomas marry Lizzie. Do you have that info.
I am just trying be sure i am looking at the right skelsey family.
How far back have you gone and i am guessing we both have a connection somehow with this family. Mine is mabel (I think) what is yours?
phil
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Hi Phil I haven.t got that imformation about the Malins. I am still researching the family. George had a sister Ellen, she was my gt, grandmother. Did you see my request under warwickshire requests? Did you know they had a daughter lucy Ann christened 29 Jan 1893 and only lived 21 days. They had another daughter Daisy Mary christened 26 July 1896 and buried 4 sep 1896. Walter henry was christened 28 aug 1901 St Pauls. Leamington. I have traced his line. Carol
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Carol,
Ah Walter, I was told about Walter but could find no information on him probably because he was born after the 1901 census was taken. The only thing my Dad told me was that Mabels brother Walter, worked on the railways. That is all the info I had on Walter.
So George and Harriett had 3 other children, wow, that is quite a few.
I am guessing Walter was the last. i take it you did mean that they were Georges children.
I havent looked around all the messages yet it is still hard to take in all the info i have already.
So i suppose we will both be looking for info, on George and Ellens family.
Any pointers you could give where to look.
Phil
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Hi Phil Do you have a marriage certificate for Mabel, it would help if i knew where she got married, it would give an address and witnesses. Carol
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carol, i dont know, i will have to ask my dad, unfortunatley he is technophobe and not very good with paper work. I will ask him but it will take time. as soon as he comes up with something i will contact you.
a question how far back do census's go ?
phil
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1841 census is now on line for Warwickshire. carol
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One of the posts I did find, was amusing, have a look.
http://freespace.virgin.net/steve.johnson90/PAGES/CEB%20March.htm
Any help with above and any info anyone can give me on the skelcey's and how the families are joined, will be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Phil Malin
Hi Phil, I've just found out that the William Samuel Skelcey who was the victim in the famous Cubbington Ear Biting incident really *was* my Great Uncle Will, who had a part of his ear missing. He was indeed 40 at the time but had been a spectator rather than a player at the match. Now immortalised in music for all time.......
Chris
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Hello, apparently a reply has been posted to this topic by BushInn but I can't see any sign of it. What's happening?
Chris
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In case it's of any use to anyone, I also have some Warwickshire Skelseys in my tree (related by marriage, not blood).
My distant cousin Ellen Clarke (born Weybread, Suffolk) married a William Skelsey in Warwick Q2. William was born in Lillington, Warwicks abt 1840. The 1851 census shows him aged 10 living with his family in Leamington.
William's father is shown in 1851 as being Joseph Skelsey (mistranscribed as Skilsey), 53, Gardener, b Cubbington.
William and Ellen Skelsey had 5 children in Lillington/Leamington/Milverton by 1901 (Henry Christopher, Laura Letitia, Mabel Lilian, Ellen Annie and Francis James) but I know nothing about what became of them after 1901.
Anna
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In case it's of any use to anyone, I also have some Warwickshire Skelseys in my tree (related by marriage, not blood).
My distant cousin Ellen Clarke (born Weybread, Suffolk) married a William Skelsey in Warwick Q2. William was born in Lillington, Warwicks abt 1840. The 1851 census shows him aged 10 living with his family in Leamington.
William's father is shown in 1851 as being Joseph Skelsey (mistranscribed as Skilsey), 53, Gardener, b Cubbington.
William and Ellen Skelsey had 5 children in Lillington/Leamington/Milverton by 1901 (Henry Christopher, Laura Letitia, Mabel Lilian, Ellen Annie and Francis James) but I know nothing about what became of them after 1901.
Anna
Thanks Anna,
We (Carol02 and I) knew about William and Ellen (Ellen, much younger, was his 2nd wife) and have traced what happened to some of his siblings. If you are interested in more details we have some.
Unfortunately Joseph is the only Cubbington Skelcey we have been unable to place in birth records. All others from there seem to be descended from Joseph Skelcher and Mary Flour - all their grandchildren seemed to change their name to Skelcey which may have been the original name. The only guess we have is that Joseph might be Johm? Skelcher born 1798. This is a bit of a long shot as Johm is given as female - but whoever heard of such a name? We know it's not meant to be John because there was already a surviving elder brother John in this family. It's possible that it's another mistranscription - we're always finding Skelcey as S Kelsey, and Avis read as A(squiggle) and transcribed as Ann - someone making a best guess, and children given the wrong gender. It's possible this was an unreadable Jo(squiggle) that someone has had a go at interpreting.
All best, Chris
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Johm? How odd. I suppose Jo-squiggle could be Johanna (if really female) or Joseph/Josh.
Do you have any info as to what happened to William and Ellen's children? They're rather distant rellies of mine (3rd cousins 3 times removed) but it's always nice to know about the kin!
Anna
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Johm? How odd. I suppose Jo-squiggle could be Johanna (if really female) or Joseph/Josh.
Do you have any info as to what happened to William and Ellen's children? They're rather distant rellies of mine (3rd cousins 3 times removed) but it's always nice to know about the kin!
Anna
Yes, we thought it might be Johanna, we really don't know. I never thought of Josh - not so different from Johm.
The info I have is mainly on Wm's siblings, so no relation of yours. As to the children, Carol has :
"William and Ellen had Laura Letitia 1899. Mabel Lilian 1892, Frederick William 1897, Francis James, 1899, born Leamington cont Henry Christopher 1889 born Lillington, Ellen Elizabeth 1894, Arthur Ernest 1903 and Edith May 1904 born Leamington. William's first marriage was in 1866 to Clara Jane Docker in Wolverhampton, She died in 1872 age 32, they had a daughter marion edith born 1867 was christened at st paul's leamington 29 jul 1877 age 10, she died in 1890." This all seems to tie up with your info from the 1901.
After that we are stuck until 1911 comes out except for FreeBMD, and I think these children are a little young to come up on there before 1911-14, when their data peters out, at least for now. I've just looked up Carol's researches into Skelcey marriages both there and at Warwick records office (unlike me she still lives nearby) but there are no matches to Wm and Ellen's children. It's possibe they left the area,
All best, Chris
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Many thanks, Chris. That gives me two new cousins I didn't know about!
Best wishes :)
Anna
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Many thanks, Chris. That gives me two new cousins I didn't know about!
Best wishes :)
Anna
Hi Anna, Carol has found a couple of the children marrying:
"The only marriage I have is Laura Letitia marrying William Fergus Middleton 18 sep 1920,All Saints parish church. Henry Christopher married Rose Price 1913 they had a daughter christened 6 sep 1914"
All Saints Leamington I assume. I'd better not name the daughter as she might just be alive & still using that name!
All best, Chris
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That's terrific - many thanks to you and also to Carol.
Were the daughter's (given) initials E.M., F.E. or R.M. by any chance?
Anna
Modified: scratch that about the initials - I'm barking up the wrong tree!
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What I found puzzling is that in 1881, 1891 and 1901 SkelSeys were found in a variety of counties (Middlesex, Yorkshire, Durham, Wiltshire etc) whilst the Skelcey and Skelcy variants were confined to central Warwickshire. You'd think that the spelling confusion could arise anywhere. Could it be that the other Skelseys pronounce their name Skelzey (compare Wolsey, Halsey, Ramsey etc) and the pronunciation changed in Cubbington and district because of the Skelsey/Skelcher merger? Any Skelseys around with the "z" sound?
I don't know whether it's the done thing to reply to your own post, but I realise now why the non-Warwickshire ones are consistently Skelsey while the Warwickshire ones are so variable. It's all a matter of literacy. Those who stayed behind tended to be semi-literate farm workers who, though they could probably sign their names, left the writing and spelling to the enumerator, which is why so many of them have different spellings on different censuses.
Those who left the area, however, took up professional occupations and were capable of insisting on the particular spelling they thought was right - this includes all the ones in Northern England and some of the London ones - the unrelated London ones including the Wiltshire ones might pronounce it Skelzey for all I know.
Chris
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Have you come across please any "Kelsey" or "Skelsey" wills or documents with references to the places of Stockingford; Nuneaton Parish; Ansley (Anceley), Warwickshire, or the "Paget" name (1680 to 1780)?
Various Kelsey's (Wm; Benjamin and John) occupied lands of Sir Willoughby (Willughby) Aston in the Stockingford Survey of 1690.
Joseph Kelsey and Joshua Kelsey are also mentioned in Lord Paget's (also Lord of Nuneaton and Stockingford Manors) Arrears of 1735 and 1746 Survey respectively.
Thanks
Mark Hood
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What I found puzzling is that in 1881, 1891 and 1901 SkelSeys were found in a variety of counties (Middlesex, Yorkshire, Durham, Wiltshire etc) whilst the Skelcey and Skelcy variants were confined to central Warwickshire. You'd think that the spelling confusion could arise anywhere. Could it be that the other Skelseys pronounce their name Skelzey (compare Wolsey, Halsey, Ramsey etc) and the pronunciation changed in Cubbington and district because of the Skelsey/Skelcher merger? Any Skelseys around with the "z" sound?
I don't know whether it's the done thing to reply to your own post, but I realise now why the non-Warwickshire ones are consistently Skelsey while the Warwickshire ones are so variable. It's all a matter of literacy. Those who stayed behind tended to be semi-literate farm workers who, though they could probably sign their names, left the writing and spelling to the enumerator, which is why so many of them have different spellings on different censuses.
Those who left the area, however, took up professional occupations and were capable of insisting on the particular spelling they thought was right - this includes all the ones in Northern England and some of the London ones - the unrelated London ones including the Wiltshire ones might pronounce it Skelzey for all I know.
Chris
I have the same "Joshua Kelsey" spelt in another document (but same landowner) as "Joshua Skelsey", so I believe it was down to pronounciation, or in the case of landowner documents the surveyor's clerk or writer may have been out of County, in another area and used the other spelling they were familiar with.
I have photocopy Lord Paget (Henry Earl of Uxbridge) Rental documents which refers to Joshua Kelsey's cottages and inclosure at Stockingford. However 40 years later when in Tomkinson ownership they are called "Kelsalls Cottages and Inclosures" in the Tomkinson Rentals, with reference to the previous landowner the Earl of Uxbridge. The later Tomkinson Rental document was from Dorfold Hall in Cheshire and likely written in Cheshire where they were familiar with the place Kelsall and the surname Kelsall.
The Tomkinson Rental of Dorfold Hall should have been copying the name "Kelsey" from the 1765 Deed of Sale from Lord Paget to James Tomkinson of Dorfold.
So "Kelsey" seems to vary where you live as well, but I don't know how they got "Kelsall". I have corroborated the documents with others and they were referring to the same buildings.
Mark Hood
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I have the same "Joshua Kelsey" spelt in another document (but same landowner) as "Joshua Skelsey", so I believe it was down to pronounciation, or in the case of landowner documents the surveyor's clerk or writer may have been out of County, in another area and used the other spelling they were familiar with.
I have photocopy Lord Paget (Henry Earl of Uxbridge) Rental documents which refers to Joshua Kelsey's cottages and inclosure at Stockingford. However 40 years later when in Tomkinson ownership they are called "Kelsalls Cottages and Inclosures" in the Tomkinson Rentals, with reference to the previous landowner the Earl of Uxbridge. The later Tomkinson Rental document was from Dorfold Hall in Cheshire and likely written in Cheshire where they were familiar with the place Kelsall and the surname Kelsall.
The Tomkinson Rental of Dorfold Hall should have been copying the name "Kelsey" from the 1765 Deed of Sale from Lord Paget to James Tomkinson of Dorfold.
So "Kelsey" seems to vary where you live as well, but I don't know how they got "Kelsall". I have corroborated the documents with others and they were referring to the same buildings.
Mark Hood
Hello Mark, I'm afraid my answer is variously "no" and "don't know". I saw some North Warwickshire Skelseys first on records at the Mormon site familysearch, and that they seemed to die out around the same time as my mid-Warwickshire Skelceys appear, so I thought - they must have moved.
It didn't turn out like that. My Skelceys seem to have originally been Skelchers - an Oxfordshire/south Warwickshire surname, and seemed to change to Skelcey (hence the "C" spelling) possibly under the influence of those who went to Coventry and encountered Skelseys. See this thread passim.
I don't know what happened to the North Warwickshire Skelseys but what I can tell you is that, over and over again in the history of my branch of Skelcey, someone records them, especially in censuses, as Kelsey which is by far the commoner name. A case of enumerator knows best, I suppose, or a mishearing when the recorded one has a carry-over first name like Thomas. Sometimes the S gets detached as a middle initial. Usually, next time they pop up they are back to Skelsey, the exception being some whose father died when they were very young and whose mother remarried.
I can't prove it happened to the North Warwickshire lot, but I did come across at least one example which I didn't record - a Benjamin Skelsey who became Kelsey. Oddly enough, the name Skelcher seems to be replaced in Northants by Kelcher, so possiby a parallel development.
Occasional Skelceys seen in North Warks are sometimes mid-Warks Skelceys who've moved - the family that go up to Warton, and the family that spend time in Withybrook, for example.
As for Kelsall, as you say that's a place near Chester and that surname seems to have been much commoner in Cheshire and neighbouring counties. I expect that entry was just a mistake, as you surmise. We've found our lot as Skeley, Spelsey, Skebsey, Shilsey - but never that.
I'm willing to be proved wrong on any of the above, any contributions gratefully received.
Chris
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Thanks Chris
I expect some of the North Warwickshire Kelsey's moved away, died off and the females married.
The Joshua Kelsey of Stockingford who occupied the inclosure of land on "Nuneaton Common" at Stockingford (alias Stockingford Common) that I am interested in had quite a few children from 1694 onward.
Nuneaton Parish records indicate Joshua Kelsey marries Dorothy ????? (might read Widdow; Wisddom or even Meddow) 26 July 1693. Joshua and Dorothy Kelsey are first recorded as residing at Stockingford in 1699 when William a son is baptised. In 1702 they have a son Joshua baptised and are still at Stockingford.
Joshua Kelsey of Stockingford is recorded on an inclosure in the Rental of 1746 as having just under 3 acres inclosed. Joshua Kelsey (or son of Joshua Kelsey) is then shown again in 1765 in the landowners Deeds as holding 3 acres when the land changes ownership.
There are 3 other baptisms recorded apparently for Nuneaton (on IGI - not verified) as follows; George Kelsey March 1716; Sarah June 1721 & a Dorothy Kelsey July 1725 whose parents were Joshua and Sarah Kelsey.
Please does anyone have any information such as a will, regarding the Joseph Kelsey who was buried at Kenilworth in March 1740?
Or come across any Joshua Kelsey; Jeremiah Kelsey; John Kelsey; William Kelsey; Elizabeth Kelsey; Thomas Kelsey; or Joseph Kelsey from Nuneaton Stockingford suddenly popping up in another Warwickshire area 18th Century please, perhaps in a will with a reference to Stockingford?
19th Century
I note a "John Kelsey Cooke" mentioned as owning property on Plough Hill, Stockingford (now Plough Hill, Galley Common) on an unused 1890 Mortgage Indenture, apparently the property was West of the Plough Inn.
Regards Mark
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Has anyone managed to find a link between the Skelcher/Skelcy families in Cubbington and those in Oxford, especially North Newington, Broughton, Hornton, Cropedey?
I have John Skelcher (1810) marrying Mary Dumbleton (1810). They had George (1834) who married Mary Prichard and they had Walter Daniel Skelcher who was my ggrandad. I have managed to find John Skelcher (1810) parents William Skelcher(1871) and Mary Leadbetter and think that William's parents may be William Skelcher and Elizabeth Denty but this is only guess work. I would like to try and find out who William(1871) siblings were and obviously trace those Skelchers. Went to Oxford record office on Friday and although the girl behind the counter was helpful the actual records themselves were not so. Trying to work from the Bishops Trascrips and pick out which William belongs to which branch of the family when no father or address is listed has proved to be a big problem. I have looked at all the census records but by 1841 all the people I need to sort out have married and are not living with parents so again another dead end.
Has anyone managed to link all the Skelcher families and be able to point me in a more useful direction than bishop transcripts?????? Any help/advice gratefully received. Karen
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Hello Karen, sorry for not replying sooner but I was waiting to let someone else have a go.
I don't have any serious links between the Cubbington Skelchers and the North Oxon ones. In early days most other Warwickshire Skelchers are found in Mollington so are obviously part of the Banbury district kin, or are in the very far south of the county..
As you'll have read, most of the Cubbington Skelchers became Skelc(e)ys. No one has come up with a compelling reason why this should be so*, but either it's true or the Cubbington Skelchers died off or moved away and were replaced by Skelcys of unknown origin with coincidentally similar names and birthdates, who were born in Cubbington unrecorded.
One Skelcher who missed the name-change, probably because he moved away from Cubbington at the crucial time, was William Skelcher who settled in Hampton Lucy, having lived in Coventry. We don't know who his parents are but he was born in Cubbington about 1800, according to the 1851 on an entry that Ancestry has obviously transcribed as something else, because searching for it doesn't find it ( (HO 107 piece 2074 folio 831 page 1). Various descendants of his turn up all over the place - those that work as gamekeepers being particularly mobile.
The assumption is that the original Joseph Skelcher b about 1721 may have originated in North Oxon but who can say. One of his descendants Sarah, the daughter of William "Skelcher" Skelcey, did marry a John Dumbleton of Brailes about this time but I don't know if there's a connection.
Later Skelcher arrivals in mid-Warwickshire do tend to be born in the Banbury surrounds but some are unaccounted for. Have you noticed that in Northants the name Kelcher is commoner, which mirrors the tendency of Skelcey to become the (commoner) Kelsey, especially on the whim of the enumerator and particularly if the first name elides with its own S - cf Thomas or James.
The only suggestion I have other than Bishops transcripts prior to 1841 is parish records. They can be pretty unreadable too. There are some Skelchers on the IGI at familysearch.com
I know this doesn't answer many of your questions but I hope someone finds it of interest.
All best and Good Luck, Chris
*various theories on this: they couldn't spell so guessed, the enumerator hadn't heard of Skelcher but knew Skelcey, the name was originally German (Schelecher turns up a couple of times) and they changed it to avoid prejudice (though you'd think at the time anti-French sentiment would have been more likely) the brothers Thomas, John and possibly Joseph had spent time in North Warks where Skelcher is unknown but Skelcey occurs, so they acquired the names there and when they got back persuaded others to follow - which is why William "Skelcher" Skelcey dithers - christening his kids with both names, though they all end up as Skelcey (and some later become Kelsey but that's another story). One reason might have been because they found the name more euphonious than Skelcher, which does sound a bit awkward to me.
The North Warwickshire Skelceys seem to either go to Kelsey or disappear. It's just possible one or some of them end up in Cubbington, but I can't think what there was to draw them there, and one argument against is that this lot use a number of forenames - like Mark, Abraham and Benjamin - that are simply not found in Cubbington - there's a paucity of forenames with the boys nearly all called William John James George Thomas Henry or Joseph, with some Richard Edward or David and the odd Biblican oddity such as Imri (the forename of a local squire) or Enoch (named for a Mr Enock who married one of the sisters). The girls are mostly Mary Ann Hannah Sarah Emma Eliza(beth) Harriet Selina or (H)Ellen. Towards the end of the century they run out of names and get more inventive.
The first appearance of the form Skelcy in Cubbington is in 1807 when three births are registered, two to unwed mothers who match Skelcher sisters, and the third to a Thomas who doesn't. (None of these three children are ever reliably found again.) However there are Skelcher references after that including the marriage of Elizabeth Skelcher to John Enoch, and two payers of the Window Tax in 1817 - John and Thomas can only be the two old patriarchs at this stage, the others of those names are either too young or have left the village. However, by 1841 no-one is using the name in Cubbington.
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Hello Karen
If you are trying to check familiy relationships, wills held at the Diocesan Record Offices can be an excellent source. Although you must bear in mind that not everyone left a will or went to admin', but it is really rewarding to find a relevant Will which links the family and proves relationships! Also it can occasionly be possible to find out if they left property, which brings me onto property deeds.
If you are very, very lucky you might find property Deeds have been deposited in Record Offices although a lenghty search is required through sometimes boxes of uncatalogued deeds deposited by Solicitors (also check A2A online, but it is not a complete list of Record Offices holdings or a complete breakdown of collections in some cases) Some records are still to be listed.
The London Gazette is searchable online free of charge now back to 1753 which records people who were made Brancrupt, disputes of Wills which went to Court, Businesses dissolved and people in the Couty Gaol including the Parish or place in the Parish where they came from. People who receive military awards and promotions.
Pre 1841 Enclosure Award Maps quite often give names in their Schedules of the persons occupying land or land owners, unless parts of the land was inclosed previously, in which case only the principal landowner might be shown who sub-let the land and buildings to others, therefore some may not named in the Award Schedule which usually accompanies a map, but they might be mentioned in Landowners Rentals or Surveys.
Early principal landowners Rentals sometimes confirm (even where property is rented) how the land passes to the widow or Son or grandson. 18th Century Landowners and their earlier records could be in other County Record Offices where the family seat (or their main property) was, as some landowners owned Estates, land, cottages and houses in other Counties. Sometimes the old Estate records became the property of the family whom they sold the principal house to and they kept the collection, or have sent it to an Archives.
I was stuck several times with my Public House research prior to 1841 and severely stuck before 1805 but managed now to trace reliably back to 1746 when the Inn changed hands, so the earliest part was there before 1746, which I have now corroborated with a secondary set of records found over 100 miles away at a University, but you do need an inquiring mind.
Regarding mortgaged property belonging to a registered company, if you know the formal company name and the property was mortgaged it can be traced using Companies House Records. A set of fiche with Mortgage Registers and Charges who they purchased the property off with the vendors address along with brief property descriptions with Company Accounts and Directors cost just £9.00. These can be very interesting and useful if you are tracing buildings such as Public Houses which all belonged to one Brewery Company, £9.00 is good value as some sets of fiche go back over 100 years.
Despite the records that have been destroyed, its amazing what is still out there and even local history groups and the local County Record Office were unaware of Estate records for my home county, which are held elsewhere (in addition to those of the same family in my own County Records Office).
I had a shock to find out that fields at the end of my close were owned by an Isle of Man based company in the early 20th century.
So it is amazing what you can find before 1841, but checking Wills if they left one or it went to admin', at the Diocesan Record Office for your Diocesan area (which in my case is in several neighbouring Counties of Lichfield and Worcester is the other I believe) is a must. I have also used wills to find deaths which do not seem to appear in the actual Parish Burial Register.
Also try the Card Indexes of the nearest Local History Section at a Library. Also Libraries have a lot of printed material submitted by people who may have traced a member of your families occupation 100's of years ago! Some Libraries have acquired photocopies of local records which are held elsewhere.
Mark
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This is just a short message to get this thread near the top of the board so that new visitors to Rootschat can easily find it.
However, any new contributions on the Skelceys always welcome. Chris
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I am new to this site and was surprised to see so much family history for Skelcey. My grandfather was Walter Henry. It is my aim to try to trace back his family and it looks like I can get a good start here.
The information that I have to date (from family word of mouth) is that Walter had brothers called Richard & Charles and a sister Mabel. I had no idea that there were around 10 other siblings. My father used to refer to an "Aunt Tottie" but I can see no resemblence of this in the information listed. Could she have been a later sibling? Also I believe that one of Mabel's sisters married a man called "Bolt" who lived in Radford. All of this seems to line up with information listed here.
It seems that my Great Grandparents would be George and Harriet. Does anyone have any information on him or his ancestors?
I would be grateful for any confirmation or further information.
Thanks.
Koala32
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Walter Henry did indeed work on the railways. He married Ellen Ethel Elliott and they had two children - Norman and Vera.
Should anyone want more details I would be happy to fill them in.
Thanks,
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Hi Koala,
You are indeed related to us, to Carol, and even more closely to Phil who seems not to be in contact any more.
I found more Skelceys on GenesReunited, including Phil's nephew who remembered that one of his great-aunts married a Bolt and that his cousin Bolt died in WWII. Unfortunately we're not sure which of Walter's sisters married Bolt - cant find the marriage, it could be that she married before and lost her first husband in WWI.
I'm on holiday at the moment so I can't sparemore time, but I'll attend to it when I can. My tree with 1000+ Skelcey relatives is on GenesReunited, but I hope to put it somewhere public (here?) when I have the time - in the winter!
All best, Chris
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Hi carol, everyone,
I am around but am working abroad at the moment until the end of the year and access to email is limited. I do still login but it's only on returns to UK, like this weekend and will be intermittent until my return to UK.
If i can help anyone let me know but at moment things hectic. But soon will be back on looking at the family tree.
Phil
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Hello Koala,
Mabel was my Grandmother, the family as I understand was this.
Born
George Skelsey 1861 Cubbington
Harriett Skelsey 1862 Foleshill
John H. Skelcey 1882 Cubbington
William T. Skelcey 1884 Cubbington
George Skelcey 1885 Cubbington
Mary E. Skelcey 1886 Cubbington
Samuel Skelsey 1888 Cubbington
Harriett Caroline Skelsey 1890 Cubbington
Richard Skelsey 1892 Cubbington
Lucy Ann Skelsey 1893 Cubbington
Charles Skelsey 1895 Cubbington
Daisy Mary Skelsey 1895 Cubbington
Mabel Ann Skelcey 1899 Leamington
Walter Henry Skelsey 1901 Leamington.
Not sure if that is all of them but it is as far as I have got. Mabel Ann Skelcey married William H Malin. So thats my route back to the Skelceys. its a start, please let me know if I can help.
Phil Malin
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Welcome back Phil,
Carol has found that Harriet Eva Skelcey (not Caroline) married Ernest Edward Eden in March qtr 1908 and that they had seven children between 1911 and 1917 who probably aren't around any more. She then married Henry Bolt in Dec qtr 1919. The assumption is that Ernest Eden died, probably in WWI.
I was in touch with your cousin Clive who used to be on the site GenesReunited but has since left. He mentioned that he had a cousin Bolt who died in WWII. I don't know if he and Harriet had yet more children or if this was one of Eden's adopted by Bolt. I don't have many details because Clive was rightly particular about not including living people on his tree (such as your Dad - but his five elder sisters are included.)
As you can see we now know a bit more abour Walter's family.
Chris
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The story behind Harriet Skelcey marrying Ernest Eden in 1908 and then Henry Bolt in 1919 is more complicated than it seems.
FreeBMD gives twins Caroline E and John T Eden Sep 1911 Dorothy May Jun 1912, George Henry Jun 1913, William R Eden Sep 1914, Rose Emily Eden Mar 1916 and Mabel Violet Eden Sep 1917. So far, so predictable. We thought Ernest Eden may have died in the Great War.
However, Carol found these christenings at St Mary's, Leamington. Dorothy May born 19 Apr 1912, chris. 10 july 1912. she died in 1916 age 4. George Henry born 13 jun 1913 chris 5 oct 1913. Rose Emily born 28 feb 1916 chr 25 sep 1916 died sep qu 1916. Mabel Violet born 10 aug 1917 chr 7 oct 1917. all to Henry and Eva BOLT!! I wonder if using her middle name was another part of the disguise.
Carol didn't find the christenings of the twins John and Caroline Eden, but when looking up FreeBMD I found that in Sept quarter 1911 they are registered both as Eden and as Bolt! It's too much of a coincidence to be anyone else, and anyway John T Bolt was given the mother's maiden name Eden, whereas for Caroline E it was Skelcey!
In any case, if next daughter Dorothy May was born in April 1912, these two must be rather late registrations. It seems that they used Bolt at the baptisms for the sake of propriety, but for the registrar they were obliged to tell the truth. Almost a decade of living a lie!
No sign of Ernest Eden after that - no death nor in the war records, there are some but with wrong middle name and too young. I heard that a Bolt died in World War Two, but I don't know if it was one of these children renamed, or a child of their marriage.
Chris
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Hi,
I'm another Skelcey-Sarah Skelcey(1819) is my 3x G.Grandmother so I come down through that line.
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Welcome to Rootschat!
I presume you're descended from the Sarah who married John Dumbleton of Brailes. You're more closely related to Carol02 than to me. I've come across a few Dumbletons, both here and on GenesReunited.
Chris
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Hi Chris,
I think we're already in contact via genes-my Sarah is married to John Dumbleton,we then go 'Raven' to 'Moore' & then me,anyone else on this line I'd be glad to hear from,my 'Moores' are driving me to Oblivion!!!The info you have on here is fascinating-makes the rellies real-much appreciated.
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Ah yes, now I know who you are!
Chris
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Hi Chris,
Thought I'd try on here 'cause I'm getting nowhere fast & its going to take me ages to get the hang of this site-I'm v.techno challenged!
Oblivion!
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You can always ask somebody if you get stuck.
Deb (who started this thread) is a Dumbleton and I think she also started a separate thread on them somewhere. However, she's not posted for a fair while.
How is Garibaldi Beetlestone?
Chris
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Hi Chris,
Haven't managed to connect him to our Beetlestones-if you could have a wish list Garibaldi would be on mine.We got the Beetlestones back to Shropshire but the Shropshire ones still say we're not related!Chasing 'Moores',my Nan's side of the tree is huge but G.Dads is a bit of a twig.TTFN Oblivion
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This is a message to Koala who's posted on this thread.
As a result of this post, I hope you receive an email letting you know that someone has added to this subject.
You wrote to Carol02 by private message. Unfortunately since you've made fewer than 5 posts in total you're apparently not allowed to receive any more private messages. Both Carol and I have tried to write to you but the messages were prevented from being posted - I hope this doesn't seem rude.
It would be easy to post 3 short messages on (say) this thread to get round the problem.
Some of what Carol had to say was private but the rest was just information about late Skelcey relatives which could easily be posted here.
I hope this all makes sense. Chris
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Thanks Chris-I'm not Koala...I'm Carla!
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Hi Carol,just about to re-start research,had a lot of 'sorting out'-takes longer than you think.
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All the help very much appreciated,thank-you all!
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Hi everyone!
I just wanted to let you all know that I asked my great Aunt (her mother, my great nana was Gertrude Skelcy) about Gertrudes siblings and her cousins. And she said that she remembers ALL of her aunts and uncles. I guess that Charles and Emma Skelcy had 1 more child. Also it appears that they divorced, or one died, since there was 2 half siblings to Gertrude as well. She is going to write out all this information and send it via regular mail, since she is in Canada and I am in the states. Plus she is healing from knee surgery.
I cant wait until I can get the information and share it with those of you who are interested in some living Skelcys in Canada.
Warm regards
Jilly
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It's OK Carla, Koala is somebody different we're trying to reach. You've made 30+ posts so there should be no problem messaging you.
Take care, Chris
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Hi Jilly, thanks for the info.
For the benefit of those not in the know, Jilly is descended from Charles Skelcey, eldest son of David Skelcey of Cubbington (and Rugby) and a brother to the George Skelcey who married Harriet Harrod in Cubbington (the ancestors of all that line including Phil's), and of Helen or Ellen Skelcey who married George Stanley, Carol's Ancestors. So not close relatives of the other Canadian (later American) Skelseys who are (we think) more closely related to me.
Charles and Emma emigrated to Stratford, Ontario in 1911. Chris
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Thank you Chris. I guess I forgot to put up who in the world I am. ;D I have all of the information written/ typed down, but when I just read what you typed out in regards who I descend from.....it made my head spin!
Thanks Again!
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And for the benefit of Koala, who has on reflection slept in Oz through all this sudden activity on the thread, and will wake up to just one email pointing him here:
The message for you is #96!
Chris
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Who is Koala?
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Sorry. Koala is the Skelcey relative (also from George and Harriet of Cubbington) whom we can't reach because he can no longer receive private messages. I just hope he sees message #96!
Chris
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Hi this is Koala32,
Messages take a long time to reach Australia!!!
I hope that by sending this I have reassured you that I am alive and well and therefore reading the messages. Sorry I have been "unavailable" for a while but I am back now.
Regards,
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Carol 02,
Vera and Walter had 2 children if this is of any use to you.
Koala32
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Carol 02
I thought that Mary Elizabeth was the daughter of Harriet and George not Harriet and Henry Bolt. Which is correct?
Koala 32
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Welcome back Koala.
Yes, Mary Elizabeth who married Fred Worrall was the daughter of George and Harriet (nee Harrod) Skelcey. It was another of their daughters, also Harriet, who married Ernest Eden and Henry Bolt - my post of Oct 2nd gives as much of her background as I know. This Harriet seems to have later used her middle name Eva.
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Hi Clive,
Carol has found that Lucy and Daisy Skelcey died as babies the same years they were born, sadly. Harriet Eva is the interesting one - see further up this thread.
Are you the Clive who's a cousin of Phil (Malin)? Your tree seems to have disappeared from GenesReunited.
Chris
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Hi Chris,
Just picked up the message about the babies-that is so sad.How goes your Tree?
All the best,
Carla
PS.Who's Clive & am I related to him?
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Hi Carla,
It seems that you are descended from William "Skelcher" Skelcey b 1796 by his daughter Sarah. Clive, like Carol and Phil, is descended from his son John. I'm from a different branch.
Can you still see my tree at GenesReunited? If not, I'll send you a PM about somewhere else to see it.
Chris
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Hi Chris,
I can still get the tree up but my computer won't load your whole tree so the other address may be a good idea!
I think this computer needs a bigger memory!Thanks.
All the best,
Carla
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This is just a post to get this thread near the top of the Warwickshire board the better for new members and visitors to find it.
Chris
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This is just a post to get this thread near the top of the Warwickshire board the better for new members and visitors to find it.
Well, that worked!
Just found Skelcher's in my tree yesterday and just happened by here today and saw this - freaky.
Not a direct link by any means
Sarah Ann HALL (b.1845 in Harbury) was my 3xG Grandmother, her brother Henry married Harriet BATTEY in 1871. Harriet's father was William BATTEY (b.1807 in Cubbington) son of William BATTEY (b.c1775 in Cubbington) and Elizabeth SKELCHER (b.c1780 in Cubbington).
Elizabeth's parents were John SKELCHER (b.c1751 in Cubbington) and Mary TOWNSEND (b.c1756 in Cubbington). John's parents being Joseph SKELCHER (b.c1728 in Cubbington) and Mary FLOUR/FLOWER (b.c1729)
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Hi Kia,
I sometimes direct new people to this site and thread and "promote" it to make it easier to find. Don't know if any of them have actually read it.
Anyway, our "relations in common" are Henry and Harriet's sons William Hall (b 1872 Cubbington) and John (b 1875 Marton). I lose track of them - the name is very common.
I always add a note of caution that the Elizabeth Skelcher who wed William Battey in 1799 might not be this one, but her first cousin and near-contemporary of the same name. However, there is strong circumstantial evidence that she was the one who married William Enoch in 1818. Both cousins are on the 1841 in Cubbington, ages rounded down of course, but by 1851 only Mrs Battey remains.
There are dozens of Battey descendants on my tree at GenesReunited (and on a less complete one at MyHeritage) if you're interested. Perversely, one branch moves from Warks where the name is rare to Lancs where it is common - at least in the Batty variant, as which they often get transcribed.
Chris
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Addendum to previous post: William Hall was never found on any subsequent census, and may have died the year he was born. Henry, Harriet and John Hall were found all the way to the 1901, still in Marton, John still single, no other children. I had other priorities when the 1911 was briefly available.
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Hi
I am also tracing the Skelcey family tree. My mum is Joan Skelcey, daughter of Frank Skelcey, grandaughter of James Sklecey and Sarah Green. She still lives in Cubbington.
According to my mum (and a few bits found on the census) we have the following names and dates for the children of James and Sarah. Any corrections to my info would be most welcome:
George c1873 - 1975
Elizabeth c1878 - 1940
William c1880 - 1962
Emma c1882 - 1965
Annie c1884 - 1940
James c1886 - 1930
Frank c1888 - 1939
Mabel c1891 - 1980
Rosa c1893 - 1965
Lois c1896 - 1970
Many thanks
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Hi Kevin,
Pleased to meet you, you are my second cousin. I'm a grandson of eldest George Henry. You're right about all the brothers and sisters, the only one missing is Ellen b 1877 who died as a teenager. The birth years you have for the others are right or very nearly. Lizzie's first name was Hannah, Emma was Florence and Annie was Sarah, but they all preferred their middle names.
I'm in touch with my late mother's cousin, Rose's daughter - you'll know who I mean - whom I believe is also in touch with your mum. (And with my own first cousins, and second cousins such as grandchildren of James and Lois). Do you still keep up with your aunt on the Skelcey side, and your first cousins, including the son of your late uncle? I've not managed to make contact with them. Please excuse oblique references, but it's a convention not to name living people without their permission on Rootschat (or anywhere on the internet for that matter.)
Most non-London Skelceys and Skelseys seem to originate in Cubbington. I have a big family tree on GenesReunited - you have to be a member to see it -with a lot of Skelceys and a fair few Greens on it. Or I could provide you with more family details by private message.
Chris
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Hello Cousin, that's absoutely brilliant.
I do keep in touch with the aunts and cousins.
I am a member of Genes Reunited, although currently only a free member so I don't think I can currently access you tree. Looks like I'll be joining tonight.
Kevin
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Hi Chris
Just to let you know I am now a fully paid up member of Genes Reunited. Not sure yet how it all works, do you need to send me message on GenesReunited so that I can share my tree?
Cheers
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Will do
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Once again I'm "promoting" this thread for the benefit of a new member.
Chris
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Nudging for someone coming to have a look-there's lots of us about ! :)
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Abroad at the moment. Lots of Draper relatives from Cubbington in touch, but these are only related to William Enoch Skelcey and his brother George, my g-g-grandfather.
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Hi, random, i know, but Skelcher isn't a run of the mill name. So here goes if it helps.
I have a Hannah Skelcher who is my great great great great grandmother :D on my tree b. 1795 d. 1854
She married a Richard Newman, and as far as i know was from Northamptonshire, possibly Farthinghoe.
Hope it helps.
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I found an inquest in the Leamington Courier of Annie Skelcher, age 28, wife of William Skelcher, labourer of 35 Albion Row, Leamington.
She was going to bed at 9.15 p.m on Monday 28th May 1888. the paraffin lamp she was carrying exploded and her clothing caught fire. She was admitted to Warneford Hospital with severe burns to the body. She died on the Saturday from shock to the system. Verdict. Accidental death.
Carol
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Hi, I haven't read all this thread yet, but will do later, George Skelsey who married Ann Draper, daughter of Edward & Ann Draper, Edward & Ann Draper was my husbands 3 x grandparents. On my side of the family I have Whittles (from Leicester) so am really keen to see if the Whittle you mention further in the thread originates from Leicester, I have her at the moment coming from Foleshill on my tree. :)
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Hi Lois, and and welcome to this thread - make sure you've a lot of spare time to read it all! (Some bits are better skipped first time, especially the long posts exchanged between me and BushInn).
I too am descended from George Skelcey and Ann Draper - not an exclusive club, they had 8 surviving children, 40+ grandchildren and uncounted great-descendants - and so related to all those hundreds of Skelseys and Drapers of Cubbington.
Bear with me on this and apologies if you know it. Eliza Whittle gives her birthplace on censuses as Cubbington. In 1870 when widowed she married Henry Draper, and her daughter Jane born Foleshill was living with them in 1881. The IGI suggests Eliza was born a Harrod (though I've found no evidence of the marriage, just a baptism of Elkiza Harrod in Cubbington in 1839). This confuses matters because a Harriet Harrod married a George Skelcey, and Jane Whittle married his (fairly distant) cousin and near contemporary George Skelcey, son of George and Ann (so also a cousin of her stepfather's) in 1884. In 1891 and 1901 George and Jane's eldest daughter Edith Harriet Skelcey is living with Henry and Eliza. Edith then married another cousin, Francis Edward Draper - a grandson of Richard Draper - in 1907, and the widowed Henry is living with them in 1911. Cubbington is a bit like this.
The name I've seen spelled Whittell and even Whitehall but I pay no attention to that - Skelsey can be any old spelling. I've not investigated them because they're not my direct relatives - there are enough of those to be going on with. I'm in touch with loads of Skelcey and Draper relatives, many still in and around Cubbington. I'm descended from George's second son James - which one is your husband from?
Chris
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Hi Chris,
Edward Draper b 1794 Rowington m Ann Taylor at Hampton in Arden, their son Richard Draper m Jane ? 1867, their son Richard Edward draper m Emily ? 1921, their son Harold Richard Draper m Annie May Rowley, hubby is the grandson of Harold & Annie May Draper.
Edward Draper b 1794, daughter Ann Draper m George Skelsey 1851 Cubbington, so if your descended from them it makes you and my hubby very distant cousins.
Mysterys seem to run in the Draper household, from reading the thread it also looks like mysteries ran in the Skelsey households too :) :)
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Hi Lois,
Sorry for not getting back sooner. All the evidence we have, including from relatives who've seen the marriage records, is that the Ann Draper who married George Skelcey in 1850 was one of the daughters of Thomas and Julia Draper of Cubbington - her sister Hannah married his brother William Enoch, and the John Draper and Richard Draper whose descendants marry in are her brothers. This Ann was the right age give or take a year on all censuses, too, and always gives her birthplace as Cubbington (1861 through to 1911).
The Rowington born Ann Draper was older (born 1832?) and seems to have been still unmarried in 1861, living with her siblings including a Hannah, true, but that one also unmarried in 1861. Ann Skelcey lived until 1914 and her age was given as 84 when she died. The Rowington Ann couldn't be found in 1871 - she just might be the one who died in 1869 aged 46 in Warwick district. Chris
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Oh Noooo....got to recheck my tree now, didn't think there was so many Drapers, and now I'm finding millions of Rowleys....fingers crossed that I can sort it out!!! ;D ;D
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It happens. Same thing happened to me on my father's side, only sorted by sending for certs.
All Drapers in Cubbington seem to come from Thomas and Julia. It's possible there's a link further back, though.
Ann Skelcey of Cubbington married James Rowley of Wolvey in 1848 so if you have any Rowleys from Wolvey....
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This is just a post to "promote" this thread to near te top of the board so that new people can see the discussion. Chris
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Hi there!
Just wanted to let you know that I was still around. Nothing new when it comes to finding out more/new information. Just took a little break to have a baby and Im slowly getting back into the swing of things. :)
I know who my relatives are. But Im curious as to who on here a distant relatives. My great great grandfather was Charles David Skelcy b 1875, married Emma Clarke b 1885. Charles father: David Skelcy b 1852 Charles Mother: Esther Fitter b 1855
I do not know who Emma Clarkes parents were.
Thanks!~
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Hi Jilly, Welcome back, and Congratulations!
The difficulty lies in the difference between searching for a very rare name like Skelcy/Skelsey and a very common name like Clark/Clarke - taken together (and in an illiterate age like the C19th you HAVE to take them together) this is I believe amongst the top 10 names in England (as opposed to GB). It seems to be particularly common in the Rugby area - I have 3 marrying in from the village or suburb of Long Lawford alone and even now I don't know if they're related to each other.
It doesn't help that Emma is sometimes called Emily, a common alternative. I just tried to find her in 1891 and the only one I can find that fits is Emma Clark (sic) daughter of Sarah widow at West Leyes (RG12/2456, free to view at Hunimex and Freecen). I think this is the same as Sarah Clarke in 1881 at Long Street, Long Lawford (RG11/3076, free at Familysearch) because she is the right age and also born in Long Lawford, but also because there is a "son-in-law" aged 1! (code for step-son, usually) Robert Colledge, and a Sarah Colledge married a George (sic) Clarke in October 1879 in Newbold (IGI), which is where Robert was born (says census). Colledge is not a common name. I'm used to inconsistencies of this sort, and really it needs sending for certs to sort it out, but I've just blown my certs allowance trying to beat the April 5th GRO price increase deadline (see threads in common room.)
Returning to the Skelcys, I think you know about the family of Charles' brother James Skelcy, that moved to Redbrook near Monmouth. One result of the sending for certs is that we are now as certain as can be that the John Skelsey who married Florence Lowe and moved to Frankton is the Cubbington one, the son of my great great uncle John. With the Coventry John Henry (always called that) doing a disappearing act, and the mystery Warwick ones proved to be children of my John's brother Frederick, this means that the one who married Jane Nash in the Bristol area, but who had children in Rugby, can only be the John who is your Charles' brother. I'm in touch with a descendant. The only other surviving sibling was Imri, who seems never to have married (still a bachelor at 38 when he tried to enlist in 1916, died in 1938.)
Hope all that makes sense! Chris
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Chris!
I know that I will have to read and reread all of that a few times over since its been awhile since Ive looked up and really searched for anything lately. :)
Thanks for the congratulations! I just wanted to make sure that it was known that I am still here in case anyone needed info on any of Charles descendents.
Thanks again for the info, you are wonderful!
~Jilly
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Aw, shucks! (*blushes*)
I've still made no sense of Emma Clarke's father - George on the marriage records, Thomas on the census. I did find Robert Colledge in 1891, with his grandparents George and Harriet Colledge. They did have a daughter Sarah, born 1850, which matches. George came from Burbage in Leicestershire, Harriet from Wolston which is nearby. Tracing Clarkes, even if we were sure of the forename, is much harder.
Chris
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hi everyone, i am just starting out but am a skelcey...and this is really really interesting so thanks everyone for the information! My grandad was brian skelcey from cubbington married to kitty and they lived in coventry. Not sure yet how they link in but I will follow this up and let you know anything I find out...
Thanks again
Laura
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Hello Laura. Welcome to Rootschat.
I actually know who you are, your Dad is my second cousin, though I've never met him. I've been in contact with your Dad's brother - though not for some time - so that's how I know about your branch of the family. (I must write to your uncle again.)
Our mutual ancestors were James Skelcey and Sarah Ann Green from Cubbington. They had eleven children of whom ten survived to adulthood and six had families of their own. My granddad was the eldest, George Henry Skelcey born 1873 Cubbington (one of two with those names born there that year). Your great granddad was seventh child and third son James (Jim) born 1886, who married Winifred Carpenter ("Auntie Win" who I met as a child but don't remember.)
Your grandmother's name was Margaret Johnson but she was known as Kitty - don't ask me why, there's a lot of this sort of thing in my tree! Coincidentally Brian's sister Mavis also married a Johnson but he was completely unrelated.
I've traced the elder James Skelcey's parents George Skelcey and Ann Draper back many generations, though before censuses and compulsory birth registration this is not an exact science. Also Sarah Green's father Samuel - her mother Hannah Hudson is a bit of a mystery, though I've followed a family in Ladbroke which seems very likely to be hers.
I have a tree on GenesReunited which shows all of this. I also have photos of James and Sarah in their old age, and one of Jim and Win with Mavis and Brian as children. I'll send you a message about this. Chris
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Promoting the thread (again)
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John Kelsey
In the Nuneaton Court's Baron of Sir Wilughby Aston, Baronet, (also spelt Sir Willoughby Aston) held between 1689 to 1691 a John Kelsey is mentioned as occupying the fields called the "Spring and the Moore" up to the fields of Mr Stratford called the "Priest Field" and close to "Bratts Hall" alias "Bretts Hall" (Brett's Hall). Bretts Hall was near the border of the Medieval 'Manor of Stockingford' (known as Galley Common today), with the Parish of Ansley.
John Kelsey also held the Well Fields in 1690 and the Map of the Titheable Lands (surveyed later in 1842) indicates the "Well Close" field to be at the back of the Plough Inn, Plough Hill Road (on Plough Hill), formerly called the "Holly Bush" Stockingford before 1813 and Joshua Kelsey's circa 1746.
A John Kelsey also lived at the old farm, buildings behind the current Park Farm house, at Park Farm Plough Hill, Galley Common.
Mark
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The query about Barbara Tui Skelcey has been moved to its own thread in the Common Room