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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: kerryb on Tuesday 01 November 05 13:06 GMT (UK)
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I have a challenge here for anyone with nothing to do!!! Ha ha I am getting very frustrated by this family and would appreciate any help anyone can give!!! Some of this information I have posted before and this is where I am currently at:
Right my gr gr grandmother - according to her marriage cert dated 13 Oct 1889 Helena Lorraine Lovekin (she married James Harmer). She was aged 22 therefore born 1867 and her father is named as John Lovekin, Labourer. The witnesses were Emily and Edwin Haffenden.
Found her record on familysearch.org as Helena Lorraine Lovekin Stanford Smith.
Found 1871, 1881 and 1891 census records for a family called Smith:
John Smith born 1832 born in Lamberhurst
Emily Smith born 1833 born Horsham
Children appear to be:
Emily born 1853 Ore (presumably she who married Edwin)
George born 1857 Rye
Mary Ann born 1860 Ashburnham
Bertha or Edith born 1863 Battle
William born 1866 Warbleton
Laura or Eleanor born 1867 Mountfield
Flora born 1870 Warbleton
Jessie born 1873 Wartling
Thomas born 1877 Mayfield
Please note this family seems to appear in the 1871 census twice with slight differences in names and father's place of birth. Both entries in parts of Punnetts Town (red herring or why they playing silly b******s?)
I have found birth certificate for Thomas, shows his mother as Emily Stanford and father as John Smith. This is the only birth certificate I have managed to trace.
To add to the confusion found marriage cert for Emily to Edwin, showing her father as Henry Lovekin!!!
Found Emily Stanford in Roughey, Horsham in 1841, 1851 and 1861 census records.
I cannot find any other certs for John and Emily's marriage, any of the other children. Have searched on ancestry.co.uk, familyhistoryonline, familysearch.org and 1837online.
If anyone can search by any other method or has any other tips for me I would be really grateful. As one of John's professions is Pedlar I am wondering if they are a gypsy family who did not get married or any children baptised, but then why was thomas the last child registered?
Kerry
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diregard first e - mail
emily lovekin was my great grandmotherand had
two children by samuel pagden my great
grandfather, he was found dead in a chair on
12 - 12 - 1876 I have his death certificate and
inquest. samuel was the son of james and
sophia pagden nee simmonds.
emily lovekin and emily smith seem to have had
children by samel pagden and edwin haffenden
there where nine children in all.
rumbolds
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Emily lovekin was my great grandmother
and emily smith was my step - grandmother.
both emily's either lived or married my
great grandfather samel pagden and
edwin haffenden there where nine children
in all
samel pagden was found dead in a chair
I have his birth, death and inquest.
he died 12 - 12 - 1876 in mayfield, sussex.
he was the son of james and sophia nee
simmonds or symonds.
rumbolds
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Hi Rumbolds
Thanks for the information. Do you know the parents of either Emily's or any more information about either of them?
Funny I have some James Simmonds in another line, shall have to check that out!
Kerry
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HELLO. KERRY
I have research on pagden, I possibly
think the two emily's samel pagden
could have lived with gypies in jarvis
brook. sussex. nr. crowbrough.
emily smith and emily lovekin had
children born in mayfield, burwash,
wartling and bodle street green
sussex.
my grandfather was william samel pagden
born in mayfield, he married frances
isabel marlow from sulhamstead abbotts,
berkshire. they married in bexhill, sussex.
on their marriage certifcate was the name
E. HAFFENDEN. could have been edwin or
emily.
I have to much information on the pagden
family to send in an e-mail. have
photograph of my grand parents, but only
copies. and servel birth, marriage and death
certificates. there is still one daughter of
my grandparents living, but the mind has
gone.
I don't know anythig about the lovekin
family.
rumbolds
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Here are Florence and Jessie in 1891:
RG12/777/107/6 - Bodle St (Back Lane), Warbleton
Florence Lovekin Head 22 Warbleton
Jessie Lovekin Sister 20 Wartling
James Lovekin Son 1 Brightling
Marriages Mar 1894 - Hailsham 2b 143
CROFT James
LOVEKIN Jessie
1901 census:
RG13/888/88/5 - Bodle St, Warbleton
James Croft Head 37 Ag Lab Brightling
Jessie Croft Wife 30 Wartling
James Croft Son 11 School Boy Brightling James Lovekin
Allace Croft Dau 9 School Girl Warbleton
Charley Croft Son 8 School Boy Warbleton
Nelly Croft Dau 6 School Girl Warbleton
William Croft Son 3 School Boy Warbleton
Edith Croft Dau 1 Warbleton
If Emily Stanton was still single in 1861, whose children are Emily, George and Mary Ann? And where are they in 1861? ???
Rambler
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Rambler
Thanks for that, very useful. Now if I order a copy of Jessie's marriage cert I wonder who her father will be??
Yes I noticed too the Emily Stanford in 1861, when I came back and reread, which adds to the problem I am having with this family.
Kerry :-\ :-\
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This is weird! All the girls marry as Lovekin....
Marriages Dec 1884 - Battle 2b 97
ATKIN Thomas
LOVEKIN Edith Bertha
Rambler
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Rambler
Another one, you are a marvel. Yes it is weird, why did they change their name. If you search on Ancestry for John Lovekin you can't find anything at all, no census returns certainly. Also if the census returns I have are correct up to 1891 they are known as Smith!!!!
Do you see my problem?
Kerry
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You've got an interesting bunch here, that's for sure!
I wonder if it's a similar situation to one of my families, where the mother registered 5 children as if married to a local solicitor, and at the same time called herself a widow (with a different name) on censuses... ::) Except that the father is apparently living with your family - mine was always at a separate address!
I'll see if I can find any trace of the 3 youngest children in 1861 - it would certainly be interesting to see who they're living with.
Rambler
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I think this is George's marriage:
Marriages Dec 1876 - Hastings 2b 36
BOORMAN Albert John
FISHER Annie Elizabeth
SMITH George
STONHAM Mary Ann M
Her name and birthplace fit 1881-1901 census returns.
Kerry!!
Look at this!
Births Sep 1867 - Battle 2b 55
RAWLINS Helena Lorrainne
Is this a coincidence?? :o :o
Rambler
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Ohh
I think I had better order the certificate and find out! It could be a complete red herring but then who knows!
Kerry :-\
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I can't see Helena Lorraine Rawlins (or any spelling variation) on any census. (There's a Helena Blanche Rawlins, but that's a different person with birth also on FreeBMD.) No death on FreeBMD - I'll leave the Beta images for you! ;D
In fact, there are hardly any Rawlins BMDs in Battle district. ???
No joy finding the first 3 kids in 1861 yet.
Rambler
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Rambler
Thanks so much for all your help. It's true what they say about a fresh set of eyes.
Kerry :) :)
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Update on the above:
Certificate arrived today for birth of Helena Lorraine Rawlins. Don't think it is mine details are:
Father - William Vinall
Mother Emily Rawlins
However this links in with a cert I ordered some time ago for a Flora Smith born 1870 father John Smith, mother Emily Rawlins.
There was a Flora on the census records born 1870.
But that doesn't explain mother's maiden name being Stanford as in Thomas's birth cert or the name being associated with Helena Lorraine.
Also got copy of marriage cert of Jessie Lovekin born 1872 to James Croft. Her father is named as William Lovekin!!!!
So Helena's father was John Lovekin, Jessie's was William Lovekin and Emily's was Henry Lovekin.
Ok so Jessie is the wrong Jessie, but one of her witnesses was Edith Bertha Atkin. See below marriage in 1884 with Thomas Atkin. I'll order cert and see what that comes up with.
Either this family were having a laugh, every time they got registered for anything or the mother 'had' a whole family of brothers, none of which I can find on census records. Perhaps she was married to John Smith and he didn't mind!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Kerry :-\ :-\
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sorry lost half track half way through reading.
dont know if this helps or not?
flora smith bapt 27th feb 1870 warbleton.parents john smith and emily.
regards
alli
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Thanks Ali
Got that one some time ago and it is about the only one I can clearly, no connection!
Kerry :)
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what are you stuck on?
if i can help as a fresh pair of eyes i will glady do so
regards
alli
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Hi Alli
Basically the short version in a nutshell.
The only real proved information is a marriage certificate dated 13 October 1889 between James Harmer and Helena Lorraine Lovekin. She was aged 22 and her father was John Lovekin, Labourer, residence Bodle Street Green, Herstmonceux, Sussex.
Witnesses Edwin and Emily Haffenden.
On familysearch.org she is called Helena Lorraine Lovekin Stanford Smith.
I cannot as yet find her birth, have had various goes. Her death certificate in 1920, Battle, Sussex has her as Ellen Lorraine Harmer aged 52 years.
This morning I searched on Ellen Smith to find a birth and did manage to find two in Battle Dec 1866 and Dec 1868 which I will order.
I have not been able to find any Lovekins in East Sussex on census records that she might have been born into. I guess if I was starting from scratch without all the supersition and red herrings that would be the starting place?
Kerry :-\ :-\