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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northamptonshire => England => Northamptonshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Rosie29 on Monday 07 November 05 18:19 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
In the 1861 census my grandmother Hannah Mary Ann Gammage, aged 6, is listed as granddaughter to John and Susanna Swingler at Crick. They also have another granddaughter with them, called Ann Hillyard, aged 3.
My question is - if I know Hannah was the daughter of Mary Ann Gammage, who we presume single, how do she and Ann Hillyard come to be grandchildren of the Swinglers?
Could Mary Ann be widowed soon after marriage and was born a Swingler? OR, could the Swingler son, Thomas, have had two different girlfriends who both produced girls and his parents were good enough to take care of them?
I am stuck here. Rosie
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Hello Rosie,
I think I can account for Ann HILLYARD. IGI has her baptised in 1858 in Whilton, parents Francis and Sarah Ann.
FreeBMD has a marriage page in the Daventry District, June 1855, which includes Francis HILLYARD and Sarah Ann HERBERT.
From IGI John SWINGLER married Susanna HERBERT 1833 Crick, and Sarah Ann HERBERT was born about 1833 according to the censuses.
That might take care of one of Thomas's girlfriends :)
Regards,
John
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Hello again Rosie,
I don't know if you have Hannah in 1871, but there's an Ann SWINGLER born 1855 West Haddon. She's working as a Servant in Lubenham, Leicestershire. I can't see her in 1861.
Regards,
John
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Hi Rosie
Your post makes interesting reading. :)
As the census was taken on only one night of the year it was not unusual for grandchildren to be at the grandparents home.
There is a family of Gammage in West Haddon but the wife is named Eliza not Mary Ann.
Cheers Sandy
:)
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Hi, John,
It could be Ann Swingler as she would be 14 or so by then and might well be working as a servant in Lubenham. She was known as Ann all her life, instead of Hannah Mary Ann, and if she was brought up by the Swingler grandparents could have been known by that surname until she married George Day. Perhaps I should try harder with Swingler rather than Gammage as the mystery of her mother remains unsolved.
Thanks for the help, Rosie
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Here are some PR entries to confirm:
West Haddon:
Hannah illegitimate d of Mary Ann Gamage of West Haddon bapt 5 Mar 1856
Whilton:
Ann Maria d Francis and Sarah Ann Hilyard of Whilton bapt 8 Aug 1858
Francis Hillyard, 19, bach, labourer of Whilton, father William Hillyard labourer and
Sarah Ann Herbert, 22, spin of Crick, father John Herbert labourer
married 8 April 1855
witnesses Joseph Essen and Emma Essen.
byron
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Thank you, Byron.
So if Mary Ann was a single mother is there any information available on her parents? The Gammages seem to be few and far between.
Over the last few months since I started doing a bit of investigating (plus help from people like you) I have been surprised to find that, in the 19th century, the many children born to single mothers were accepted by the families. There seems to have been no shame or need to hide them away, which one could have expected in those days. Is this a rural attitude or would it have been the same in the towns and cities?
Rosie
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Hi Rosie
As bryon is not on at the moment and we are all here to help.
This is the only Mary noted in West Haddon on the 1841. It was not unusual to only put one 1st name.
H.O.107/800-12 PG 12 FOLIO 10
REUBEN GAMMAGE 40 AG LAB Y
PHOEBE 36 Y
SARAH 8 Y
JOHN 7 Y
MARY 5 Y
THOMAS 1 Y
In answer to your other question if a couple were engaged to be married and a child was born before the marriage therefore making it a illegitimate child often the father would support it by a bastardy bond until the marriage took place.
Cheers Sandy
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Thanks, Sandy,
I will look into that and let you know my findings.
Rosemarie
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HI Rosie
I can confirm with help from Paul that Mary Ann is the child of Reuben and Phoebe Gammage.
Listing other children as well
4/5/1834 John to Reuben & Phoebe Gammage West Haddon Labourer
6/12/1835 Mary Ann to Reuben & Phoebe Gammage West Haddon Labourer
28/5/1837 Alice to Rueben & Phoebe Gammage West Haddon Labourer
12/11/1838 Thomas to Reuben & Phoebe Gammage West Haddon Labourer
7/6/1840 Thomas to Rueben & Phoebe Gammage West Haddon Labourer
22/1/1843 Hannah to Reuben & Phoebe Gammage West Haddon Labourer
Cheers Sandy
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Thanks a lot for that, Sandy.
I wonder what Phoebe's maiden name was?
Rosie
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Here you go Rosie
From A.C. marriage index
Flore 13-Oct 1830
Reuben GAMMAGE of West Haddon to Phoebe MANN otp
Sandy
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Sandy, once again I owe you a thank you!
They would be my gggrandparents so this is quite something. I have been that far back with my Suffolk ancestors but not from Northants. Also it is a new surname to add to my rather short list.
Thank you,
Rosie
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Hi Rosie
You are welcome.
I will see if I can find Baptism for them.
Sandy
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West Haddon:
Reuben s Thomas & Mary Gamage bapt 27 Apr 1800
regards
byron
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Hi rosie/bryon
It looks as though with bryon's information that you have confirmation of your
next set of grandparents now :)
Cheers Sandy
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Well your gt gt gt grandparents ;D.
Here is some more information to add to Reuben and Phoebe's marriage.
Flore Parish Church Pg 44 No 152 after Banns. The couple sign their names with their marks.
Witnesses: George Smith and Anne Gammage they sign their names with their marks also.
Cheers Sandy
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Hi Corrine
Well your gt gt gt grandparents ;D.
Here is some more information to add to Reuben and Phoebe's marriage.
Flore Parish Church Pg 44 No 152 after Banns. The couple sign their names with their marks.
Witnesses: George Smith and Anne Gammage they sign their names with their marks also.
Cheers Sandy
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Greetings,
I have a fairly large Gammage tree including some of the detail being discussed.
Please contact me on
igammage@bigpond.net.au
Thanks and cheers, Ian