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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: jacoby28 on Tuesday 08 November 05 14:45 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help with a marriage between William Batham and Mary Champlovier (various spellings) before c1837 when they were living in the Kensington area? Any assistance or pointers will be much appreciated. Thanks...................Jack
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Hi Jack, the only William Batham I could find on the IGI was married to a Maria Wheatly 8/8/1836. Paddington.
KenB
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Hello Ken,
Thanks for that, but the one I'm after is the generation before.....This one's a real rascal trying to tie down, but they're hiding there somewhere!....Thanks for trying. Jack
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Hello Jack
I'm looking at some of the oldies and came across this one............
The name of Champlovier is akin to rocking horse something or other....not much about...............come to that the name of Batham is somewhat similiar!
At first glance they don't appear to be around in 1841...........they are it's just a matter of finding them and under what name?
1861
3&4 COAL YARD, ST GILES, LONDON, MIDDX
MARY CHAMPELOVIER HEAD 56 (WID) LAUNDRESS CORSHAM, WILTSHIRE
JAMES " SON 26 porter to a club house ST GILES, MIDDX
FREDERICK " " 22 hammerman to a blacksmith "
FRANCIS " " 16 apprentice to a bookbinder "
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*FREDERICK was born March qtr of 1839 Bloomsbury
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1861
14 WILLIAM STREET, KENSINGTON, ST MARY ABBOTS, LONDON, MIDDX
JOHN CHAMPELOVIER HEAD 24 PLASTERER KENSINGTON, MIDDX
ELIZABETH " WIFE 23 LAUNDRESS "
JOHN " SON 3 "
HENRY " " 1 "
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1861
67 SUDBURY ALPERTON, HARROW, MIDDX
CHARLES CHAMPOLOVIER HEAD 36 (UNM) LONDON, MIDDX (crippled)
FREDERICK WILLIAMS SERV 14 GENERAL SERVANT KENSINGTON, MIDDX
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BIRTHS........HENRY CHAMPELOVIER....KENSINGTON...SEPT 1839
ELIZABETH CHAMPELOVIOR....KENSINGTON....JUN 1841
The question is..............where are any of these in 1841 and under what name?
Bryant
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Hi have found the spelling Champeleyer over in Notting Hill in 1860.
Jennifer
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Hello Bryant and Jennifer, Thanks for taking the time to look 'em up for me. Spent last week in Devon chasing the distaff side....Less elusive too.
I have Champloviers in 1841 on HO107/1468/610/46 and /611/48 living in the Potteries or Notting Dale....(North) Kensington. 1861 Widow Mary of Corsham is living with husband Henry age 48 b St Giles, a general dealer, with family, Charles 26, James 26,John 15, Henry 11, George 7, and daughter Jane, aged 4.
My William Batham is a few doors down the same road aged 66, with wife Mary b St Giles, (nee Champlovier) and sons George and Edward........Looks as though I've got to go to London and look at St Giles to get any further back with them.
Again, Thanks for the input..............Jack B
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Hello Jack
Now I always thought that origins network has the best transcribing for the 1841 that you'll get....anywhere! but a census reference doesn't mean anything ie I can't input it!
CHAMPLOVIER all variants/all Counties brings up = 0 for 1841
So............can you tell me the name/spelling/age/and county/parish they are in in 1841 please...........I feel so much happier when iv'e seen them!
Bryant
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You certainly have a way with words.
Unfortunately, as these are paper copies of originals which I've had for several years, I'm unable to cut and paste, and my typing skills are probably appropriate for the average eighty-year old. Hence my attempt at transcribing fell somewhat short of your standards. Herewith revised attempt :-
Parish Kensington (part of)
Ecclesiastic District St James (part of)
Street name Potteries or Notting Dale
HENRY CHAMPLOVER Head M 48 General Dealer Mdx St Giles
ELIZABETH DO Wife 46 Wilts Cosham
CHARLES DO Son 26 Cattle Dealer MdxClerkenwell
JAMES DO Son 26 Labourer '' '' ''
JOHN DO Son 16 '' '' '' Potteries
HENRY DO Son 11 '' '' '' ''
GEORGE DO Son 7 '' ''
JANE DO Dau 4 '' ''
The census reference remains the same HO107/1468/611/48 and it is 1841.
Hope you find this easier to understand.................... Jack B
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Thats the 1851 census, just looked it up on ancestry :-\
(1841 doesn't state places of birth, just Y for born in county or N for Not born in county)
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Did find this family in 1841 (transcribed "Champlman")
1841 HO107/673/19 Folio 5 Page 2
Great St Andrews St West Side, St Giles North, St Giles in the Field, Middlesex
Peter Champlover 65 Edge Tool Maker Y
Mary 40 N
Thos 15 Edge Tool Maker Y
Elizth 13 Y
Jacob 7 Y
Peter 5 Y
Fredk 2 Y
Regards
Catherine
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Thank you Catherine.....
Looks very much as though they all originated in St Giles. Means a trip to the LMA, which I've been putting off for ages. Devon was nice anyway!
Regards.................Jack B
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Catherine et al,
Whoops! I do apologise.............It's this ageing thing.
Jack B
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Jack B
I'm trying to get a picture/build a family of Champlovier (variants) to find your Mary who married William Batham pre 1837!
now............we know that
Did find this family in 1841 (transcribed "Champlman")
1841 HO107/673/19 Folio 5 Page 2
Great St Andrews St West Side, St Giles North, St Giles in the Field, Middlesex
Peter Champlover 65 Edge Tool Maker Y
Mary 40 N
Thos 15 Edge Tool Maker Y
Elizth 13 Y
Jacob 7 Y
Peter 5 Y
Fredk 2 Y
Regards
Catherine
1861
3&4 COAL YARD, ST GILES, LONDON, MIDDX
MARY CHAMPELOVIER HEAD 56 (WID) LAUNDRESS CORSHAM, WILTSHIRE
JAMES " SON 26 porter to a club house ST GILES, MIDDX
FREDERICK " " 22 hammerman to a blacksmith "
FRANCIS " " 16 apprentice to a bookbinder "
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*FREDERICK was born March qtr of 1839 Bloomsbury
AND............we know that a Henry Champlover is around as well.....
although you have given us the 1851 and not the 1841.......if it was the 1841 it would be the only one in existence to give relationships and place of birth!
Parish Kensington (part of)
Ecclesiastic District St James (part of)
Street name Potteries or Notting Dale
1851 CENSUS
HENRY CHAMPLOVER Head M 48 General Dealer Mdx St Giles
ELIZABETH DO Wife 46 Wilts Cosham
CHARLES DO Son 26 Cattle Dealer MdxClerkenwell
JAMES DO Son 26 Labourer '' '' ''
JOHN DO Son 16 '' '' '' Potteries
HENRY DO Son 11 '' '' '' ''
GEORGE DO Son 7 '' ''
JANE DO Dau 4 '' ''
The census reference remains the same HO107/1468/611/48 and it is 1841.
*Henry aged 11 appears to be born HENRY CHAMPELOVIER in the Sept qtr of 1839 within the registration district of Kensington
This birth cert would hopefully give you where they was living in the later part of 1839........would they have still been there in 1841?
SO..........we have Peter in 1841 and for love or money we can't find Henry in 1841............but those we see in 1861 trace back to one or tuther
I think I will try the Batham's :'(
Where do you last see them.........on a Batham birth cert, or on the 1841/1851 census
Bryant
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Hello Bryant
Birth certs first:-
Aug 30 1837 Charles Boy Father Christopher William Batham of Notting Dale Kensington. Mother Mary Batham late Champlover
Father's Occupation Pig Dealer. Informant Mary Batham Notting Dale Kensington , mother of child.
Oct 23 1839 George, Boy Father William Batham. Mother Mary Batham formerly Champlover. Fathers Occupation Locksmith. Informant Mary Batham ,mother. Potteries.
Death Cert
12 Dec 1853 William Batham Male 67 years Pig Dealer Informant Mary Harrington present at death Potteries Kensington.
Mary Harrington Later married Edward above.
Death Cert
20 Jun 1870 at 8 Thomas Place Potteries Mary Batham 76 Widow of William Batham Locksmith.
Census 1851
Parish Kensington Address 131 Potteries or Notting Dale.
William BATHAM Head 66 Journeyman whitesmith born St Martins
Mary '' '' Wife 56 '' St Giles
George '' '' Son 12 Assistant '' Kensington
Edward '' '' Son ? '' '' '' '' ''
On my copy Edward's age is hard to read.
On marriage Cert of Edward to Mary Harrington in 1858 his father is shown as Christopher William Batham Locksmith and Bellhanger.
On marriage Cert of Louisa Batham in 1854 resident in Potteries her father is shown as William Christopher deceased.
Kensington....Potteries and Notting Dale are the same place.
For what it's worth , in the Westminster Polltax returns for 1796, a William Batham Locksmith of Peter Street is listed. This is probably in the right area for St Giles and St Martins origins of my William and Mary.
Regards................Jack B ???
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Pallots Marriage Index -
Hy Champelovier c St Giles Cripplegate 1827
May Elizth s
Regards
Catherine
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Thank you Catherine,
That was swift, and interestingly ties up St Giles very nicely. Food for more thought. Much appreciated
Regards...........jack B
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Tried to find him in the directories to no avail...............
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/findbylocation.asp
and I couldn't find the places/streets called Potteries or Notting Dale in 1841
>:(
Bryant
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Bryant,
If you enter Notting Dale into Google, hit the first map , enlarge it then look just to the north of Holland Park Rd you will find Princes St. ... Potteries La is an extension. Most of the old area was pulled down years ago, and there were brickfields just to the east of the railway line. An interesting site is the next one listed on Google, it gives some of the history of the place.
Jack B
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:)Hi, I'm new to this site. being in Australia makes it difficult to trace ancestors beyond the censuses on line. My brother still in England has helped a lot. My grandfather was George Batham b1866. I have only found him in the 1881 census where he is listed at the Boy's Brigade and no mother is given. 1901 census he is married to Sarah Burris He may be the son of George Batham b.1835 and Jane Phillips, But since they married in 1871 after the birth of 3 children I am a bit doubtful. George b1835 was the son of William and Mary, who I assume was Champolovier . Before that I have Christopher Batham, married Sarah Steele 1785 who may be the parents of William. Can any one help me confirm that what I have is correct. Roy
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Hello Aussie Roy
Welcome to rootschat.......
First up.........best to start your own post! i'm sure Jack B doesn't mind but it does get a bit confusing
Anyway......your George (from the 1881 census) appears to be born GEORGE E BATHAM .... March qtr... 1866...Kensington ..... vol 1a....page 81
Here is George & family in 1871 & 1861 + some extras
1871
5 THOMAS STREET, KENSINGTON, ST JOHN & ST JAMES, MIDDX
GEORGE BAYHAAN HEAD 34 BRICKLAYER KENSINGTON, MIDDX
JANE " WIFE 30 CHELSEA, "
EMILY J " DAUR 7 " "
GEORGE " SON 5 KENSINGTON, "
GEORGE HAMMOND nephew 16 LAB "
AMELIA BAYHAAN DAUR 6 WEEK "
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GEORGE BATHAM was born Dec qtr 1839....Kensington...vol 3...page 240
AMELIA BATHAM born... March qtr...1871...Kensington...vol 1a...page 155
*always nice to find a nephew :)
1861
THOMAS STREET, ST MARY ABBOTS KENSINGTON, MIDDX
MARY BATHAM HEAD (WID) 66 LAUNDRESS LONDON
GEORGE " SON 21 BRICKLAYER , MIDDX
EMMA TASH ? grandaur 10 "
JOHN HAMMOND grandson 6 "
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*transcribed as TASH ......... very difficult to read but doubt it is Tash?
* now where have I seen that name Hammond before ;D
LOUISA BATHAM married JOHN POTTER HAMMOND in the Dec qtr of 1854.... Kensington....vol 1a.....page 89
the cert would give you Louisa's father's name and occupation....£ 7-00 online in England.....somewhat different in Oz?
Bryant
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Thanks Bryant
being new here I'm not sure how to start my own post.
Having exhausted all avenues on the Batham side I thought I'd have a look at Mary Champolovier. So I put Champolovier in the google search. Can you imagine my surprise when it came up with this site. My brother had already found her and a connection to Ardeche in France. We speculated that her parents may have been refugees from the French Revolution, but no evidence of this. On the other hand Champolovier may have been a common surname in England from the time of the Hugenots 15 & 1600's, It would be interesting to find out.
I'm not sure what you mean "always nice to find a cousin" All my uncles are long gone. My father was Charles Batham 1908 - 1967. he had brothers George and Alfred and sister Emily, all names which recur through generations. Nice to talk to you . Roy
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Aussie Roy/Jack B
It appears you two are related........ROY...if you go to one of Jack's replies (Jacoby28) and press on his name you will get the option of sending him a personal PM (a message that no-one else can see) where you can discuss the family offline)
from reply 13 of this post....written by Jack B
Aug 30 1837 Charles Boy Father Christopher William Batham of Notting Dale Kensington. Mother Mary Batham late Champlover
Father's Occupation Pig Dealer. Informant Mary Batham Notting Dale Kensington , mother of child.
Oct 23 1839 George, Boy Father William Batham. Mother Mary Batham formerly Champlover. Fathers Occupation Locksmith. Informant Mary Batham ,mother. Potteries.
Death Cert
12 Dec 1853 William Batham Male 67 years Pig Dealer Informant Mary Harrington present at death Potteries Kensington.
*the always nice to find a nephew referred to an additional name to trace.....ie when the name was spelt BAYHAAN on the census their was an element of doubt.... with the nephew's name (and a little bit of research) it proved conclusively that we was looking at the right family
Regards
Bryant
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Roy
If your paternal grandfather was born 1866 (mine was born 1878) that must make you really old ;) well Jack reckons he has the typing skills of the average 80 year old (personally I think he types like a man of much younger years :) ) .........anyway for me that puts you two in the same ball park!
this site is the best around for genealogy and it's free .........and you can have some fun participating while doing your research and helping others. Take a good look at the various topics on the site, you will be amazed at the expertise of some of these people.......
and he also thinks I have a way with words.......not quite sure what he means by that ::)
Below is a bit of information I missed first time round........neighbours of Mary Batham and her son George are..............
1861
THOMAS STREET, ST MARY ABBOTS KENSINGTON, MIDDX
MARY BATHAM HEAD (WID) 66 LAUNDRESS LONDON
GEORGE " SON 21 BRICKLAYER , MIDDX
EMMA TASH ? grandaur 10 "
JOHN HAMMOND grandson 6 "
same street in 1861
1861
THE VICTORIA BEER SHOP, THOMAS STREET, ST MARY ABBOTS KENSINGTON, MIDDX
EDWARD BATHAM HEAD 26 BRICKLAYER NOTTING HILL, MIDDX
MARY " WIFE 26 HERTS
EDWARD " SON 6 NOTTING DALE, MIDDX
MARY " DAUR 3 "
GEORGE " SON 7 MONTHS "
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Below is part of reply 13 from Jack
Census 1851
Parish Kensington Address 131 Potteries or Notting Dale.
William BATHAM Head 66 Journeyman whitesmith born St Martins
Mary '' '' Wife 56 '' St Giles
George '' '' Son 12 Assistant '' Kensington
Edward '' '' Son ? '' '' '' '' ''
On my copy Edward's age is hard to read.
On marriage Cert of Edward to Mary Harrington in 1858 his father is shown as Christopher William Batham Locksmith and Bellhanger.
On marriage Cert of Louisa Batham in 1854 resident in Potteries her father is shown as William Christopher deceased.
Kensington....Potteries and Notting Dale are the same place.
For what it's worth , in the Westminster Polltax returns for 1796, a William Batham Locksmith of Peter Street is listed. This is probably in the right area for St Giles and St Martins origins of my William and Mary.
Bryant
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Hi Bryant. What makes you think I'm old? My granddad born 1866 was 52 when my dad was born 1908. I was born 1939 which makes me 68. old but not ancient. Roy
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Aussie Roy/Jack B
It appears you two are related........ROY...if you go to one of Jack's replies (Jacoby28) and press on his name you will get the option of sending him a personal PM (a message that no-one else can see) where you can discuss the family offline)
It turns out that Jack B and I are related. he from Edward, me from George, sons of William and Mary. We are both stuck on their marriage. My resources are limited here in W.A but if anyone can find a connection to Christopher Batham = Sarah Steele married 1775, I think we both will be grateful. it's the last lead I have. Roy
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Christopher Batham = Sarah Steele
27 Aug 1785
Old Church
St Pancras
London
The only child showing to this couple is:
Frances Edward Batham
b 13 Feb 1788
chr 30 Mar 1788
St Mary
St Marylebone Rd
St Marylebone
London
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There appear to be several suitable Sarah Steele births on the IGI in the Greater London area, but I can't see a suitable Christopher Batham birth in London. May he have come from elsewhere?
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Forget that last post.
From the original image on Pallots:
Steele Sarah wid = Battham (possibly Batham) X'topher (there is something faded beside his name which may be a 'b' for bachelor)
St Marylebone
(A blue stamp says St Pancras Middx)
1785 Aug
lic
(this will married by 'licence')
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Thanks Ruskie looks like that Christopher Batham is not one of ours. He was the only Batham I could find on ancestry.com before William. So I'm still none the wiser really. The image that I got of the entry was very black and I had to put it into my photoimpressions programme and enhance it . Roy
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Batham is a fairly unusual name. Have you had a look for Bathams on the IGI?
... no, that's a lie, there are MANY on the IGI ...
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Batham is a fairly unusual name. Have you had a look for Bathams on the IGI?
... Yes Batham is not really an unusual name. I found it derives from a place name, Beetham in Westmoreland. There are hundreds in Staffs and Derby. earlist record I could find in London though was John Batham at the Westminster Assizes for theft 17 James I (i.e. 1620) . He was exonerated.
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A breakthrough of a sort. The marriage banns are now on ancestry 24 th July 1814 St Mary of Lambeth botp