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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Staffordshire => England => Staffordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: misskim on Thursday 03 November 05 10:38 GMT (UK)

Title: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: misskim on Thursday 03 November 05 10:38 GMT (UK)
Hi there

Desperately trying to tie up this birth to a marriage in Shropshire.

Is this possible???

I have a birth entry for a WILLIAM PENN, christened on 31/5/1781, Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford.

I need to know if this is the same William PENN that married Ann BYTHEWAY on 1807 in Kinlet, Shropshire.

Was PENN a popular surname in this region.

Would appreciate any help.

Many thanks

KIM MILLER - AUSTRALIA
Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: irret on Thursday 03 November 05 11:07 GMT (UK)
Have found the birth and marriage as RE: sometimes on birth it puts parents and birth persons spouse and likewise on marriage sometimes parents I think the only way forward is to order the birth.The site I was using may be of some help to you.
http://www.familysearch.org/ :)
Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: misskim on Thursday 03 November 05 11:16 GMT (UK)
Many thanks for the info.

Will chase up.

Regards
KIM
Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: yonderpeasant on Friday 04 November 05 15:18 GMT (UK)
there is a William Penn of similar age in Kinlet in 1841 married to Ann but his age is recorded as 55 which would make it  around 1786
Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: misskim on Saturday 05 November 05 00:47 GMT (UK)
That does sound interesting.....

Is there any way you could investigate further if there were still children at home etc.

I do have the list of children.

Would really appreciate your help.

Regards
KIM MILLER
Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: yonderpeasant on Saturday 05 November 05 22:23 GMT (UK)
HO107/922/16 Kinlet
not easy to decipher
address ? house
William Penn 55 Ag Lab
Ann       do    50
Sarah   do     ?
Rebecca do     7

near to Eagle and Serpent Pub
 
Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: Tati on Sunday 06 November 05 10:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Kim,

We are PMing regarding this family, so I thought I'd post on this thread.

The family are still around in 1851  8)
HO107/1985 303 16
Kinlet, Shropshire

William Penn, head, 66, Day Lab, b. Worcestershire Bayton
Ann, wife, 61, b. Kinlet
Rebecca, dau, unm, 17, b. Kinlet

If William says the truth, you might want to search for him on the IGI.

Tanja  :)

 
Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: misskim on Sunday 06 November 05 10:43 GMT (UK)
Hi

Don't know if this is my William Penn - I could be wrong.

Family Search have William's birth around 1782 and Ann's around 1786.

Of the children listed I haven't got a Rebecca.  The last child I have was born in 1827.  He was the 11th child.

Is there a birth entry for William Penn in 1782 in Kinlet?

Regards
KIM
Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: Tati on Sunday 06 November 05 10:49 GMT (UK)
Did you get my PM with the different details? There was a birth for Rebecca 1833. I couldn't find a birth for William. I may have missed it, but the IGI has nothing I could see either. Have you found anything interesting? There are plenty of William Penn's on the IGI as you must have noticed but I definitely think these (on 1851) look very good.   

Also, I couldn't resist having a look on familysearch:

WILLIAM PENN 
Christening:  14 NOV 1784   Bayton, Worcester, England
Father:  WILLIAM PENN 
Mother:  ELIZABETH     
Batch No.:  C039821  1710 - 1812 

Matches perfectly the 1851 Census info !
I'd definitely go for this rather than the Walsall birth. What document do you base William's age on?
 
Tanja  :)
 
PS.The record on familysearch is a member-submitted record. If the person says 'about', it means he hasn't found any christening so it's just his guess, obviously.     

Also, they had a daughter Sarah born 1827.
Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: misskim on Sunday 06 November 05 10:58 GMT (UK)
Tanja

I've just noticed something - the birth for Rebecca in 1833.  Her father is William Penn and mother, Nancy.  So the William PENN I was questioning is actually the gfather - William and Anne Penn.

William Penn was born in 1810 so he was 23 when his daughter Rebecca was born.  They obviously all stayed in the same household.

Your thoughts?
Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: Tati on Sunday 06 November 05 11:03 GMT (UK)
1841 doesn't give realtionships unfortunately. However, Rebecca is down as the daughter of William and Ann in 1851, and they are too old to belong to the following generation as it seems. 
Of course, if you have a William married to a Nancy in this tree, it might be useful to investigate further.

Tanja  :) 
Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: Tati on Sunday 06 November 05 11:05 GMT (UK)
What about posting all the children you have for the couple? I'll try to find them in 1851 (unless you already have this?)

Tanja  :)
Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: Tati on Sunday 06 November 05 11:11 GMT (UK)
Oops. Just seeing William born 1810 on the 1851 census. He's in Kingswinford with a wife Eliza and a daughter Rebecca age 2 so we indeed have 2 different Rebeccas.

HO107/2036 80 18
Kingswinford, Wordsley, Staffordshire
Jack/Tuck Lane
William Penn, head, 41, Drainer of Land, b. Shropshire Kinlett
Eliza, wife, 32, b. Staffs Kingswinford
Ann, dau, 6, scholar, b. do.
Rebecca, dau, 2, scholar,  b. do.
William, son, 1, b. do.
MaryAnn Beddard, dau (=stepdaughter, probably), 13, b. do.

Tanja  :)

Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: Tati on Sunday 06 November 05 11:32 GMT (UK)
OK, I see you are referring to the Ancestral file at familysearch. Nicely enough, it shows the details I have forwarded you.
I can't see a match for certain for John. There is one John Penn age 40, labourer, born 'Shropshire', lodging in Sedgley. I'll try to find him in 1861 to see if he can belong to you (edit: Can't see a likely match in 1861).

By the way, FreeBMD has the following deaths for Cleobury Mortimer Registration District between 1851 and 1861 (they both seem to be dead by 1861 census)
Ann Penn, March 1858 6a 469
William Penn, June 1858 6a 383
Might we worth getting the certs to check if their address rings a bell and their ages at death.

Tanja  :)
 
 
Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: misskim on Sunday 06 November 05 12:28 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that Tanja.

Title: Re: WILLIAM PENN - WALSALL, 1781
Post by: yonderpeasant on Sunday 06 November 05 14:56 GMT (UK)
there are 2 Blytheway families in Kinlett in 1841 will give you them just in case they turn out to be connected to your Penn
Same ref as William Penn Salop
Page 1
? Lodge
Mary Blytheway 45 ind  Y
Sarah  do           15        Y
William do           14        Y

page 7
Upper (looks like neaton but wouldnt  guarantee it)
Thomas Blytheway 30 Ag lab  Y
Mary                        30             Y