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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Ann from Sussex on Sunday 05 September 04 16:25 BST (UK)
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Looking for info re the family of IGNAZ LENHART who came from Hesse-Darmstadt to England 1855.Settled in Enfield and later Tottenham. Family name may have changed during WW1. He worked as a toolmaker at the Royal Small Arms Factory, Enfield. Later he and his family ran a tobacconist's shop at Chestnut Grove, Tottenham.
Ann
I have now been able to prove that this IS NOT my family.
Ann
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The only Lenhart showing so far on 1861 London census is a Kasper Lenhart, aged 27,
St Giles, St Giles in the Field ref 170 48b.
As it is an unusual surname - could be related?
Cheers Cougar
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I don't know if KASPER is a relative; I've certainly never come across him in my researches. Do you have info as regards KASPER'S birthplace and occupation please? As you say, it is a very unusual name. I should know; it was my maiden name!
The IGNAZ LENHART family are on the Middx. census 1871 in Enfield. I am trying to prove that they are my grandfather's family as there don't seem to be any others of that name with that spelling around. Thanks for your interest and help. Ann
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Hi Ann
I only have the ref so have asked a friend who has the full CD to get the details for you - she will post them on here for you
Cheers Cougar
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That's really kind of you and your friend. I'll look forward to seeing the details. Thank you. Ann
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This is from the 1881 census
Name Ignar LENHART Relationship Head Condition M Gender M Age 48 Occupation Tool Maker RSA Fac Birthplace Duchy Of Hesse (NBS), Germany Address 67 Government Row, Enfield, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1395 Folio 127 Page 44 FHL film no. 1341340
2. Name Harriet LENHART Relationship Wife Condition M Gender F Age 44 Occupation – Birthplace Branton, Devon, England Address 67 Government Row, Enfield, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1395 Folio 127 Page 44 FHL film no. 1341340
Amount paid £0.00
3. Name Rosina LENHART Relationship Daur Condition U Gender F Age 17 Occupation – Birthplace Enfield, Middlesex, England Address 67 Government Row, Enfield, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1395 Folio 127 Page 44 FHL film no. 1341340
4. Name Nicholas LENHART Relationship Son Condition – Gender M Age 15 Occupation – Birthplace Enfield, Middlesex, England Address 67 Government Row, Enfield, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1395 Folio 127 Page 44 FHL film no. 1341340
5. Name Harriet LENHART Relationship Daur Condition – Gender F Age 13 Occupation Scholar Birthplace Enfield, Middlesex, England Address 67 Government Row, Enfield, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1395 Folio 127 Page 44 FHL film no. 1341340
6. Name Albert LENHART Relationship Son Condition – Gender M Age 8 Occupation Scholar Birthplace Enfield, Middlesex, England Address 67 Government Row, Enfield, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1395 Folio 127 Page 44 FHL film no. 1341340
7. Name Barbara LENHART Relationship Daur Condition – Gender F Age 6 Occupation Scholar Birthplace Enfield, Middlesex, England Address 67 Government Row, Enfield, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1395 Folio 127 Page 44 FHL film no. 1341340
Cheers Cougar - hope this is the right one
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Further to Cougar's message I am 'the friend' and have looked up the ref for you:
1861: RG170 f48b
28 Gt Queen St. St Giles. Finsbury
Charles W?ITZEL H M 33? Italian warehouseman Germany
Vanisti? " W M 32 "
Carolina HANGER Vis U 18 "
Henry BOLLETA? Lodg M 26 Sommellier Austria
Emma B " " M 27 Oxford
Kasper LENHARD " U 27 Merchant Germany
Hope that helps. Joyce
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Hi Ann
Tried looking at the 1851 - but there is no Gt Queen St showing up for London - sorry also cannot find him in the 1881 census.
Cougar
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Thanks to you both. I have the 1881 details for the Ignaz(mispelt as IGNAR on the LDS transcription) Lenharts. I can trace them from his arrival in London in 1855 up to 1914 when the trail disappears. Almost certainly they changed their name during WW1. I'm not sure about Kasper LENHARD. There are numerous variations of spelling for our surname but my family has always been consistent in using "LENHART". It is possible it was misheard by the enumerator, of course but first names keep reappearing through the generations in the family I have been following and in my immediate family and Kasper isn't one of them. Anyway, I shall keep him in mind and keep looking and if anyone has any more information, it will all be gratefully received. Thanks again for your help. Ann
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silly thought - its 12.30 here - so you might just have to ignore this - but if they changed the Lenhart/Lenhard - could it have become something close like Lennard? Only Christian name that might have been altered is the father - the other names are all English sounding?
Cougar
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No, it's a good thought...which I've already explored but without any luck! If it had been me, I would have altered it to Lennard if I felt I had to change it at all. The other alternative is Leonard but that is such a common surname, it is like looking for a needle in a haystack! The children were all British born and their mother was English. Only the father Ignaz had been born in Germany and he died in 1896. It's just that, to me, it looks very German and they may have felt sensitive about it. Having said that, my Dad and his mother lived through WW1 in rural Kent with that name and had no trouble...but my Grandma's family were local and she would have been known as a local girl. Ann
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Ann
I know this is of no help to trace your grandad,but.....do you know there are only three Lenhart families on the current electoral roll.You may well know them all?
A couple in London and another in Grantham and one lady in Manchester.
So as you say- yes quite rare.
Just thought I'd throw that in!!!
Carol
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Thanks Carol. I have written to all the Lenharts who are on the Electoral Roll. The people in London wrote back but are not connected to my family. None of the others replied, even though I enclosed s.a.es. I suppose in these days of identity theft, you do have to be careful but I was disappointed. Ann
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None of the others replied, even though I enclosed s.a.es. I suppose in these days of identity theft, you do have to be careful but I was disappointed
I did a similar thing a couple of years ago,I wrote a letter (including an sae) and sent it to the address in Manchester where my ggrandparents lived in 1881 in the hope that the current occupants might be able to provide me with a photo of the house etc.
Many months later I had heard nothing and gave up hope and then a letter arrived with a Manchester postmark I was elated and tore the envelope open only to find my original letter inside with a cover note from the Greater Manchester Police that politely informed me that the letter had been delivered to the address but was found unopened when they busted a load of druggies that were squatting there >:( :(
I guess what I'm trying to say is,give it time,but prepare yourself for the fact that it might not be good news :(
That said,I hope it doesn't happen to you,
Best wishes,Mick ;)
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Oh dear! At least nothing like that has happened to me but it has been months and months now with no replies, so I am resigned to not hearing. I must say, if I got a letter out of the blue from a possible relative, I would be over the moon, if a bit circumspect in my reply until I was sure who and what I was dealing with. But then...I am a genealogy junky!
Ann
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Hi
this may be going off at a tangent here, but let me know if I should look further.
I looked up the german database GEDBAS and found a
Kaspar Friedrich Lenhard, Born in 1832 in Petterweil, Hesse
His age corresponds roughly to the London "merchant" but there is at the moment no way of knowing, if he is "yours" !
I've added the reference here, because there is a family tree going back another three generations. Any names that constantly recurr(ed) in your family ?
http://gedbas.genealogy.net/stammbaum.jsp;jsessionid=A4FC0F9AB26F909A8481725AB8AC2690?nr=5007258
Let me know if I you'd like me to keep digging ...
Hals und Beinbruch ! (don't get worried, it's a german phrase for "good luck !")
Bob
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Hi Bob. I've had a look at the info you sent me. The names that recurr in my English Lenharts are IGNAZ, HENRY, NICHOLA(U)S, ROSINA and BARBARA. On the tree you have directed me to there is a Johann Gerhard I. Lenhard, so he may have had the name Ignaz. He had a son named Johann Heinrich who was born at the right time to be my Ignaz's father.I have the marriage certficate for IGNAZ LENHART and HARRIETT DAVIES who were married in Whitechapel in 1859. Ignaz's father is shown as HEINRICH and his occupation "Locksmith". Ignaz had arrived in London on the s.s. Batavia from Rotterdam in 1855. His description in the Master's log was "Schlosser from Darmstadt". I understand schlosser is fitter in English. Is Petterweil anywhere near Darmstadt? It seems possible that this could be my family..so yes, if you could dig a bit further please, I would be very grateful. What do you think of the idea of me sending an email to the person who has put this tree on the site? Would that be accepted practice in Germany? Thanks very much for your help. Ann
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Hi Ann,
I went back and had a look at Johann Georg LENHARD (Kaspar's father):
http://gedbas.genealogy.net/datenblatt.jsp;jsessionid=15014C51780286D404FF435E9361BFE9?nr=50079
and his descendents (Nachkommen):
http://gedbas.genealogy.net/pdesc1.jsp;jsessionid=15014C51780286D404FF435E9361BFE9?nr=50079
No IGNAZ !
But it's still a good idea to e-mail the contributor. I don't know about "acceptable practice in Germany" as I have never done it, but my gut feeling says, that anybody doing family research would be pleased to hear of possible links, especially from abroad.
Even if Kaspar isn't "yours", he could belong to this family (i.e. no death date, maybe because he emigrated to England and the family lost touch ... ?) and they would probably be thrilled to find out more about him.
So, do it ! Need any help with german ? Let me know !
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I've taken your advice and sent an email so now I will sit back and hope for a reply. I'll keep you posted as to any outcome. Thanks for your interest and help. I may just have to take you up on that offer of help with German! Ann