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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Monday 21 November 05 14:33 GMT (UK)
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Hi, Everyone,
Could I ask whether someone with local knowledge of the Isleworth area knows if The Swan Inn, two doors away from the Gatfield family I enquired about in the 1851 Census (HO 107 Folio 1696 page 148), is the same hostelry today as The Swan Inn, Swan Street, Isleworth.
It's just that the street on the 1851 image is not given...
very best wishes,
keith
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Keith,
You've puzzled me - Hanworth and Isleworth are a few miles apart. Which one did you mean?
Nell
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Sorry, Keith,
Just re-read your message. Hanworth is not the same place as Isleworth. Isleworth is on the river Thames just upstream of Brentford, while Hanworth is not. It is about 4 miles away (roughly south) from Isleworth.
Nell
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Hi, Nell,
Well, it gives Hanworth in the 1851 Census, and I googled just now with The Swan, Hanworth. This threw up The Swan in modern-day Isleworth - I just thought that maybe they were one and the same place; I hadn't realised that they might be some distance from one another...
Keith
Four miles away, as you've further informed me, probably means it's not the same pub at all, sorry!
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A little local history for you if you are interested: the Swan in Isleworth was first recorded as licensed premises in 1722 and rebuilt (shame) in about 1930.
The Swan in Hanworth was rebuilt in the 1920s and stood near the junction of Bear Road, Green Lane, Maid Street and Swan Road.
I can't find any pictures of them at the moment - only corners of them!
Nell
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An excellent local history lesson, Nell!
Now I realise that they were definitely different watering holes - and what a pity that neither is still standing as the original...
Keith
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Couldn't help put a word in edgeways - I used to live off Swan Road, Hanworth and walked my children passed 'The Swan' on the way to their school. I didn't actually sample the wares but a lad in one of my son's classes actually lived there. It's still in the same location.
What was the address of the Gatfield family? I'm not so far away from it now and can check if it's still there (though I doubt it).
Phil
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Phil,
Thanks so much for giving this thread some thought. I need to discover where I put the original page from the 1851 Census that some kind person on Rootschat sent me in November, then I'll get back to you, hopefully with the number of the house...
Very best wishes,
Keith
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Keith,
The notification of this topic moving board reminds me that a friend produced an old book with photos of old Hanworth the other day and I think the picture I saw of 'The Swan' might have been the original
pre-1920s building.
Cheers,
Phil
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Keith
If you Google The Swan, Hanworth, there is a photo.
It still stands.
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Phil and Mentmore,
Funny how a thread that has been sinking slowly without trace (for 2 and a half years) has a last death twitch when being supposedly quietly laid to rest in the Completed graveyard...
Thanks very much for all that extra information, and I'll definitely follow up those two leads, then re-contact my sister-in-law, whose family were involved,
very best wishes,
keith
N.B. Now to "Complete" the rest of the long list I was given yesterday...
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Hello Keith
Are you related to the Gatfields of Hanworth? Mr Gatfield the Blacksmith?
I live in Hanworth and there is a block of flats named after him "Gatfield House"
There are also other flats named after old residents of Hanworth and I was thinking of getting their descendants all together for a history walk\day.
best wishes
Katy
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Katy,
This is extraordinary! The GATFIELD's are my sister-in-law's family, and the reason that I said I'd do a bit of research for her was the occasion of my mother's 80th birthday party nearly 5 years ago, when most of our family gathered.
She's away on holiday at the moment, but I'll tell her the news when she returns next week...
Are you a local historian for Hanworth, or simply an enthusiast for the area?
Look forward to hearing more about this!
Regards, Keith
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Hello Keith
Well - yes - I am a local historian for Hanworth -(just a title I have given myself)!
As I am sitting here I can glance out of my window and see Gatfield House! You may like to read some history of the area that I've put online: www.buttsfarm.org (http://www.buttsfarm.org) and follow the history link.
My ideas for researching the area came from: I was born here; I knew that when it was built (council housing estate) it was a model esate, I wondered where the name Butts Farm came from, I was asked to buld a website for the local community - that was when the Ah! moment came and I put my research online! and I love tracing my family tree and finding out what was happening when my ancestors were alive!
So Gatfield House was one of 7 blocks of flats on the estate - not perhaps the prettiest flats but very roomy inside - some are on two levels so could be classed as maisonettes.
In the early days everyone knew their neighbours - all the children went to the same schools - walking to school! I have some very good friends who grew-up in Gatfield House.
All the best
Katy
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Katy,
This is all fascinating stuff, and I'll certainly contact my sister-in-law about it all when she gets back from her holiday on Wednesday. One of her GATFIELD direct ancestors was definitely a blacksmith, but I gave her all my research 5 years ago, and need her to refresh my memory...
Very best wishes, keith
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Hello Keith
Another little snippet for you: there is a Forge Lane in Hanworth - named after the forge that was there - whether it is the one Mr Gatfield was working at I'm not sure - in Forge Lane there is Forge Lane School - which my daughter went to.
Best wishes Katy
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Hi again, Katy,
Sorry I didn't acknowledge your post back in August, but as Christmas is a time when families get together, yesterday was no exception and I picked up the thread of this investigation again with my sister-in-law. The Daniel GATFIELD, blacksmith and churchwarden, who is mentioned in connection with Enclosure awards of 1800 in Hanworth in that link you provided on post 13 is definitely her 4-times great-grandfather, and she is descended through one of his sons, James GATFIELD, b.1807, (also a blacksmith) and then through two generations of namesakes Edward GATFIELD's; the family moved north of the river to Poplar some time after the 1851 Census.
She's actually given me a wonderful photo taken possibly at the turn of the 19thC/20thC showing her great-grandfather in a group of men working on what looks like some kind of railway/tram line, and I'm thinking of posting it on Rootschat so that those very clever people on here can touch it up a little, or at least identify when the photo was taken or where in London it might be situated.
Have you in fact arranged any local history days in Hanworth since you last spoke of the possibility on here...?
Very best wishes, keith
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Hello Keith
Thank you very much for your very interesting message (good fun this!) - and no I haven't arranged any local history days...yet...where do you live? I will be having a little meeting - I made a powerpoint show re Mr Whiteley who took over Butts Farm late 1800s that I will show at the meeting... I've got caught up in volunteering to get our community centre rebuilt and sadly the history has slipped but this year I want to spend more time on history - it is so interesting.
Many thanks and best wishes for 2011
I'll send you another post with a facebook group that I am sure you'll be interested in.
best wishes
Katy
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On of my relatives Sarah Hannah Jones is cited to have been born at the Swan Inn Hanworth 1894.
If anyone has any further information I would be really interested.
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I have just found this link and I am also related to Daniel Gatfield the blacksmith of Hanworth! My Great Gran was Rose Gatfield. Any information that you have would be gratefully received. I did live in Hanworth but am now in Cornwall. I know that Daniel Gatfield is buried in St George's Church, Hanworth - where I was christened.
There is a group on Facebook which I belong to - probably the same one you are talking about in your post Katy - called The Feltham, Hanworth and Bedfont Appreciation Society. They have some great old photos etc.
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Hi, Drucilla, and welcome to Rootschat!
Have you had a look at that thread on Photo restoration and dating, where there was a phenomenal response to a photo of Edward GATFIELD in a gang of street workers in Poplar. I'll try and find the link...
I would like to PM you (send you a Personal Message, and thereafter communicate by e-mail), but I believe that you have to have sent 3 posts before that is possible. Must look again at the GATFIELD family tree to see where your Rose fits in, and then I must contact my sister-in-law to tell her that she has another family member!
Very best wishes, keith
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,505109.0.html
That's the link above, Drucilla...
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Hello Keith,
The Swan inn your on about in Isleworth would that be the Swan in old Isleworth,
as that would be the same Pub that my parents run back in the 60s along with the
Duke of Cambridge in Kneller Rd Whitton, opposite Kneller Army music Hall,
My Great grandmother was Amy Gatfields Apr 1879 Twickenham,
She married Charles James Payne born 1881 Isleworth, There daughter my grandmother was
Dorothy May Payne 1910-1953 Twickenham
Twickenham,Isleworth,Hanworth,Brentford, all came under the same registry office for the area in the 1800s
So are you related to the Gatfield Family as well Keith?.
I have a tree on ancestry.co
Keith59
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Hello kt4u/Katy
I was reading the replies to keith's thred on the swan inn,
I too used to live in Hanworth, down Canterbury Rd.
Was back in Hanworth last year sadly for a funeral,
But could not believe how much it has changed since I moved away,
Have very fund memory’s of growing up there.
I have an old 1934 ordnance survey map of Hanworth Park.
If you would like it.
Kind regards
keith59
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Hi, keith59, and welcome to Rootschat!
And thank you very much for that PM you sent me too. This is all very exciting, and I must speak to my sister-in-law about the GATFIELD family history. However I'm off on a short holiday for a bit of walking, and won't be back until the end of next week. But I'll certainly be in touch when I get back...
regards, keith
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Hello again keith. Thought you were no longer searching. Joyce has information on the Swann Inn if you contact her directly.
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Hello Emily Grace,
Sent Keith a PM as i used to live in The Swan Inn in Old Isleworth in the early 60s
when my parents ran the pub for the then owner The Judge,
my parents also ran The Duke Of Cambridge in Kneller Rd Whitton accross the Rd from Kneller Hall
so we lived there too,
would live to here from you on The Swan Inn, I was only young but still remember it well,
Kind Regards.
Keith59
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Hello Keith
Can't Wait to here from you when you get back from your Holiday have a good one
I have a tree on ancestry.co with over 2300 relatives,
Regards
Keith59
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Hello Cheeks100 I have just joined Roots Chat and have read your post I don't know if you still use Roots Chat or if you will ever read this but would be interested to hear from you. Sarah Hannah Jones was my Grandmother and was born at "The Swan" Hanworth I don't know what your connection is but would love to hear from you.
Regards Chris
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I don't wish to waste your time so letting you know that I do not have information on this, it was a mistake. Sorry but wish you luck.
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Hello Chris, I have just read your message about The Swan. My interest is through local rather than family history. If you have any info you would like to share I would love to hear from you. What dates was your grandmother there?
I have some history for Hanworth on my website that you might like to peruse: https://sites.google.com/site/buttsfarmproject/events/history
Katy Cox