RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: art.birchell on Friday 25 November 05 11:52 GMT (UK)
-
My 3 x great grandparents Robert and Margaret Eliza Haggarty/Haggerty were found in Glasgow with children Robert b 1832, Francis b1835 and Margaret b 1840 in the 1841 Census. It states that both parents were born in England around 1810, although it is thought Robert Sen may have been born in Scotland as was son Francis. Yet by 1857 both parents are recorded as deceased.
I have searched endlessly at SRO and in England for death certificates but to no avail. The 1851 census is my last hope of finding out where Robert Haggarty was really born. I am wondering if someone could kindly do a look up in the 1851 census for Durham to see if they can be found there. Northumberland is possible as 2 of the children were born in Newcastle but Co Durham is more likely as Margaret Eliza was born in Bishopswearmouth in 1810 and father Robert Graydon was found there in the 1851 census. Most of her other children were born in Co Durham.
Here is the 1841 Census record
Piece: SCT1841/622 Place: Barony-Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Barony Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 175 Page: 41
Address: Finiston, Horroch St
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
HAGGARTY Robert M 30 Potter England ?
HAGGARTY Margret F 30 England
HAGGARTY Robert M 8 England
HAGGARTY Francis M 6 England
HAGGARTY Margret F 1 England
Marriage certificates for the children give Robert Haggarty as an Earthenware Warehouseman/Pottery Salesman.
Other children were born after 1841. known names Isabella Haggarty b 1842, Charles b 1845, Mary b 1847 William b 1848.
Note: A search on the National Archives Ancestry.co.uk Index gives most of these names under HAGGART resident in Co Durham. I believe this may be them as the Robert Haggart b 1811 and Francis b 1835 are both in Scotland whereas all the others are born in Durham as is the case with my Haggartys. This may account for why it's taken me years to find them.
I would appreciate any help in a look up and finding them. Thanking you in advance.
Best Regards
Art Birchell.
-
Hi Art, i don't know if you'll be happy with this
Robert Haggart c1811 born Scotland a warehouseman (pottery)
Margaret c1811 born City of Durham
Robert c1834 born " a potters draper
Thomas c1835 born Scotland a potters plaiter
Margaret c1840 born City of Durham
Isabella c1843 born "
Charles c1845 "
William c1849 "
John c1851 "
Richard Edge c1823 born potterns, staffs a lodger
Benjamin Packer c1823 born Durham a lodger.
Hope it helps, all the best, Kate.
-
Sorry forgot to mention they are living in Stockton on Tees. Kate.
-
Hi Kate.
I cannot thank you enough for this information. Being an English record, at that time, I am sure it is far more reliable than what is available prior to 1855 in Scotland. I have searched for years but now that all the census's become available I find myself retired and unable to afford the subscriptions. So you help is all the more appreciated.
It establishes that Robert was born in Scotland, possibly Berwickshire, as there are other Haggarty's there. It also shows a family involvement in pottery and earthenware. It shows that the daughter Mary must have died but also shows the son Robert, an adult, and another son John that I didn't know of.
Sometime before 1861 William and Charles are found in Milton Glasgow, where Francis (Thomas) married in 1857. Yet I'm uncertain if the other children besides my 2 x great grandmother survived.
This seems to be the final sighting of Robert and Margaret Eliza Haggarty and I can only hope someday I may find their death records in order to get the names of Robert's parents, who by the naming code my have been Thomas Haggarty and a Mary.
I thank you so much for your kindness in doing this look up for me. I hope that others will be just as kind in helping you out.
Many many thanks!
Very kind regards
Art Birchell
-
If you can't find either of their death certificate's what lead's you think that they are both dead? I've looked for a Robert Haggarty/Haggerty/Haggart with no joy but I've found an Elizabeth Haggart in the 1861 census a widow living with her daughter Margaret Jane born 1851 although I've looked at the census page and for the life of me have no idea what it says, it looks more like 19 than 10 or 11 to me. Do you think that maybe she ever used her second name? Just trying to open a few possibilities if your not sure that they were dead. Let me know what you think, Kate.
-
Forgot to mention that they were living in South Shields, County Durham. Kate.
-
If they died in 1857 what happened to the youngest children?
-
Hi Kate. Thanks again for trying for the death records. The marriage certificate of Francis (Thomas) Haggarty in 1857 states the names of both parents but says they are deceased. The advantage of the Scottish certificates is that it gives both parents names. Funnily the mother's name is given as Elizabeth Haggarty ms Graydon.
I've always thought there is a mystery over Robert's death, perhaps he was jailed or sent to Australia. Isabella doesn't name any of her children Robert after her father or grandfather. She had 10 children and they follow the naming code except for Robert.
Another oddity was Isabella stated her mother's name was Margaret GREEN in 1868. As she gave birth to an illegitimate daughter in 1862 in the Poor House in Glasgow, I often wondered whether she fell out with her parents and joined her brothers in Scotland.
I received a look up in Glasgow in 1861 which gives Francis, Charles and William but no Isabella or John. If it's not to much trouble could you take a look in the 1861 Census for the two of them. It may show links to other family.
Thank you once again.
Very Best Regards
Art
-
If you can't find either of their death certificate's what lead's you think that they are both dead? I've looked for a Robert Haggarty/Haggerty/Haggart with no joy but I've found an Elizabeth Haggart in the 1861 census a widow living with her daughter Margaret Jane born 1851 although I've looked at the census page and for the life of me have no idea what it says, it looks more like 19 than 10 or 11 to me. Do you think that maybe she ever used her second name? Just trying to open a few possibilities if your not sure that they were dead. Let me know what you think, Kate.
The 1851 census reference to Margaret is the last I have. She doesn't appear to have gone to Scotland like the others. Here christening record has her as Margaret Eliza, although Margaret SEN had a sister Jane so it could have been amongst her names. Jane Graydon married an Aaron Ryles and may be around South Shields or those parts.
I wonder whether there were any epidemic's in Durham during the 1851 -1861 time frame that killed off some of them. Again the young Margaret could have reached marriage age during that time before the 1861 census and married and settled down. There are other Haggarty's in Durham at that time but I've never established a family link. There is a John Haggarty who may have been a brother of Robert Haggarty. So many came across from Ireland and I have never established a link with the Irish Haggarty's.
I note that the name HAGGART without the "Y" has entries going back many years to the 1600's in Durham and Northumberland and not the normal Irish link.
From the naming code I have felt that Robert's father would be called Thomas. In the crew list for the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805 there is a sailor Thomas Haggarty, aged 22 b Newcastle. Often wondered if there was a link.
-
The only Isabella Haggarty/Haggart/Haggerty is this one living in Normanby, Yorkshire
Joseph Sayers c1824 born Barnard Castle, Durham a widower and a labourer
Joseph Thomas c1860 born Tees Tilery
Isabella Haggart c1841 born Scotland a housekeeper
David Joseph c1860 born Tees Tilery
William Sullivan c1830 born Ireland a labourer and lodger
Jane c1829 born Ireland
John c1859 born Middlesborough
William c1860 born "
I presume Tees Tilery is in Durham although I can't find it on the map for any county. Strange that Sayers son and Isabella were both born there! Do you think this may be her. I know you said her child was born in 62 and it was a girl but this is the only Isabella or like you said she may have gone to Scotland.
Regards
Kate.
-
Hi Kate. I'm afraid this isn't her and just this minute I see someone in Glasgow says she is living in the Anderson district there with a whole lot of Irish folk. Again it may not be her there either although it states place of birth as England.
You done some great work and it's opened a whole lot of new questions. Any sign of Robert Haggarty b 1834 at all? Having found him I wonder whether he survived and married.
In earlier research I found a Robert Haggarty that married an Ann Hay and from 1859 had a number of children in the Edinburgh area but no marriage certificate in Scotland. I've long wondered where this may be the Robert born in Durham. 1859 would be the marrying age if he was born around 1834, but where?
Many many thanks
Art
-
The only Robert I can find which is remotely familiar to Haggarty
Margaret J Mckelvie 1811 born Lanarkshire (Glasgow)
William c1835 a ?hayfarmer born "
Robert ?Hassard/Haggard/Haggart c1833 Nephew born Lanarkshire (Glasgow).
Seem to be a very hard family to trace I'm afraid. Shame all the UK census' weren't incorporated so it wasn't so difficult! Kate.
-
Seem to be a very hard family to trace I'm afraid. Shame all the UK census' weren't incorporated so it wasn't so difficult! Kate.
Definitely are and I've spent a fortune in the past trying to get any further back than the info I have already. If they incorporated all the census's Ancestry and SRO wouldn't be able to make a fortune out of us all. I waited for the day these census's became available only to find I can't afford to access them. For this I am ever indebted to you and other kind hearted researchers. Many many thanks. Will see if Berwickwickshire holds out any information. I need to check my former SRO account as I found a lot of Haggarty's there. The involvement in Earthenware leads me there although the 1851 Census result for Stockton shows a lodger from Staffordshire, home of the Potteries.
Glasgow had factories producing earthenware goods as the son Francis, on his death certificate is down as Warehouseman at the Eartheware factory.
-
I wish you the best of luck. I thought my family were hard to find, at least they don't have all different kinds of spellings and move from one country to the next. Let me know how you get on and also if you need help with any other look-ups!
All the very best, Kate.
-
Thank you so much for the kind offer Kate and thank you so much for unraveling the mystery of the 1851 census. I've long known of different spellings in other lines of the family but never gave it a thought that they'd be found without the "Y".
I'm going to try searching through my old Scottish Registry office account for previous searches. I recall finding a Haggarty family of earthenware dealers there.Or maybe it was the Free Census for 1841. They had a son called Robert I believe. Will post the information if I do find it as I know the were other Haggarty's in Durham.
-
Hi, dont know how old this thread is but I'm related to the Haggarty's Robert and Mgt E, if you need any information on their life in Stockton?
-
oh gosh just noticed it's from 2005, aw well nice try!
-
Hi, dont know how old this thread is but I'm related to the Haggarty's Robert and Mgt E, if you need any information on their life in Stockton?
Hi Joolzy.
Lovely to find this surprise. I have just discovered your reply having been unwell over the past few years. Last year I moved and lost easy access to much of my research work followed by computer disk problems. I would be very interested to hear from you and exchange information with you. If you contact me by private message I'll let you have my contact details.